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Et tu, Jessica? "BUST not feminist?" Really?
Posted by: debbie
in Feminizzle
on Nov 16, 2009 
Here at BUST, we've always been supportive of other feminists. Always. We don't hold a narrow view of what feminism means, and understand that there are different ways of being feminist. We helped promote Bitch magazine in it's earliest days. We've never trashed Ms. We've always thought feministing.com was a cool and important website. Alas, our other sisters in crime are not nearly as generous.
In this weekend's New York Times, Jessica Valenti, editor of feministing.com, took the opportunity to sucker punch us in the face. When asked by the notorious Deborah Solomon, "What publications are you comparing yourself with?" Jessica answered, "There’s Ms. magazine and there’s Bitch. Bust used to be a feminist magazine, but now it’s more crafty and about making things out of yarn. I’m not a D.I.Y. feminist. I once tried knitting a scarf but threw it away after 15 minutes"
For fuck's sake, Jessica, so you don't enjoy knitting, and that makes BUST not a feminist magazine? We embrace all of those feminine crafts and skills that have long been trashed by the patriarchy, and you're jumping right onto that bandwagon as well? Don't you realize that the female-led DIY revolution (you know that the vast majority of sellers on Etsy.com are women, right? Something like 99%, I believe), is an important and positive movement?
Aside from that, sure, we publish crafting and DIY articles because we think our readership enjoys it and we feel that it's high time that these lady skills got the props they deserve. But that's just a small portion of the articles we publish in BUST - in fact, it's in the minority of what we print.
Here are some of the most recent articles in BUST that Jessica, apparantly, deems "Un-feminist":
Bjork helps woman-run investment firm in Iceland starts fund to help female-run companies
China's new Barbie Store Raises Questions
The Secret Feminist History of Home-Ec
Interview with Diablo Cody discussing - what else? - feminism
The Vagina Dialogues: Why are women altering their lady parts?
Ellen Page and Alia Shawkat discuss their latest film and, oh yeah: feminism
Smells Like Teen Spirit: Article about the challenges faced by teen feminists
We can dance if we want to: the new feminist go-go dance troupes
Angry in Pink: India's Gulabi Gang vigilante group protects village women
This is just a sampling, a smattering, if you will, of stories from the past 3 issues -- we don't put all of our articles online. True, there aren't any stories there about abortion 'n rape, but that doesn't mean we aren't a feminist magazine. We are cultural feminists over here at BUST, just like Simone de Beauvoir and so many others, who believe that it is our culture that does the most to propagate and promote sexism, and so we fight that by creating a cultural project that does the opposite; turns the world on it's head and puts women and women's interest at the center of our content, with a couple of cute boys on the side.
It's a fun, if challenging task, but there has been no greater disappointment to me, in all my years since creating BUST, than having narrow-minded feminists declare our point of view to be "not feminist," and having to defend our approach. I'd never criticize Jessica's approach to covering feminist issues. Never. But really, this kind of girl-on-girl crime? Not feminist. At all.
BUST not feminist? In the immortal words of blogger Angie Tempura, "Bitch, pleeze!"
[photo of Jessica Valenti from The New York Times]
The opinions expressed on the BUST blog are those of the authors themselves and do not necessarily reflect the position of BUST Magazine or its staff.
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written by Brittany Jerlat, November 16, 2009
As a pretty intense feminist actually currently trying to get an internship at BUST, I'm obviously pretty upset by this. That was a pretty flippant statement. I mean, I don't agree with everything BUST prints or does all the time, but that doesn't mean I love them any less. No one's perfect and I thought that's what we're trying to project here. No one's perfect and no one's the same and no one can do exactly what you want them to do. We're provoking thought and discussion here, not conformity.
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written by QueenofBows, November 16, 2009
I have no idea why crafts, knitting, and feminism cancel each other out or whatever she is trying to say. It's disappointing she doesn't see past that to all the goodness that BUST is, or what feminism looks like for many people. Sigh. BUST, keep on and don't let this get any of you fantastic ladies down!
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written by kakoivisto, November 16, 2009
Specific statements aside, how does tearing someone (or in this case, a group of someones) down or creating arbitrary strict definitions of identity terms support a feminist perspective? Shouldn't we be all about support, acceptance, love? Sorry, Jessica... I must have missed the issue of Ms. where you were given the right to decide who is a feminist and who isn't.
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written by Intern nicole!, November 16, 2009
As someone who has read Ms, Bitch, and BUST, I can honestly say that BUST has been the one magazine that I have stuck with and still read cover to cover (since 2003).
BUST has been the magazine that I most identify with and hell, I am not a crafty lady at all.
Thank you, Debbie, for addressing this rubbish and for continuing to put out a magazine I so greatly adore.
BUST has been the magazine that I most identify with and hell, I am not a crafty lady at all.
Thank you, Debbie, for addressing this rubbish and for continuing to put out a magazine I so greatly adore.
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written by JainaLewis, November 16, 2009
I was really hoping that you would address this and I think that you have done so in a productive and thoughtful manner. Bust is not only the only women's magazine I enjoy reading, but it is also the only feminist publication I enjoy reading as well. Keep up the good work and thank you for all that you do!
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written by Debbie, November 16, 2009
I'm just wondering, are Jessica's high-heeled pumps feminist? Because, I mean, high-heeled shoes hurt women.
(jk of course, i would never criticize anyone's footwear as being unfeminist. But then again, if the shoe fits...)
(jk of course, i would never criticize anyone's footwear as being unfeminist. But then again, if the shoe fits...)
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written by Amanda Stovall, November 16, 2009
Artisans are at the forefront of promoting creativity, individuality, and entrepreneurship. If women are spear heading the craft and artisan movement, what about that doesn't say feminist?
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written by Chelleshock, November 16, 2009
You know Debbie, I thought the same thing (about the pumps). I've got nothing against high heels, as someone who stands 5'1"-2" barefoot I actually love them, but if I recall correctly Feministing has done several posts railing against them. So that was the first thing that caught my eye.
I think this whole thing is obnoxious; especially because BUST is a lot of younger girls' introduction to feminism. I picked it up because it looked cool when I was 15-16 and it was one of the first things that made me start rethinking what feminism meant to me and why I had previously thought it was an outdated concept.
