[sybarite]

(((moonpieluv))) That sounds really frustrating. My mister also disappears into his laptop, but then again so do I, and we almost never watch films together as we have quite different tastes. But these are patterns that have evolved over 3+ years of living together and we both like a lot of alone time too. I think we both feel happy knowing the other is around, in the house, even if we're not hanging out together at that moment. Your situation is disturbing you, and that's valid in itself. I hope, like RV says, the vacay will allow you two to hang out unplugged.

This line of yours stood out for me: 'This a man I may marry...so I want my ducks in a row... I really want to know what I'm dealing with here. Perhaps that's the reason for my heightened sensitivity.'
I felt the same way my first year with the mister, and our beginnings were fairytale-ish too. I was just so attuned to everything he did or said (or didn't do or say). Looking back I got a little obsessive, partly because I was between jobs, careers really, and generally felt insecure about my life at that time. The mister became the repository for all that insecurity, but also our first year was really intense, for both of us. The more you get to know about how the other works, the more you'll be able to understand each other's reactions and things will settle down, in a good way.

Going back a bit to the discussion about the comfort zone...the mister and I have been together for 7+ years, at least 3 of which were seriously up and down. Yet this year I feel we're even closer than ever... partly because we successfully weathered a year living with his teenage daughter with no disasters. We're silly affectionate with each other, we talk so well together (he's probably my favourite person to talk to), and the sex is still good. We're in a comfort zone for sure, but it's a fun one, and when we're childfree again I exect we'll have a blast.

[roseviolet]

Jesus, what a nightmare. My heart goes out to you, Moonpieluv. A line needs to be drawn, clearly. He's got to learn to compromise. I wish I knew some magic words that you could say that would get through to him, but I don't know him or his personality. Hell, I'm still learning the best ways to communicate my needs to Sheff, so I certainly can't be an expert on the other guys on the planet.

Personally, I don't think you're being too needy or obsessive. You're not telling him to stop playing the game entirely. In fact, I bet you'd be 1000% happier if he simply cut the gaming down to 3 or 4 nights a week. Right? I think that's extremely reasonable. Sounds like this vacation is coming at a great time. It'll be a wonderful chance for him to unplug and spend some time with you. Maybe sometime during the vacay you'll find an opportunity to talk to him and work out an agreement.

Question: Is Bestest Gaming Buddy single? Does he live locally?

[Moonpieluv]

oh rose... your post was very very helpful. It truly makes me feel better that there are others out there who deal with the whole gaming thing. I don't hate it entirely, as I respect the hobbies of others when they do no harm, are quite stimulating in many ways, and I dig the kitschy-ness of geekdom. I'm fine about it when I'm watching a movie or show.. when I'm reading...when I'm talking extensively with family.. I.E. when I'm doing something I want to do.. thing is my stuff doesn't last for hours and hours, days and days.. I would drop what I was doing to be with him. So..when does one draw the line? When do I decipher whether I'm being too needy, obsessive, or whatnot or HE is BEing obsessive, neglectful, and what not?
What's the worst of it?... I don't know how to communicate this concern with him!!! I've tried and nada. It's like I'm left with love it or leave it. My way or the highway.

What is he doing as I write this? yes, playing starwars talking on the phone with his bestest gaming buddy...like he has done well into the wee hours for the past week. StarWars is not a new game. It is a game that has replaced his obsession with Conan. If it's not one, it's another. It doesn't matter. I wish wish wish he could understand that it affects me as it does. I wish he gave a shit enough to realize his actions. The only time I "spend" with him is when I cook dinner for him, and we watch a few moments of shit tv. Then, it's off to the game again... and I'm left to clean up the mess. There have been times when we have gone to the movies...watched dvd's together...

I'm grateful that he's more affectionate and responsive to my affection then he was a few weeks into my moving in with him. He actually asked whether I knew that he rubbed on me when he came into bed late from gaming marathons. BUt...I'm still at a loss with how to communicate with him that I feel his gaming world overshadows the real world that he has with me.

I'm not here to be his scullery maid, cause I'm sure not a sex slave. I would take sex slave right now!!

We are to go on a week vacation starting tomorrow. It's been a week since we have been intimate (but I had a heavy visitor, so...)but... I'm afraid that he won't want to be intimate until we return. That's another week I have to wait to express my love in that way. Once a month is glaringly becoming a reality. And I DO NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL!! Not only do I have to deal with this gaming shit, not knowing how to communicate my concern, not even really knowing what other things to suggest to do since he only likes to go to the movies or the bar, but... I get boom boom only when HE's in the mood. Sigh... I'm frustrated. I'm just worried as hell that everything is going to based on HIS terms. And If I make one peep about it, it will just worsen the situation.
So not fun... so so so not fun.

I just pray to the sweet baby jesus in the sky that he is going to make an effort to be more present, if you will, next week on vacation.

Pugs---I feel like you do... take what you can get. And IMO, that's just fucked up. What's going to happen when I pop a move on him tonight? sadly, that's a rhetorical question cause I already know the answer.

