thank you! i'm so glad you wrote this. i was so high on castaway jack, shark slippers and a snood reference that the crash after that AWFUL joke and scene was brutal. being a true nerd, i checked the 30rock tag on twitter and found people repeating the joke, linking to freshly made tumblr posts celebrating it, gifs, and LAUGHS. so much of the show is satire, absurdity and fun, but i couldn't find anything funny there. liz lemon being appalled does not make that ok. tina fey being a woman does not make it ok.

I loved the episode minus that joke, I agree. I think that, on a character level, Pete wasn't even thinking in those terms. However, that doesn't excuse the writers, standards and practices people, etc who let it fly.

I was a little shocked by it, but I think Liz's horrified reaction made it a little easier on me. If she had been ok with it or something I would have found it offensive.(And I admit to laughing at the snoring during "the act"). (Shame face).

umm yeah, NOT COOL AT ALL.

Thank you so much for writing about this! This is a hilarious show which I happen to love and adore. The episode started out fine and then .... The joke caught me completely off guard and I was thinking, "Did I actually just hear a rape joke on 30 Rock complete with a disturbing rape visual?!?!" I didn't find it remotely funny. I am not a rape victim myself, but regardless this joke was NOT funny. I am just left wondering how that ended up getting broadcast without being second-guessed. The worst moment for 30 Rock thus far...

I have to admit, I don't watch 30 Rock, but making a joke like that anywhere is lewd, creepy and just....AURGH! It's really foul and I'm glad you drew attention to it, because it sure as hell is not as funny as everyone thinks it is.

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I actually assumed that it was a pre-negotiated aspect of their marriage. Having seen the couple interact in previous episodes, it seemed perfectly legitimate to me that they would have pre-negotiated this arrangement for both their benefits.

Whats the point of any of them going? No self respecting Tea Party is gonna vote for a school levy anyway. That would be asking them to think of someone other than themselves and their political careers.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought this. It was the "so I didn't have to be gentle" part that really got me. The whole thing was super rape-y.

Thanks for writing this, I felt the same way.

Jesus christ, no. No, no, no, no. That is not rape. Don't equate a joke about having sex with you sleeping wife with rape. It's not, at all. You are desensitizing people to what the word actually means by throwing it around for your petty sensitivities. Is the joke crude? Yes. Is it a rape joke? No.

nonconsensual sex = rape

It's hard to give consent when unconscious. Why does anyone still need to say this - especially on a feminist website?

You have no idea if this was consented or not. Stop making assumptions and judgments about other people's lives and arrangements. There are other times for kinksters to give consent than at that exact moment. Consensual BDSM would be rather boring if you couldn't make arrangements ahead of time. Come on people.

considering liz lemon's reaction to the comment - there was a question of consent and it was fully acknowledged.

i interpreted the comment before mine as saying that it was a harmless joke about a guy having sex with his wife while she was asleep. i know there are relationships were one partner has the consent of the other, but this was never mentioned.

in fact, it seemed part of the punch line was that the wife didn't even know it was happening.

har-dee-har-har

The joke is her reaction to someone else's kinks that she doesn't want to know. Consent is never addressed, so it is proposterous for you to assume a sexually active couple into sleeping sex has NOT discussed this.

Tina Fey will be on Bravo's 'Watch what Happens: Live' with Andy Cohen Thursday @ 10. You can call in or send questions on twitter to @BravoAndy. Maybe if enough questions/comments about it are submitted he'll bring it up on air?

I think it was a bit OTT and was one of those points where you forget all the funny scenes that came before it. Maybe they were just trying to stir up a bit of controversy?

If you are a woman and you find out that your husband had sex with you while you were sleeping, and your reaction is to feel like you were raped, then you are married to the wrong man.

I was not offended by the joke. But I AM offended by the article suggesting something that happens every day between loving married couples could be compared to something so horrific, so violent, so disgusting. Kink is not the same as rape.

Shame on you, Katie, for writing this. This article cries wolf, and it's women with opinions like yours that give sleazy men the ammunition to say things like "She says it was rape, but she was probably asking for it. She makes a big deal out of everything."

As the esteemed philosopher from "Sripes," Sgt. Hulka said, "Lighten up, Francis." It's good advice to follow whenever one is overcome by an excessive amount of hyper-sensitivity.

You wrote But I think that, even in a joking tone, implying that having sex with someone who’s passed out (regardless of how close you are to them) is perfectly fine

The reference was to her being asleep, not passed out. This hardly alludes to rape.

Lame article. Agree that it trivializes the word "rape." Those of us who have been date-raped (or raped by stranger) know the difference. What's next, an article about how horrible it was that a character in a sitcom enjoyed eating a steak?

So…the married couple who have some habits you disagree with you interpret as rape and that’s not funny…but the unambiguous topic of murder, and specifically a cost/benefit analysis of human life, at the end of the clip is hilarity? I think this just pushed your buttons.