And as someone who loves DIY and currently makes most of her income as a seamstress, her attitude towards DIY/crafts reeks of snobbery to me. I might be being oversensitive but really - "making things out of yarn"? Could you be more dismissive? It's not like, you know, making things out of yarn (or sewing, or crafts in general) has been traditionally dismissed BECAUSE it was primarily done by women or anything. Nope.
I think this whole thing is obnoxious; especially because BUST is a lot of younger girls' introduction to feminism. I picked it up because it looked cool when I was 15-16 and it was one of the first things that made me start rethinking what feminism meant to me and why I had previously thought it was an outdated concept.
And as someone who loves DIY and currently makes most of her income as a seamstress, her attitude towards DIY/crafts reeks of snobbery to me. I might be being oversensitive but really - "making things out of yarn"? Could you be more dismissive? It's not like, you know, making things out of yarn (or sewing, or crafts in general) has been traditionally dismissed BECAUSE it was primarily done by women or anything. Nope.
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written by ecs, November 16, 2009
I didn't understand the point of this NYTimes piece at all. I am not a crafty person, as Debbie has witnessed, but BUST is one of the only positive feminist publications I know of.
Feminist writing that constantly positions us as victims and lacks acknowledgment of our power, progress and creativity will keep us forever in a subordinate place.
Feminist writing that constantly positions us as victims and lacks acknowledgment of our power, progress and creativity will keep us forever in a subordinate place.
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written by intern Amber, November 16, 2009
WTF! Jessica is obviously a narrow minded woman who probably considers a woman who "crafts" or makes things out of yarn, old fashioned and not apart of modern feminism. Well she needs to wake the hell up and realize that supporting DIY crafty women is feminist. I can't sew to save my life but if I could I'd start my own business and you know who I'd go to for support? Bust.
Jessica's verbal nonsense is pretty hurtful to all those who cherish and work hard to make this magazine... For fuck sake Debbie and Laurie are pioneers who deserve credit along side Gloria Steinem (who has been a Bust cover girl by the way). I know from working in the office that every issue is equipped an ready to do one thing: empower women.
Jessica's verbal nonsense is pretty hurtful to all those who cherish and work hard to make this magazine... For fuck sake Debbie and Laurie are pioneers who deserve credit along side Gloria Steinem (who has been a Bust cover girl by the way). I know from working in the office that every issue is equipped an ready to do one thing: empower women.
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written by lizaeckert, November 16, 2009
Don't forget all the pink on this website! Pink is evil! lol, jk (all the web updates are fabulous, BTW)
Seriously, as soon as I saw this interview I was livid (and awaiting your response). I never met a more awesome, hardcore feminist group of ladies than I did when I was at Bust. You guys have the attitude but keep it fun and that's why I love ya and why my internship was so awesome.
Shit like this is one of the reasons I barely even look at Feministing anymore. I briefly met Jessica a couple of years ago and she seemed pretty cool; methinks something since then has gone to her head.
I'm going to go make something out of yarn now, then wear it (and reap the benefits of everyone I know complimenting/coveting it).
Seriously, as soon as I saw this interview I was livid (and awaiting your response). I never met a more awesome, hardcore feminist group of ladies than I did when I was at Bust. You guys have the attitude but keep it fun and that's why I love ya and why my internship was so awesome.
Shit like this is one of the reasons I barely even look at Feministing anymore. I briefly met Jessica a couple of years ago and she seemed pretty cool; methinks something since then has gone to her head.
I'm going to go make something out of yarn now, then wear it (and reap the benefits of everyone I know complimenting/coveting it).
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written by bjorn Roche, November 16, 2009
Her statement struck me as more thoughtlessly rude than purposefully rude. She's flip and seems to equate her not being interested in something with it being not feminist. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I hope she'll have the good sense to apologize.
I think Bust is awesome for it's breadth of coverage and it certainly doesn't need to be bashed by other people fighting for the same cause.
I think Bust is awesome for it's breadth of coverage and it certainly doesn't need to be bashed by other people fighting for the same cause.
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written by Kelly McClure, November 16, 2009
Wow. I mean Jessica's whole statement is just completely out of sorts. Why would anyone say that they are not a D.I.Y. feminist? So she's a "have someone else do it for me" feminist? I think her comment was tacky. I'm all for the idea of not subscribing to societal female "norms" like knitting and baking and cleaning the house. But what if you just feel like knitting, and then baking, and then cleaning the damn house? Doesn't make you any less of a feminist, it makes you a person with hobbies. Am I right?
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written by JB22, November 16, 2009
The thing I really like about Bust is that it feels more accessible than other feminist publications. It helped me realize that there are many ways of defining feminism. It doesn't necessarily scream feminist right away, but that helped me realize that I could be a feminist without having to scream feminist and didn't have to conform to an exact idea of what a feminist should be.
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written by ValleyViolet, November 16, 2009
I've run into people in my normal life who dismiss my hobbies as "domestic", but hearing something similar coming out of a supposed feminist? That's pretty gross. Isn't one of the points of feminism that I can chose the things I do for work and the things I do for fun rather than having society dictate them to me?
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written by Jessica Valenti, November 16, 2009
Debbie (and the rest of the BUST crew) - first of all, apologies about this quote. I think BUST is a fiercely feminist magazine - it's one of the first I ever read and was formative in bringing me to feminism. This interview was hours long and edited and condensed substantially (as Solomon's interviews are famous for). I actually named BUST as one of the feminist publications I like - and later made an offhand comment about not reading it as much because it felt more crafty than anything else to me these days. (And like I said, me and crafty don't mix, sadly) But I can see with the way the interview was put together how upsetting the quote would be. That's not to absolve myself of responsibility; I should have been more mindful of my words, especially in an interview. So I hope you accept my sincerest apologies and know that I've always admired the work you do - and continue to think of you as an amazing feminist publication.
Jessica
Jessica
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written by Liza, November 16, 2009
(I should add that the vast majority of why I don't read Feministing as much is the comments, which the editors have only marginal control over)
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written by constantlyconflicted, November 16, 2009
I didn't read her quote as ragging on Bust or on knitting. I think she was just trying to say that she doesn't read the magazine because much of the content is stuff she's not interested in.
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written by tee_tuhm, November 16, 2009
Has no one read Jessica's comment posted here?! It's the third from the bottom. Silly non-Twitterers.