Poop.

I love you all busties.

[LoveMyPugs]

for instance hubby came home last night from work moody. tough day. i ask about it listen to him rant, get a beer for him make him dinner, clean up dinner, ask if there is anything i can do (multiple times). he say thanks i am better. then proceeds to be grumpy at me all night long. so this morning when i am getting up and he is getting ready to go and isn't at all affectionate (no good bye, love, have a good day) i worry about what is wrong. he is probably just still stressed about work and i am likely making it worse by being over concerned.

This is a nightly situation for me. After about three days I give up. I've spent half the week trying my hardest to make him happy and once he's nice and relaxed and had a good meal, a shower and a chat what do i get? NOTHING!! i get to watch him play Call of Duty. Thanks. I think I'll go upstairs and watch a movie.

[font=Georgia]I'd adore it if one day in the middle of playing his game, he thought, "Hey. I miss Rose," and he shut down the game that moment and walked over to me and proclaimed his undying love for me. Or at least offered to take me to dinner. But that hasn't happened yet.

roseviolet - my same wishful thinking...

Opps, he remembered I'm here. Just asked if I was ready for bed. I'm off. Gotta take him when I can get him.

C-ya

[roseviolet]

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that everything is Happiness and Rainbows all the time with me and Sheff. It definitely isn't and I can totally sympathize with your situation, Moonpieluv. I have friends who say, "Oh, Rose, your marriage is so perfect and wonderful. I wish my relationship could be just like yours," and that makes me feel guilty because I feel that I'm giving people false expectations or something.

The truth is that we have problems. We fight. We have disagreements. We piss eachother off. It happens. But we tend to keep it between the two of us. If I have a problem with Sheff, I can only fix it by talking to Sheff. That's my policy. Occasionally I might talk to my best girlfriend about some things, but that's because she knows me & Sheff so well & I know she can call me out if I'm being shitty or have my head up my ass (which is true sometimes).

During the first year of our marriage we had this one HUGE fight.
HUUUUUUUGE!!!!!
It was LEGENDARY. And it was a very unique problem, as well. I will not recount the tale here. However, I will tell you that I called my best friend about it and she was totally agast. And then she started laughing and the absurdity of it all. Of course, it wan't absurd to me. I was livid! I was so pissed off, I researched anullment law, fercrissakes. This was one of those incidents that is so bizarre it does not even seem real. If I had seen a movie in which this had happened to 2 of the characters, I would have said it was ridiculous and unrealistic. But it happened and it was AWFUL. Bad bad awful bad. I had a rehearsal for a play that night and I seriously thought about not going home to him. I considered staying at my parents' house or my best friend's house. But in the end, I chose to go home. I chose to sleep in the same bed as him. I chose to talk to him. And yell and scream and finally calm down and talk some more. And we came to an agreement. And we understood eachother better. And we got through it and moved on.
Some of our friends ended up hearing about this Legenday Incident. I can kinda laugh about it now. But for me what makes it so legendary is that we survived it! And we didn't survive it by ignoring the issue. Instead, we faced it and talked and - gasp - came to an understanding.

So no, we aren't perfect. There are flowers and rainbows, sure. There's also the occasional pile of crap that needs to be cleared away. But that's okay. That's life.

Anyway.

The computer game thing is a tough one. Sheff makes video games for a living, so he needs to keep up on what's happening in the field. That means he plays games here at home. If he finds a game he really likes, he can get sucked into it and play it for hours and hours every day for weeks. Sometimes this doesn't bother me too much. We're each loners in our own way & we like having time alone. If he wants to play his game while I watch America's Next Top Model, that is 1000% fine with me, you know what I mean? But it can get out of control so easily. I've played some of these PC games with him before and, I swear, time goes by SO much faster in the game world that in reality. There are many times when we've been playing & I thought that only 20 minutes had passed, but it had actually been 3 hours! I remember one night when we were playing and I swore that it was only about 11pm, but when I looked at the clock, it was nearly 3am! How does that happen?! My point is that I have a little sympathy with the time-flying-by thing.

But.
The Real World needs to come before the Gaming World.

Sheff and I talked about this recently and he said that sometimes he just needs to be reminded of this The Real World is more important than the gaming world (and your real spouse is more important than virtual friends). Sounds obvious, but it can be easily forgotten. Sheff once said that the information on the game's disc or memory card will not break down and stop working if you neglect to play it for a few weeks, but you better believe your relationship will dissentigrate if you neglect it for that long. Even though these very words passed his lips, it can slip his mind from time to time. Luckily, Sheff has cut back in some departments. He used to play an on-line game that had teams and guilds and weekly meetings every Sunday afternoon and all sorts of bizarre crap. Those guys were more demanding than I was! They were attempting to take over his life and monopolize his time, so he dropped it. Why? Because the real world is more important than the gaming world. And because sometimes you just want to play a different game, ya know?

