[edie52]

Speaking of which, don't you just get the biggest laugh at those TV segments and magazine articles about how to put a bra on properly: "With the bra straps over your shoulders, bend over, letting your breasts dangle. Center your breasts in the bra cups, hook it in the back, stand up, and adjust your breasts again anywhere they might be spilling out." Yeah, right.

LOL! Yes. I'm so glad there are ladies out there who share my feelings and experiences when it comes to this stuff.

[karategrrl]

Hi everyone!

I had to check back in with you all and see what's up. I've been thinking of you ladies lately. I've been working out like a fiend, shedding a little weight I had gained. I've been really getting into it, hitting the weights too, feeling great, getting strong & muscular. Of course, though, I swear my tiny breasts have gotten even smaller. Couple that with the fact that there just aren't (to my knowledge) any lightly padded workout bras (like the lightly padded regular bras I wear to work to hide my highbeams). I am almost shocked looking at myself in the mirror at the gym--like, "Who is that flat-chested girl?"

So I was working out tonight, feeling great about the rest of my bod but annoyed about my chest. On the TV in there was one of those celebrity shows. Within like 5 minutes of each other were features about Keira Knightley's racy pictures in Interview mag, and Charlize Theron--both of whom looked gorgeous (and also both of whom have teeny chests like me). I have to say it's not like they reported, "Look at Keira Knightley...she'd look hot if only she had breasts!" They just commented that she's hot and moved on. It was shockingly refreshing.

So I'm having kinda mixed feelings tonight--liking my new bod, not liking my even smaller tits, liking the fact that there are implant-free, small-breasted hotties out there strutting their stuff shamelessly, yet I'm so totally PO'ed that I seem to be the only woman in all of creation who went on birth control pills and did NOT experience breast growth as a "side effect." (I did Internet research on my birth control and found comments from others who'd gone on it...several women mentioned the breast growth. One mentioned going from an A to C cup. God forbid that should happen to me...)

Oh, and last week I and the hubby were joking around about past lovers and how extremely large breasts are hard to deal with in sexual situations (Not to knock any large-busted ladies who may be reading.) But I was laughing about how I'd fooled around with this very large-breasted woman and, being used to very small breasts, I was totally preplexed at what to actually DO with them. Well, the hubby had to one-up me, of course, and said he's had large breasts in his hands, mouth, had his dick between them... and then said, "And now I have you, and that's all I need," but then of course I have this image of him in my head titty-fucking someone, knowing full well he could never do that with me. *Sniff*

I went to a holiday party last week. The hostess was wearing one of those little camisole tops with the shelf bra--the kind that makes me look so totally flat. She had this cleavage line between her breasts. Just once in my life, I think I'd like to know what that's like. *Sigh.* I wonder what it's like to feel some weight there, to actually have something to put into a bra...heck, to be able to FIND decent bras! Speaking of which, don't you just get the biggest laugh at those TV segments and magazine articles about how to put a bra on properly: "With the bra straps over your shoulders, bend over, letting your breasts dangle. Center your breasts in the bra cups, hook it in the back, stand up, and adjust your breasts again anywhere they might be spilling out." Yeah, right.

Sorry guys, guess I'm just rambling tonight. Send me some breast lovin' if you can. Trying to feel confident, but feeling a bit down.

[knorl05]

dj biz: you are the absolute coolest. period.
i love what your mom said, about our subconscious mind vs our logical minds. because so much of who we are rests within our subconscious minds that we're not even aware of until we bring it to light. and then once we realize that 'hey this entirely negative thought i have about myself, simply isnt true'.. we're then able to replace it with a healthier, and more accurate belief. same is the case for our desirability (which can translate to our self worth) being dependent upon one aspect of our female bodies. thinking that we have to prove our attractiveness because we are built differently than those with a more idealized form, is, or can be, a waste of time and energy. something that i'm not ashamed to say i have done through the years. i just think it's unfortunate that all these less-thoughtful beliefs seem to influence and affect our own simply because they've been widely accepted. different value systems is all i would say.. what do you think?

[dj-bizmonkey]

awww, knorl!! *blushes* i'm just happy there's a like-minded soul (i.e. you darlink! ) out there in the world. i want to revive this thread, but i don't know quite how. i guess we haven't had any new-comers lately and that tends to slow things down.