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written by Karen Hawkins, November 19, 2009
I have been a Bust reader since 1992 (!) and Jessica is just plain wrong. I've also spent the past 15+ yrs getting beaten up in the "professional arena" by men who think that speaking my mind makes me "hard to get along with"- not that that's stopped me from being succesful. I don't knit either, but Bust has been there for me all that time. I hope all you young ladies keep loving on Bust- if you don't know it already, it's tough out here, and we need all the love we can share- Bust is a big, bold piece of that love. Rock on with your bad selves
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written by Jennifer K, November 19, 2009
Thank you, Bust, for pointing this out and thank you, Jessica from Feministing, for responding and apologizing so quickly. As a fan of both organizations, reading this article made me feel like a child going, "Mommy, Mommy, please don't fight (with each other.) There is enough strife and tension in my world. I need you two to get a long!
Thanks again,
Jennifer
Thanks again,
Jennifer
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written by jesmsmith, November 19, 2009
Is it feminist to sell yourself to cigarette corporations?
if you ask me, ahhhhh NO. it's not.
for that, and many other reasons, i have canceled my subscription to BUST.
you want another reason?
using bitches in your insult to a feminist blog.
being heterosexist. there. i said it. queer women are always as a guest, but never actively included.
being classist. your adds make me feel like you're classist.
but you have brought me a lot of joy, and were an important influence in my feminist upbringing.
but i have to say i'm siding with feministing.com on this.
if you ask me, ahhhhh NO. it's not.
for that, and many other reasons, i have canceled my subscription to BUST.
you want another reason?
using bitches in your insult to a feminist blog.
being heterosexist. there. i said it. queer women are always as a guest, but never actively included.
being classist. your adds make me feel like you're classist.
but you have brought me a lot of joy, and were an important influence in my feminist upbringing.
but i have to say i'm siding with feministing.com on this.
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written by Kate Black, November 19, 2009
*sigh*
This is why misogynist (and classist and racist and homophobic, etc) leaders & politicians have gotten as far as they have. They work together to smite women's freedom. Activists defending us pick each other apart for not falling into neat, narrow definitions.
p.s. I also suck at knitting and only keep those needles around in case the Stupak amendment passes.
This is why misogynist (and classist and racist and homophobic, etc) leaders & politicians have gotten as far as they have. They work together to smite women's freedom. Activists defending us pick each other apart for not falling into neat, narrow definitions.
p.s. I also suck at knitting and only keep those needles around in case the Stupak amendment passes.
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written by Bibi, November 19, 2009
Living in Europe I don't have a clue who Jessica Valenti is, but it seems like a pretty cheap argument. More chocking is it's underlining sense of chauvinism, what the hell is wrong with DIY? Why does DIY make you less of a feminist? It's tiring that feminism only can be acceptable if it's a struggle.
Feminism is hardly a political ideology or an intellectual dialogue, it's just a way of life and whatever way we wish to express it is just right.
Bust's honest and wide perspective of women's life is uplifting, whether they are knitting or stripping.
Feminism is hardly a political ideology or an intellectual dialogue, it's just a way of life and whatever way we wish to express it is just right.
Bust's honest and wide perspective of women's life is uplifting, whether they are knitting or stripping.
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written by Ursula de Vries, November 19, 2009
Wow, Jessica is so old school, feminists are not just bra-burning man-haters. We are crafty; we are enjoying the beauty of handmade items. We are political; we are changing even the way feminism is defined as being about choice and 'deciding' to be crafty not because that is all that is available for artistic expression, but because we really enjoy it. We are educated; modern feminists read Bust and the blog and/or newsletters from Bust.com because it is a direct line to current femininst issues. It was on the Bust blog that I heard about windowfarms.org, offensive dolls that come with stripper poles, women that still take their husbands name even if the new married name is utterly rediculous, and proposed changes to abortion laws.
I think today's feminist has the choice to be a bra-burning hater or a lipstick crafty lesbian or a GladRag wearing suburban soccer mom or whatever we want to be, but please Jessica, stop putting your foot in your mouth slaggin' on a magazine that doesn't fit your narrow definition of feminism.
I think today's feminist has the choice to be a bra-burning hater or a lipstick crafty lesbian or a GladRag wearing suburban soccer mom or whatever we want to be, but please Jessica, stop putting your foot in your mouth slaggin' on a magazine that doesn't fit your narrow definition of feminism.
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written by Ramen for Breakfast, November 19, 2009
Don't hate! Is it positive that she's envious of Bust's approach to dealing with feminist issues? It's sweet, colorful, easy approach that makes it the go-to mag for gals (and guys--sorry!) I've hooked many a relative and friend in the last ten years by purchasing subscriptions to Bust (and Bitch.) Of all my friends (self-proclaimed feminists and not,) most have elected to continue their Bust subscriptions but not the subs to Bitch.
It's tough being on top--even your sisters will hate on you from time to time.
Love,
Jessica (the nice one)
It's tough being on top--even your sisters will hate on you from time to time.
Love,
Jessica (the nice one)
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written by Kate Black, November 19, 2009
p.p.s. I just looked at a scarf I made a few years ago. I'm actually pretty good at knitting. I just don't like it.
I'm still keeping the needles around because of Stupak and his ilk, though.
I'm still keeping the needles around because of Stupak and his ilk, though.
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written by southstudentsforchoice, November 19, 2009
Jessica was trying to be funny in the references she made to Bust, Bitch, and Ms. She was asked to compare Feministing to other publications, and she threw in a contrast that she thought would be funny, i.e. “making things out of yarn.” Maybe the editor thought they were helping in possibly cutting that sound bite shorter than it really was. The joke didn’t come off as expected, but that’s all it was, a joke, and there’s no way one can take what she said, even joking, that Bust isn’t feminist, or that it’s become somehow less of a consciousness-raising force and more like what, a crafting bee?
A bigger problem with the whole article is how it seems to reduce young feminists today to online blogs, which is like reducing third-wave feminism to a stack of zines. There’s a lot that young feminists are doing offline that has little to do with internet-driven culture, old-school stuff like work with community-based nonprofits, small businesses, etc. That might have more to do with a crafty, DIY spirit anyway than the copy, paste, and forward tendency that email and weblogs can lead one into. Magazines like Bust, Bitch, and Ms. have the format to cover stories on that in greater detail, but the feminist blogs do at least make regular reference to the same topics.
