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> small breast support group - (I need it even if they don't)
neurotic.nelly
post Jun 9 2008, 07:16 PM
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pherber,Tthank you! for your post. I think we needed it here, everything you wrote is so right on! Thank you for the reality check!!!

As far as showing off our assets whatever they maybe as women, you say,
"If this is considered desperate attention seeking, you might as well get the burkas out." I think that women are controlled/oppressed in two ways, one way is to suppress, oppress, and control the feminine body completely i.e. burkas and the other is to completely expose, objectify, and make a commodity of the female form.

I think it is important to point out that some women who rock burka's wear them because it makes them feel proud and beautiful. And I agree!

I so appreciate what you said here pherpher,
"See, I'm not about body fascism, but a general aesthetic, that women of the most different shapes can look nice in clothes that suit them."
That's awesome! wink.gif


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honeybunch
post Jun 9 2008, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE(starship @ Jun 2 2008, 06:40 PM) *
why do people thinnk its ok to just point out that im flat chested and remark on my body.grrr.I need to become more resilliant to insensitive comments or im never going to get over this boob issue

i found myself cringing slightly when my bf touched me the other day.total mood killer

not sure why because he always tries to reassure me. He called me a trophy gf..i said i was more like the booby prize, without the booby...he said i was the booty prize and thats good enough for him:)

I know large breasts have problems too but ive noticed that the large breast forum tends to deal more with practicalities whereas our problems revolve around the psychological, not physical, difficulties

((Vendetta))

IA. I've never known a big breasted girl who disliked the breasts themselves although they may have disliked having back problems or difficulty finding the right size bra.
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strongirl
post Jun 9 2008, 03:51 PM
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This back and forth between the small and big boobs threads is pretty fascinating and touches on something I've mentioned before in here, which is the importance of tolerance and support for other women, rather than making assumptions and criticizing.

Why shouldn't a girl with big tits enjoy flaunting them? I enjoy flaunting my cute little ones! And I don't see "wanting attention" as being a character flaw or impure motive. While it is totally legit to prefer modesty as a personal aesthetic, I personally am very visual and love to see other people's bodies and share my own. I don't think that makes me a worse or better person than one who prefers a more demure presentation.

We should all learn to love and appreciate our own bodies, and wherever we can help others to do likewise, by appreciating their beauty and appeal even if it differs from ours, let's do that too!


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starship
post Jun 9 2008, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE(pherber @ Jun 9 2008, 10:15 PM) *
If this is considered desperate attention seeking, you might as well get the burkas out.


ahah. Id probably flaunt them too. Everyone tries to wear clothes that show them to their best, right:/

There should just be one big merged 'Boobs' thread
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pherber
post Jun 9 2008, 02:58 PM
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Sorry for jumping in.
I have 36DD (probably more, because all my bras are too tight, but I can't afford even bigger ones)
A debate in the "big" thread got my curiosity, now...

I'd like to assure you, that I have no "power" because of my big boobs, this probably only applies to women in showbiz, and has nothing to do with reality.
My reality is, whenever I have a crush on a guy, he seems to prefer more modestly shaped girls. Yes, the irony...
I also work in a male dominated field, where my technichal knowledge is appreciated, having big boobs is no problem, but also of ZERO advantage!

...and I'd like to add something I've also posted in the big boob thread:
Actually the irony is, if you have very big boobs, you also get insensitive comments. I.e "How much did they cost?"
Another popular insult is the assumption, they must be saggy, by people, who haven't even seen me naked.

In our stupid porno culture, and obsession with breast implants, people don't always realize, that for women, who have naturally big boobs, this was not a choice we made, and we have to learn to accept our bodies just the same way women with small boobs have to.