[knorl05]

dj biz is my favoritest! just had to say that... will reply more laters. :-D

[dj-bizmonkey]

indeed knorl, easier said that done.....hmmm.....i've had to think about this for awhile for i could respond. unless you live in a cave, under a rock somewhere i think it is close to impossible to not be exposed to negative images, stereotypes, what have you that are out there. exposure in and of itself is going to influence you whether you like it or not. but like all other negative concepts that we are innundated with through this medium (say, casual racism, sexism, xenophobia etc) we have to make a concerted and conscious effort to change our cognitive pathways. my mom (the shrink) has always chastized me for saying negative things outloud or just in my head. she always said, 'yes, your logical mind understand that isn't true (e.g. i'm whore, i'm fat, i'm stupid, i'm undeserving, you name it) but your subconcious mind hears it and doesn't not how to discern what is a true perception and what is a distortion.' in that way i think we have control over how we feel about our bodies regardless of the media influence. and i completely agree, that power is what makes us amazing individuals.

[knorl05]

so you know. i think there comes a time when we have to realize that these feelings we have about our bodies and whatnot are our feelings about our bodies. i mean yes we are entirely influenced by the media and society and all of that... but really there are a ton of misconceptions and inaccuracies in those arenas that we just have to be able to disregard. because if we dont, then we're not really liberated from it all. i mean shit easier said than done i realize. but i think that's what gives us our strength and individuality. and imo i think those are amazing things.

[starship]

not sure if anyones posted this yet, but you should all have a look around this site...
http://www.007b.com/breast_gallery.php

[crankyrobot]

i love that someone made this thread.

i really wish we could somehow demolish the media's breast infatuation. the only place where small breasts fit (no pun intended) is in the same industry that perpetuates eating disorders in young women!!

[dj-bizmonkey]

aw shucks, *blushes* thanks karategrrl!

[karategrrl]

DJ, you have an amazing figure!

[dj-bizmonkey]

knorl, i totally agree!

lotus, i finally got around to looking at that page and i found it really interesting. i also enjoyed reading the other stories about breasts, they really spanned the whole spectrum.

karategrrl, yeah, i feel like yoga is one of those types of settings where you have to be comfortable with your body and there isn't alot of judgement. strangely enough, i got the same feeling from my ballet classes in undergrad. ballet is often associated with alot of body image issues, but my teacher was
so fantastic and the class had women of all shapes and sizes. on the first day she told us to go home, look good and long at our bodies in the mirror and get used to them, because there was no use trying to cover up in a class about movement and shape. my avatar photo is from a 'celebrity' themed party and i dressed up as j-lo. i'm wearing a one piece denim pant suit that buttoned up the front. utterly fantastic.

[karategrrl]

Knorl, great points you made!

DJ, can't wait to hear about the avatar. Looks like someone is swatting yer heiny.

[knorl05]

karategrrl: i think the reason women are so judgemental of other women's bodies is the whole comparison thing... "i'm ok, you're not ok". if all women are seen as beautiful to the general public then the shallow, less sensitive and intellectually impaired women would have nothing to make them feel superior. they would have nothing to give them confidence. it could just simply be, that we are conditioned to be this way and that most women dont have the insight to realize it's counterproductive and a waste of time. even those of us who do have the insight, still struggle with the way we allow our bodies to influence our self worth. it's a difficult battle, one that i hope most women find a way to break free of to really know their true potential.

[dj-bizmonkey]

it is me, *wink*. gotta get back to work now, promise to post something this evening....

[karategrrl]

Hey DJ, I wonder if you would mind explaining your avatar photo? I've been wondering for awhile. Is that you in the jeans, you bootylicious babe?

Knorl, that IS a great essay...and oh, how I can relate! I vaguely seem to remember a similar personal experience!

I agree with the general discussion of late...why can't we all just accept each others' bods?? I swear, one of my best life experiences was going through a long teacher training at a yoga center. One night, several of us from the group all ended up in the steamy jacuzzi, naked, and I remember looking around and being awed by the huge variety of bodies there were among us--heavy, thin, large-breasted, small-breasted, dark, light--and especially how freaking BEAUTIFUL we all were, each in our OWN way. I will never forget that.

[edie52]

Yeah, it used to bother me a lot that Calista Flockhart got criticized so much. I was a fan of Ally McBeal as a teenager (I related to her romantic idealism) and liked that she was so small-busted and thin, and was still referred to as beautiful in the context of the show. And I remember getting excited when I'd see red carpet shots of her, thinking "she looks like me!", only to read scathing criticisms of her body. It's one thing if she really did need help (I don't remember if that was the case, I do know that she was very thin, but I eat healthy big portions and am not *that* active and am still thin, if I were busy and stressed I know that pounds would just drop).

