i love this! i would like to see more "normal" sized models, not "plus-sized" and not super skinny model-sized. These women are hardly plus size by fashion industry standards, they are actually normal, healthy size, which I think (being healthy) should be the standard for beauty, not super big, and not excruciatingly thin. I hope to see more things like this...

While fashion should include women of all shapes and sizes, can we try to hate a little less on skinny people? We don't have the "ideal," fetishized 36-24-34 (or whatever it is) body type either. It's rare that we find clothes that are tailored for small breasts or a small ass. I'm not saying that the ubiquity of the stick-thin model is fine or that it hasn't put insane, unwarranted pressure on women. I think the model above is gorgeous. And we should move in that direction. But also consider that some of us look a lot more like "emaciated-looking" models like Kate Moss than we do Marilyn Monroe or Betty Page or Christina Hendricks.

I totally agree with Kath, and also why does "healthy" have to be a criteria? Can sick people no longer shop? I was unaware of that. Even the morbidly obese need clothes. EVERYONE should be represented because we all want to know how our clothes are going to look on us, that's the point of models.

I have to respectfully disagree with Alibelle. The statement, " we all want to know how our clothes are going to look on us, that’s the point of models" is simply inaccurate. Most fashion models *sell* clothing.

As an "outsider" designer, I dress models occasionally. When I put my designs on a model, my intention is to capture my artistic vision. People respond to that vision, and see the clothes as something they want in their lives. My vision for the world i wish to create does not include suffering, or worse: fetishizing, or even making glamorous, unhealthy life choices, like "herion chic" did in the 90's. Nor do I think reflecting the mundane world should be a prerequisite for art.

People mimic what models do, consciously or unconsciously, because they are inspired by art and their environments. I will not spend months perfecting a garment, a statement of myself, only to send it out into the world haphazardly.

PS: By that I mean, I would not use a model that is visibly ill. I use healthy, happy looking models of every size and shape.

Further, I think someone who is seriously ill is welcome to shop, should they wish to do so, but for crying out loud, sometimes appearances aren't that high on one's priority list.

I love that a US size 10 is considered plus size.

I once heard a comedian say that they use skinny models so you'll recognize the clothes when you see them in the store -- they choose models whose figures are most similar to hangers!

Every so often, someone comes along with a model like this to make a statement. Last one I remember was Katie Green:

http://www.chicktellectual.com/content/wonderbra-redeemed-katie-green-scene

Fashion will always be about unrealistic beauty ideals, because that's what captures the eye and the imagination. Right now we are obsessed, for some reason, with skinny and youth. But we are also obsessed with perfect skin, (all fashion photos today are heavily airbrushed), various makeup oddities, and what have you. Models are the very most beautiful people, by some arbitrary standard. People want to be as beautiful as them, but if they were... they'd be models. Normalizing weight might help, but we will still make people feel insecure with bizarre, specific, unrealistic, and frankly freakish beauty ideals. (not that I don't fall into the trap)

What I think we need is better education about the power of media so we aren't so susceptible to it, not congratulating a few token people who manage to fit the unrealistic mold despite being a slightly "healthier" version of it.

Yay! I salute this designer for taking a chance in a sadly homogenized industry. Fashion should take the step where as people can recognize that its possible to be extremely chic and not teetering on the borderline between anorexia and a normal body weight.....

Why oh why would an article written by a BUST staffer state something so offensive as "Curvy (aka NORMAL)" in an article? I don't get it. What about us straight up an down women? Are we not normal? And we wonder why women are getting breast implants left and right. I look down at my non curvy, assumed not normal, body and cringe. Then I read some of the comments and become hurt. Isn't this supposed to be a safe environment? Your words are hurtful. We are not emanciated, we are not 'clothes hangers'. I completely agree that the industry should not focus on one body type, and that most models probably do have eating disorders to some extent. But to throw around these offensive terms and dehumanize your fellow woman is exactly what BUST is not supposed to stand for.

It's about time! I'm sick of plus size, skinny - none of it matters. Just be who you are and love yourself no matter what! Fashion is starting to get it. But, society needs to get it too. Size, color, none of it matters. Be real, be true and enjoy life. My attitude about it is - if you don't like the way I look, then look at something else!

