[nbdx0645]

(Also, sorry the previous post got long. I re-wrote it a few times to try to make my disagreement as respectful as I could. And then it was past bedtime, so I went "Wordiness, so what" and hit post.)

I don't care if posts get long when they contain content like that.

That top is so cute (and it's fully lined!) That'd be a great top sans bra.
Edit: I found this bra this bandeau on clearance.

I kept browsing through the shirts and really liked this button-down and this daring top and this going-out top and this work appropriate button-down omg I can't stop this too!

[anarch]

I hope we all can continue to hash out what we need to around this. I don't want to have inadvertently silenced anyone. I think y'all are cool and have perspectives I enjoy learning from. This afternoon I was thinking about all this, and I suddenly wondered, was there ever a cosmetic surgery thread in the Lounge? I half-remember some talk of one, a few years back, but maybe I'm just wrong.

On a lighter note, I like this lace V-neck Victoria's Secret top.

(Also, sorry the previous post got long. I re-wrote it a few times to try to make my disagreement as respectful as I could. And then it was past bedtime, so I went "Wordiness, so what" and hit post.)

[nbdx0645]

What they said.

I stand back in awe when I read the recent posts. There's really no place like this. I don't need this space like I used to; what Angie said holds true for me, too. My body once consumed every day of my life for multiple hours a day, and now it's way, way down from that. It also helped ease my fears about aging and injury. It did more than teach me to find peace with my breasts; it made me place less emphasis on the body (mine and others.) Does that make sense? I hope so.

I'm hoping that the small breast support group sticks around and that the recent posts could serve as a great backlog.

[coffeebean]

Anarch, great post! I can completely empathize with the feelings of ambivalence that you were having with regard to the way this tread was going and do concur with you and the other ladies in supporting a tread that supports/embraces/celebrates women with small breasts. Regardless of my protective comments of spot-on, I do want this community to remain supportive, protective, tolerant, and safe for all members to post.

I apologize to you Karategrrl for centering you out! I chose to quote your words in haste and realize that it would have been better to speak more generally about my perceived change in feelings towards spot-on and her decision. I have to admit that there were a several comments made by a number of members that got my 'alarm bells' going off with regard to spot-on not being able to empathize/support/contribute because her outward appearance changed. With that said, I have been following the thread long enough to fully acknowledge that everyone was very supportive of spot-on throughout the time she was considering getting implants right up until after her surgery!

I guess my hope in moving forward is that we can continue to support each other in whatever bra size we find ourselves in!

[strongirl]

anarch, that was a long post but I agree with karategrrl, very well said.

"There's enough validation in our culture for boob enlargements as it is, I thought. It's freakin' everywhere."

Exactly.

[strongirl]

Karategrrl, I kept wanting to defend you because I thought you had been misinterpreted and you really have been extremely supportive to Spot-on throughout. But I was worried I might be misinterpreted myself or that worse, I might mis-represent you, so I thought it was better to keep my trap shut and let you speak for yourself. I'm glad you did.

[karategrrl]

anarch, very well said. I can't really add anything much except to echo that it seemed like the tone was changing--we all were supportive of spot-on in her decision (and I am, too), but it could potentially change what this forum is all about. You put it best when you said:

"So if more regular commenters went for implants and also kept on posting in here, then it'd be difficult to critique the mainstream unquestioned "boob jobs are improvements on genetic defects" culture without triggering conflicts and hurt feelings."

Coffeebean, you misunderstood me. What I meant about spot-on was that WE had nothing to offer HER as far as small breast support because well, she no longer has them. I admit I'm a tad pissy to have my comment singled out because I've been a long-time poster here and was VERY supportive to spot-on both on- and off-board (despite my personal feelings against them), and have always tried to contribute to this forum and support everyone here. I would think I would be given the benefit of the doubt. But we are all here to discuss things out in the open, so I'm glad you said what was on your mind.

That said, welcome, coffeebean! And lurk no more.

[anarch]

I agree with y'all. I really admire Spot-on for her intelligence, honesty, and generosity and I will miss her posts. (And Spot-on, I also think it'd be lovely if you decide to pop in now and again to share.) At the same time, the purpose of this thread is to celebrate the positive experiences of life with small breasts and to support each other through the negative experiences.

