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> Pardon me (I'm Canadian)
ChingusKhan
post Dec 7 2009, 01:34 PM
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QUOTE(koffeewitch @ Dec 7 2009, 08:35 AM) *
Hmmm. Here everyone has to go through a background check and register, but a license to carry is a separate issue. Are there laws that say the license is for unconcealed guns only or is the concealed vs. unconcealed issue more about the U.S. (and our enormous homicide rates)?


No idea how - or even if - you can get a license for a concealed weapon here. I think you'd have to be in law enforcement or some such.

Our firearms licensing procedures are pretty stringent and the culture here around firearms is very different than that down south. Just not part of the mythology. In fact, the myth here is quite the opposite of the "Wild West": During the Yukon Gold Rush of the 1880's, the story goes, American prospectors were meant at the border by Colonel Sam Steele, of the Northwest Mounted Police, and told to turn their guns in. (Google Sam Steele. He was pretty amazing figure.)

Not to say there isn't a problem, in a relative sense, with gun violence and illegal firearms here. There is. My understanding is that is fairly easy to purchase illegal weapons on the "black market". That being said, I've also been told that the weapons in question are far more expensive here than they are in the States.

I suppose the difference is that there are far, far less guns here in Canada than in the US and - this may be more important - firearms don't have the same place in the culture here as they do in the United States.
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koffeewitch
post Dec 7 2009, 11:35 AM
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Hmmm. Here everyone has to go through a background check and register, but a license to carry is a separate issue. Are there laws that say the license is for unconcealed guns only or is the concealed vs. unconcealed issue more about the U.S. (and our enormous homicide rates)?


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ChingusKhan
post Dec 7 2009, 11:22 AM
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QUOTE(koffeewitch @ Dec 7 2009, 06:09 AM) *
What about bringing your weapon home from the place of purchase; how does that work? I'm GUESSING that if you have a receipt with the current date to prove you are transporting your newly-bought gun to your home and you are carrying the weapon unloaded and in the trunk, it is okay?? Just curious.



You need the license to purchase the weapon. The procedure here: is 1.) Apply for the license. And there are different licenses and procedures, depending on the weapon. It's a different license and a different procedure for a long gun versus a hand gun. 2.) Once - and if - your license is approved, you get the license and then you can purchase the weapon. 3.) You have to produce the license when you purchase the weapon. And you have to have the license on you when you're transporting the weapon home.

You can't buy a weapon - legally - without a license and you can't - legally - transport a weapon without the license on your person.
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koffeewitch
post Dec 7 2009, 09:09 AM
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QUOTE(ChingusKhan @ Dec 6 2009, 09:43 PM) *
Here in Canada, you can't carry without a license. If you are carrying a weapon, you must have the license with you, too. You could be carrying or transporting a registered weapon but, if you didn't have your license with you, you'd still be breaking the law.


What about bringing your weapon home from the place of purchase; how does that work? I'm GUESSING that if you have a receipt with the current date to prove you are transporting your newly-bought gun to your home and you are carrying the weapon unloaded and in the trunk, it is okay?? Just curious.


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ChingusKhan
post Dec 6 2009, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE(koffeewitch @ Dec 5 2009, 08:42 AM) *
Another way gun registration helps is in the very fact that criminals DON"T participate. If an officer catches a person with an unregistered gun it brings up an immediate red flag.


Here in Canada, you can't carry without a license. If you are carrying a weapon, you must have the license with you, too. You could be carrying or transporting a registered weapon but, if you didn't have your license with you, you'd still be breaking the law.
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koffeewitch
post Dec 5 2009, 11:42 AM
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HURRAY for Canada...I just read on one of my animal rights forums that Canada just officially passed an act acknowledging that animals are sentient beings...I wonder if this can be used to keep factory farming out of Canada in favor of traditional, healthier farm practices.

However, I don't want to derail the on-going conversation about gun registry. Another way gun registration helps is in the very fact that criminals DON"T participate. If an officer catches a person with an unregistered gun it brings up an immediate red flag. If no one has to register their guns there is no litmus test for identifying potential problems. I know I brought this up in another thread, but I'll say it again. Down here we have insane crime problems. I live in Ohio. Not NYC or Detroit. Last month, the building right next door to me had a few homicides including the mother of young children being shot at close range in the face. We have so much gun violence that reports about it barely phase us. I would not wish this situation on any country in the world. While I believe our problem is not the guns so much as ignorance, poverty and the desensitization to violence, it's the GUNS that make me afraid to walk around at night.