One thing that online (and offline) zines like Bust might really be able to help feminist blogs with is a how-to guide to developing more of a relationship with advertisers so they can rely less of outside services like Google Ads which often display ads which are counter to feminist values. Feministing has a relationship with BlogAds which seems to be a good service but developing direct relationships with advertisers has some obvious advantages, including bringing online ads from ventures which otherwise would not be advertising online at all. That’s one obvious difference that could be improved on in many feminist blogs, things that Bitch, Bust, and of course Ms. has been well known for in the past, socially responsible values in the advertising they solicit and accept.
A bigger problem with the whole article is how it seems to reduce young feminists today to online blogs, which is like reducing third-wave feminism to a stack of zines. There’s a lot that young feminists are doing offline that has little to do with internet-driven culture, old-school stuff like work with community-based nonprofits, small businesses, etc. That might have more to do with a crafty, DIY spirit anyway than the copy, paste, and forward tendency that email and weblogs can lead one into. Magazines like Bust, Bitch, and Ms. have the format to cover stories on that in greater detail, but the feminist blogs do at least make regular reference to the same topics.
One thing that online (and offline) zines like Bust might really be able to help feminist blogs with is a how-to guide to developing more of a relationship with advertisers so they can rely less of outside services like Google Ads which often display ads which are counter to feminist values. Feministing has a relationship with BlogAds which seems to be a good service but developing direct relationships with advertisers has some obvious advantages, including bringing online ads from ventures which otherwise would not be advertising online at all. That’s one obvious difference that could be improved on in many feminist blogs, things that Bitch, Bust, and of course Ms. has been well known for in the past, socially responsible values in the advertising they solicit and accept.
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written by May, November 19, 2009
I'd be more happy to support you in this, if you didn't use the word "bitch". I'm so over that word being used like it's not hateful.
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written by cupofjones, November 19, 2009
My first thought was this: Why didn't you guys just call Jessica instead of writing a knee-jerk piece on her disdain for BUST? (Which, come to find out, wasn't disdain at all?) Can't we sistas give each other the benefit of the doubt? Two wrongs don't make a right, and I feel like this was just a catty response to a comment that was clearly taken out of context to seem catty.
That said, I would have been upset by Ms. Valenti's comment, too, had I not spoken to her personally at the California NOW conference a year and a half ago, at which we discussed BUST and its presence as a feminist voice in the print and digital media realms. She certainly didn't have anything bad to say about it then.
Also - and this is going to sound nitpicky, but I don't really give a shit - in the spirit of good journalism, could we please spell and grammar check our entries? "Apparantly"? "It's head"? C'mon. As the daughter of two English teachers, I expect more from you ladies. (And the rest of the world, for that matter.)
That said, I would have been upset by Ms. Valenti's comment, too, had I not spoken to her personally at the California NOW conference a year and a half ago, at which we discussed BUST and its presence as a feminist voice in the print and digital media realms. She certainly didn't have anything bad to say about it then.
Also - and this is going to sound nitpicky, but I don't really give a shit - in the spirit of good journalism, could we please spell and grammar check our entries? "Apparantly"? "It's head"? C'mon. As the daughter of two English teachers, I expect more from you ladies. (And the rest of the world, for that matter.)
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written by Indy Grrrl, November 19, 2009
What an interesting situation. If she really did say those things--it saddens me to hear of a feminist devaluing crafty grrrls and their creations.
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written by southerngirlknits, November 19, 2009
Knitting and feminism are not mutually exclusive. Or hasn't Ms. Valenti been paying attention the past decade or so?
(Judgmental remarks like this are the reason I don't read Feministing much anymore.)
Now, back to my cable-knit socks, and plans to eradicate the patriarchy.
(Judgmental remarks like this are the reason I don't read Feministing much anymore.)
Now, back to my cable-knit socks, and plans to eradicate the patriarchy.
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written by Amanda Barlow, November 19, 2009
Debbie great post and totally infuriating! My lengthy comment is on my blog as it was too much for this comment space. For the record I am not crafty nor arty but I admire and respect any woman who can and I do not see that as diminishing to her Feminist "status"!
http://thepowerbombshell.blogspot.com/2009/11/feminism-and-femininity-are-not.html
http://thepowerbombshell.blogspot.com/2009/11/feminism-and-femininity-are-not.html
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written by southstudentsforchoice, November 19, 2009
IndGrrr, here's a link to the article, which was in the Sunday New York Times Magazine. It's an interesting and useful brief interview, and worth reading for reasons other this one question and response:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/magazine/15fob-q4-t.html
In case the HTML coding doesn't work you may need to copy and paste the address above into your browser.
She didn't devalue crafting either in intent or in how the phrase was edited. She was asked what publications she compared herself (meaning Feministing, which is more than Jessica, anyway) with, and you can read the rest in context at the link above. The best way to read what she said might be that Bust is more "crafty" but she's not meaning (and the quote doesn't say) that she's implying it's less feminist.
What one (not to put words in Jessica's mouth) might have additionally said is that Bust has over time become more oriented to crafting, art, and music, like Venus Zine, for example, than politics and protest, but that there's a lot of feminist culture that they share with feminist blogs, which is what the interview starts out to be about - feminist blogs. But this one paragraph is longer than the responses that are usually given in Q&As like the NYT journalist's "Questions For..." column usually includes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/magazine/15fob-q4-t.html
In case the HTML coding doesn't work you may need to copy and paste the address above into your browser.
She didn't devalue crafting either in intent or in how the phrase was edited. She was asked what publications she compared herself (meaning Feministing, which is more than Jessica, anyway) with, and you can read the rest in context at the link above. The best way to read what she said might be that Bust is more "crafty" but she's not meaning (and the quote doesn't say) that she's implying it's less feminist.
What one (not to put words in Jessica's mouth) might have additionally said is that Bust has over time become more oriented to crafting, art, and music, like Venus Zine, for example, than politics and protest, but that there's a lot of feminist culture that they share with feminist blogs, which is what the interview starts out to be about - feminist blogs. But this one paragraph is longer than the responses that are usually given in Q&As like the NYT journalist's "Questions For..." column usually includes.
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written by anotherpatricia, November 19, 2009
southstudentsforchoice write: "The best way to read what she said might be that Bust is more "crafty" but she's not meaning (and the quote doesn't say) that she's implying it's less feminist."
but she and the quote do explicitly say that Bust is less feminist. I don't know how else you can interpret "Bust used to be a feminist magazine, but now it's more crafty and about making things out of yarn."
I think it's good she apologized. I think it would be appropriate for her to post an apology on her blog, as well as here, and to write a letter to the nyt.
but she and the quote do explicitly say that Bust is less feminist. I don't know how else you can interpret "Bust used to be a feminist magazine, but now it's more crafty and about making things out of yarn."