I've been debating whether to voice my own opinion, but since this comment captures the ambivalence I've been feeling, I'll just voice it. If people take exception to what I say, I may decide to clarify my meaning once or twice, but I won't draw it out into an argument.

Spot-on's contributions have been consistently thoughtful, compassionate, and well worded. Her account of her decision and the surgery was generous and informative. I'm glad she made a decision that feels right for her.

And...this forum's original purpose (somebody correct me if I'm mistaken) was to give small-boobed women and girls a place for consistently hearing and saying stuff like "Hey, small boobs are not defective. They're perfect, sexy, and beautiful just as they are. Social messages that tell us that small boobs make a woman unsexy and undesirable -- those messages are what's defective. People in our lives who sneer at and put down women with small boobs, for having small boobs, their attitudes and behavior are defective too. Not small boobs." It created a safe space, a rare niche, where we could get away, some, from the idea that small boobs are a problem. In so much of mainstream culture, the assumption "Small boobs are defective" goes unquestioned, it's just taken as a given. Here, we questioned it. I hung out here because I valued that.

coffeebean (I'm sorry, I can't figure out how to quote more than one person at a time) said: This implies that spot-on would not have been able to cheer on/support/empathize with other women who were happy with/struggling with breast body issues just because her breast size changed. I don't think that it is mandatory that someone have small breasts at this exact moment to be able to relate to many of the stories shared on this board. What about the woman who developed breasts in her 20's but still carries around negative feelings about having small breasts because she was teased throughout high school (this is me by the way)? What about the woman who had small breasts all of her life until a sudden weight gain and then her breasts also became larger. Internal feelings do not always change just because the exterior does.

This is true. At the same time, I've been trying to reconcile sentiments like (even a lighthearted) "you MAY find in the future that your opinion and attitude towards [implants] may change," (I would have interpreted this comment as entirely respectful, just as all of Spot-on's comments always have been), with "Small boobs are perfect as they are. They're not defective." Trying to reconcile, and failing. Maybe y'all have perspectives on this that would help me see it in a different light, but at the moment, they look incompatible to me. I think the original purpose of this thread could handle an occasional remark along those lines. But not if it became a regular thing. It seemed to me that this could very well open the door to implants becoming a regular thing generally talked about in here with approval, since of course women have to make decisions that are right for them, and it's wrong to attack them for doing so. So if more regular commenters went for implants and also kept on posting in here, then it'd be difficult to critique the mainstream unquestioned "boob jobs are improvements on genetic defects" culture without triggering conflicts and hurt feelings. If most people in here were comfortable with this forum going in that direction, then...

Well, I didn't see many people airing these kinds of reservations during one of the intermittent times that I checked in here during Dec-Jan, so I thought to myself, "This is different. I very much prefer being around 'small boobs are not inferior. They are perfect just as they are and women who have small boobs are also perfect just as they are' messages. But it looks like the small boobs thread is evolving into something that conflicts with that message. And it looks like most of the posters there are comfortable with it. I'm not. So instead of upsetting people with my reservations, I'll just leave the thread to the people who are happy to embrace this change."

There's enough validation in our culture for boob enlargements as it is, I thought. It's freakin' everywhere. It was nice to have this one place to go to, where we could both freely critique the popular assumption that small-breasted women should want to get boob jobs because they're unsexy without...and get encouragement and validation for loving our bodies just as they are.

[angie_21]

I'm a bit sad about so many people leaving, but I suppose I have been one of them! I still lurk here from time to time, but have stopped posting for a few reasons, the biggest one being that this particular thread is very active and I just plain don't have the free time to keep up anymore. But also, I have reached a point in my life where I just don't care about my breasts anymore. I think I am beautiful as I am, and so are they. Not only is there absolutely nothing wrong with them, I think they are pretty fantastic. I don't need support about it. And I don't want to keep exposing myself to the idea that I do, its harmful to my well-being. I've had so much positive attention to my physical appearance after losing weight last summer (and losing a little bit of my already limited boobage in the process) that I just don't see how I could complain about how I look. I love that I can change my appearance depending on my mood or outfit using different bras, and option I wouldn't have if I was naturally well endowed - you can always add padding, but you can only minimize whats already there so much.