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candycane_girl
post Dec 4 2009, 03:59 PM
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Okay, even though I said I didn't feel like posting in the lounge I cannot stay silent on the issue of gun control.

Able, you are right in saying that most long gun owners are people who live in rural areas and use the guns for hunting. That is true. However, it is also true that in cases of domestic violence in rural areas when a weapon is involved, the weapon of choice was a long gun. Thanks to the gun registry, the number of Canadian women murdered with firearms dropped from 85 in 1991 to 32 in 2005. You should also know that one in three women who are killed by their husbands are shot.

"You correctly pointed out that crimes are committed with stolen guns. Wouldn't knowing the original source of the stolen gun be helpful for returning it to it's owner and for solving the crime of theft?"

koffee is totally correct here. You may be a responsible gun owner but that doesn't mean that your gun can't get stolen and used to commit a crime. I do not understand why people have such a difficult time understanding that the point of the gun registry is to know who owns the 7 million firearms in this country. The registry is not there to punish responsible gun owners. It is their to make sure that all gun owners are accountable and to keep track of the millions of guns in Canada. On average, police officers access the gun registry about 10 000 times a day. If owners view themselves as being responsible then I don't see any reason why they would have an issue with registering their gun(s). In the past few months I have met a lot of people who have family members that use long guns to hunt. All of these people have registered guns and don't see any problem with it.
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koffeewitch
post Dec 4 2009, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE(doodlebug @ Dec 4 2009, 04:03 PM) *
It's funny, too, that parents are penalized by the child welfare program for things like not being able to provide their kids with adequate food, shelter, or clothing, but the minute those kids are snapped up by the state, the kids (not the parents) have access to whatever they need, plus it costs the state three times as much to support them in the foster care system than it would to provide adequate social assistance to families......


ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!! Can you even imagine how our foremothers would react to something like this? It used to be common for families to use all hand-me-down clothes or make all the children share a room or share beds. NOW this is practically seen as neglect. I can think of so many situations that were the norm 50 years ago, but are signs to accuse parents of criminal neglect nowadays. I recently had a social worker tell me that because I have children I "need" a land line phone. (We have 2 cell phones, mind you, because it is cheaper). Gee, how did our ancestors survive before phones and electricity? I really think if anyone bought some rural land and lived in a tent while they were building their own shelter that children's services might really come after them regardless how healthy and functional the family unit. I don't know about Canada, but here in the states we have some crazy social workers...


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doodlebug
post Dec 4 2009, 02:03 PM
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I think this should provide a good basic summary of the CAP program.

We've seen a lot of threats against domestic violence victims here in Canada. I'm not sure I disagree with the move towards apprehending children of women who are still stubbornly and actively engaged in relationships with abusers.....honestly, something needs to snap them awake to what their kids are witnessing and experiencing, and I'm speaking as someone who watched her dad beat the crap out of her mom. But after a woman leaves? Seriously? What incentive is that to even leave?

It's funny, too, that parents are penalized by the child welfare program for things like not being able to provide their kids with adequate food, shelter, or clothing, but the minute those kids are snapped up by the state, the kids (not the parents) have access to whatever they need, plus it costs the state three times as much to support them in the foster care system than it would to provide adequate social assistance to families......


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koffeewitch
post Dec 4 2009, 01:15 PM
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In my state (Ohio) I have talked with many women personally who had their children taken from them by Children's Services AFTER they had left an abusive partner. Children's Services demands that these women take classes in "domestic violence awareness" in order to get their kids back. Because, I guess, it's THEIR FAULT for getting into the relationship in the first place. How does that make sense? What it does is make sure that battered women in Ohio keep their condition a secret for fear of losing their children. This situation is so crazy I would not have believed it had I not interned for the Ohio DV Network and witnessed it first hand.

This CAP legislation you speak of intrigues me...