Seriously, though, this is not a fun topic to tackle. I have hated it every time I've had to tell Sheff that I miss him & I'd like us to spend more time together. I'd adore it if one day in the middle of playing his game, he thought, "Hey. I miss Rose," and he shut down the game that moment and walked over to me and proclaimed his undying love for me. Or at least offered to take me to dinner. But that hasn't happened yet. However, he's making an effort. He says that if I make plans for us (to go out dinner, see a play, whatever), he will happily join me. It's annoying that I have to plan the date, but I figure that if he spends time with me, then it'll remind him that I'm a pretty cool chick & he'll make more of an effort to spend time with me. That tends to work pretty well for us. For instance, last week I suggested we go out for dinner and a movie. He'd been sucked in by a new game for almost a week, so we really needed to get him out of the house! Well, we went and we had a good time. As a result, this week he proposed that we have our own movie marathon. We've been watching a new Harry Potter movie each night. And this weekend he invited some of our friends over to hang out. So we're doing something about it. Is it perfect? No. Afterall, he still plays the game for an hour or so after he comes home from work. But that doesn't bother me much & I see that he's making an effort so I appreciate that. If I need him to make more of an effort, I'll tell him.

One of the hardest things I had to learn about relationships was that sometimes I have to make the first step. Gawd, I wish he could read my mind. I wish he knew what I needed without me having to tell him. There are some things that seem so obvious to me and he just doesn't see them. But I've learned that there are things that seem obvious to him that I don't see. At the very least, he's got to make an effort to help me fix problems. I'm lucky in that Sheff is willing to hear me out & that we're both willing to make some compromises.


Good lord, I'm chatty today. My hormones have been all over the place this week, so I think I'll blame them.

[shinyx3]

moonpie, i truly think it is a woman lot in life to worry. i know i have such a hard time just letting things play out and not worry. for instance hubby came home last night from work moody. tough day. i ask about it listen to him rant, get a beer for him make him dinner, clean up dinner, ask if there is anything i can do (multiple times). he say thanks i am better. then proceeds to be grumpy at me all night long. so this morning when i am getting up and he is getting ready to go and isn't at all affectionate (no good bye, love, have a good day) i worry about what is wrong. he is probably just still stressed about work and i am likely making it worse by being over concerned.

rose, you do sound like you have a wonderful relationship. not that i think mine is not good. i do have a wonderful husband that i love dearly.

pugs, you also seem to have a strong relationship and it is good to hear from some one who is really able to accept someone for who they are. i commend you for your ability to do that with your man. i was so sure i did not want any more kids. so very very sure. but my hubby really wanted a baby and after a while i began to want another one too. people can change there minds and grow and see thing differently so you never know. . . bu, if mr pugs never decides kids are a good idea for him you seem to be dealing with that and able to accept it. busties are strong women!

as for a song . . .

Ágætis Byrjun - Sigur Rós

he took me out 6 times before he kissed me. we went to this artsy party and is was chilly out so we had sort of snuggled up. we had not been at all physical yet though. so that set the mood and made me want more. that was the first time he took me to his home and it was quite late. we sat on the couch and drank tea in front of the fire and that was the song playing when he kissed me. i still get all squishy inside when i think about it. i am smiling typing this. the next weekend we ditched the physical boundaries and mmmmmm.
ok, i got a little carried away there but since i didn't post lyrics i thought i should explain.

[Moonpieluv]

Rose and Pugs and ShinyX--I do agree that getting to that zone of truly discovering someone is important to me. I'm still in the process of getting to really know Mr. Luv. When we first reconnected, it was like a fairytale of sorts...reconnected after 10 yrs, coming together in a wild spark of "you're the one" ness, meeting the family, having him be so gung-ho and helpful with moving down here, etc. It's just after one week of being here, I realized that he was more of an avid game player than I thought he was... I mean, I knew that he spent time on the computer, but not to this extent. I was told that if I ever wanted to do an activity...explore this town, work in the yard, have him help me with house projects that require two people... all I would have to do is simply ask and the game would be paused. Not so, I'm afraid. I have taken to telling him what I would like to do( in a nice way) etc... but that doesn't necessarily mean that it happens. Of course, he's gotta want to do these suggested things with me. I find that the game usually wins out almost every time. I realize that this is his hobby, and that I would very much like to focus on one in the same manner... mainly because I think it would help me understand why he gives so much of his time to the puter. I think that it would take the focus off of me feeling like "why doesn't he Want to hang out with me?" to "well, we can do things together as a plan... in the meantime, I shall pamper myself".
Also, don't think for a second that I haven't tried to communicate my concerns with him on numerous occasions. I have tried just being open and not on the offensive about it... I've flubbed and been on the offensive about it... I have tried just not bringing it up and hoping he gets the hint that he's just not devoting enough quality time with me and try to entertain myself with other things...meanwhile, I would really like to spend time with him. Or maybe, it's not just me wanting to spend time with him... it's me wanting him to want to spend time with me rather than consecutively playing starwars til the wee hours of the morning talking on the phone with his gamer buddy. The times I've tried to express my wanting to spend one on one, he's said that he's not nearly on the computer as much as I perceive. That this is what he's always done. He has not exemplified balance as a result of said communication. I know that he must use it for work, but....It's frustrating, and I'm trying to come to terms with it. Trying to figure out if I can accept that most nights will be him doing exactly what he usually does. When he comes to bed, at least he rubs on my back and head a bit, puts his hand on my face as if he's gazing upon me... gawww..It is really sweet and really reassures me that we've got a good thing going.
But, It also cuts into time in which we could be expressing love sexually, as well. His schedule is very much off with mine because he chooses to stay up very late on a regular basis playing computer games, then of course... he sleeps in much later than I do. Another issue I've tried to understand is his low libido, and his discomfort about discussing it.

