[auralpoison]

Goals. ARGH! I gave a up a really great guy once because we didn't have the same goals. We were both 26 & he wanted to get married & start a family after two years together. And that's not what I wanted. Not because we were too young, or he was the wrong guy or that we'd be bad parents. I simply have no desire to sprout crotchfruit (Nor can I, health issues. My womb is like the Sahara.) or have the state approve my 'ship. I expressed this as carefully & kindly as I could & we talked about it. He thought I'd change my mind, I told him that wasn't going to happen. He held out hope, though & I eventually broke his heart. Twenty bones says that right now he has a lovely wife & wee bairns. And I think that's great.

And most young parents are shite. You can read as many books as you like, but when faced with the real thing it can be daunting. I raised three kids as a nanny & even with training it is trial by error/fire. When my friends started having kids I was horrified by some of the choices they made, but since I don't actually have kids of my own I held my tongue. They always say that people that don't have children are always experts because they don't deal with the day to day realities of being responsible for another life.

Besides, isn't it every parent's job to fuck up their kids? I mean, introduce me somebody that wasn't fucked up by their parents & I'll introduce you to somebody that has lived a hermetically sealed life. (Which is fucked up in itself.) Their goal is to fuck us up *just* enough that we can function in "normal" society, but not so much that we turn into Charles Manson.

ETA, I forgot that I came in here for a reason! I've never done a LDR like this. I miss him SOOOO much. Seeing him once a month just isn't enough. We talk, we IM, we send each other little gifts. But I don't expect to be out of here until Jan '09. That's eight months of not being able to just reach over & grab him & molest him. I now regret not sucking it up more when we tried to live together. I'd give up everything for him to be under my feet & driving me crazy again.

[LoveMyPugs]

to clear up my previous post which i'm sure was confusing (it came from my head so why wouldn't it be). i would be prepared to not have children if he decided for sure that he didn't want them.

[bunnyb]

I don't think he would take something like motherhood away from me because he has reservations. We, the both of us, will come to some sort of decision about this in our future. I'm not going to leave him if he doesn't want to have kids and I don't think he'd leave me if I had my heart set on a baby.

*de-lurks*

pugs, from somebody who has had to come to terms over the last year with the fact that her significant other doesn't want to have children, let me tell you that I know how you're feeling and I can imagine some of the things that are going through your head just now. However, the above part of your post set alarm bells ringing for me. A lot of what you say is positive and, yes, if you love one another then most of the time everything else is surmountable but to have children or not is quite the deal breaker. I'm not trying to make this a big issue for you or say that you should split up just because you currently feel differently because that may all change in a few years and it may all be hypothetical anyway but what do you mean by "I don't think he would take something like motherhood away from me" and "I don't think he'd leave me if I had my heart set on a baby"? If Mr Pugs (and let us pretend he doesn't post here because I don't want to put words in his mouth or presuppose his actions) does decide that he doesn't want children then do you still expect him to go ahead and raise children because that's what you want? To a certain extent I can see where you are coming from but from what you have said it sounds as if you are saying that you wouldn't leave him if he didn't want children -making a conscious choice on your part not to have children- but that he wouldn't leave you if you did, which would mean that he would be having children that he didn't want (initially or for the length of his/their lives). Do you see my point? There is a huge difference between deciding not to have children because that's what your partner wants and deciding to have a child because that's what your partner wants, the latter involving another life. I know this is a huge, heartbreaking potentiality and I know how difficult it is to give up a dream that you have always had, to even contemplate doing so, but I'm concerned for you and I think you need to evaluate your feelings. Yes, this may all be a moot point and Mr Pugs' reservations may fade but I think you should prepare yourself for them not. I don't want to scaremonger you but I've been there and for a few years I thought that the boy would change his mind when he was older (and hey he may still) but in the last year he was really straight with me and said that I had to prepare myself for his feelings not changing. That was huge for me and I struggled with a lot of ambivalent emotions but, in the end, choosing between the man I love and having potential children wasn't a choice at all; at first I thought I was sacrificing motherhood for him but I realised that I couldn't view it on those terms and that it was actually a road we were travelling down together, I just had to choose whether to go with him or go on my own path.