Kudos to you for calling this out! Having sex with your unconscious wife is not "beautiful" like someone else commented. As a survivor of domestic violence, one of the most violating revelations was that my husband was frequently drugging me so he could rape me repeatedly. When I'd wake up, he'd tell me how we'd "made love" when I slept. While uncomfortable with this, I thought it was just part of marriage until he admitted to using date rape drugs and sleeping pills slipped into my nightly warm milk to keep me "asleep." Disturbingly, he's not the only sick jerk that's thought of this. Instances of husbands and boyfriends using date rape drugs on significant others is on the rise. Having lived through the horror of this "innocent revelation," I certainly didn't find that joke something to laugh about.

"written by Natasha1234567, September 30, 2010
If you are a woman and you find out that your husband had sex with you while you were sleeping, and your reaction is to feel like you were raped, then you are married to the wrong man.

I was not offended by the joke. But I AM offended by the article suggesting something that happens every day between loving married couples could be compared to something so horrific, so violent, so disgusting. Kink is not the same as rape.

Shame on you, Katie, for writing this. This article cries wolf, and it's women with opinions like yours that give sleazy men the ammunition to say things like "She says it was rape, but she was probably asking for it. She makes a big deal out of everything."


As someone who actually has been the victim of rape, I wholeheartedly agree with the above statements. It disgusts me that the writer of this article would throw the word rape around like this.

Thanks for bringing this up! That "joke" was so gross and completely offensive, and i am not easily offended.It was one thing for him to say that- then they had the disgusting visuals.... not ok at all.
I hope someone from 30rock reads Bust.com, and sees this.

I'm sorry, but as a rape survivor AND kinky person, I think this is a gross over-reaction. I personally get off on "ravishment" or rape-play and my bf has my permission to have his way with me when I'm sleeping... which he doesn't take advantage of enough for my taste. This kind of nonsense is what stops people from identifying themselves as feminists.

It was a really awkward attempt at really awkward humor. It was a misfire. But it did kinda rub me the wrong way, even if it wasn't intended to portray rape. I felt, "Ew," and my skin crawled a little. The imagery didn't exactly help either. I'm glad I'm not the only one bothered by it, and I'm not the prudish type. Still a huge fan of the show, though.

Pete is supposed to an oddball character, so although the joke was definitely gross, I found that it fit within character. And I will even admit that I found it mildly funny.
If a woman on the show had made a similar joke , we wouldn't be batting an eyelash.
Of course, sex without consent is not remotely funny. However, I think an important part of being a strong woman is being able to brush off something you find inappropriate and moving on. Of course, I am not suggesting you should keep quiet if someone made a similar joke about you personally, but this is a fictional show, one written by a very funny woman at that, who I doubt intended to suggest that rape is hysterical.

It was just a joke. If you look hard enough at that show, there's something to offend everyone. Lighten up. Think of all that Tina Fey has done for modern womanhood. I was really disappointed to receive this in my email box on behalf of BUST. It's the kind of over-sensitive rant that makes me not read Bitch magazine.

...Really? Overreact much?

Pete and his wife are freaky like that. Remember when they used Liz's apartment to get caught? Liz's familiarity with them doing stuff like that was probably the reason for her disgusted reaction, in other words, it was probably more of a "TMI!" reaction than a vague realization that Pete is a rapist. Also, the visual was probably from her point of view. And by the way that joke was HILARIOUS! Also, how many of Jenna's lines are just as disturbing ( "Did I say the N-word [while everyone was listening to us on the monitor]?...Not that I would...") and by disturbing I mean HILARIOUS! This show is funny because it makes fun of how screwed up people are on a daily basis.

Let's rewind for a second.... Liz Lemon is "everything I want to be: she runs a television show, has an awesome apartment, and eats all the food she wants."

You want Liz Lemon's life? Are we watching the same show?

She may run a TV show, but no one givers her any respect -- in fact she is usually the butt of jokes in her workplace, or busy trying to assert herself or prove she's fun. Her character is dominated by stereotypical feelings of nagging dissatisfaction in life resulting from her lack of a man and child -- *cough* mike dexter *cough*. Sure she runs a show, but every episode is filled with a revelation like the fact that she only got it because the network had to create something for women (that's why her pay-stubs are a different color).

She may eat whatever she wants, but the show makes a point of making that stuff seem disgusting -- remember the sandwich in georgia? the poptart she found under the couch? The show is obviously not trying to make us admire her eating habits, they are trying to make us laugh at how gross they are.

Awesome apartment? Doesn't she live on the UWS? Well, I suppose that's a matter of taste, but I can't see eye to eye with you on that one. The UWS represents Upper middle class families, and, frankly, Liz Lemon's failed aspirations. I'll accept it if you won't give me that one, but you should visit the UWS sometime. I don't think you'd want to live there.