I do worry about his inability to try new things, his distrust of things unfamiliar to him, how he is seemingly narrow-minded. He debates, too... ((Pugs)). His supposed "logic" can be very annoying sometimes. His "logic" or his "debate" can seriously hinder us having a good heart to heart talk. I don't think he realizes how bigoted and abrasive he can come across sometimes... I think my humanitarianism softens him just a hair...either that or he just accepts that I'm more compassionate or liberal even though he doesn't always agree. Once I can get him to stop all that "logic" business, he usually opens up and is more tender.

We are affectionate. We do say we love each other frequently. He does do little things that make me happy. He has been incredibly supportive of me not having funds right now. I know he wants to the core things that I want--family, home, marriage, teamwork. I SEE a future with us... life insurance, kids, all of it. I'm just not sure how well he understands how one goes about these things. That compromise should be practiced in order to ensure both of us are happy. That he should really listen to me, and validate my feelings. I DO NOT think I'm being outrageous in needing this.

Anyways, Rose.. I'm so glad for you having such a wonderful relationship with your husband. I'm not saying mine's sucky, I've just got a few things I'm trying to figure out how to compromise, accept, understand, or otherwise decide whether it's a deal-breaker or not. I've been in a very long term relationship before, so I'm fully aware of the waxs and the wanes, the ebbs and flows. I was in one that I had more in common with in terms of musical tastes, style/fashion, books, indie stuff.. but in the end kablam. Now, I'm with a guy that would be considered "off" from what people would expect, and I truly want to work at this relationship, and don't feel negative about it taking work. This a man I may marry...so I want my ducks in a row... I really want to know what I'm dealing with here. Perhaps that's the reason for my heightened sensitivity.

I dunno.. .maybe I worry too much. We go on vacation for a week with his family tomorrow. I truly hope that will give us some superior quality time, that he will be more connected with me.

Sorry so long!

[edie52]

Rose, your posts about you and Sheff often make me teary...

Sareybelle, I completely relate to your fears. I have all of the same worries, though back in the infatuation stage I actually didn't think about it too much. I have realized though, that it's pointless to worry too much about these things. EVERYTHING in life changes. Sometimes that sucks, sometimes it's a blessing, but the most important thing is how you deal with it. You've already gotten a bunch of more specific advice from the others, so I'll leave it at that.

I've been with my boyfriend for over a year now. We fell in love quickly and I instantly felt comfortable with him, and soothed by his presence (yet it was really exciting too). I moved away for 8 months and we stayed together through that. And I think we're now entering the reality phase, where we're more comfortable, and it really scares me. When we see each other he doesn't kiss me hello any more or look at me in that totally smitten way, and sometimes I notice that hours have gone by and he's barely touched me. We see each other pretty much every day, and we've both been exhausted from work lately, so it's understandable. Yet we make a good team and we WANT to see each other, at least I do (I hope he's not doing it out of habit or obligation). I've talked about my fears with him, but he just reassures me that everything is normal and says I worry too much. I do trust him and believe him when he says that he doesn't want to break up. I don't want to either, I want to work on things more. He's receptive to talking, but I've been talking about this too much lately. Maybe the problem is that it always comes out as paranoid fears rather than simply wanting to talk about which way our relationship is going. I just want him to admit that things ARE changing, and know how he feels about that. But he always just says he's tired.

He's soon going to the other side of the country to be with his family for a month; I'm invited but can't decide whether I should "follow" him there (even though I want to go and it would be a new experience for me) or stay here and live my independent life with my own friends and work and apartment. I have to decide soon.


Sareybelle, we don't have a song that we've agreed upon, but in my head it's "Nocturama" by Nick Cave. It's kind of dark, but the chorus is just so beautiful. And "Sweet Thing" by Van Morrison.

[roseviolet]

Sareybelle, you must have posted while I was composing my earlier response. Those are some really fabulous songs you've listed! I love it when people play lesser known songs at their weddings. "In Spite of Ourselves" is simply hilarious, yet sweet in the best way.