I think it's good she apologized. I think it would be appropriate for her to post an apology on her blog, as well as here, and to write a letter to the nyt.
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written by southstudentsforchoice, November 19, 2009
anotherpatricia, that's the quote that's in contention. The words published do say that "Bust used to be a feminist magazine" but that's not the same thing as saying "Bust is no longer a feminist magazine" though the phrase can imply that's what she meant.
The misunderstanding here comes from the quote not going on to say something like how Bust it still is feminist but in different ways that don't as clearly fall into definitions of feminism as an ideology, or an "-ism". Jessica probably feels that Bust used to have more feminist content like on politics, and given the changes that Bust has gone through since it's beginnings in the early 90s it's correct to say that.
But Bust still does have new content that relates to feminist politics, and the fact that it may have less political content -- and maybe especially to Jessica to seem to have much less -- is because Bust and other feminist culture websites and magazines (like Venus Zine, for example) have become more focused on arts and culture say over the last 5-10 years because the online feminist community has grown enormously, and most of that growth has been in blogs which deal more with feminist politics, or political takes on feminist themes. The biggest change was seen after the 2004 presidential election with the growth of blogs as a political organizing tool, and many feminist blogs -- including Feminsting -- developed around that time.
Jessica will probably comment on this on her blog and say in so many words that she's sorry for any misunderstanding. From what we've read of Jessica and Bust, for that matter, it's not likely that anyone feels seriously insulted or even criticized. If anything, this is like a catfight over a ball of yarn, with no moves intending to cause any hurt, but rather to have fun and maybe even turn this into something that brings good attention to both "Jessica's blog" Feminsting and Bust.
The misunderstanding here comes from the quote not going on to say something like how Bust it still is feminist but in different ways that don't as clearly fall into definitions of feminism as an ideology, or an "-ism". Jessica probably feels that Bust used to have more feminist content like on politics, and given the changes that Bust has gone through since it's beginnings in the early 90s it's correct to say that.
But Bust still does have new content that relates to feminist politics, and the fact that it may have less political content -- and maybe especially to Jessica to seem to have much less -- is because Bust and other feminist culture websites and magazines (like Venus Zine, for example) have become more focused on arts and culture say over the last 5-10 years because the online feminist community has grown enormously, and most of that growth has been in blogs which deal more with feminist politics, or political takes on feminist themes. The biggest change was seen after the 2004 presidential election with the growth of blogs as a political organizing tool, and many feminist blogs -- including Feminsting -- developed around that time.
Jessica will probably comment on this on her blog and say in so many words that she's sorry for any misunderstanding. From what we've read of Jessica and Bust, for that matter, it's not likely that anyone feels seriously insulted or even criticized. If anything, this is like a catfight over a ball of yarn, with no moves intending to cause any hurt, but rather to have fun and maybe even turn this into something that brings good attention to both "Jessica's blog" Feminsting and Bust.
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written by issy, November 19, 2009
There are quite a lot of comments here and I didn't have time to read all of them but I'm sure those who have read Jennifer's book have pointed out the hypocrisy at play here. There is a section devoted to, and several other mentions of, Jennifer's own struggles with feminist authors and websites who have labeled HER too girly and frou-frou to be a feminist, pointing out in one example the type of shirt she wore to the white house. It's like a complete role reversal, with Jennifer playing the part of those who labeled her too girly to be a feminist and her part played by Bust.
Having gone through, and spoken out against, this EXACT thing in her very own book, she really should know better
Having gone through, and spoken out against, this EXACT thing in her very own book, she really should know better
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written by dizzymisslizzy, November 19, 2009
I have been a BUST reader for years and have considered applying for an internship many times, but, honestly, lately, I sometimes feel a little left in the cold. The pink, ditzy blond keyboard that was posted on BUST's blog a few months back was in poor taste, put downs of celebrities that don't fit into the BUST ideal (i.e. a recent tweet about Paris Hilton, or perhaps the complete disregard of the Tila Tequila abuse scandal - come on, that would be a great discussion topic, but clearly, Rihanna is more worthy of our scrutiny than Tila) as is this angry retort to Jessica. I agree with the statement that what she was quoted as saying was in poor taste, and it was great that she apologized. But seriously - this retort is nothing but catty. As another commenter stated, wouldn't it have made more sense to give Jessica a call or e-mail to clear things up before you wrote this retort?
I have loved BUST for years, but lately something's off. Why can't we love ALL women, instead of finding opportunities to tear our fellow woman down?
I have loved BUST for years, but lately something's off. Why can't we love ALL women, instead of finding opportunities to tear our fellow woman down?
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written by jamia, November 19, 2009
I was relieved to read Jessica's comment on here explaining the misunderstanding. Solidarity is so important and we should support each other. We all deserve to have our voices heard and there is room in the movement for both BUST and Feministing to make an impact on the lives of women. We need to move away from the petty and start moving forward together. I'd like to see more women of color represented in Feminist conversations on and offline, and this is something I would love to see more of in both BUST and Feministing. I appreciate the impact both are making on the world and would love to see more sistas and other women of color included. I am echoing the sentiments of some of my queer sisters who commented above. Much love to you all beautiful women!
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written by sophieoh, November 20, 2009
I agree with cupofjones. "Apparantly" a simple call to Jessica wasn't enough. 
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written by Shy Mox, November 20, 2009
Yeah this makes me a bit more iffy about subscribing to BUST. Its an awesome magazine, but it was a pretty off the cuff comment (and like Jessica said, not what she meant at all), there's no need to get so upset. Why not just ask her why before you fly off the handle? And why call her a bitch?
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written by Polli, November 20, 2009
I am a feminist, among the vast and varied population of women who embody that definition. I've been a stay-at-home-mom (whatever that means...because I certainly do not just "stay at home") I have 6 kids-my youngest is 15. I've been fulfilling my goals as an athlete, event planner, board member and community service volunteer, floral designer and artist to name a few of my endeavors over 30 years of child rearing. I even tried to learn to knit once but I didn't sit still long enough to finish my projects. (One of my sons, who is now a furniture designer, accomplished the most with yarn and needles!) My sons are daughters are all self-proclaimed feminists-2 of my sons were women's studies dual majors in college, and my daughters are strong, STRONG gals.
It has been my primary mission as a mother to teach my kids to make the most of their time here on this planet and embrace diversity among women and men.
