[ketto]

It's true, there's a lot of backstory to all the characters and a lot of Don's secrets were revealed last season. You can watch them online at a few different places.

I wanted so badly for Betty to be able to confront Don. I feel like Betty probably isn't able to put all the pieces that she knows together yet. I figured JFK must be coming up in the next episode or two, it was already November this week, wasn't it?

I don't really like Don's new lady. She reminds me a lot of the first girl he was seeing in season 1, but she really comes off as wanting something more serious with Don. I haven't figured her out yet...

[edie52]

Nickclick, you really should go back and watch the first 2 seasons! We know that Don was married, but it was the real Don Draper who was married to that woman, not Dick Whitman. Dick/Don sought the divorce so he could marry Betty. If that doesn't make sense to you, then you REALLY need to watch the other seasons.

I LOVED the way they ended this episode. Betty's visceral hatred for Don, and that lingering shot of her that cut at just the right moment.

I like how we don't know exactly what Betty knows- is she mad about the divorce, or has she figured everything out? I think they'll leave us hanging for the next few episodes and have it explode during the finale. JFK's assassination is coming up, too. I think that might be in the finale, as well.

[nickclick]

OK i only started watching this season..... did we already know that Don was married before? or is the audience learning this along with Betty?

i know it goes without saying, but Peggy is awesome, how she has to take the high ground AND be better than everyone else to prove her worth. Paul better be sweet to her forever and ever. and ha ha haha - he whacked off to a Chicago poster!

and i was waiting the whole episode for the vintage-clothes-porn/money shot of seeing a million gorgeous dresses at the party.... Betty's was pretty but, I wanted to see all the ladies in their finery. what was Peggy wearing for crying out loud?

[nickclick]

Does anyone else think Man Men compares to the Sopranos? Leading macho man, bored housewife, society with prescribed gender roles, closeted gay character....

[coffeebean]

Hi all, just wanted to join and say that I am loving mad men this season as well. I fully agree with ccgirl regarding her comments about liking how things are not going so swimmingly with clients at sterling cooper this season and how writers have made don less likable. Betty is really coming into her own this season and I am liking her character more than before.

I don't know, there is something about this show that just keeps my attention more when compared to other programs. I think part of it is the lack of music...has anyone else noticed this? I think it is more dramatic that way. Can't wait for next Sunday!

[candycane_girl]

I don't know, I think the writing on Mad Men has been pretty solid and if that's the method they use then it seems to be working. I like the fact that they are making Don so unlikeable this season. To me it's a way of showing how he might be viewed by the other employees at Sterling Cooper and also that his sex appeal can't just give him a free pass. And like I said before, I like the fact that a lot of their pitches this season are falling flat.

It was just a coincidence that this show started not long after I graduated from an advertising program so I think that part of my love for it stems from knowing that creative process and how difficult it can be. I especially love that even when they have a good idea that could be really successful the client shoots it down because it isn't what they wanted. As one of my old teachers would have yelled at us, "You're off strategy!!"

[girltrouble]

that's too bad. shows are so much better when the staff is a bunch of writers who know and get the people. that's one thing that made battlestar so clunky sometimes. they'd set up things for someone, the next season the person was doing something that they'd NEVER do, for the sake of the plot. :/

[candycane_girl]

dm, I read about that writer as well. Apparently Mad Men has an extremely high turnover rate for writers, but Matt Weiner was saying that she had written incredibly well and reached her full potential for that show. I found it really similar to Lorne Michaels saying that he fired Michaela Watkins from SNL because she needed a bigger vehicle for her talent.

[designermedusa]

I've had it with Don, the "you people" comment to Sal was infuriating. I hope Sal gets back somehow because it wouldn't be the same without him. Also, they must bring Joan back or I don't know if I can watch the show anymore. If they ever get rid of Peggy that would end the show for a lot of people.

I read online that one of the writers who won a Emmy got fired, the creator of the show thought her writing services were no longer needed. I'm getting a little worried that this may be the last good season for Mad Men.

[girltrouble]

dunno rose, to me, don's words to the teacher, weren't that she was just another woman, but rather, that she knew his deal from the start, that he wanted to be reckless, and not careful with her. that he was willing to risk his marriage to be with her. atleast that's what i took it to mean.

i felt sorry for sal too. esp. when don said, "you people!" when sal didn't do anything.


and kari, i agree about betty. i don't think she really cared one wit about segregation, so much as an excuse to see that guy again. i loved that carla knew she was having something with that guy right away.

[nickclick]

I looooved Peggy's "You're not so smart after all" face at Don when she left the Hilton meeting.

[candycane_girl]

I doubt that this is the last we'll see of Sal. People on this show get fired and then un-fired all the time, lol.

As for Joan, it was good to see her last week even though it was sad. The look on her face when she saw Pete was so disheartening.

I'm finding it really hard to like Don this season. Even though he has cheated in the past now it just seems more pathetic. Also, he just seems so moody at work. I understand that he's under a lot of pressure and all but it's like he's being a jerk just for the sake of it.