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doodlebug
post Dec 4 2009, 11:32 AM
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I think the whole thing missing about the debate on the gun registry is.....people who are using guns to commit crimes are probably, um, not registering their guns.

Also, I hate the political spin where the gov't uses the existence of the gun registry to show how wonderful they are in trying to end violence against women. What a load of crap. Crap, crap, crap. In the huge sea of violence against women, guns are a tiny drop of water. How 'bout mandatory sentencing for guys who use their FISTS as weapons? Huh? How 'bout putting a tiny bit of the money they've taken out of prevention programs? How 'bout restoring funding to women's centres and sexual assault centres? How 'bout restoring the CAP legislation, which guaranteed the universal right to income when in need (i.e.: when you are fleeing your fucking abuser)? How 'bout putting some money into social housing and childcare so that women have options besides staying with the prick who uses "his" money as a weapon?


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koffeewitch
post Dec 4 2009, 09:06 AM
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AbelDanger (et al.) I grew up in a rural area, too with rifles in the house for protection, etc. so I've never been as "anti'gun" as most people of my left-wing political persuasion. I am by no means a hunter, nor do I think like one so maybe you can enlighten me a little bit in terms of my assumptions. I would think that the gun registry would not interfere with hunters unless the hunter is constantly buying guns. I mean, once you've bought the gun and registered it, you can keep the gun for 15 or however many years. Most hunters already own their equipment. ANd if they do collect a lot of guns, they attract thieves. You correctly pointed out that crimes are committed with stolen guns. Wouldn't knowing the original source of the stolen gun be helpful for returning it to it's owner and for solving the crime of theft? I can sympathize with the cost and the unnecessary red tape. But I even wonder (without the gun registry) if criminals in Canada would end up selling guns across the border and bringing even more guns into the states. Mostly, I would hate to see Canada seeing an increase in the violent crimes we see down here. The harsh economy predicts a rise in crime most everywhere.


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culturehandy
post Dec 4 2009, 07:57 AM
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It's all in the transportation costs.

Being up north is like living in the inner city with grocery stores, the stores just hawk off all the crap that won't sell in an urban (ie rich) neighbourhood.

I had no idea about the Yukon deducting costs!!! that's insane. I know here in Manitoba, they don't do that. that is if you hunt for yourself, if you sell the game then you have to declare it, but that's insane. Who decides what a moose or elk or whatever costs?


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AbleDanger
post Dec 4 2009, 01:47 AM
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QUOTE(ChingusKhan @ Dec 3 2009, 03:27 PM) *
I have to correct this point. Most of the land mass of Canada is - obviously - rural but, in terms of population density, we're a very urban country. Percentage wise, as compared to the population of the US, more Canadians live in urban or large metropolitan areas.


Sorry, totally should have clarified. I love that most of Canada's population is urban 'cause it keeps things quiet for us northerners.

And food prices are ridiculous! Plus, lots of low income people and those on welfare use game meat as a necessary means of feeding themselves, because it's basically impossible to have any semblance of a healthy diet on welfare. Not to mention other barriers around nutrition levels and it's relationship to education levels, but that's a whole other topic for another day.

And now this is totally just a rant, but I hate going to the grocery store and because the food truck hasn't been in all week that most of the fruits and vegetables are gone and what is left is in terrible shape. It really makes you aware of how reliant we are on importing and transporting food.

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ChingusKhan
post Dec 3 2009, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE(doodlebug @ Dec 3 2009, 12:53 PM) *
I dunno. Have you ever seen the price of groceries in a small town and/or a northern town? It's ridiculously outrageous - the further north you get (I'm not even talking about the territories, but towns right here in B.C.) the more expensive it is, and the harder it is to find places to shop....


My experience with groceries in the North and small towns is that it's so much that the price rises but the quality decreases. And, the further north you go, the more dramatic the decline. Apples in YK, this time of year, are horrific.

I've been way North, into the Arctic Islands, and there, costs and quality are equally rancid. Paid $8.00 once, for 4 oranges, in Iqaluit, and they were so dry, I couldn't eat them.