I love all you girls, and miss talking with you. I hope spot-on continues to be happy with her decision and I understand why she made it. If I was still unhappy with my appearance, maybe I would consider it in the future too, but I am relieved to be thrilled with how I look without having to spend that kind of money or any health risks. The point of being here is that we want to stop obsessing about our appearance and feeling bad about ourselves. Whether or not implants are a part of the problem for many girls, I have been able to love myself and how I look regardless of what other people out there look like. I hope everyone else here is one day able to do the same, because it is emotionally damaging and limiting not to be able to. There will always be someone out there who is in some way prettier, smarter, funnier, luckier, wealthier, etc, it's inescapable. And to others, we may always be that other "better" person in many ways as well. There's too much going on in the world to waste time worrying about it!

Love to all my small-busted girls out there! May you find your peace as well

[buttercups]

Why are all my small boobied sisters leaving?? Implanted, formerly small, small now, or even never been small- I don't care I love all of you and I don't want you to go. I value all of your opinions and I think we all have something to offer on this topic. I haven't had a chance to read everything posted here recently, but even if there were some disagreements well that's what happens in families and we are a small-bustie family (even if we all aren't necessarily small-busted) and we need to stick together! I respect all of your views and love hearing everyone's perspective. A lot would be lost from this place if you guys should leave. You have all contributed to helping my self-image immensely and I would hate to no longer hear from any of you! Please reconsider!

P.S. Thanks for posting that link AP- I always like to stay informed, especially about something like that!

[insideout]

Hmmm I suppose I'll leave after this post too, I don't seem to fit in here at all although I've lurked for years as well. I think it was a mistake trying to become an active member. Just some parting thoughts: I hope my comments were not taken to be malicious - it was not my intention to hurt or attack anyone. Good luck and stay strong

[auralpoison]

I have been a long time lurker here and I feel horrible that spot-on felt as though she had to leave! I really don't think that she had a choice, but rather the recent comments on this board made her feel so uncomfortable that leaving was a form of self-preservation.

Also, not to put you on the spot Karategrrl, but this comment really got to me: "I feel bad that spot-on is leaving the forum but since it's a small breast support forum, well, I understand." This implies that spot-on would not have been able to cheer on/support/empathize with other women who were happy with/struggling with breast body issues just because her breast size changed. I don't think that it is mandatory that someone have small breasts at this exact moment to be able to relate to many of the stories shared on this board. What about the woman who developed breasts in her 20's but still carries around negative feelings about having small breasts because she was teased throughout high school (this is me by the way)? What about the woman who had small breasts all of her life until a sudden weight gain and then her breasts also became larger. Internal feelings do not always change just because the exterior does. Moreover, even if spot-on's internal feelings did change as a result of exterior change, I think that she should have been given more credit (as a long time poster) that she would not have tromped all over the feelings of others.

I know my opinion is meaningless, but, uh, THIS. Really well done.

That being said however, more news today on the link between implants & a rare cancer.

[coffeebean]

I have been a long time lurker here and I feel horrible that spot-on felt as though she had to leave! I really don't think that she had a choice, but rather the recent comments on this board made her feel so uncomfortable that leaving was a form of self-preservation.

Also, not to put you on the spot Karategrrl, but this comment really got to me: "I feel bad that spot-on is leaving the forum but since it's a small breast support forum, well, I understand." This implies that spot-on would not have been able to cheer on/support/empathize with other women who were happy with/struggling with breast body issues just because her breast size changed. I don't think that it is mandatory that someone have small breasts at this exact moment to be able to relate to many of the stories shared on this board. What about the woman who developed breasts in her 20's but still carries around negative feelings about having small breasts because she was teased throughout high school (this is me by the way)? What about the woman who had small breasts all of her life until a sudden weight gain and then her breasts also became larger. Internal feelings do not always change just because the exterior does. Moreover, even if spot-on's internal feelings did change as a result of exterior change, I think that she should have been given more credit (as a long time poster) that she would not have tromped all over the feelings of others.

[discowombat]

Random thought, but I watched the Swedish version of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo movie and Noomi Rapace is smoking hot and a total badass in it. She has small breasts but the character she plays is clearly comfortable with her body.