Are you familiar with Susan Werner? I get a feeling you might like her. Her style is kinda folksy, but she's really all over the map (in a really great way). The disc of her's I 've been listening to the most lately is "I Can't Be New." Most of the songs are very Cole-Porter-esque. They sound like they could be standards, but they're her original work. There's one song in particular that always reminds me of my parents' 40th wedding anniversary bash from last year. It's a sweet, romantic little thing called "Don't I Know You".

Don't I know you from someplace
I'd swear I know you from someplace
'Cos that really is some face
Don't I know you from someplace

Don't I know you from somewhere
I'd swear I know you from somewhere
From those lips beyond compare
Don't I know you from somewhere

You, I know you from our honeymoon
And from the happy day we met
But when the bills pile high
And when the babies cry
How very quickly we forget

Don't I know you from sometime
Yes it's really been some time
So let's steal tonight from time
'Cos I know you from someplace

You brush against my skin
The passion's back again
This love song isn't over yet

'Cos I still know you from somewhere
I can still hear the drum there
We were never far from there
'Cos I know you from somewhere
I still know you from sometime
Don't I know you from someplace


Honestly, Sheff & I don't have one song. We have a number of them & most are not really wedding appropriate. We didn't really have a lot of music at our wedding. It was a small, intimate affair (less than 20 people) so we didn't have a DJ or dancing or anything like that. Just a string quartet for the ceremony & part of the reception. What can I say ... we wanted something simple, cozy, & intimate.

Some of our songs include New Model Army's "225", "In a Big County" by Big Country (very old school, but if you knew us, you'd know the lyrics fit), and "Sweet Avenue" by "Jets to Brazil" (love!). If you asked Sheff, he'd probably throw in "Calling You" by Blue October & a few more. And the list keeps growing as time goes by. As I said, I've been listening to Susan Werner this week & there are a number of her songs that make me think of Sheff - especiall "Tall Drink of Water".


The summer sun's blazing
It bakes the ground
But I'm waitin' baby
'Til you come 'round
You're like a tall drink of water
On a long hot day

Withering flowers
Thirsty grass
Here you come shining
Shimmering in the glass
Just like a tall drink of water
On a long hot day

And all of this summer puts thoughts in my head
Thoughts that simmer the sheets of my bed
And I don't remember just what you said
But oh I'm sizzling now

And you're six foot and something
So cool, so slim
Just add a slice of lemon on the rim
You're a tall drink of water
On a long hot day

And I don't remember just what you said
But oh I'm sizzling now

So pour me a pitcher of those sweet, sweet eyes
And let the mercury forever rise
'Cos you're like a tall drink of water
You're like a tall drink of water
On a long hot
Day

[roseviolet]

LoveMyPugs, sorry to hear that you two disagree on such important topics as marriage and kids. That must be tough.

I gotta say that I disagree with the notion that "sharing your feelings to stupid because we know each other so well we already know what the other is thinkings so why share/talk about what we are feeling on the inside". Actually, a statement like this would be a deal-breaker for me. Guess it just shows again how we all have different priorities. A deal-breaker for some is a simple compromise for others. Compromise is certainly an important aspect of any relationship, but you have to learn for yourself where to draw the line.


When I broke up with my last boyfriend, I was distrought. We'd been together for 7 years & I'd always known in my heart that it wouldn't last, but I didn't want to let go. When I dumped him, I hadn't even been planning on it. I was just fed up and I could take it anymore & I broke up with him, seemingly, on a whim. In the 2 weeks after the break-up, everything else in my life seemed to crumble apart: I got fired from my job and my family's beloved dog drowned to death while I slept less than 100 feet away. It was so horrible I have no words to describe it. I started to wonder if I'd made a big mistake. Luckily, my beloved Uncle Buster was visiting my parents and he had a great talk with me. He and my aunt have been married for over 50 years. At one point, they came terribly close to divorcing, but they worked their way back. He said that the biggest lesson he learned is "You've gotta put it all out on the table." You've got to be willing to share everything. Talk about everything. Even the shitty stuff. You've got to work together as a team. If you aren't a team, then it isn't going to work. As I listened to him, I saw that my ex and I had never been a team in that sense. We were great playmates & friends (and that ex is now one of my best friends & still a fun person to talk to). But when it came down to my life partner, I wanted more. I needed more. And according to my uncle, I definitely wasn't asking for too much.

So now I'm with a guy who will talk about his feelings. I'm not saying that every day he sits down and spills his guts like he's in therapy or something. I just mean that if he's troubled by something, he talks about it with me. If needs to ramble about something that's troubling him at work, I'm here to listen. If he's concerned about something in his personal life or between the two of us, I want him to bring it to me. Plus, there's the really good stuff! Like, we say, "I love you" multiple times every day because it makes us happy. We tell eachother that we're proud of eachother. We compliment eachother (Last night I tried a new recipe that he really enjoyed. He must have told me 3 times how much he liked it!). We don't buy eachother a lot of gifts, but that's what we prefer (To me, surprise gifts = clutter. I'd rather he save the money & just give me a good shagging ). That's the kind of relationship we want, so that's what we work to have. But that's just us. It's not perfect, but it's really great.