I love that people always use the extreme pendulum swing argument of "morbidly obese" or "plus size" when designers make the rare decision to include women of an average body size in their shows.
Kath asked: "why does healthy have to be a criteria?" well, obviously it doesn't, as the clear standard of most designers is to use emaciated young women. Healthy is nowhere NEAR the criteria. It's an industry that actively promotes eating disorders and intentionally promotes insecurity- by providing an impossible "ideal" so we buy products to "feel better". It's called "retail therapy"... It's marketing- create the problem and provide a solution. and the models are all so young, because a person can only maintain an unhealthy body weight for so long before their hair starts to fall out, their skin dries up and fine hair starts to grow all over their body...
I know this because I am a counsellor who has been working in eating disorder treatment for the past 10 years. I get the see the real side of how these situations inevitably end up, and it's not so pretty.
I so commend designers who make the "controversial" choice to use models who represent more of the average shape. By doing this they are helping to remind us that every body is different and that women and girls should not have to kill themselves to reach some kind of fictional idea of beauty. It's a minor step, but a step nonetheless. I can't believe that it's contoversial... do we hate really hate women and ourselves so much?
I think that stuff like this keeps us discussing image and body and beauty, which keeps us FROM discussing the what's really important, like our lives, careers, passions and interests...

I love the idea of having different sized women on the runway. But really, those super-skinny models are REAL women too. And yes, some women really are just built that way, whether the rest of us would like to admit it or not. They may represent the vast minority, but a size 0 is just as much a woman as a size 12.

Pheas- that comment is largely true. Thin woman are selected for the runway, not as a beauty standard, but to have as little impact on the look as possible. So it's really the truest form of objectifying- the women don't even matter.

It should be noted, too, that a UK size 12 is like a US size 6/8, so it's even more astounding that people would consider these models too large for the runway!

PS- I've re-read the comments and seen a few that reflect insecurities about not being "curvy" and making a statement about "not being emaciated". Those are both extremes, and I doubt that any publication could include every body type in every article. The journalist would have to be a politically correct savant in order to reach that impossible goal.
Every body is different. Most- like about 98% of publications represent the "non-curvaceous" body type- AKA the "straight up and down". Be happy sister that you get so much representation... and maybe be happy for the rest of us girls who don't fall into that category for the sliver of representation we got by the choice of this designer to use TWO "average size" models in ALL OF LONDON FASHION WEEK... seriously.

I don't pay much attention to runway models because I know that they're not chosen for their accuracy in representing the vast majority of women -- they're chosen to represent the designer's vision. However, what I *do* pay attention to is how the sizes of clothing in stores have become so skewed that an "Extra Large" in most stores is somewhere around an 8 or 10. Plus-size clothing stores start at size 12, now, which I would hardly consider "plus size." Plus-size started at 18 maybe fifteen years ago, so what changed?

I try to be a strong woman and not pay attention to that sort of thing, but I can't help but feel like I'm unable to find clothes that fit anymore, and feel like I'm blimp-sized. I'm a size 12, and I'm within a healthy body mass index, so why should I feel I should become UNHEALTHY by lowering my weight to a range that's not good for my body, just so I can buy clothes at most stores?

It makes no sense to me.

Another size 0 chiming in with hurt feelings. I'm a REAL woman. Duh. All women are 'real' women, even the sluts, even the implanted, even the big, even the lipstickless and the heel-wearing. Isn't breaking down women into categories of what is and is not acceptable been the issues feminists have accused the sex obsessed media as being guilty of?

This focusing on skinny vs. big, bones vs. curves is just another way to pit women against women, much like the childfree vs. childbearing debate and the working class vs. stay at home mother issue.

Quit clawing at each other, it's just another way to keep women focusing on other women instead of real issues!

And if you claim to be a feminist of any degree, DON'T JUDGE

Hey Bryn, I didn't ask "why does healthy have to be a criteria." If you read my comment, you'll see that I want fashion to represent more body types and stop putting pressure on women to conform to any arbitrary standard of beauty. What I feel I need to speak up about is that for some of us, who are naturally very thin, models that don't embody the 36-24-34 (or 36-26-36 or whatever) "curvy" ideal sometimes represent us. And that the writer's use of language like "emaciated-looking" borders on annoying and seems a little gratuitous.

I gotta make this short as I'm hella busy working a job where I make 22% less than my male counterpart in this lousy job market.

Very weary of Bust trotting another retread of this subject in the name of feminism and equality. By reading these posts, a Bust blogger must realize by now that this does not spark a lively debate, as much as another "us vs them" in the size war.

Ladies, pick your team.

Back to work now...

And as a follow up- yes, I do think the inclusion of a wider range of sizes and types on the runway IS a step in the right direction. It's the homogenization of a certain body type that is the problem, not what form that body happens to be.