I also like that this season we're seeing more clients who aren't happy with the crew's work rather then client after client being blown away by Don's creative mind.

[kari]

Yes, great episode last night!

Betty - Ugh. She is SO oblivious. Just a privileged, kept white woman. When she told Bobby to watch his tone b/c "Carla works for me, not you," I wanted to slap her.

Don....Oh, Don. This woman reminds me somewhat of his mistress from the first season. Dark hair, intelligent, independent, strong willed (well, in comparison to his wife anyways). I wanted her to turn him down too, but I can also see how much will power that would have required.

I think Joan will be back. She's too much of a fan fav to go. Right?

Conrad Hilton is looney. Geez. When he said the thing about Don being "more than a son" - that was just too much.

I feel terrible for Sal. Don was so pissed off at him for not accepting Lucky Strike man's advances. I hope he comes back too, Rose. I like Sal a lot.

[roseviolet]

So much to talk about! It's interesting how the civil rights movement was sprinkled through the episode. Especially that moment during the fund raiser: a bunch of white women, appalled by the segregation in the south, completely oblivious to the segregation that still exists right in front of their faces every day. Even so, Betty's comments on civil rights ("Maybe it's not supposed to happen right now.") really shocked me.

I'm surprised that Betty cut things off with WhatsHisName so soon. Makes me wonder if that's really over or not.

I'm so disappointed in Don for sleeping with the teacher. Or rather, I'm disappointed in her for sleeping with him. I was hoping she'd be the first woman to turn him down. Sheff was especially stunned by one thing Don said: "I want you. I don't care. Doesn't that mean anything to someone like you?" What does he mean by "someone like you?" It seems clear that, to him, she's just another woman in a long line of women. Even she seems to know that, but she gives in anyway.


Sooooo ... how many episodes until Sterling Cooper shuts its doors? Or if it isn't going to close, how are they going to save themselves?

Conrad Hilton came across as SUCH an ass tonight! Calling in the middle of the night, all that talk about the moon during the presentation, etc. He says he thinks of Don like a son, so maybe he'll be back, but I don't know. I've never been quite comfortable with his appearance on the show, seeing as he's a real person and all.

Roger was so angry in this episode! I've never seen him so pissed off. And he was only in, what, 2 scenes?

I hope this is not the end of Sal. I really like him and I don't feel done with him yet. I don't want our final moment with him to be the phone booth scene in the park.

Which reminds me, I miss Joan. I keep wondering how they're going to bring her back. The actress' name is still in the opening credits, so hopefully that means they have more plans for her in the future.

[candycane_girl]

I find it really incredible the number of people who find that scene with Don and Bobbie to be "really hot". I didn't find it hot at all. Even if I had a sexual relationship with a man, if he suddenly stuck his hand up my skirt to prove that he had control over me I would feel completely violated.

As for the scene with Pete, I interpreted it as though they had slept together but that the au pair was crying because a) she had cheated on her boyfriend and b ) Pete totally used her. I feel like I need to go back and watch it again.

[girltrouble]

it really boggles my mind that people couldn't see that was clearly rape. i know it's not the explicit, clothes tearing, black eye version we usually see in film and video, but that is indisputable. it's kind of strange, but it's as if the show is exploring not just gender roles, but the variations of violation. from don with the comedian's wife to joan to the au pair.

[designermedusa]

I used to like Pete, but now I am disgusted with him. I know it was the 60's, and possibly a man of his time would not understand it was rape, but it doesn't excuse it.

[ketto]

Well, I guess it was more implied. It wasn't as out there as Joan's rape was. Apparently there's been a lot of debate on whether or not what Pete did was rape, but I felt it clearly was. There's a really interesting discussion here: http://www.feministing.com/archives/018168.html#more

"If people had trouble accepting that Joan was raped, though, I'm sure there will be even more debate about whether Pete raped Gertrude. He did, of course. The power dynamics and the fact she did not consent were made obvious. There was an added layer of complexity here, though, in that we followed the rapist throughout the episode. We saw Pete's experience of the build up to and aftermath of the rape.We saw that he thought he could buy Gertrude's sexual submission. We saw that his guilt was about cheating on his wife, not raping someone. We were admitted into the mind of a male rapist who does not understand what he is doing and the intense wrongness of his actions. A deeply disturbing viewing experience because it gave a bit of a glimpse into the mind of someone who does not understand consent. People who deny this rape are in some way identifying with Pete. This is a potentially teachable moment, an opportunity to point on one person's thought process as they plan, carry out, and react to raping someone. Coupled with an explanation of consent this can give people a really personal understanding of how they need to center consent in their approach to sex. Never before have I thought about how it could be valuable to show a rapist's experience. Kudos to the Mad Men writers for their bravery in actively making one of show's main characters a rapist and not excusing Pete's actions, something that happens far too often in popular entertainment."


People had a lot to say about it in the comments section too.

[nickclick]

holy crap, my attention must have been elsewhere during that scene... i was wondering why the neighbor said she was crying.

[ketto]

I was mad at him for raping the au pair.