[beck]

What will we do? I have no idea but we still have plenty of time to decide. It's not a race right? I'm only 26 and he's 28. We'll figure it out eventually. We love each other and that's all that matters.

pugs i think you are absolutely right, i had always wanted kids and to be a mother, and at first when we started discussing it, my bf was kind of ambivalent - i think we had both sort of taken it for granted that we would, and moving from that to actually thinking it through seriously felt quite scary. I remember when he was musing over whether he actually wanted kids being really freaked out, but trying not to show it. It felt like a total curveball. My instinct was to totally freak out and start setting ultimatums and stuff, but i resisted the urge and just shelved the issue.

It wasn't long after that (maybe a year?) that we actually started trying for a baby, and it really was a decision we came to together, and he is really excited and supportive now i'm knocked up. i think he just needed the time and space to process it by himself rather than just fall into something that momentous without really thinking it through first.

In fact, without sounding too calculating, while i tend to have quite fixed ideas about things, i often find it is more effective to raise something and then leave it be - rather than backing him into a corner and putting him on the defensive, it gives him the space to come to a decision by himself. Not that i always live up to this aim, but when i do, it's good!

[LoveMyPugs]

Has anyone else gone through communication problems, any tips for maintaining good communication? I know it seems like the bleeding obvious, what could be harder than talking? … so I appreciate your advice.

I think when Mr. Pugs and I were having "communication problems" it was most of the time MY problem. I mean Mr. Pugs will sit down and talk about something but really for only about 20 minutes max. I try to say what I think is important to me and I let him say what he needs to say and if we don't agree I try to let it go and if we agree then I feel good about it and again let it go.

For example, we were talking about having or not having children in our future. We had always said we wanted children. I have always wanted children. Many of our friends have or are getting ready to have children. This being the situation we have been spending a lot more time around children. Many of our friends are really bad parents. They are way to young and IMO and Mr. Pug's opinion they have made a lot of mistakes. I think with Mr. Pugs seeing this it has really scared him and made him uneasy about someday having children. I mean he hasn't said, "No, I don't want children." but it seems to me that is the path he is starting to go down. This bothers me deeply. I want at least one child. I always have. I thought he did as well. Now his mind set seems to be changing because he is seeing all of our friends fucking up as parents. So of course him telling me this just really upset me. I mean I just wanted to cry right there in the car as we were driving. As I was talking and trying to get into his head to figure out why he feels this way I could see him just pulling back. I mean he was all "focused on the road" and listening to the music. He'd stopped nodding at my comments and responding about ten minutes before and here I was just talking away. I actually stopped and said, "Are you tired of this conversation?"

He said, "Yeah, pretty much."

So I just summed up with, "So this isn't you saying you don't want children. This is you saying that you have some reservations and we'll see what happens in the future right?" He said yes and I dropped it. I desperately wanted to keep probing and discussing but it would have turned into an arguement. It's still really bothering me but he loves me and I don't think he would take something like motherhood away from me because he has reservations. We, the both of us, will come to some sort of decision about this in our future. I'm not going to leave him if he doesn't want to have kids and I don't think he'd leave me if I had my heart set on a baby. What will we do? I have no idea but we still have plenty of time to decide. It's not a race right? I'm only 26 and he's 28. We'll figure it out eventually. We love each other and that's all that matters.

[chickenlittle]

kittenb, i think it's super important to have your own stuff going on, and to have ME time as well. I know it's important for me and for my relationship and yet it's somehow something that I have to continually remind myself to do. A friend pointed out recently that no decisions need to be made at the time of the issue- so your decision to see what happens is a good one, I think. Be sure to take care of yourself in all this; it's easy for that to get lost.

[kittenb]

Thanks star. His ambivalence is a huge sign. That is what started the whole conversation. That and the realization that I was giving way more than was asked for and making myself very unhappy while doing it.

Right now I am just wanting to step back a little. We have some upcoming plans which I am excited about but I need more time with myself as well.

I guess I will see what happens.