I have found it sad and disheartening that during my many years of interacting with women in varied venues, I have been in many testy conversations with (usually very young) working moms who have felt the need to denigrate those of us who chose not to. I have heard pieces on the radio and read articles and books on the subject...trust me, I am going somewhere with this...
The point is, I would wager that Jessica is quite young and lacks the life-experience, maturity and confidence to know how to define herself without denigrating others. She will learn. Meanwhile, let's all make an effort to celebrate our differences and learn from one another, as cliche as that sounds...so true and so important. Paula
PS
As you have surely realized, I'm way out of your demographic, but I thought you would want to hear from a reader in my age group. I picked up my first issue of BUST in Northampton, MA when my daughter was at Mt Holyoke College because Susan Sarandon was on the cover. It was a striking photo of an amazing (older) woman, and I was impressed with your content. I have passed your magazine on to the talented and bright young women in my life-daughters, daughters-in-law and fiances. We all enjoy the sharp reviews; out-of-the box articles (no pun intended); relevant and timely content; and an aspect that's just naughty enough with a little bit of crafty nice.
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written by CourtneySue, November 20, 2009
Why does there seem to be this competition amongst feminists over who's the better feminist? Whatever happened to being a sisterhood?
By the way, I am and know a lot of knitters, and every one of them would qualify as a feminist.
By the way, I am and know a lot of knitters, and every one of them would qualify as a feminist.
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written by sheila shotwell, November 20, 2009
I'm thrilled to read the above letter from the woman who has been rearing children for over thirty years as well as living her own life to the fullest. I am also in that age group and I imagine there are many more of us reading BUST than the editors imagine. I have been reading BUST since the early nineties when I was working as a bookseller and have passed it on to women of all ages through the years. I also read Ms. faithfully and Bitch off & on. I find BUST celebrates all aspects of feminism, not just the political and that is why I relish every issue. It's more wholistic in every aspect. I do feel ignored as a woman over fifty and that is my only complaint.We are the modern pioneers of feminism and have much to share with our younger sisters and daughters. We obviously have similiar lifestyles and taste or we wouldn't be attracted to the magazine in the first place. I actually submitteed a piece to Bust last February (that all of my younger and same age friends loved and encouraged me to submit) and I have not heard one word back even after two reminders to the submissions dept. If they just didn't like it it would be understandable....I'm worried that my age (which was evident since it's a memoir) is the reason. I love the magazine and wish the scope would broaden to include and celebrate all women! Sheila
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written by Lisa, November 20, 2009
I discovered BUST in my college women's center, and have worshiped at its altar ever since. I've also been a long-time fan of Jessica and Feministing - but this "I'm more feminist than you" attitude has really left a bad taste in my mouth. This is one of the main reasons why we're not moving forward as drastically with feminism today - its the women who lose sight of the goals and big picture of the movement, and just want to bicker about irrelevant shit. Sisterhood is definitely powerful - now, we just have to educate Jessica as to what that means.
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written by Laurie, November 20, 2009
I'm glad that Jessica apologized, and appreciate it. However, the fact is that the NYT Magazine has a huge circulation (1.4 million readers) and a comment like this, even if taken out of context, belittles what we do, and have been doing for 16 years. Thus, we needed to post a response in a more public manner as well, which calling Jessica would not have accomplished. (Also, contrary to popular belief, not all feminists publishers and bloggers know each other personally! We've never met Jessica, so obviously would not have her phone number to call her up and chat.) I'm actually more annoyed with Deborah Solomon for editing this to cause trouble, because as everyone knows, there is nothing “sexier" than a cat fight.
I'm very happy for feministing, I'm sure the press is great for her business, but this was pretty bad for us. In any case, thank you all for your support, it means alot to us, after all, we want to keep publishing and we will continue to try and support women in all the various things they do, be it knitting, blogging, raising kids, starting businesses, etc.
I'm very happy for feministing, I'm sure the press is great for her business, but this was pretty bad for us. In any case, thank you all for your support, it means alot to us, after all, we want to keep publishing and we will continue to try and support women in all the various things they do, be it knitting, blogging, raising kids, starting businesses, etc.
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written by debbie stoller, November 20, 2009
LOL, you all are right. I'll never be able to spell the word "apparent" correctly (same goes for "exercise," that one kills me) and I think I was absent that day in school when we learned the difference between it's and its, as that one's plagued me my entire career (someone even made me a little painting to hang over my desk to remind me of the difference).
Also, in response to the commenter who said they were going to cancel having Jessica as a speaker, don't do that. You might just want to ask her about this and give her a chance to respond at your event.
I appreciate Jessica's apology, but wish it hadn't taken a blog post and tweet to get it. If she knew the quote was taken out of context and was going to make us look bad, perhaps she could have emailed us an apology on the day the article came out.
In any case, I do agree with Jessica that BUST is not a magazine about feminism--and never has been-- in the way that Ms., Bitch, and Feministing.com are. We are, instead, a magazine informed by feminism. I think of it like this: Look at some of the popular magazines aimed at the gay community, such as The Advocate, who certainly cover gay-rights issues (as we do cover feminist issues in BUST), but also create/reflect a gay culture that is to be celebrated, and that is often placed at the sidelines of mainstream culture. This is very much the same approach we take at BUST. We can be a feminist magazine without every article being about a feminist issue. But are we more "about making things out of yarn" than we are about feminism? No, we most certainly are not.
Also, in response to the commenter who said they were going to cancel having Jessica as a speaker, don't do that. You might just want to ask her about this and give her a chance to respond at your event.
I appreciate Jessica's apology, but wish it hadn't taken a blog post and tweet to get it. If she knew the quote was taken out of context and was going to make us look bad, perhaps she could have emailed us an apology on the day the article came out.
In any case, I do agree with Jessica that BUST is not a magazine about feminism--and never has been-- in the way that Ms., Bitch, and Feministing.com are. We are, instead, a magazine informed by feminism. I think of it like this: Look at some of the popular magazines aimed at the gay community, such as The Advocate, who certainly cover gay-rights issues (as we do cover feminist issues in BUST), but also create/reflect a gay culture that is to be celebrated, and that is often placed at the sidelines of mainstream culture. This is very much the same approach we take at BUST. We can be a feminist magazine without every article being about a feminist issue. But are we more "about making things out of yarn" than we are about feminism? No, we most certainly are not.