The fact that her last name is Lemon is no accident. I hardly think she's a role-model, and as much as I enjoy the show and think it's funny, I don't see why people think it's some kind of gold-standard of feminism just because Tina Fey can write good jokes.

liberal larry, your response is bizarre and offensive. rape can occur within marriage. non-consensual sex any time is rape. just because a woman consented to marrying a man doesn't mean she consents to sex whenever he feels like it.

i've just been reading the "you're overacting" posts, and I have to say, for me there is something about rape that just closes it off from being open to parody. Like lynchings and child abuse, it's just not open to satire in my opinion. That's not to say that we can't make fun of race and gender issues... but when we are talking about those kinds of unspeakable acts, it's offensive to joke. I also hate the use of the word rape in everyday language. Like, "that ugly dress is raping my eyes". It trivializes something horrifying.

Write a show comment on NBC.com and tell them what we think about this part of the 23rd of september 2010 episode's manuscript.

Hi!

As a lover of 30 Rock, I want to make sure you know we are many many women and men who don't think jokes about rape are funny. "Having ungentle sex" with your sleeping partner is rape. It is rape and it aint at all funny. So cut the crap, apologizing isn't wrong, and stop it from now on.

Amnesty International calls the violence against women the most severe all over the world permeating problem of our time.

Sincerely,

Sure it was a creepy comment, but he's a creepy character. What about Jenna's joke after about replacing people that have been murdered? also a little bit creepy I think. Lighten up. There's comments on this show every single week to get hung up on... or not. Its comedy

Katie, you're right rape isn't funny. But how you can turn this joke about marital sex that is totally inappropriate for anyone to make in the work place into an act of rape is a far stretch, and I agree with many people who have posted that this equation really desensitizes people to true acts of rape. One of the reasons people tune into 30 Rock are the wildly inappropriate comments and jokes that are made on the show. It seems more realistic that Liz was reacting to visualizing sex with Pete and being repelled, than by her thinking it was rape. Come on! It is fairly common for married women to wake up to active sex with their partners, and some of us enjoy it and it's part of our healthy consensual sex life, and others have to let their partners know they have boundaries and sleeping sex is one of them. Who are all of you to pass judgement about this being rape. These are characters who often make kinky sexual references on the show. If the situation was reversed and Pete said he woke up to his wife riding him like a rodeo horse, would you think that it was rape or an errotic way to wake up.

There's a difference between a creepy joke and what you've "done". I guess you should get real and take serious things seriously. And stop telling people what to do. The worst reaction to criticism is "It's just a joke". A bad joke isn't funny, and rape is certainly not funny.

I'm glad you posted this! I just left a comment on another feminist blog about how disturbed I was but didn't see anyone talking about it. I was disturbed enough by the image I might have to give up on 30 Rock altogether.

There's been some good discussion of this joke in the feminist blogs. The always-amazing Sady Doyle comprehensively destroys the argument that there was some Super Hidden Consent that somehow magically happens offscreen. I'm amazed at the lengths people will go to defend rape jokes.

http://sadydoyle.tumblr.com/post/1179742039/30-rock-rape-joke-overanalysis-feelings-share-module

To Natasha1234567:

"If you are a woman and you find out that your husband had sex with you while you were sleeping, and your reaction is to feel like you were raped, then you are married to the wrong man."

Really? Shame on YOU for assuming that every married woman should be totally fine with her husband taking advantage of her body while she sleeps. I would be completely appauled if someone I loved were to do such a thing to me, regardles of my relationship with them. Marriage is supposed to be built on trust and respect. It's a bit hard to show respect to someone if you misuse their trust in such a way.

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Sure it was a creepy comment,

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First, there is a big difference between "asleep" and "unconscious". And I think it's fucked off to assume that they did not have an understanding within their marriage. My hubby and I have an understanding that either of us are expressly granted permission to initiate sex while the other's sleeping, and we always wake up... Sleeping, I said. If I was unconscious I'd hope he'd be calling an ambulance or at minimum fetching my smelling salts!

Pete's whole persona is written to be somewhat ineffectual, and I agree that part of the joke was that she presumably didn't notice.

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how can some of you think that someone having sex while they are sleeping is not rape, and question whether or not it was consensual before the clip? this is a 30 second "joke" and the context clearly shows it is not consensual. whether or not you are married has nothing to do with it, it is NEVER ok. there may be a select few couples that agree to this but these are mainstream characters and it is not assumed. if they showed her saying ok or if he stated it after the clip then maybe this would be a different story.

also, i have been the victim of rape. just because he was my boyfriend at the time did not mean i agreed to constant consent. being in a relationship does not mean you have to have sex at any time. some comments say this article is cheapening the term "rape" but for me, reading that some people do not believe it is a form of rape, means this subject needs to be addressed more.

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