Comments for You Can Run, But You Can't Hide at http://www.bust.com , comment 1 to 21 out of 20 comments http://www.bust.com Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:22:26 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10081 don't you already have to do a test to make sure you're female before you can enter the race? like some kind of pee test? if that wasn't enough they definitely could have been more discreet about this. no one deserves this kind of humiliation. - angela Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:35:29 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10078 Again, this has been handled so poorly. However, to those who've noted that a man would never be asked to justify his stated sex, I have to point out the obvious reason that men are gender tested less often in athletics: Male physiology allows for faster sprint times. So if a person with female physiology were running as a man, she'd be at a biological disadvantage. The IAFF is testing for an "unfair advantage" not a disadvantage. Putting gender politics aside, this case does remind us of all kinds of interesting, troubling, complicated issues regarding physiological advantages, including but not limited to sex. What about someone with freakishly long arms (I'm thinking Michael Phelps) who clearly has an advantage in the pool. Or someone with unusually high VO2Max? Or someone from a country with better prenatal nutrition? etc etc etc. Has anyone read Harrison Bergeron (sp?) that Vonnegut fable of radical equality? http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html - jlg Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:50:04 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10070 And a minor correction to the article-- as Semenya clearly identifies as a woman, she can be found to be 'male' but not a man. Man and woman are thought of as gender (social) descriptions, whereas male and female are generally used to indicate biological sex. - zeraph Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:08:43 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10069 This is a embarrassing, stigmatizing test procedure and in her culture even more stigmatizing. To be stripped of her medals is absolutely inappropriate if only because of the immense suffering it would cause. Some women who do not have a chromosome "abnormality", or rather variation, do regardless have higher levels of testosterone than the average, just as some men have lower levels. The Olympics cannot control for testosterone levels. - zeraph Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:05:24 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10064 This test should have been done BEFORE the race, however, it has to be done. If 'she's' got a Y chromosome in there, she's a he..bottom line. AND you know this. - letsjustdance Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:42:41 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10060 I think it is appalling the way she is being treated she is quite obviously a woman. No man would be told he has to prove he is a man. It is so humilating for her. i support the petition David - David Pearson Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:25:58 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10044 The most appalling thing (again with that word, props to Delia) was that this was handled publicly. This particular athletics association has issued this test before. It's not terribly uncommon, again as Delia said, because sports officials can't see gender as a social construct. What is uncommon is the fact that they made the inquiry public. That's downright degrading. Whoever decided to make the inquiry public must have thought it was worth it to embarass her and all those supporting her, based on unknown accusations, in a field (athletics) already plagued by gender issues. That person made an idiotic call. - Leilani Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:49:52 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10036 It's disgusting how women are punished or scrutinized when they excel. We'd never ask a man to pull down his pants and prove it for winning. We don't even make them do it for losing! - Shonna Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:03:59 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10035 I agree with previous comments that this has been handled poorly, and that clear and predetermined standards and protocols for dealing with any questions of a competitors meeting the requirements and qualifications for an event (including gender) need to be defined and developed if not already in place. However, as a scientist, I think activists on these issues often make themselves look ignorant and open themselves for criticism by insisting that gender (which here is linguistically used interchangeably with sex) is a social construct and that, in this case, the gender the runner identifies as is the relevant factor. If she were receiving a medical treatment that required different procedures or had different side effects in the different sexes, it would not matter to her doctor or her safety what sex she IDENTIFIED as. What would matter is her actual physiology and biochemistry. That's because the expression of gender identification, roles, and mores are surely in part the product of socialization and culture but sex is a biological, biochemical, and physiological phenomenon. - shannon Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:57:49 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10034 Just for argument's sake, IF Semenya's gender testing reveals that she is XY or intersex, WHY does the IAFF get to tell her to undergo surgery and/or hormonal therapy to remove or alter what they consider to be an advantage? This same regulatory body prohibits athletes from using drugs that enhance their performance, yet they see nothing wrong with drugging an athlete to worsen that performance? I don't care if Semenya is XX/XY/XYY/intersex/whatever. She competed with the body she was BORN with, therefore she deserves ALL her achievements. And if the IAFF can't accept that, then f*ck them. - Kelle Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:49:34 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10029 Thanks Gedimin for posting some info on transgendered athletes. The more I read about this issue, the more I personally feel for Caster Semenya. This incident has ignited numerous debates about the very large and global issues of attempting to define sexes and