[sareybelle]

So much insight, thanks everybody... I LOVED the bit about how communication isn't a long enough word to convey it's importance. I think that will stick in my mind forever. I also loved the part about your wedding vows. I have to say that while I am often annoyed at the commercial aspect of weddings (I am in a bluegrass band that is occasionally hired to perform, wedding planners are the a** of my life), I always love watching the way people look at each other during the ceremony, and hearing the homemade vows. I think more men cry than women at their weddings!

So, a slight change of topic since I am feeling romantic, what's "your song," if you have one? I have sung at a lot of people's weddings but so far, have never had a repeat of a first dance song. That's because I generally help the couple pick one if they don't have one already in mind, based on the history their relationship (we usually only do friends' weddings). In fact, I usually have one already in the back of my mind, so when they're like, "what do you think we should do for our fi..." I'm like, "In Spite Of Ourselves by John Prine." Or "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me, by the Jayhawks. Trust me."

My favorite of all time was singing this one at my BEST FRIEND IN THE WORLD'S wedding. She and her husband have a boat and go out on the water all the time, in fact that was where much of their courtship happened. So I picked this one by Gillian Welch- it's a waltz and easy to slow dance to.

I wanna go all over the world
and start livin' free
I know that's there's somebody who
is waiting for me
I'll build a boat, steady and true
as soon as she's done
I'm gonna sail straight into the arms
of my dear someone

One little star, smiling tonight
knows where you are
stay little star steady and bright
to guide me afar
rush little wave, out over the deep
for now I've begun
Hurry and take me into the arms
of my dear someone
hurry and take me into the arms
of my dear someone.

Don't know that I'll get married, but if I do, I think I'd like "True Love Travels On a Gravel Road" because I think it's such a great song and every time I heard it, it would remind me of the kind of people I hope that we as a couple would be.

How many girls choose cotton dress worlds
When they could have satins and lace
And stand by her man through good times and bad
And still keep a smile on her face
And how many hearts could face the winters we've known
And still not turn cold
True love travels on a gravel road
Love is a stranger
And hearts are in danger
On smooth streets paved with gold
True love travels on a gravel road
Down through the years we've had hard time and tears
But it only makes our love grow
And we'll stay together
No matter how hard the wind blows
Not once have I seen your blue eyes filled envy
And stray from the warmth that they hold
True love travels on a gravel road
Now love is a stranger
And hearts are in danger
On smooth streets paved with gold
True love travels on a gravel road
True love travels on a gravel road
And it's gonna be rough sometimes
But I want to travel only along the road with you

[LoveMyPugs]

roseviolet - we recently went on vacation with friends and they had two little boys. mr. pugs said he thought he might bond with the kids and maybe it would change his perspective on children. when we came back from vacation he said the he, more then ever, doesn't think he wants to have kids. here i had my hopes up and now, nope he still doesn't care for them. oh well, i guess i'm going to just have to enjoy my nieces and nephews and my pugs. mr. pugs is not worth giving up for the children that could have been.

[roseviolet]

Here's a funny perspective: when Sheff and I were first falling in love, I longed for the comfort zone. The infatuation stage scares me because I've been through it with multiple people before - and it was always so wonderful with all of those men - but after the infatuation wore off, I felt that I finally got to see whether I really worked with those guys & whether we would survive in the long term. Obviously, most of my previous relationships couldn't hold up in the long term, but the longer I'm with someone, the more painful it is to break up. I guess I felt that, if we weren't meant to be together, I wanted to know right away so that it wouldn't be more painful. Also, I loved Sheff and I wanted us to make it, but I didn't want my mind clouded by the delusions of infatuation. I wanted to know that what we had was real and would stand the test of time.

Well, we've made it to the comfort zone. We've known eachother for more than 6 years, been married for more than 3. And we're happy. I think back on the passionate early days of our romance fondly & I appreciate those days, while at the same time appreciating the deeper love and respect we have developed over time. Like Beck, we don't make out in public, but that's kinda our way of respecting eachother and our relationship. We just wouldn't be comfortable doing that in public. We'd rather do it at home. That doesn't mean that we haven't talked about having a few moments of steathy intrigue in quiet corners, but when it comes down to it, we'd rather be home where we can do whatever we want as loudly as we want without worrying about getting caught.
[cough cough]

Honestly, though, this is all about personal preferences. Your relationship can be what you want it to be. Just don't expect it to happen on its own. It takes work and it takes communication. It's a shame that "work" is such a small word, because it is such a HUGE thing. Even "communication" doesn't seem like a long enough word to express the enormous importance of it. It takes dedication and effort. But if you're with the right person, there is a tenderness there & a pride that you feel when you make the effort & when you do the work. So in a strange way, the work can be pleasurable.