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written by Scano, November 20, 2009
Oh WTF!? Just because she couldn't knit a damn scarf she's suddenly judging a mag. So BUST is crafty with its yarn as it is with its words. Who gives a rats arse? I just read the article in this quarter's issue about teen feminists!
Go BUST or go home. Still my favorite mag. I'm still going to try and get published with them one day.
Go BUST or go home. Still my favorite mag. I'm still going to try and get published with them one day.
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written by Jessica Valenti, November 20, 2009
Thanks to all for the comments and criticism. This situation actually inspired me to write a post about the trouble with doing mainstream media as a feminist on my personal blog (as opposed to Fem).
A request to the BUST crew: It would be wonderful if you could update your post to reflect that I've responded in your comments section - I've gotten tweets and emails from women who weren't aware of the conversation going on here. (As you know, most people don't read comments, just the post) Thanks in advance for considering it.
A request to the BUST crew: It would be wonderful if you could update your post to reflect that I've responded in your comments section - I've gotten tweets and emails from women who weren't aware of the conversation going on here. (As you know, most people don't read comments, just the post) Thanks in advance for considering it.
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written by J. Carpenter, November 20, 2009
Bust: Please do not stop putting in DIY and crafty ideas in your magazine...they inspire me to be creative in ways I never thought before! Don't let comments like Jessica Valenti's change the way you run this magazine. I love you just the way you are. XOXO
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written by Scano, November 20, 2009
In response to Jessica's apology: How is saying something like "BUST used to be a feminist magazine....." taken out of context? Aren't you directly stating that it is no longer a feminist magazine? If you never said that then I would have some harsh words to say to the Times.
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written by MishMish, November 22, 2009
No! I hate when feminists fight. 
I only skimmed all the comments, but MANY PEOPLE SEEMED TO MISS THE APOLOGY AND CLARIFICATION FROM JESSICA VALENTI ABOVE.
And just looking at the quote in the context in which it was published, Jessica doesn't say Bust isn't FEMINIST, she said it's not a FEMINIST MAGAZINE. Which I interpret to mean that she thinks it's a crafty magazine with a feminist lean rather than a magazine specifically focused on feminism. Which seems pretty accurate to me. And I LOVE Bust. And I love feministing.com. And they both sometimes say things that I don't love. And that's ok. Because we are thinking individuals with different opinions who think different things are important. Which is why we're so awesome. =D
It's totally valid to call out people who hinder the cause of feminism, but all the high-heel-bashing and other irrelevant attacks are certainly not helping the cause, you know?
I only skimmed all the comments, but MANY PEOPLE SEEMED TO MISS THE APOLOGY AND CLARIFICATION FROM JESSICA VALENTI ABOVE.
And just looking at the quote in the context in which it was published, Jessica doesn't say Bust isn't FEMINIST, she said it's not a FEMINIST MAGAZINE. Which I interpret to mean that she thinks it's a crafty magazine with a feminist lean rather than a magazine specifically focused on feminism. Which seems pretty accurate to me. And I LOVE Bust. And I love feministing.com. And they both sometimes say things that I don't love. And that's ok. Because we are thinking individuals with different opinions who think different things are important. Which is why we're so awesome. =D
It's totally valid to call out people who hinder the cause of feminism, but all the high-heel-bashing and other irrelevant attacks are certainly not helping the cause, you know?
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written by ahem., November 22, 2009
seriously? You guys need to calm down a bit...pick your battles. It seems to me that you're /looking/ for a fight. In the provided quote, valenti doesn't put down the DIY part of your publication, she just simply states that DIY isn't her thing.
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written by Vaverine, November 22, 2009
This doesn't just seem catty, it seems childish. So what, another girl said something that sounded like a put down to the popular kids (mainstream media) and now you're calling all your girls to get them to hate on her? She came into the middle of our catty huddle alone and apologized instead of rallying her girls to come hate us back (as so often happens on the net) and you're STILL whining about it?
This feels stupid. BUST *isn't* ABOUT feminism - as Jessica may have implied and Debbie flat out said. What Jessica said made sense in context, she apologized for the out-of-context implication and we've even agreed with her original meaning... WHY are you still playing victim?
This feels more like the BUST ladies were embarrassed in front of the cool kids and are refusing to let it go until they drag Jessica down too. And that's not feminist, or even grown-up.
The internet is a public place and we're your audience/customers not your best-friends. Hurt feelings belong on personal blogs.
This feels stupid. BUST *isn't* ABOUT feminism - as Jessica may have implied and Debbie flat out said. What Jessica said made sense in context, she apologized for the out-of-context implication and we've even agreed with her original meaning... WHY are you still playing victim?
This feels more like the BUST ladies were embarrassed in front of the cool kids and are refusing to let it go until they drag Jessica down too. And that's not feminist, or even grown-up.
The internet is a public place and we're your audience/customers not your best-friends. Hurt feelings belong on personal blogs.
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written by Toongrrl, November 23, 2009
Feministas!!! Stop fighting!!! I was just as mad to see "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and many other articles be considered antifeminist, but I've found Ms. Archives in my college and there is a issue that says out loud that feminists don't have to agree on everything, and that's fine. Jessica Valenti has apoligized for her remarks and I refuse to see Feministing and BUST as selling out or whatever, they provide a safe haven for feminist-minded grrrls, especially those who live in towns like Lubbock (Amanda Marcotte) and Bakersfield (Me). We should be holding hands and telling Glenn Beck to seriously get a brain. Don't let us grrrrls down.
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written by jennagodis, November 26, 2009
i know i'm a little late here, but i've been debating whether or not to comment.
regardless of what Jessica said this post feels attacking in ways that were unnecessary. (and if Jessica was criticizing or putting down BUST, then this post is just hypocritical, too).it's understandable that you'd want/need to post a response, but did it have to take such a snarky & attacking tone? you could have defended yourselves without trying to take someone else down.
i get the nyt magazine and, honestly, Jessica's interview didn't affect how i feel about BUST at all; this did.
i've been subscribing to Bitch since the 90s and just recently decided to subscribe to BUST, but i'm seriously debating that now. (i've already unsubscribed from the newsletter.)
it would be nice to see some accountability for your actions/words (i.e this post) in this situation, too.
regardless of what Jessica said this post feels attacking in ways that were unnecessary. (and if Jessica was criticizing or putting down BUST, then this post is just hypocritical, too).it's understandable that you'd want/need to post a response, but did it have to take such a snarky & attacking tone? you could have defended yourselves without trying to take someone else down.
i get the nyt magazine and, honestly, Jessica's interview didn't affect how i feel about BUST at all; this did.
i've been subscribing to Bitch since the 90s and just recently decided to subscribe to BUST, but i'm seriously debating that now. (i've already unsubscribed from the newsletter.)
it would be nice to see some accountability for your actions/words (i.e this post) in this situation, too.