PS:
By the way, I'm one of those who shamelessly flaunts her boobs in low cut tops. Why the hell should I hide them in turtle neck jumpers? They look horrible on me!
A woman with lovely legs might wear a mini skirt. I can't! I don't care, that my legs are too heavy for short skirts, but I have an ugly varicose vein.
See, I'm not about body fascism, but a general aesthetic, that women of the most different shapes can look nice in clothes that suit them.
If this is considered desperate attention seeking, you might as well get the burkas out.
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Vendetta
post Jun 9 2008, 09:22 AM
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I commented with the boy that I had less than half men looking at me when I went braless. Answer: Of course, men like staring at things like that. Ain't I dating an idiot or what?
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karategrrl
post Jun 9 2008, 07:28 AM
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Hey ladies,

I'm glad my comments were understood. Sometimes I think maybe I'm being too analytical or sensitive, but since many of you agree, I guess I'm not. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(knorl05 @ Jun 6 2008, 06:14 PM) *
but there is a profound difference in the way men (and women) respond to larger breasts as opposed to an average size bust. an example to this: the other night i met a friend at the bar. he was sitting with some people i had not met, one of them being a woman with a shirt down to there and a push up bra that made her tatas the first thing you notice about her. the way the men reacted to her was in a flirty and jocular manner; the bartender brought attention to himself to say, "hey hey, i asked her if she likes milk" or something equally juvenile, followed by a round of chuckles. i mean. geez. i had to stop myself from rolling my eyes something hard, just so i wouldnt look bitter. but the whole situation was annoying. it's like, great she's got big boobs, get over it.


Oh Goddess, I SO understand!!!! I have been accused of being jealous in situations like that, when I didn't hold back the eye rolls myself. One could probably have been able to tell she had large knockers even if she were wearing a shirt with more coverage, so why go overboard and bring even more attention to it? It reminds me of men who are all into the bodybuilding scene and will wear (undersize, to makes them look like they are busting out) tank tops in the freaking winter. It, to me, only makes one appear desperate for recognition/attention. If a guy has nice muscles, you can still tell in a button-down shirt. Add to that the added allure of a man who doesn't look like he needs to flaunt it. Also leaves something to the imagination, no? wink.gif

Yep, she's got big boobs, get over it. Move on. What I constantly find amusing (in a way that does annoy me, though) is how men will say nudity or big breasts or whatever are "no big deal," yet they respond like that. (Warning: me possibly being overanalytical: Is it conditioning? Do guys just say shit like that b/c they're in groups and it's "expected?" Or do they figure they should give the woman what they want--attention/a reaction?)


QUOTE(knorl05 @ Jun 6 2008, 06:14 PM) *
in the past i've had guys suggest to me that i get my tits done, with the only argument being to get more attention. but what type of attention would that be? is it really something i need in my life? would larger breasts create experiences in which men (people) respect me for my mind? in the end, we really have to determine what is important to us. again, large breasts, small breasts, it doesnt matter.. what matters is how we treat ourselves, and the dynamic we are looking to create between ourselves and those around us.


Wow, you hit it right on. I had some asshat at the gym where I used to work tell me that too, and it was a totally "from left field" kind of comment--like, it barely related to what we had been talking about. Gee, thanks for telling me, an almost-stranger what I should do with my body...and for what purpose, exactly?? Duh. I mean, if I had larger breasts, I still wouldn't see myself "using" them or showing them off for anyone but my hubby.

"I like being feminine but I do not like lording it over men, it feels oppressive, and if it is what the larger male dominated media/society is telling me to do, then it probably is a form of oppression."

Very well said!


Okay...what I find attractive about women...

Must I narrow it down to one thing? smile.gif I think most everyone has something beautiful about them. I dunno, but as you night have guessed, I find women most attractive when they have a depth to them. I'd definitely be more attracted to the woman who's a bit more physically modest but great personality, intelligent, etc. vs. one who has her tits pushed up and hanging out in public. <yawn.>
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knorl05
post Jun 8 2008, 10:45 PM
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neurotic nelly: i will have to concur with your sentiments about dj biz. she's one smart cookie! always fascinating to read her posts as well. smile.gif and my favorite area of the female form is the shoulders/décolleté.. especially with very pronounced collar bones. how about everyone else?


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neurotic.nelly
post Jun 8 2008, 02:46 PM
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Oh yeah, I have to say breasts of all shapes and sizes are beautiful to me.

It is not the size of our breasts that we should be worried about, but rather, we should be very concerned about the thing that says this breast is better than that. What ever you want to label it, that is what I am concerned with. DJ Monkey was really awesome and cerebral in her deconstruction of it. This is my beef. I love my breasts, they make me feel free, and light. I hate the thing that says that Vendetta should feel like less of a woman because of her sleek breast tissue.