One of the main reasons why I adore my husband so much is because we talk about deeply important things. We don't just chatter on about movies and books alone. We talk about our fears and worries. It can still be hard to bring things up, but we always feel so much better afterwards. He has such an amazing perspective on things that his words always help be find a way to get through the issues I'm facing. When the problem is between the two of us, it's obviously going to be difficult, but we're always better for doing it. If we couldn't talk through problems, there's no way in hell we'd be together today. It's easy to get through the happy times together. It's our ability to work well together through the shit that has made our relationship as strong and beautiful as it is. It is the core of our & is our strongest bond. Even in our marriage vows, we said something that acknowledged that we'd been through hell and back together and we'd come out stronger because we'd supported one another. "Surley this goodness is no mistake," we said in our vows. It wasn't a mistake. Not at all. It took work, but a special type of work and communication that I've never been able to accomplish with any other human being I've ever met. It wasn't a mistake. It was love.

Another odd perspective: One of the reasons why I felt confident marrying Sheff is because I could imagine us buying life insurance together. I know that sounds horribly boring, but that's the point. We have an ability to talk about the really important-yet-boring things & agree on them. We also like a lot of the same movies and music and of course that's important, but when it comes to life's big decisions - no matter how boring they are - I know we're there as a team, tackling it together. That creates a core of strength that I feel very deeply.

I will admit that this is hard. There are times when I really really wish we didn't have to deal with communication. I wish that Sheff could read my mind and surprise me with the exact thing I want. Every once in a blue moon, he does. But most of the time, we have to tell eachother what we want. If I want to spend more time with him, I have to tell him. If I want us to do more things together, I have to plan it (He plans things for us, too). We have had to sit down and discuss this and take mutual responsibility for it. If one of us thinks the other is slacking, then we talk about it (and yup, sometimes the conversation gets tense, but we keep talking until we understand eachother better & the tension is gone).

I feel that I should say now that I am not trying to say that everyone's relationship needs to be exactly like mine & Sheff's. These are just examples from my life. I don't think that every couple needs to get married and I don't think that every couple needs to cut down on the PDA as the relationship gets older. All you need to do is work to have a relationship that makes you both happy.

A couple of years ago I met a girl who'd been dating the same guy for a couple of years. She really really wanted to get married & hoped that maybe, since we're married, Sheff and I would have some influence ... that we might be able to pressure her boyfriend into coming around to her way of thinking somehow. Obviously, this chick didn't know me very well because I would never do something like that. Relationships are far too personal for me to do something as rude as tell someone whether they should or shouldn't get married, whether they should or shouldn't have a baby, etc. I will tell people that they need to talk with eachother and work to have a relationship that meets both of their needs, but only they can know what that means. I have friends who are not married and have no desire to do so. If that makes them both happy, then good for them. I have friends who are in open relationships who occasionally have sex with other people. If that makes them both happy, then good for them. I have friends who've decided to never have children and I have other friends who had 4 babies by the time they were 30. They made different choices, but they each worked with their partners to make decisions that make them happy. That's what matters.

[LoveMyPugs]

Moonpieluv - You might think you and Mr. Luv "have already reached that seperate, but comfortable phase or something" but that might just be the infatuation dying down a bit. "Dying" is the wrong term. Mr. Pug used to say that love is like a charcoal grill. You have big flames in the beginning but then it dies down and you have to keep the coals warm for a life time. I think that die down period comes at different times for everyone. For Mr. Pugs and I, I think it was after about two years. We had a really hard couple of years there but then things spiked again and we are both very happy. Lately, we've had a lot of new speed bumps to deal with. Well, reallly, it's stuff that I need to deal with. He's changed a lot and I still love him and am trying to adjust. The hard thing is that I feel like I have to adjust to this alone. Mr. Pugs is very manly and doesn't deal well with the emotional times that I go through as a female. PMS for him is awful. He just get so frustrated with me. Sometimes I think he wants to move out for a week of every month. Sometimes I want to move out. I worry he's going to just get sick of my shit and bounce but I hope he sees past those times and sticks it out. relationships aren't easy.

shinyx3 - no i don't think romance comes naturally to men. Mr. Pugs doesn't have a romantic bone in his body. He'll give you a lecture on why flowers are pointless and why sharing your feelings to stupid because we know each other so well we already know what the other is thinkings so why share/talk about what we are feeling on the inside. men don't share. mr. pugs debates. he doesn't believe in marriage. he thinks it's just a piece of paper and hates the planning and money it takes. it doesn't matter that the event (small as it may be) means something to me. he just doesn't get it and therefore doesn't want it. it's very frustrating. wedding plans will always be on the back burner in his mind. i've kind of accepted that about him but it makes me sad and frustrated.

I still get sweet words but they are different then they used to be. For example, the other day Mr. Pugs was playing call of duty. I was upstairs for a bit. When I came downstairs he got the in a certain game room he's been missing and he made this comment like, "I always get the best rooms when you watch me. You are my good luck charm." I thought that was cute and it made me smile. Certainly not the sweet nothings he used to whisper to me when we first started dating but I take what I can get. Plus I get many I love you's and cuddles. It's enough to keep me around.