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written by Alison Tyler, December 03, 2009
Loved this post. I had the exact same feeling reading the interview in the NYT. I had never heard of Jessica before, but I thought her comment read like a slap. I see she's responded here—but I did not feel as if BUST was out of line or hurtful in any way in responding.
It also bothers me when someone who has been put down ("but now it's more crafty and about making things out of yarn" still reads like a huge trivialization of all that BUST is to me) is supposed to take the high road.
XXX,
Alison
It also bothers me when someone who has been put down ("but now it's more crafty and about making things out of yarn" still reads like a huge trivialization of all that BUST is to me) is supposed to take the high road.
XXX,
Alison
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written by replica bag, December 04, 2009
Bust has very good opinions on feminism and there are views are not narrow they focus on the broader outlook which is very good.
There are millions of girls & women reading Bust articles and it sure be of that much truth and realistic things that are faced by women today.
There are millions of girls & women reading Bust articles and it sure be of that much truth and realistic things that are faced by women today.
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written by issy, December 04, 2009
I am just as in favor of Jessica as I am of Bust but my beef was that Jessica had brought issue against the very type of behavior she herself engaged in in her own book, and called out to the ladies to stop pointing out this or that as feminist or not feminist, or not the right kind of feminist. My beef is don't take a stance against something only while it is personally affecting you, live what you preach
Personally I would never have heard about this issue if this article hadn't come to my attention, and I think that's what this article was about- bringing an issue some attention that the writer considered important, not COOL KIDS VS' INDIE KIDS or whatever divisive metaphor was used.
I think the fact that she DID use a mainstream outlet to air her opinion is what sparked this rebuttle, because that is the outlet that most young or inexperienced people have to get their info from. Dismissing Bust as just a craft magazine would cause those who aren't interested in crafts, like myself, to dismiss the magazine without realizing there is more to it than that.
Now that the balance has been readdressed and the feathers smoothed and the waters cleared, we can stop taking sides hopefully?
I like Jessica. I like Bust. There are things that both have done I don't like. I speak up when either does something I don't like. It isn't a tit for tat thing. It's not vengeance or trying to tear anyone down. It is simply What I Think About Things. Which is my right. Which is Jessica's right. Which is Bust's right. Both have exercised their right to their opinion. There is no need for a cheering section at this point.
Personally I would never have heard about this issue if this article hadn't come to my attention, and I think that's what this article was about- bringing an issue some attention that the writer considered important, not COOL KIDS VS' INDIE KIDS or whatever divisive metaphor was used.
I think the fact that she DID use a mainstream outlet to air her opinion is what sparked this rebuttle, because that is the outlet that most young or inexperienced people have to get their info from. Dismissing Bust as just a craft magazine would cause those who aren't interested in crafts, like myself, to dismiss the magazine without realizing there is more to it than that.
Now that the balance has been readdressed and the feathers smoothed and the waters cleared, we can stop taking sides hopefully?
I like Jessica. I like Bust. There are things that both have done I don't like. I speak up when either does something I don't like. It isn't a tit for tat thing. It's not vengeance or trying to tear anyone down. It is simply What I Think About Things. Which is my right. Which is Jessica's right. Which is Bust's right. Both have exercised their right to their opinion. There is no need for a cheering section at this point.
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written by Emsies, December 12, 2009
Well, as a subscriber I will admit I would prefer to see way LESS crafting articles. Admit it BUST, you've been getting kinda soft on the feminism. Why do the political articles get little snippets, yet "making your own shower curtain" gets a full color page to itself?
I mean, homemade popsicles and iron-on graphics are cool... but I never subscribed to BUST for that stuff. If that was the kind of writing I wanted I would have signed up for Martha Stewart's magazine instead.
I mean, homemade popsicles and iron-on graphics are cool... but I never subscribed to BUST for that stuff. If that was the kind of writing I wanted I would have signed up for Martha Stewart's magazine instead.
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written by Tisiphone, December 28, 2009
The problem is when feminists stop trying to let women do what they want to do, and require them to act like men, and thusly treat them as men treat men they feel are less masculine than is appropriate. While we should never give up the fight against patriarchy and inequality, we should also make it socially acceptable for both men and women to do traditionally female things. It should be just as acceptable and possible for me to be a soldier as a woman as it is for a man to learn to knit and be proud of the things he creates. That's the problem with equal opportunity - when the 1000lb gorilla in the room says it is unidirectional. Both genders should be working towards gender -equality-.
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written by Hobo Handbags, December 31, 2009
I agree Tisiphone. It's not a one directional approach. You have to give as much as you take or else it's just the pot calling the kettle black.
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written by replica handbags, February 16, 2010
Don't hate! Is it positive that she's envious of Bust's approach to dealing with feminist issues
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written by bobblehead, February 16, 2010
st looking at the quote in the context in which it was published, Jessica doesn't say Bust isn't FEMINIST,
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written by mbt shoes, April 12, 2010
If she really did say those things--it saddens me to hear of a feminist devaluing crafty grrrls and their creations.
There are millions of girls & women reading Bust articles and it sure be of that much truth and realistic things that are faced by women today.
There are millions of girls & women reading Bust articles and it sure be of that much truth and realistic things that are faced by women today.
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written by Acne Scar Treatment, May 02, 2010
Her statement struck me as more thoughtlessly rude than purposefully rude. She's flip and seems to equate her not being interested in something with it being not feminist. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I hope she'll have the good sense to apologize.
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written by Corporate Video , June 02, 2010
I really do not know what to say on this. Whatever had to be said has been said. Thanks for the article.
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written by bagsvc, July 23, 2010
Her statement struck me as more thoughtlessly rude than purposefully rude. She's flip and seems to equate her not being interested in something with it being not
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written by 511883-001, August 23, 2010
but there has been no greater disappointment to me, in all my years since creating BUST, than having narrow-minded feminists declare our point of view to be "not feminist," and having to defend our approach.
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written by Fake Louis Vuitton Handbags, September 26, 2010
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