As a personal note from a teeny weeny person who is healthy and who does eat, the double standard that is applied to skinny people seems counterproductive to the idea that most size 10's are trying to promote, which is no one has a right to tell someone else what size they need to be. The throwing around of words like unhealthy, emaciated, being referred to as a stick or a coathanger....if an article popped up riddled with blob, sack of fat, that implied that the women being referenced looked that way because of their diet, or any other equally offensive descriptives of large women, there would be an outcry. And rightfully so. But why no outcry for the skinny sistas? Do you think it's not as offensive to have people assume that I am unhealthy or that I starve myself as it is for my larger lady friends to have people assume they gorge themselves or are themselves unhealthy. Ladies, of all sizes, STOP TELLING OTHER WOMEN HOW THEY NEED TO LOOK!

There are no catwalks or beauty queens in nursing homes. Be happy with what you are, and don't put too much emphasis on it, because it's definitely going to go down the drain. The lectures about inner beauty will seem much more important at 80, and we will all end up there, if we are lucky.

"Further, I think someone who is seriously ill is welcome to shop, should they wish to do so, but for crying out loud, sometimes appearances aren’t that high on one’s priority list."

Ok, I'll tell that to my friend in chemo who wants a nice wig to cover her head. Appearance is important to people, it's what we show the world. People in wheelchairs, people with missing limbs, people with AIDS, they are no exception.

How lucky are we as a society that we have the luxury to focus on things like whether or not someone likes the degree of padding we have on ourselves not whether or not we are going to be sold into sexual slavery or lose our clitorises or have acid thrown on us

What a bunch of spoiled little babies we are

I don't think that models are meant to show us how our clothes are going to look on us. I think they are meant as living mannequins, to showcase the clothes. It seems to me that it would show the talent of the designer better if she/he were able to dress a multitude of sizes well, but no one designer is going to be able to fit EVERYONE, nor should they be expected to. And to expect all shapes and sizes to be represented on the runway is unreasonable, as the possibilities are endless. I have NO boobs a big but and a small waist and I'm almost 6' tall. I am a designers nightmare, but I like clothes, and I don't mind seeing them on other people that are not my shape.

Next thing you know people will be mad that models are usually pretty.

@Liz, I respect your opinion. I think the heart of the matter is, we spend entirely too much time worrying about others and not accepting ourselves.

The average size woman currently is a size 14. I think those of us who are "average" are just getting tired of never seeing ourselves reflected in media. Things like this, and Glamour using a couple curvier models or what not, get us all excited, but also seem to fuel all the thin-hating. And there is probably resentment because thin has been the norm for so long. Why can't we all just love ourselves the way we are, and get on with it?

Here's some more on averages, which is kind of fascinating:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1427447/the_average_woman_how_close_do_you.html

As a 5"4' woman who is a size 16, this article doesn't seem to affect me. Having a UK size 12 model (or a 6/8 in US sizing as mentioned before) is just a spit in the pond. Big whoop. To me that's still relatively thin. I don't see that as some big leap towards the representation of "average" sizing. And I didn't see anyone mention height either. You rarely see modles under 5"9' on the runways. As a shortie in between average and petites I can't even buy a pair of pants that are the right length. Maybe high end designers should take a hint from the smaller in stature too.

This is a small point, but a UK 12 is actually a US 10, not a 6/8. At least it was the last time I checked! So that makes the model in question a US 10, which is still "heavy" in our current cultural view, but smaller than average in reality.
I don't think including "bigger" models in runway fashion generates anything but publicity for the designer.

There is a ***GOD(DESS)*** fashion sould be for everyone not just one group, no Baggy Raggy Annie look.....It about time. Move over Kitties here come the Tigers (Plus Size versions of our self)on the catwalk.**

Ok - I am a plus-sized woman, am I supposed to shudder? I couldn't afford a designer anything hahaha sooooo here goes. Buy what you want wear what you want - who cares about fashion runways? To me it is like watching movie stars. I know they are different than I, so what? When I buy clothes I buy them for me in the colors I like and at the price I can afford. I lived through the 'Twiggy era" shudder, now that was wrong and ladies you all should know she was starved to look like that so no thin women should be offended by this - ok? I think they use real thin women to save on costs to do with fabric and time - but hey what do I know hahaha.

PS; Even if I was in my "normal healthy size" I would be a plus sized woman size 16.

