[girlygirlgag]

I didn't know Wombat ad Whammy Bar were the same person. That makes sense.

I also have major issues with another poster, but that could all just be the fact that I am blind to the patriarchy and need enlightenment.

[yuefie]

Sorry to continue the ugliness but being one of the principal participants in the initial ugliness, I feel I should address some of what has been said. First off I agree that somewhere else is better suited for these sorts of blow outs. If it's a unanimous decision that those types of heated discussions are moved here to CF, then I am all for it. An argument thread? Even better. Just please don't tell me I can't defend myself or others without incurring the wrath of all the people who just want to just keep the peace and play nice at all costs. I myself have been taken to task for that sort of reasoning. There can not and will not always be peace. But taking it somewhere more appropriate, why certainly.

I understand why there is bristling at the posts being in the MAS thread. But honestly, where should it have been taken? There was no clear cut choice. She attacked me and my choice of caregiving, publicly, in the MAS thread, as if it is a bad thing. So because I am a woman who has made the decision to care for ailing family members, that makes me a miserable person? How is that not blatant misogyny? What right does she have, does she know me? No, she just goes off half cocked. Was I supposed to just let it go? Riiight. And she only pounced on this aspect of who I am after I stood up for other BUSTies on the receiving end of her crap. Just a few weeks ago she sent me a private message telling me how wonderful she thinks I am for what I do. But my, how we change our tune when someone calls us out on our BS.

So what it boils down to is she is a huge bully and someone needs to stand up to her. I know we can't make her go away, but if more people are aware of her bullying tactics and see how she plays dirty by attacking anything she perceives as a weakness or a fault, they will see that SHE is the problem. It needed to be addressed publicly, just as she's dished it out to others publicly. It's only fair that she got it right back, PUBLICLY. People can watch her reactions and make their own judgments. And judging by the volume of PM's I've received, many have. She has apparently stepped on a lot of toes around here. Most just do not want to jump in to the fray, which I greatly respect. There seems to be a lot of people who were unaware that wombat and whammy_bar are one in the same. Many remember her freak outs under the latter user name. I am not and was not trying to turn people against her, just present the facts so that when she starts her bullying with other BUSTies, as she has proven time and time again she will do, people can make informed decisions on how to deal with her.

Generally when it concerns a bully something inside me snaps. It's why I stepped in to a few messes around this board that have concerned bullies. I've also tried to play peacemaker and pissed off some beloved BUSTies by doing so. There is no win-win in these situations, but obviously minimizing the fall out from contaminating other threads is a very wise decision. And for the record, I don't think it's right that anyone who stands up for others around here should be vilified and called a mean girl. Mandi is far from a mean girl. If I am labeled that, then so be it. Because after being called out for trying to keep the peace and called out for arguing, I am at a loss. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[girlygirlgag]

ready to rumble?

bustie smack down?

care to step to the outside thread and say that?

DON'T MAKE ME TAKE MY EARRINGS OFF!

Or: THE OCTAGON!

[falljackets]

rv, i like that title.

it would be very appropriate...

[tesao]

ready to rumble?

bustie smack down?

care to step to the outside thread and say that?

[roseviolet]

Any thread title ideas? I tend to be pretty crap about that sort of thing. My only idea is "Taking It Outside: The Argument Thread".

[tesao]

i think that having a separate thread for arguments is a good idea.

i'm not sure at all that we can make sure that the people who want to argue or flame others will stick to that thread, and only that thread. those of us who want to avoid the conflict will go and post there. others who may not care about netiquette or the bust community may not.

i'm generally in the ignore category, until it becomes a little too personal and the epithets being thrown around (about me) are seriously out of line. what i do then is respond. once. period. and then i try to go back to posting about whatever is on topic.

there is certainly no harm in trying.

[falljackets]

i am totally with rv here.

i don't think i'm in the minority when i say that i've avoided stepping in to arguements in the past out of respect for the thread; i didn't want to continue the various derailments. i'm not talking about debates... debates in threads are good. they should be there. but when things get personal or veer too far off from the actual thread topic, a lot of long-timers just wind up avoiding the thread altogether, not because we all want to play nicey-nicey, but we just feel like it's pointless and it's disrespectful to the folks in the thread that are actually trying to have a conversation.

i've often wondered why we had a flamewar thread to fuck around with fake arguments, but not a real thread dedicated to actual arguing. sure the biggest offenders might not actually take advantage of the thread, but it would cut down on the side arguements of "does this arguement belong here? shouldn't it go to PM? is there a better place for this? blah blah blah". it'll be easy - just take it to the arguement thread and that's that.

and yeah, there will be a few busties constantly in the thread, but like rv said, who cares? that's the choice they can make.

i don't think we should necessarily spend a lot of time talking about why arguements and flare ups are happening so much. it's just the way that it is. we shouldn't all walk around with blinders, bunny is right. and it sucks when you see one of your friends coming under fire from one or another member. it makes you want to come to their aid, and so what on that too! that's what you would do irl so why not do it here?

argh, i'm rambling, but i love so many of the ladies here and i would hate for you to go away. HAAATE it; even if i'm not in your regular "circles", i'm reading your posts and i would miss them.

basically, i'm saying if RV needs a second to start a thread, i'm stepping up to give it to her.