[strongirl]

I agree with y'all. I really admire Spot-on for her intelligence, honesty, and generosity and I will miss her posts. (And Spot-on, I also think it'd be lovely if you decide to pop in now and again to share.) At the same time, the purpose of this thread is to celebrate the positive experiences of life with small breasts and to support each other through the negative experiences. Post-implants, there's not much we can offer her and vice versa.

And I so agree with you, Karategrrl, about how awesome this place is - that is the real reason I continue to read and post here. Somehow, it has attracted an absolutely amazing bunch of women who are not just smart but wise. The insights go far beyond body issues and into social dynamics, relationships, and just plain how to live life well. I've been deeply moved by the things that folks in here have dealt with and impressed by the level of intelligence and just plain good-heartedness. I honestly don't think about boobs that much and truly do love and enjoy mine, but I keep coming here because you all are just so freaking cool!!!

I really liked that article, Karategrrl - and I think there are lots of men who think that way, they just need more encouragement to speak up.

nbdx, so much is going on in here but I don't want to miss commenting on your post below. I thought the way you addressed Spot-on was very graceful and sensitive. I admired the way you handled that. And the same in your perspective on your mom. You are coming from a high place, and your balance and dignity shows.

[karategrrl]

It was weird because for awhile it felt like we were celebrating plastic surgery. And I was like, "noooooooo not in the small boobie forum!"

Me too. I was hoping this forum wasn't going to go too far from small boob support. I wasn't thrilled at first, but I'm really glad she shared. I've never known anyone I was close enough to who had it done, and I guess here there's a certain amount of privacy--I mean, she sent before and after photos when I asked, and answered any and all questions we all asked. So I must say I learned a lot. But she never pushed any of it on any of us, never said any of us should do it--she just spoke purely from her own experience. And, considering a lot of our own anti-implant feelings, I think we all kept it very civil and surprisingly supportive. That's why I love you guys.

And I have to say I posted, on Facebook, that article DJ shared. Not ONE person commented. Of note was that I posted, right after it, something unrelated that was kind of stupid-funny, and of course, I got 4 "Likes." I've given up on FB for anything remotely intellectual. I'll get that here.

[KeraBear]

Awww, it's too bad that Spot-on decided to leave. Actually I am really surprised that things didn't turn "ugly" earlier. Actually, if you take out the miscommunication between Spot on and nbdx, things were seemed pretty civil for the most part. But it was pretty inevitable that some of the anti-implant feelings would surface once again - based on past conversations about it anyways. It was weird because for awhile it felt like we were celebrating plastic surgery. And I was like, "noooooooo not in the small boobie forum!" ha ha

Spot-on, thank you again for being so willing to be open and honest about your experience. I did find it all quite intriguing. Feel free to poke in here every now and then even though you are not officially in the "club" anymore.

[karategrrl]

Heh heh, interesting "befores" and "afters" here:

Worst of Photoshop

[karategrrl]

OMG DJ, Thank you for that link! Amazing article by a man who <gasp> GETS IT.

(And thanks for helping me rediscover the Good Men Project!)

[karategrrl]

for some of us, that may be surgery, for others, it may be an erect middle finger at society, and for others still, a zen acceptance of the world and ourselves, as flawed.

LOVE IT!!! Welcome back! We've missed you!

What synchroniciity, DJ!!! I was just thinking about you the other day and wondering where the hell you've been!!!!!!!!!!! Warm small-booby hugs to you!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I too have to say I do feel betrayed when others choose surgery. And yeah again--I could never undergo that myself but if there was a pill or something safe, easy, and didn't stand me on the road to future additonal surgeries, I'd probably do it.

I feel bad that spot-on is leaving the forum but since it's a small breast support forum, well, I understand.

I have to say, too, that I've listened to some breast enlargement hypnotherapy and though I can't vouch for the effectiveness (I've not been disciplined and doing it even half as often as you are supposed to), I have to say it has, ironically, been great for me loving what I have. Like, instead of feeling like I want them bigger and THEN I'd love them, my mind shift is now more like, I send them love and since I love them so much, I just want MORE of them. If that makes any sense.