[stargazer]

I need a man who actually wants me in his life and he needs to decide if he wants to be that person.

well kittenb, if you feel a man is not treating you the way you feel you should be treated, then i think you need to think about if this dude is someone you want to be with right now. i'm sure he is a good guy, but if you are not feeling it, then you can't make it be that way. and the goal shouldn't be meeting his parents. which i know it is not for you. it seems like his ambivalence is a big sign. 6 months seems like more than enough time.

hope this helps. (((kittenb)))

[kittenb]

{{{specialk}}} I wish I had a great response but I really don't know. Sorry.
{{{deschatrouge}}} I have to support the idea of couples counseling. Maybe it wouldn't have to be a long term type thing. It could be that a few sessions will help you both get to the root of the problem. Good luck.

I have kind of a story that I wanted to share. As I have mentioned here, I am bothered by the fact that I haven't met my boyfriend's parents. Next week, it will have been 7 months that we've been together and his folks live about 20 minutes away from my place by bus. However, I kind of let that particular issue drop, figuring, "his parents, his decision." I have, however, made the connection b/w his (admitted) reluctance to introducing us and a few other things that have been upsetting me lately. Such as his resistance to celebrating our six-month anniversary even though we both agreed to and the fact that he never compliments me about my apperance. I swear, it is getting to the point that I was wondering if he thought I was at all attractive to him.

So, this all kind of came to a head this week. He admitted that even though we had talked about it he really didn't want to celebrate our anniversary. It wasn't a big deal to him. I told him that it was important to me and I would like him to appreciate that fact. After thinking bout it for a few days I wrote him and email explaing what my fear were. Did the fact that he never complimented me and seemed to get a little tense if I tried to make actual plans with him (as opposed to saying "Someday we should...") mean that he was ready to end things or something. He responded that he still doesn't know what he feels about me. Is he in love with me? Does he think that he ever will be in love with me? He felt that if he complimented me or agreed to make a big deal about the anniversary it would give me false hope about things that he just doesn't know. I kind of called bullshit on that argument, pointing out that wether we celebrate it or not, we have been together over 6 months and all I was asking for was a nice dinner not a dimond ring and a promise of forever. As for the compliments thing, he said he would try harder because his reason for holding back was his own issues about us.

Last night we went to a b-day party for a friend of his. I kind of went into the night annoyed with him and seriously wondering where my end line was going to be. I almost hit it when we met up and I told him he looked nice and he just said, "Thanks." No comment on how I was looking even though I had spent some time getting ready and I looked really good! I had a good time at the party but I wasn't in the mood to be sweet and cuddly with him. My body language was cutting him off. Even though I swear I wasn't doing it for any reason but because I was annoyed, he found all of that annoyingly appealing and he started being really cuddly with me. So I warmed up to him. Then at the end of the party he unintentionally said something that really hurt my feelings. I waited till we got home to let it all out. And it all came out.

I have no idea what will happen next. We were better this morning and I was too tired to talk about anything. I want some time and space from all of this. I was very clear that some of the behavior was the kind of stuff that I wasn't sure if I could live with on a long-term basis. We have some upcoming plans and then after that, well I guess we will see. I need a man who actually wants me in his life and he needs to decide if he wants to be that person.

Now, in the interest of proving the gods' have a sense of humor, after he left today I heard his cell phone ring. When I found it I recognized the name on his screen as his mom's. I answered, assuming it was him calling to locate his phone. It was his mom, calling to let her sons know she was going to be late for Mother's Day brunch. The last thing she said to me was, "I hope we get to meet soon!"

Ah, irony.

Sorry for the book that I have written here.

[sybarite]

Special k, the short answer is communicating well with your other half takes time and a lot of practice. Even now the mr and I still duck talking about things that are bothering us, and then they build up so that when we do eventually address issues we get emotional or angry. For starters, I guess I'd suggest being aware of how you're communicating and try and catch yourself when your impulse is to hold back or let an opening pass.

I was/am broadly similar to how you describe yourself; I'm pretty private and like to mull things over. The mr is also reserved and feels we Americans can over-talk things (he may be right, but the two of us sure aren't guilty of this ) I can still feel very vulnerable when I'm trying to bring up something really important to me, for instance.