[lex]

i have to agree with roseviolet, the addition of the ignore feature is fantastic! i completely understand wanting to really tell someone off when they are completely out of line, but long heated exchanges tend to become disruptive. any message boards that i'm on with active moderators will always just nip those arguments in the bud, anyway. either by closing the thread or posting warnings for the individuals to stick to the topic and stop arguing.

that said, since that isn't an option i can understand the merit in having an argument thread. not especially positive or feel good, but at least it will be contained and those who wish to be involved can be.

anyway, just my (old poster who's been gone for a long time) 2 cents..

[girlygirlgag]

I know there are some BUSTIES who have hedge hog love.

If anyone is in the Southern Ohio, Norhtern KY area, I found one for adoption on Craigs List.

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/pet/273685696.html

[roseviolet]

Now now, Bunny, I'm not saying that we should tolerate bullies. I'm merely noting that, in the past, when discussions have turned heated, part of the argument has been about whether the argument should continue in its original thread or be moved to PM. Often people request that the argument be moved elsewhere, but where? Some suggest The Community Forum, but I've noticed that a lot of people are resistant to that. So I'm merely suggesting an alternative thread. We have specific threads designed to discuss all sorts of individual topics. Why not this? I'm not trying to insult anyone. I just suggesting an idea that would respect the community & the majority of members who chose not to engage in the more heated, personal in-fighting.

ETA: On the subject of tolerating bullies, we must remember that there is no way to kick anyone off of this site. Once a member, always a member. But at least we have the Ignore feature. It's one way of taking bullies off of one's personal radar, at least!

[bunnyb]

well perhaps I should take my immature, disrespectful self somewhere they don't tolerate bullies.

[roseviolet]

There is a big difference betwen "playing nicey nicey" and acting in a mature, respectful manner. I tend to think my behavior falls in the latter category. I am not saying that people should just shut up and try to get along all the time. It's perfectly natural for people to fight sometimes. And like you, I think it'd be good to try to steer the uglier arguments into one place whenever possible. Yes, there will be some people who may resist it, but I think it's worth a try.

This is not about trying to hide away the arguments. Rather, it's about respecting the majority of the community who chose not to engage in these arguments. And so what if certain people spend more time in the argument thread than others? Don't we all create our own reputation, no matter where we post?

Pixie, I think your suggestion is a fine one, but I'm afraid that the Lounge Lady is in no hurry to adopt any of the suggestions we've thrown her way. I'm sure there may be a perfectly legitimate reason for this, but whatever that reason may be, I feel that your wishes are more likely to be granted by throwing coins in a fountain.

[bunnyb]

oh fuck it. why should yuefie, mandolyn and I feel the need to take a hiatus? we're in the bloody right and there are many of you who agree with us by PM.

nobody puts bunny in the corner, the argument should carry on here or you can all keep your blinkers on and lose some of the loveliest of BUSTies and let the bully win, at this moment, I could care less.

[mandolyn]

once upon a time, things were hashed out here, in CF.

but, you know, now i feel like shit, that i'm one of the mean girls contributing to the need of "FIGHT THREAD". so i'm back to biting my tongue. or taking a hiatus. fuggit. i don't need this aggravation.

[pixiedust]

What I wish we had...since we don't have active mods on here...other message boards have a reputation system...I've seen where if someone gets enough negative reputation from enough unique users, they lose the ability to post for a certain length of time. It just really sucks that people can pretty much say whatever they want on here about anyone without fear of any kind of retribution. Some people seem to thrive on their own unpopularity!

[bunnyb]

thanks for editing that pixie, I'm starting to get a persecution complex here!

what about here? it's not used or checked that much and it is the community forum so why not be used for community issues?

[pixiedust]

The only problem with that Rose, is that the people who need to take things to another thread, don't feel they are doing anything and probably would not go. If they were that amiable, they would just keep their mouths shut in the first place and not post the sort of inflamatory stuff that has been floating around here lately. I think some people just need to hear themselves talk..and keeping a "debate/fight" going gives them excuse after excuse to keep posting.

Eta:After rereading...I wanted to clarify, I am not speaking of the kvetchies.

[bunnyb]

Rose, you're right; we need another thread (I appreciate that the mutual admiration thread is not the best place to share our mutual abhorrence) to talk through things. However, in this particular instance I'm not sure a thread to argue would do any good whatsoever.

In the past, people have always said to move it to another thread and nowhere has been suitable so we need somewhere that is. My concern though is that some are going to be labelled as fighters as they are always involved. I can understand why some would prefer not to become involved as BUST is a safe haven, but it's defeating the purpose of this particular argument: some of us are trying to bust bullying, why should we be hidden away? I'm sorry if trying to protect those BUSTies I care about is something that others don't want to read and I should STFU about, it saddens me if that's the case. The lounge should not be somewhere where we go about with blinkers on and play nicey nicey all the time - how many people and how many times does that have to be said?

[roseviolet]

So ... I hate to say this, but I'm thinking that we may need a thread dedicating to nothing but hasseling out arguments. Too often, disagreements within threads turn ugly & totally derail a thread - often even carrying over into other, unrelated threads. The people involved in the argument are often told to take it elsewhere, but where? What about when they cannot or refuse to take the discussion to PM? What about when the argument involves so many individuals that they choose to keep the fighting public?

The Busting Trolls thread isn't the right place because it implies that at least one person in the argument is a troll, whereas most of these fights happen between established members of the community. The Flamewar thread isn't the right place because that's for joke fighting, not the real thing. So I propose that we have a thread specifically for these arguments. Because quite frankly, I would like to know how to avoid these fights & I know I'm not the only one. People certainly have a right to fight if they feel so inclined, but out of respect for the rest of the community, these thread-derailing fights could be moved to the fight thread. There needs to be another option. What does everyone think?