[dj-bizmonkey]

gag me. "Dr" Laura has a PhD in physiology and she is full of shit. cry me a river, cheating men, no matter how dejected your partner makes you feel, you should take it up with her and not a prostitute.

[mandolyn]

i can't even finds the words to express how angry this makes me.

and if the fooking media "interview" any more "high paid call girls" or write any more "articles" about the "long-suffering wife standing by her man", i'm going to SCREAM. certainly with a scandal of this ironic magnitude, they can come up with actual facts and um, yeah .... news.

[erinjane]

Ugh, I know how that goes, greenbean. I'm trying to hard to stay out of that self deprecating mode, but sometimes when you're with other women it's really hard.

[i_am_jan]

greenbean: That has been a huge problem for me as well. I have accepted my body. Like, a long time ago. It's not going to change already. It's ignorant to go on and on and on and on. But yeah ~ if you don't go with the program, it's actually like, offensive? to some women. They sound like assholes. But they WANT YOU TO JOIN. For whatever selfish reason.

[greenbean]

I've been called 'slut' in jest by girlfriends, and for the most part it doesnt bother me..but once one of my friends told me in all seriousness, "I couldnt do what you do (meaning, have casual sex), *I'd* be too worried about diseases." Jeeze, like I work in a brothel or something!

Something that reeeaallly bugs me happened to me today: the expectation that as women we are supposed to hate our bodies. So, I was having lunch with a coworker and we were talking fashion and I brought up that I hate the current style of empire waist dresses. I have a small waist and wide rib cage, so the style works against me, and I was telling her I cant wait for more waist-hugging dresses to come back in vogue. Soon we were joined by another coworker, and the first one goes, "You should of just heard greenbean going on about her 'AWESOME waist'" and snickers as the other coworker looks at me like, 'oh, you think yer so hot?'. Gah! So I start defending myself like, "No, I just meant some styles look bad on me..cuz I'm flat-chested, and boyish, and, wide-ribbed!!!" Ugg, and then I realized how sad it was that I felt I had to BASH on my body in order to stay 'in' with these ladies. like it was high school again. Fuck that. I wish I said, "yeah, it IS awesome."

[ellievee]

whether the cause is jealousy, or feeling threatened, or being sexually repressed, or something else - it shouldn't happen! women should stick together. instead of saying "what a slut!" we should shout "you go girl!"

[i_am_jan]

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah...it's like "I got that O...you got ZERO..."

Not hard to calculate what the problem is!

I agree ~ It is absolutely my experience that people are threatened by someone who goes out and does her own thing. And is not afraid to seek out experiences SHE wants. (Rather than sitting by and meeting OTHERS' needs for them like a good little lady.)

The freedom of an independent woman invalidates the choices of the gals who have been timid, not taken responsibility for going after what they want, have acted in ways society deems acceptable for them.

Yep, yep!

Also, i believe women judging other womens' sexuality has historically been a WAY TO BE COMPETITIVE OVER THE SUPPLY OF MEN.

Mm hm. She calls you a slut to tarnish your name. But as soon as she gets a chance with that hottie, you think she wouldn't bag that?

She's simply out of touch with her own sexuality. WHAT A SHAME!

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Homophobes Protest Tolerance Policies (fancy link wouldn't work b/c of the commas): <BR> <BR>http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-na-christians10apr10,0,6596503.story <BR> <BR>

Is it wrong of me, that on first reading, I read that as "Homophobes Protest Tolerance Fairies"?

I wanna be a Tolerance Fairy!

[dj-bizmonkey]

ch, i second that emotion.

I think even beyond the whole madonna/whore dichotomy-double standard issue, that men and some women by default, are seriously threatened by a woman's sexuality. In fact, up until the 19th century, in Western culture (correct me if I am wrong, any feminist historians) the general consensus was that women were the more wanton and lascivious sex, not men. Women were thought be an inexorably sexual being who had to be guided and controlled otherwise they would sleep with anything in sight. The victorians did a 180 and turned the image of women into this symbol of virtue and the embodiment of the purity of the home (a sphere that women in many middle-eastern countries were already occupying). Women's sexuality is dangerous because it undermines the power of patriarichal men. I think it also has its roots in our evolutionary history, but I'm not going to delve deeply into that.

The fact remains that the general population is threatened by sexually liberated women because they undermine the ideal that the system of patriarchy has espoused for at least the last 200 years. In order to maintain control and power, it is necessary to debase and defame the women who do not fit the mold.

and secretly, i'm pretty sure the uptight, puritanicals who are so concerned with the integrity of the status quo, are jealous of all the fun we are having too.