@Liz.. the author never said "curvey (AKA NORMAL)" in the article, so I'm not really sure where you are getting that from. Heck, she even put "curvy" in quotes. Also, although terms like "emaciated-looking" might not seem like the best choice, the term does mean "when an organism loses substantial amounts of much needed fat and often muscle tissue, making that organism look extremely thin. The cause of emaciation is a lack of nutrients from starvation or disease." Starvation isn't exactly the best way to achieve "healthy" body weight.

Articles like this are walking-on-eggshell type of material, and I don't think any bust staffer is promoting hate toward women of ANY sizes, just writing about a happening that DID promote a woman of a different size in an industry that starves people (yes, STARVES them, as in models DIED LAST YEAR at the same event). Come on now, pick your battles wisely...

Hi! I just wanted to put in my two cents. After reading the comments and noticing some by size 0 girls vs plus size and being "real women" I must say that I agree with them...to an extent. I myself am an average size 10, and have friends that are skinny and others that are plus sized...and all of us look healthy and beautiful within our respective sizes, because we where all naturally built this way.
To me, being a real woman is embracing the body that you were born with, and while some of these models and celebrities ARE naturally skinny, a lot of times the pressure to fit a certain mold leads them to starve themselves, which then makes them look emaciated and sick, and THAT is not cool. That said, I would personally like to see more models of normal average sizes, because lately all I see are either your typical skinny models or plus sized models but nothing in between (ironically I also have trouble finding cute clothes that fit my average size, as normal fashion stores sell tiny clothes and edgy stores for "women" sell clothes that are way too big for me).

Those women look pretty normal to me.

Thanks, reader "Liz" above. I, too, am skinny, and am sick of being held up as an example of what overweight people do not want to become because I look "emaciated," "sickly," "not normal," or whatever. I am very active and am far from unhealthy; just because I don't have extra poundage on me doesn't make me an object to denigrate.

Plus size? if you call a UK size 12 plus, which is a size 6 in the USA. In the clothing production business, size 10 is "production size," meaning, average. I'm a size 6.
Paradoxically I'm considered fat by fashionistas, and skinny ("emaciated") by so-called "normal" people. I consider myself perfectly normal, -- I eat three (or four) healthy meals a day, and exercise three times a week, and even have dessert when I feel like it, I'm not making a huge effort to be my size, just an effort not to get osteoporosis or heart disease -- and would like to see people my size, who are neither overweight nor over-skinny, in clothes in glam photos, too.

PS - I'm 44 and a size 6, but in my 20s I was a size 2 and in my 30s, a size 4 -- it was my natural body weight. I'm 5'8, and love walking everywhere and not sitting on my ass all day (even when I worked in an office for a while, I put all the printers and faxes on the other side of the room so I'd have an excuse to get up and trot over to them).

Frankly, I DON'T appreciate being called fat by fashionistas, nor emaciated by jealous women who have issues to the point of being mean to people who wear a smaller dress size than them.

*sigh* sisters, we are our own worst enemies... (sends you all a bucket of love from Down Under in Australia)

Maybe I'm naive, but I think every body is "normal" just as everyone is an individual.
And slender sisters, I think we're beautiful, but really, in terms of what is represented as the ideal figure in fashion and media, the thing we're all supposed to strive for, we have nothing to complain about. I mean boo fuckin hoo, I can't find a bra small enough...I'm so slender, I see my body type in every magazine and tv show and movie...someone tells me I should eat more...
I feel lucky that I don't have to wear a bra. That I can eat whatever I want and not much happens.
Let's stop whining and support all women, because whatever snide comments we have to endure, they are nothing compared to what our bigger sisters have to put up with.

How completely and utterly unprofessional -- and ignorant -- of his stylist and creative designer to walk out over using real women in the show.

I hope they never work in the fashion industry again.

"susanj responded:

i love this! i would like to see more “normal” sized models, not “plus-sized” and not super skinny model-sized. These women are hardly plus size by fashion industry standards, they are actually normal, healthy size, which I think (being healthy) should be the standard for beauty, not super big, and not excruciatingly thin. I hope to see more things like this…"


As a feminist, as a size 20, and as a woman who battled an eating disorder for most of her life I'm truly offended by your words. A woman who is plus size is no more likely to be unhealthy than a a "healthy size" (as you call it) woman is to be healthy. Some of us are just built larger. I'd bet my rent money on my cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood sugar being better than yours, but because I'm "super big" (once again, as you call it) you make the rash judgment that I must be pounding back bacon cheeseburgers while sitting on my fat ass all day. Beauty and health come in all shapes and sizes. You, my faux feminist nemesis, are part of what's wrong with our culture.