the sexist approach to female athletes abilities (as well as numerous other debates that have sparked from this event) and while I think that dialogues need to be started about these issues, I dont think it should be done at the expense of a young female athlete. Let us not forget in all this 'scandel' and drama that Caster is a mere 18 years old. It is not fair that her massive acheivement has been subsided by all the accusations and negative attention or that her privacy has been completely assaulted. I have to say, I am also pretty grossed out by the responses and reactions of the other competing runners. one would think that as fellow female athletes, the other runners would be used to being treated secondly to male athletes and as such would refrain from publicly bombarding Caster with insults and accuations. I know sports are by nature competitive, but perhaps next time we can keep the competition on the track field and out of other people personal lives...and pants. - Maggie Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:02:43 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10023 With all of this "gender testing" in sport, I wonder where it will leave intersex and transgendered athletes. - kristieb Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:20:01 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10016 Sorry, I should have said "IAFF", not "IOC". - LydiaBrunch Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:37:38 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10015 Everything Deliza said. The *manner* in which this is being handled is appalling, and some of the other runners in the race ought to be ashamed of the comments they've been making. But if you are going to separate men's and women's athletic competitions because of biologically based differences in ability, then it makes sense to have standards about what constitutes "being male" and "being female". However, the fact that the IOC doesn't seem to have a public, defined standard of what constitutes "being female" IS a huge problem. Also, not to minimize the damage done by the original decision, but Maria José Martínez Patino's eligibility to compete as a female was reinstated in 1988. The NY Times has a good article on all this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/sports/21runner.html?scp=1&sq=caster&st=cse - LydiaBrunch Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:31:22 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10005 In regards to trans athletes, the IOC has made allowances/rules regarding Olympic competition since 2004. In much the same way they demanded physical proof from Semenya, they state the following: - Surgical anatomical changes have been completed, including external genitalia changes and gonadectomy - Legal recognition of their assigned sex has been conferred by the appropriate official authorities - Hormonal therapy appropriate for the assigned sex has been administered in a verifiable manner and for a sufficient length of time to minimise gender-related advantages in sport competitions. - Gedimin Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:24:07 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-10002 I think that this entire situation is ridiculous. Questioning the sex of an athlete after a race, after its proven that this athlete is indeed extremely talented and skilled is sexist bullshit. If there was any doubt about the sex of Caster Semenya than it should have been dealt with in a proper manner prior to the race not after the 2.45 second smoking of the other runners. To me, this whole issue implies two things: that female athletes are held to much lower standards than male ones and thus when females prove athletically able, their acheivments are automatically lessoned by some sex based scandel that deters all attention from the athletes ability and rather focuses on some stupid issue of questions. Secondly, this issue suggests that females, regardless of what occupation they are a part of, are judged based off of physical appearence. I understand the need to control athletes and make sure that they are in the appropriate category to ensure a fair game but this was handled in a disgusting and potentially wounding manner. On a side note, I would be quite interested in hearing the protocol for 'dealing' with transgendered athletes. How would the douchebags of the athletic world handle someone born one gender but who now indentifies as another? Not that I wish anyone the type of negative attention that Caster Semenya has been confronted with (although I have to give her some recognition for the way she is so bravely handling the situation) but I think that this issue is relevant given that not everyone in the world is able to starkly label themself male or female. - Maggie Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:54:58 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-9955 This situation is treading dangerous ground. With all the lower cost science they have avaiable now who is to say this sort of ultra specific weeding out (for lack of a better term) will not spread into other arenas - like affirmative action or qualification for gender specific medical procedures covered by insurance companies. It's a scary box to open. - Jennifer Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:25:49 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-9952 It shouldn't matter what it turns out she is. Fact is like any other athlete she trained to win and that she did. If there was no question about XX or XY before the race then there shouldn't be any question after the race. This is just a childish, sexist, and completely inhumane way of trying to discredit another hard working woman's accomplishments. Why is it when a woman kicks ass her sex or sexuality comes into question? - paige Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:32:57 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-9948 it is still a sexist world we live in. - deeksha Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:36:45 +0100 http://www.bust.com/blog/2009/08/25/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide.html#comment-9946 This story never fails to disgust me. She won fair and square. Even if it turns out she has a little more testosterone than the others, who the hell cares? She trained her ass off preparing for this race, and in my opinion, she earned her medals. Frankly, she makes me proud to be female. - Hannah Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:31:05 +0100