[culturehandy]

In my experience, I have found that, on occasion, some people are threated by someone who goes out and does what they are want. they are threatened by the person who is independent and strong and what not. This is across the board. Seriously, think about the person who is doing two PhD's, someone somewhere will make an excuse about it, in terms that they will say cool, but they have no life because of the amount of work they have to do.

[neurotic.nelly]

If I may add to this convo, (mind you i am tipsy), is... big shit poppin' and lil' shit stoppin'!. I think it's fitting... I dunno...maybe I should stroll over to the inebriated ramblings thread...

But seriously, it is easy to be jealous of other women that are getting some when you aren't. But, as a woman, I can go out and get laid anytime I want, more easily than a man, now that doesn't mean that I will be fulfilled on an a deep level, but it does mean that I am busting one off. So, how can I be jealous? It's just a preference, I prefer not to go out and get fuck, or I prefer to go out and get fucked. So, why be jealous?

[culturehandy]

People are jealous they aren't getting fucked! I recall a time when I was banging this guy, and some people *thought* it may be true, suddenly I was getting trash talked. Oh, i should also mention that this was someone that many lusted after.

I'm not saying this is the case all the time, in some circumstances why not. People talk shit about those they are threatened by.

[i_am_jan]

I noticed that people make judgement calls out of jealousy.

Ha, yah baby! That's w'sup. because if you've got some action going on of your own, do you really have time to sit and think about that other gal's sex life over there? Nope. On the other hand, if you are in need of a RELEASE of some sort that you are not getting? that's usually when the judgey wudgey comes round with the little gavel.

[culturehandy]

Whaaaaaaaaaaat?

My virgin ears!

Oh if I get started I'll start to rant. It's much more fun to be the whore. I call me self a slut, whore bitch blah blah blah.

[crazyoldcatlady]

what, CH? you mean you don't want to pick sides in the age-old MADONNA versus WHORE battle??


gag.


but i have to say, slut, like bitch, has been reclaimed in my book. all my friends are some kick ass slutbags.

[culturehandy]

Ahhh the double standard. Men can have multiple partners, women characters on television can have multiple partners (i.e. Samanta Jones) but in real life there is still this emphasis on this puritan woman, yet she has to be a wild one in bed.

I'm also not shy about the nmber of partners I have, as are many women here, and I've come to the point that I'll do what I want, I don't care what others think. I noticed that people make judgement calls out of jealousy.

The double standard... I won't start to rant.

[ellievee]

i really hate to hear girls and women call other women 'sluts'. of course i hate to hear men do this, too, but when it's coming from a woman, directed at another woman, i just feel like this is the reason there has never been a universal 'feminist movement'.

if a woman feels sexually liberated (as all women should!) there's no shame at all in having many sexual partners, or participating in sexual 'taboos', etc. it doesn't make her a slut, it means she knows what she likes! she's confident in herself and her body to be powerful enough to explore and engage in sexual pleasures without being worried about having a 'bad reputation'.

i used to be worried about how many partners i've had, how many experiences i've had, having a bad reputation, etc...until i realised that i really didn't regret any of them! i feel powerful! i'm a sex kitten, and i'm okay with that!
...so why aren't other women?

[i_am_jan]

Okay???
!!

[nickclick]

good point nickclick. I think it's to keep us satisfied with less and keep men working toward more like good consumers.

good point jan! so much is sold to less-than-perfect guys to help them get a hot girl. think of every beer commercial. and so much is sold to women to make us hot to help us attract a man. but why in the hell would i want to attract the dolts in beer commercials?

[neurotic.nelly]

I try to keep certain parts of me unpolluted by other people and ideas. Sometimes i wonder what would be my idea of beauty or sex if i had never seen a movie or magazine? Then i become envious of the tribeswomen in foreign places, whose practices are so different than ours, and who don't have the media telling them what to be attracted to. I'm taking a Human Sexuality course and learned that on the island of Ponape, the man puts a fish in the women's vulva and gradually licks it out. And the Apinaye women in the Brazilian highlands bites of bits of their partner's eyebrows during sex! Strange, huh? I'm off the subject a bit, but the gist of what i'm saying is that it's very limiting to be exposed to the same tired ideas over and over when there is a whole world of culture out there and a broad range of body-types, practices, etc. to explore. I'll get off my soapbox for now, lol.

I hear you, and I love it! Yes! It's like mind control. We are all mind controlled by the media into believing this or that. If you believe it then you have to live it, you know. I say, miss me. I have my own ideas of what is hott, and beautiful.

I have a friend, and she is prolly like a size 22 or something, I am not sure, but she is about 200lbs or so. She loves going to Caribbean Islands b/c the men there just love her thickness! And in some indigenous cultures older women were lovers of young men to teach them how to be good lovers.