My favorite part of the female form is not the breasts though, it is the curve of the back.



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Vendetta
post Jun 8 2008, 05:00 AM
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I've always been strongly confident and my sexiness came from that. And right now I'm still confident when I'm not being intimate. But take me off my padded bra and I'm left with nothing. That is sad.
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neurotic.nelly
post Jun 7 2008, 04:01 PM
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"And flashing one's boobies for "power" of some sort or other is really a surrender of true power."
This rings true for me, karategrrl. wink.gif

Generally, what the larger male dominated media/society tells us about our sexual powers as women is inverted. It is not true. There is usually more than one truth, or the actual truth is the exact opposite. So, as a beautiful woman, hour glass figure, "a knockout", show us your beautiful body/breasts - and you'll have us drooling, you'll have us in the palm of your hand... all power is yours. It is not true, the power is fleeting, and men's interests are fickle and fleeting. All things change with time. Big breasts do not ensure a happy relationship or their duration.

The real power is in the mind. Sexiness starts there, too! Once you possess, this you can never lose it, this may not be *true*, but I just like the way it sounds wink.gif . This is what I was telling Vendetta, which she probably knows, but I will say it again anyway, confidence is attractive and sexy.

I like being feminine but I do not like lording it over men, it feels oppressive, and if it is what the larger male dominated media/society is telling me to do, then it probably is a form of oppression.

Someone mentioned this earlier (i think), I have noticed that the larger breasts support group discussion is dominated by bra talk and such. More physical than psychological. I've noticed this too.

I hardly ever worry about bras. I do not care for bras, I can keep a bra forever. No problem finding bras over here!, I'm in and out of the store in no time, shopping for bras - ha! This is my joy as a small breasted woman!

One last thing, I *enjoy* talking about breasts and deconstructing them and our societies fascination with them.


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knorl05
post Jun 6 2008, 11:57 AM
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karategrrl: not prudish at all, educated and aware is more like it. yes celebration of the human form, the female form in particular, is one thing.. and exploiting it is quite another. you are right, small breasted, large breasted, doesnt really matter so much.... but there is a profound difference in the way men (and women) respond to larger breasts as opposed to an average size bust. an example to this: the other night i met a friend at the bar. he was sitting with some people i had not met, one of them being a woman with a shirt down to there and a push up bra that made her tatas the first thing you notice about her. the way the men reacted to her was in a flirty and jocular manner; the bartender brought attention to himself to say, "hey hey, i asked her if she likes milk" or something equally juvenile, followed by a round of chuckles. i mean. geez. i had to stop myself from rolling my eyes something hard, just so i wouldnt look bitter. but the whole situation was annoying. it's like, great she's got big boobs, get over it.
in the past i've had guys suggest to me that i get my tits done, with the only argument being to get more attention. but what type of attention would that be? is it really something i need in my life? would larger breasts create experiences in which men (people) respect me for my mind? in the end, we really have to determine what is important to us. again, large breasts, small breasts, it doesnt matter.. what matters is how we treat ourselves, and the dynamic we are looking to create between ourselves and those around us.

vendetta: neither karategrrl nor myself said that every "breasted woman" flashes her boobs and thinks she can have anything because of them. what we are saying is that some women use their bodies to avoid responsibility, which does nothing valuable for them in the long run.


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Vendetta
post Jun 6 2008, 10:30 AM
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I know lol I'm not making that assumption
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karategrrl
post Jun 6 2008, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE(Vendetta @ Jun 6 2008, 02:25 PM) *
Well, not every "breasted woman" flashes her boobs and thinks she can have anything because of them.


That isn't what I said.
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Vendetta
post Jun 6 2008, 08:08 AM
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Well, not every "breasted woman" flashes her boobs and thinks she can have anything because of them. Some of them are just normal people, like us, but with boobs. And they still have that "power" that we don't. I'm not saying we don't have power, we certainly have other "powers", but on intimacy they do have that one.
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karategrrl
post Jun 6 2008, 06:57 AM
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QUOTE(knorl05 @ Jun 6 2008, 09:46 AM) *
on the small vs large tip and who is taken more seriously, etc... i'd have to say that i think sometimes women with larger breasts >>whose values and priorities lie in finding a mate and being taken care of<< dont feel they need to try as hard. i think that, typically speaking, women with this outlook feel all they have to do is flash their boobies and they'll get whatever they want in life. some dont even care if they're taken seriously or considered intelligent.