What, exactly, does "curvy" mean? If I say I'm a curvy gal, what impression does that give? Now what if I tell you I'm 5'6" and between 110 and 115lbs (depending on if I'm raggin or not). Does that impression change?

We place WAY too much significance on what is "normal" or "healthy." And using models who are larger than your normal model seems to me more of a publicity stunt than an attempt to change the world.

Fashion to me is all about creating the fantasy which you want to project yourself. Clothes that fit and make you feel fabulous should be the aim. Thin women exist, ok, they dominate the fashion industry as models and what we see on covers of magazines. Fashion needs to be turned on its head for once in a long time. It is obvious there is a "size 4 and unders only" club. If there was a major designer out there who had a show where nothing but women, all types of women walking the runway wearing beautiful designs existed....Now that would be something to keep your eye on. Fashion is for everyone and not just for the specific body elite. Y.S.L took this chance when introducing street with high fashion and people were shocked. But he is now a legend for showing what most thought was impossible and not acceptable and now has become one of the gods of revolution in couture.

And lastly, smaller women exist so I don't hate on you. But it's true, high fashion is about small sized women that wear the clothes because they're mean't to be "coat hangers". They're objectified to an intense degree, there is no personality and the ones who are usually are the "supermodels" of the generation. I think it sucks that models and porn stars are the two professions that women start out making more than men. When can we get the sexism out of fashion and get the creativity and art back? It sucks to see that some people on here are attacking one another as if their envious to each others sizes. The point is, there is an intense degree of one sided ideas in the fashion world and no one here can say that it's not true. There are a ton of issues that can be discussed but the media i'll say is one of the biggest culprits of this "one sided" B.S.

seriously, let all get our heads out of our asses. don't model your life after "models". There are more important things than looks. do men worry about the size and shape of male fashion models? fuck no! and honestly, smaller girls tend to be healthier, so lets just end that debate right now. I girl who is 5'7" and size 20, would be wayyyy more healthy as a size 8. cmon now. Read up on the ashkenazi jew genome a little. Sorry, but having a body fat percentage above a certain percent is never a good thing. (blood sugar, stress on heart/joints etc, aneurysm risks, heart attack, stroke) big is beautiful, but unhealthy will always be ugly (whether it be anorexic or obese)

BETH, you're an idiot, go to hell. You're buying into the media and not researching anything you're saying, and unhealthy can include more than just DEATHFATZ (Oh noz!!!) or anorexic people. It also includes people born with illnesses, the disabled, and any other number of people who you encounter everyday. Go ahead and go to the cancer ward at your local hospital and tell all of them that they're ugly.

What's always ugly is hate.

Beth wasn't saying anything about hating anyone, Alibelle and no one is talking about discriminating against Cancer patients. Their talking about the unhealthy life style choices many models who aren't naturally thin have to make. My goodness, you are so worked up you are actually name calling! Please stop attacking people. They are only opinions and not out to get you. Really, when we fight each other, like some one else also mentioned, we are not spending our energy on what is really important, like supporting each other, no matter what size, shape or condition.

Great, now how about some short girl love too?

Who's Mark Fast and why haven't we heard of him in the US? YAYAYYAYAYAY for whatever it is worth, I am a big fan already, sight unseen, just for the fact of what he did at this fashion show:-)
way to go!

Truly Awesome-I fully support representation of all body types in Fashion.
Fashion should be about art, beauty, creativity and expression for all,, instead of the exclusive, abusive, manipulative, degrading, and non-compassionate industry it has become.

Furthermore this anoexic trend comes from an industry run by predominately males, who do not, and could never live up to the "beauty" standards imposed on women.

I could probably be from another planet; but has anyone thought of completely ditching what the fashion/modeling world entails and actually find a cute dress you find at a vintage store for cheap and if its too small or too big; use that sewing machine! You have a fashion just for yourself and fits your own personal body style. I wish I could do that but I have no sewing supplies.

However, even though I have a health condition that asks me to "diet" (or rather eat with common sense, in my opinion)and exercise as much as possible; my body at 5'4" and 170 pounds, I am somewhat happy where my body is. Meditation and the simple act of actually feeling your body in the moment can do wonders for your self-image.

Hayley Morley and there are many more who are tried for such runway.
Well Elizabeth has very good point here that " this trend comes from an industry run by predominately males, who do not, and could never live up to the "beauty" standards imposed on women."

Which is very true !!

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