However, over time and with practice communication gets better, not least because you begin to know each other more and have an idea of how the other might respond. Ultimately though, all you can ever do is speak as honestly as you can from your perspective; if you need to repeat yourself or have what feels like the same discussion over and over, well, whatever works.

I doubt this is much help; suffice to say I do empathise.

[special k]

I think low libido is a really tough problem, and one I was in a while ago. My libido had crashed with my ex, there was almost nothing he could do to fix it at the end. I felt like I just needed my own personal space. In truth, it was mostly problems outside of the bedroom that led to it, and what I now realise is my inability to communicate how I really felt about myself and our relationship. Not a good way to be, and was something I wasn’t aware of doing, it ended up killing our relationship. I left him but felt ashamed for letting it deteriorate to the point where I was no longer in love with him and saw myself on a different path to him, The most painful thing about leaving was having to break his heart, because I still cared about him deeply. Rose has good advice.

I guess there's some connection to what I came to ask... I’m going through a process of improving communication with my man at the moment. I’m the one with the problems, not him (so it's not just guys with this issue). I’m pretty certain it contributed significantly to the downfall of my last long term relationship, I just wasn’t aware of it. It seems to be this fairly straightforward thing that you assume you’re doing, but it’s far from the truth. Everytime we get to spend some time together (we’re 10 months now but all long-distance) it’s very intense and physical. I have never been an extrovert and am generally pretty shy and quiet, and I should be able to relax and not have those fears around him, right?. But to him I’m not really 'being myself', he feels like a shut him off and become distant. It’s been hard because he doesn’t like having to point it out to me, and I get upset because it ends up sounding like I don’t care or aren’t interested. We love each other and want this relationship to continue, and I think after the last time it came up, something clicked and I have a better idea of the things he wants from me. But it’s still something habitual (to keep my thoughts to myself) so it’s really hard work at the moment, but not without cause or benefit! I’m actually getting nervous about seeing him again because I want to see if I’m ‘better’. I want to improve this, not just for our relationship but to help myself as well. Especially because we’re going to be apart for another few months (he’s moving further away overseas) and then in each other’s pockets (I’m hoping to join him as soon as I get work), and we both really want this to work.

Has anyone else gone through communication problems, any tips for maintaining good communication? I know it seems like the bleeding obvious, what could be harder than talking? … so I appreciate your advice.

[stargazer]

(((deschatsrouge))) sorry to hear things are rough in your relationship. my exgf and i hit the lesbian death bed towards the end of our relationship. it has alot to do with the ending of our relationship....i was just done. our problems were reflected in our sex life...or lack thereof. i think rose bring up a great point about couples therapy or individual therapy.

[roseviolet]

DesChatsRouge, sounds like you and AAGirl have a lot in common.

It's true that she may not care about finding out what the problem is. However, there's also a chance that she's afraid to find out what the problem is. A low or non-existent libido is NOT fixed easily. It takes a lot of time and effort and the stress she's already feeling is bound to get worse and worse as she works through this. That's true whether the low libido is tied to a medical or mental or issue. It's far from fun. Even with all of that work, that doesn't always make things better. Her libido may never fully recover.

I remember back when my ex and I used to argue because my libido had all but disappeared. I had some medical problems involving my reproductive system, but I had problems with depression, too (and top that off with communication problems within our relationship). My ex would try to get me to come around by asking me about my sexual fantasies. Well, I didn't have any. Sex wasn't a part of my day-to-day thoughts. He would then feel frustrated and angry with me, which just made me feel like more of a freak. His attempts to arrouse me just pointed out over and over again how weird and fucked up I was. When he got angry for me for not even fantasizing, I felt as though he may as well have been angry at me for not thinking about rainbow-striped zebras. How could I possibly help it if my mind didn't spontaneously think about rainbow-striped zebras all on its own? It just didn't! And in the same way, sexual fantasies just never popped into my imagination.

All of this is to say that a low libido affects a person on a very very very deep level ... usually an unconscious level. The very idea of addressing an issue that deep is terrifying for most people.

Now, does that mean that she should ignore this? No. Because it could be tied to a physical illness that needs attention or extreme stress that could lead to dangerous depression or any number of other things. But the bottom line is that it's still her life and it's her body and there's no way to address this until she's ready to deal with it.