That is a good point. Thre are women who use their breasts--or, should I say, others' obession with breasts--to get what they want. I read an account once of a woman talking about how, as early as her teen years, she realized that she could render boys speechless/paralyzed/mouth hanging open simply by lifting her shirt and showing her ample breasts. It is this capitalizing on men's love of breasts and female bodies that is, I believe, the reason why porn and strip clubs and the like remain a multibillion-dollar business. Many women capitalize on their bodies to make a sure, quick buck. I guess the mindset is, "I've got it, why not use it to get things if men will actually pay for it?" (payment in money/attention/gifts, etc.). This shortcut, however, is harmful in the long run--the flip side is not being taken seriously and perpetuating the "women as objects," "show me your boobs, I'll show you the bucks" cycle that I think all women end up paying for, at least indirectly.

I suppose many women don't care if they are taken seriously or not, if all they want is material things. However, I've been to strip clubs (no other way to see for myself what it was all about) and watched enough documentaries on stripping where in one part, the women are all proud and boasting of all the money they make, attention they get and how great it makes them feel, etc. But in quieter moments, the anger bubbles up and they are faced with the fact that they are taking off their clothes and showing their sacred parts to strangers, suppressing their intelligence, feelings, soul and all the things that make them unique human beings, and just presenting themselves as tits and ass on display. Add to that the act that most men will pay to see this but say they would never date or marry someone like that.

I once saw a photo someone had taken of a woman standing on a street in New Orleans (no offense to DJbiz-monkey!), about to lift her shirt. In a semicircle around her were a bunch of men whooping, hollering and egging her on, some with cameras poised. It was "the moment before the MOMENT," so to speak. The (male) photographer commented that he liked this photo because it showed the "power" she had over these men. I remember thinking, POWER? What kind of power is that? Once she lifted her shirt and got her beads, they'd all be off to the next woman. Strikes me as a very superficial and fleeting version of "power."

Sorry, I didn't mean to get on such a tangent. And I know many may not disagree with stripping or shirt-lifting or whatever. (And, I admit, in particualr situations, like with my husband or very close friends, or with my sis-in-law to prove a point that my breasts were smaller, I've flashed mine.) I'm not a prude. I like erotica and tasteful celebrations of the body as a beautiful and sensual art form, but I feel there is a fine line between that and objectification. And flashing one's boobies for "power" of some sort or other is really a surrender of true power.
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knorl05
post Jun 6 2008, 03:29 AM
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neurotic nelly: soo, i dont take compliments very well, but thank you. i equally appreciate your mind and perspective! and that last post, wow, excellent observations. with this, "moreover than the intellectual component, i enjoyed the camaraderie with boys/men." ... thats an opportunity that i think not too many women even allow themselves to explore given the specific and defined terms of what it means to be a girl. i think unfortunately some women miss out the chance to bond with guys because they arent willing to step too far out of the female box (no pun intended). i have noticed that a lot of young women who dont have much life experience, would rather be considered pretty than "real" (real, in the sense of being down to earth). not saying girly girls -or females who try to be- cant be real too... i'm just saying, when one's priority is to be [this], they usually arent as concerned with being [that]. dotdotdot. but, back to the the original topic of androgyny.. i believe this approach allows a woman to deconstruct and explore her own sexuality and limitations on terms which she is comfortable. i think that in the process of self discovery and liberation, experiences colored with ambiguity are almost entirely a necessity.

karategrrl: so so true. i think we forget sometimes the benefits of having smaller breasts, when we're looking at them by aesthetic value alone. i love that i'm able to go running, or dance all night, without the pain that larger breasts can cause. on the small vs large tip and who is taken more seriously, etc... i'd have to say that i think sometimes women with larger breasts >>whose values and priorities lie in finding a mate and being taken care of<< dont feel they need to try as hard. i think that, typically speaking, women with this outlook feel all they have to do is flash their boobies and they'll get whatever they want in life. some dont even care if they're taken seriously or considered intelligent. it's unfortunate that they'd deny themselves like that, but it is a choice, and i am guilty of making assumptions about them as well. not that i harshly judge anyone or put forth any sort of oppressive energy... but i can usually tell based on how a person carries her/himself, or presents her/himself, whether or not they'd be interested to engage in any sort of substantial exchange of ideas. but i digress.. and if i am wrong in that thought process, wonderful, i connected with someone new.