Portia de Rossi was another small-breasted lady on that show, and I remember her being referred to as an "exotic beauty." And I love her as Lindsay on Arrested Development.

[anna k]

i am not a skinny-mini by any means (nice assonance there) but i have alot of friends who are, and they are always getting bashed by other women and being accused of having eating disorders. it's ridiculous to me. it's your fucking genetics, and if there is one thing you can't fight, it's your DNA. i have no problem with skinny women. what i have a problem with is medium to larger sized women thinking they have to be the same size as some one who is naturally that way and then do very unnatural things in order to achieve that.

I hate that too, that thin women would be assumed to not eat or that they'll get fat later, like being thin is a youthful temporary thing, or some kind of hatred/jealousy towards thin women. I was thin as a kid, but developed early into a voluptuous figure, and won't ever be wiry or really slim. And I'm fine with it. My genetics did seem funny since my mother and my grandma are both thin women, but it really is a combination of genetics and health. I watched a TV special on Heather Locklear where her castmates said she loved eating junk food, but was naturally thin and athletic (her SoCal upbringing may have added to that). I never understood the public criticism of Calista Flockhart, who looked like a naturally small-boned, thin woman. I saw her at a performance of The Vagina Monologues and thought that she looked fine.

My sister and I are on opposite sides of breast size. She is an A cup, while I'm a triple-D. It's ridiculous how even with the same parents, our breasts are really different.

I like it when women in movies display small breasts in an assertive, sexy way. Linda Fiorentino in The Last Seduction is a great example. Or watching Famke Jaansen in Rounders. I don't feel jealousy, I just admire them. Hell, just flip through British Vogue for vintage pics of Jane Birkin and Charlotte Rampling or recent photos of Kate Moss and Sienna Miller.

I don't mind changing in front of other women. I took ballet for several months, and the class was a beginner's full of people of varied ages and experiences, and I liked the female communal feel in the changing room between thin muscular girls who have done ballet for years, old women who did it as a pastime, and curvier women. We were all feeling good and refreshed after an hour of dancing, and it felt nice for me to be around other women changing. I did like to sneak peeks at other women, because I like seeing different bodies.

[dj-bizmonkey]

hey all, haven't read the essay yet, though it is on my to do list. i should be studying for my human variation class right now, but i needed a little distraction from it all.

not to double derail, but i think the point that lotus and knorl made is actually really valid. even though our focus here is breasts, it connects to the broader ideas about body image and beauty. it's just plain reprehensible to be criticizing one another on the basis of our bodies (and i'm not trying to guilt you here karategrrl, i would want to bash everything about that bitch too). i am not a skinny-mini by any means (nice assonance there) but i have alot of friends who are, and they are always getting bashed by other women and being accused of having eating disorders. it's ridiculous to me. it's your fucking genetics, and if there is one thing you can't fight, it's your DNA. i have no problem with skinny women. what i have a problem with is medium to larger sized women thinking they have to be the same size as some one who is naturally that way and then do very unnatural things in order to achieve that.

ANYWAY, yes, i like the idea of a social aptitude test before entering a locker room. as in, 'you must be at least this self-realized to enter....' getting back to the whole body image idea, i think it must be equally difficult for overweight women to change at the gym as well, especially when you consider alot of the people who are changing around them. i empathize with those women so much, the ones who feel like they have to cower in the corner because they've got a mushroom top poking out over their jeans. i mean, at least they've made a positive choice in their lives to get healthy, and that's what it should be all about: achieving what is best for your body. like i said, you can't fight genetics, if you were born to be a bean pole your probably not going to end up looking like beyonce. and for me, my thighs have always touched, and i mean always, since i was 4 years old. that's not going to change, that's my anatomy. when it comes to our bodies, we should stress being HEALTHY and not unnaturally thin for our body type.

sorry for the off topic rant, but i do think it all interconnects.

i am thankful for this forum, as i have said many many times, but i can't say it enough.

[crinoline]

Lotus- I LOVED that essay!!! Thank you for sharing it with us!

(((karategrrl))) - There should be some sort of social aptitude test people are forced to take before being allowed in a locker room. Geesh.