With you on the long gun registry. The best intentions, sadly gone wrong. The money spent on it is truly, truly bizarre. You have to make a real special effort to spend that much to get that little.
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doodlebug
post Dec 3 2009, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE(ChingusKhan @ Dec 3 2009, 01:27 PM) *
Unless you're living in Rankin Inlet or Coppermine or some other Arctic hamlet, there's a grocery store nearby. Heck, there's a Walmart in Yellowknife!


I dunno. Have you ever seen the price of groceries in a small town and/or a northern town? It's ridiculously outrageous - the further north you get (I'm not even talking about the territories, but towns right here in B.C.) the more expensive it is, and the harder it is to find places to shop....and not everyone has the means to travel to the next big town (if there's one around) to buy "cheaper" food. Hunting for food is so common in places like the Yukon that the welfare department will deduct the cost of the moose meat (or whatever) from your welfare cheque, if they know you've bagged one.

That being said, my point isn't about scrapping the gun registry, which I no longer hold an opinion on, because (IMHO only) it's nothing more than a big pile of political spin any which way you portray it.

This post has been edited by doodlebug: Dec 3 2009, 03:56 PM


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ChingusKhan
post Dec 3 2009, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE
but considering that most of Canada is rural


I have to correct this point. Most of the land mass of Canada is - obviously - rural but, in terms of population density, we're a very urban country. Percentage wise, as compared to the population of the US, more Canadians live in urban or large metropolitan areas.

And, I'm sorry, but to suggest that the long gun registry be scrapped because rural Canadians have to hunt for their food is beyond ridiculous. Unless you're living in Rankin Inlet or Coppermine or some other Arctic hamlet, there's a grocery store nearby. Heck, there's a Walmart in Yellowknife!

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AbleDanger
post Dec 3 2009, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE(culturehandy @ Nov 4 2009, 10:59 AM) *
Koffee, the people don't have that power. What happens in parliament, is the official opposition gets an opposition day to question the government and there is the political scrum. In the case of a minority government (which is exactly that, a government which forms, not a majority, but a minority. The government still has more elected seats than the other parties). Anyways, the opposition can call a vote of non confidence, where the opposition parties vote in their confidence of the current government. If there are enough votes in favour of non confidence, then parliament is disolved and an election ensues.


Koffee, I'm super late to the game I know, but just to add because this is one of the things that makes budget time so much fun around here, any finance bill is automatically a confidence vote, so if the budget doesn't pass then we go into an election.

No idea about our animal fighting laws, but I can add something about the long gun registry. If you live in one of the major centres scrapping the long gun registry seems crazy, but considering that most of Canada is rural, there are a lot of people here who hunt for their meat instead of eating the extremely poorly treated animals that are found in the mainstream grocery stores (watch Food Inc., it depicted this really well) so long guns are very important to us. We also use them for bear defense (an actual, every day problem in the summer for many of us). So why wouldn't we want our guns registered? For one, the gun registry has been a big cluster****, with huge cost overruns that our sucking our tax dollars in economically hard times, there were big security issues with the electronic databases, and lots of people have guns they inherited from family members that would be considered illegal, despite the fact that they are never used and often don't even work anymore, and people don't want to give them up due to sentimental value. There's also a healthy dose of why does the government need to know what guns I own when I'm using them intelligently, and when stolen guns are the guns that the vast majority of crimes are committed with.

We also have pretty good regulations around what you need to purchase a long gun including taking a mandatory Firearms Acquisitions course or challenging the exam, getting a criminal records check done, and this takes a long time to do so because the government is slow so it's not like you can take the test and go out and buy a gun right away. Most of the people I know it took a couple months to have all their documents clear. and it's harder to purchase a handgun. That's just a few of my belated thoughts anyways.

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koffeewitch
post Dec 3 2009, 09:52 AM
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Could anyone tell me about animal laws in Canada? What is the basic penalty for dog fighting or abusing/torturing companion animals? How much of a problem do you feel there is with dog fighting and animal abuse in your area?


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pepper
post Nov 4 2009, 06:50 PM
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Koffeewitch, I'll pm you some links from an American buddy who is all up on the ugly down your way...

Oh, I loathe that Fucker in office but even still, another election any time soon and I'm gonna shoot somebody myself. What with the abolished gun registry it should be easy, right?
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