So you can encourage her to go to a doctor (and be super duper supportive through it all). Or you can ask her to go to counseling with you. Or you can be like AAGirl and start going to therapy on your own & hope she'll join you someday. Or you can accept her as she is and find other solutions to keep you sexually satisfied. Or you can do something else. I wish it were easier than this - believe me, I do. It isn't easy for anyone involved.

[deschatsrouge]

*Cross posted form LTAS*

I need to rant, and if anyone can give me advice, I'll take it.

The Missus and I have been going through a dry spell. I ask her why she doesn't want to have sex and she just shrugs. So tonight I lose it, because I have just been turned down for the umpteenth time. I'm glad she doesn't force herself and I'm glad she can say no. She doesn't seem to care however to find out the reason for not wanting to have sex. The big problem comes when I become humiliated for being rejected and if I act disappointed she feels guilty. So, I have to hold in the rejection, frustration, and resentment to save her feelings. If I show any of those emotions I end up feeling like an asshole who is trying to guilt her into having sex with me, which is not what I want to do. Frankly, I'd rather be lonely than feel like an asshole. Right now I just want to go apartment hunting.

this makes me think of lesbian bed death. I'm just wondering if this is the beginning of the end.

[p_176]

maybe it's thyroid. i have no idea. my office is generally warm, but there are times where i'm warm (sweaty), and folks sitting near me are complaining it's chilly. ugh. i'll see the dr tomorrow for my annual; i'll let you know what happens.

[roseviolet]

p_176, it sounds to me like it would be worthwhile if your doctor did a lot more than just put you on birth control. If you feel like there's womething else going on and you need further testing, fight for it. Find a different gynecologist if you have to. I'm serious. A decade ago I had some health problems and I knew in my gut that my doctor wasn't taking me seriously. Luckily, I found another doctor who listened to me and with his help, I got a diagnosis and proper treatment. I'm 1000 times better now than I was then. Not perfect, but much better.

[p_176]

deleted

[LoveMyPugs]

p_176

girl my pms is so hard on our relationship as well. I'm going through it right now and it sucks. I feel actual rage. Mr. Pugs just acts like his normal self but everything he does drives me insane. Today I called him an asshole flat out. Last night and last Friday I freaked out on two seperate occasions and he had to put my attitude in check in front of people. I was embarrased but to be honest both times he was absolutely right and I was just being a bitch.

Today I tried to put a lot of effort into getting my house clean. I find that if I spend all day doing nothing when I'm pmsing when he finally gets home I'm wrapped so tight that I sort of overwhelm him. So I just spent the last hour cleaning our bedroom. Now I have like four loads of laundry to fold. After that I'm going to cook dinner, clean the kitchen, bake our new neighboors a loaf of chocolate chip bread and then go to bed. I'm trying to stay busy and stay away from him because I know my mood swings are bad. I'm hoping he'll just sort of play playstation all night and stay away from me like I'm staying away from him. A kiss good night will do for me and neither of us will say or do anything we'll regret when my pms passes. I know all of this might sound a bit extreme but it's the only way I know how to deal with it. I hated being on birth control and I won't do that to myself again. So if it means us semi-ignoring each other for a week out of the month then so be it. Hey...it's keeps the peace right? RIGHT!!

Good luck,

Pugs

[p_176]

re: marriage stigmas - i totally agree. i watch those shows like, these couples are NOT couples that should be emulated because their level of communication is so horrible. obviously when a couple gets married and has children, time spent with the guys, or the girls, is limited - but it does not mean it has to stop! and it frustrates me that so many people think that being in a relationship means you lose everything else - not true!
how can we change this? <scratches head>

[chickenlittle]

themeiu, I am totally picking you what you're putting down. Yes. Roseviolet is right, too- I don't think wanting to get married equates to not being a feminist.

p_176, all my life up until I went on the pill I had completely irregular periods, too. One thing I love about being on the pill is that I know when I will next get my period. SO much less nerve-wracking! (though i still feel like there has GOT to be a better option. I hate the idea of the hormones I'm ingesting every month, for years on end.) And I am gunshy about making a plan for the future, too- even though these are things that I want. Just looking for some balance, argh!