[shinyx3]

i feel the same way too often. i do not think romance comes naturally to very many men. they figure it out enough to get the girl then it is like it is all used up. (false advertising?) i still try to keep myself pretty and not let myself go (honestly i think this may be more for myself than for my man though) where are the sweet words and complements and phone calls and back rubs and little things that let me know i am thought of.

moonpie, my man loves his 'puter more that me too. seriously it gets way more time in bed than i do. *pouting*

as for the PDA i love it but only get it when we are away from where we live and he is rather tipsy. i used to get it all the time. we used to go out together lots too. now we only go out every 4 months or so. pretty say i know. i pout about it but he just gets mad and says i am not being supportive of him and his work. (who the fuck supports me i wonder?)

ok, i did not come on here to be all ranting about my man. sorry. i just wanted to say that i am empathizing with the "comfort zone"

[Moonpieluv]

I get a little scared of exactly what sareybelle discussed... I feel like Mr. Luv and I have already reached that seperate, but comfortable phase or something. only I'm not so sure how comfortable I am with that... seeing as we have only been together for a few months. It's like we're already settled in.. nevermind having romance...I'd being happy with a few sweet words or compliments every now and again. We are affectionate to each other, but mostly he just sits in front of his computer all day and into the night... and the next morning. His whole world it seems is engrossed with his puter hobbies..gaming and their forums. It's like we sped thru the springtime of love... I would really like more springtime. It's like he got me, and now...

[LoveMyPugs]

I suspect it will wear off

the real trick is not letting it wear off. mr. pugs and i (when we've had enough to drink) will still kiss in dark corners at parties. our friends tease us but if we apologize once caught they just say something like, "Hey that's how you two have lasted as long as you have." Mr. Pug smacks me on the ass in front of our friends all the time. Usually, I'm shocked and a bit embarrassed but he's all smiles and our friends usually are laughing at my red face. Whatever!! I can't handle it. (I'm not too proud to admit that I like his attention.)

[sareybelle]

heheheh we are still kind of gushy like that - although i am not a PDA kind of girl so we do it in the privacy of our own home

i was single for long enough that i generally avoid being too couply (sp?) in public as i remember how shit it was being single and surrounded by what seemed like at the time, smug couples. (misanthropic, moi?)

now i really like seeing happy couples as long as they are not groping each other or anything, and i will hold hands and even (!) kiss

i really need to get off the internets and go eat something that is not chocolate. laters

I always liked seeing couples make out in public even in my long years of being single, so it hasn't surprised me that much that we're kind of gross with the PDA. He has ridden his bike down to the park by the White House a few times and we've napped on a blanket at lunch and totally made out. I think I was single for so long that I thought, "if I ever meet a man I like again I'm making out with him in public and who cares anymore!" I suspect it will wear off, meanwhile our friends are probably a little shocked because I guess it's pretty out of character, at least for me. You may be Miss Anthropic, but I'm the runner up! I don't think anyone foresaw me becoming such a sap, myself included.

I need to get off the internets and go shelve some books! Thanks for the advice and insight everybody.

[beck]

heheheh we are still kind of gushy like that - although i am not a PDA kind of girl so we do it in the privacy of our own home

i was single for long enough that i generally avoid being too couply (sp?) in public as i remember how shit it was being single and surrounded by what seemed like at the time, smug couples. (misanthropic, moi?)

now i really like seeing happy couples as long as they are not groping each other or anything, and i will hold hands and even (!) kiss

i really need to get off the internets and go eat something that is not chocolate. laters

[sareybelle]

I'm rereading what I wrote and can totally see where it was easy to read two ways- the "secretly miserable" sentance. Sorry about that, please allow me to clarify that. What I meant was that if given the choice between two and only two options: 1) being alone and happy and 2) being with someone and miserable, I'll take alone and happy. However, I do believe that with someone and very happy is VERY possible, and if that third option were thrown into the mix I'd gladly take that. Does that make more sense? I don't believe that there are only two ways of being in this world, at all. But I can see how what I wrote was ambiguous. I am sorry that I implied something that certainly would seem offensive.

Thirtiesgirl, thanks for that insight as well. What you wrote resonated particularly sharply because that's the thing about this guy- we kind of identified ourselves as a team SO QUICKLY. This is after years of being single and establishing our own identities- we've both had great careers, I'm in a band, we love our friends and families, travel a lot, do whatever we feel like doing, blah blah blah. I wonder what will happen if indeed the sense of familial camraderie wears off? Right now all we can do is gush about how clever the other is. If I tie my shoes differently than him, he notices. "It's clever, the way you just figured out that tip Eric." "You drive really safely. Usually I'm a nervous passenger, but you use the signal and check the mirror every time." It's SICK. I just wonder what it will be like if/when everything starts to feel normal instead of us being completely hyperaware of how happy we are.