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karategrrl
post Jun 5 2008, 06:26 AM
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QUOTE(knorl05 @ Jun 4 2008, 07:53 PM) *
they allow me the rite to downplay my sexuality to such a degree that pure intellect is allowed to take its course. so many women complain that they are not taken seriously, and i wonder if the outward display of their breasts doesnt have something to do with that


Knorl, VERY well said. When I am feeling positive about my breasts, I feel somewhat liberated and yes, even empowered--empowered to be taken seriously. Which is not to say that large-breasted women can't be taken seriously or don't have any smarts, etc., because of course that is not true. But yes, I believe it can be a bit of a struggle for us ladies to be taken seriously sometimes, or for people to look past our femaleness or whatever. Having smaller breasts, I think, makes that easier.

Part of it may be that our outward appearance pretty much dictates that those (okay, men) who are more interested in substance will gravitate to us, and those more interested in "parts" will not. Of course, the downside is that large-breasted women often do have a hard time being taken seriously or people assuming they are dumb or sexpots just b/c they are large-breasted. As I type, of course, all of this makes me think of how stupid all these assumptions are that we make about people. And I admit, I can be just as guilty at making them! blink.gif

I, too, was very much the tomboy growing up. I actually wished I were born a boy, as I was SO not into girly-girl stuff. So you can imagine how traumatic it was for me when I got my period. What allowed me to fly under the radar at that time were my small breasts, as I didn't have big breasts on my chest shouting to the world, "I've reached puberty!!!" I remember there was another girl in my sixth-grade class who had also gotten her period. She was large-chested and constantly harassed by the boys, while my period reamined my little secret. wink.gif

On a side note, I went to a contact improvisation dance jam last night. It is at times like that I am grateful to be able to move so freely and unencumbered by any large, floppy body parts, i.e., breasts, and also, b/c contact improv can get touchy-feely, I can be reasonably sure the guys aren't staring at my chest or trying to cop a feel because, well, there's nothing much there to feel!
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neurotic.nelly
post Jun 4 2008, 09:53 PM
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knorl, i think that you expressed yourself very effectively. i have to agree with you about the freedom to explore gender roles. when i was in high school, i was in tomboy mode, and that carried over into college, and my early twenties. i explored the landscape of androgyny. moreover than the intellectual component, i enjoyed the camaraderie with boys/men. we could become friends without the pretense of sexuality, or sexualization of body parts. some of my strongest bonds with boys/men were made out of this exploration of androgyny. i think that gender roles are almost a fundamental identification for humans, it is ingrained from early domestication of the human being. Gender. It's where it starts. Limitation, which lends to the ideas that gender are concrete. Having smaller breasts makes crossing or walking this line easier, and gosh, it is fun and full of contradiction.

there is a dance that develops between two or more interacting people, gender in particular provides the framework for which this dance takes place, coloring the way we interact, murky... it may not really be us responding, but a conditioned response based on purely outer appearance. i hope that makes sense... i rewrote it a few times.

"which kind of allows a woman to create herself in her own image - hmm?"
i say more like, "mmmmmmm...yeah."

knorl05, i adore your mind, and the questions that arise from it. your old avatar didn't scare me, in fact.


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knorl05
post Jun 4 2008, 01:36 PM
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hello my fellow ><a cup busties. i've been slacking in this thread something heavy. my mind has been in a place that i didnt want my boobies to distract from.. sometimes i feel that thinking too much about my boobies, perpetuates my concern over them. resultingly, i am not up to date on the info/thoughts that have been expressed here, so i apologize for busting in without some sort of congruity to the ongoing convo.

however. i had a thought. i like the freedom my small breasts give me to explore gender roles. so many women complain that they are not taken seriously, and i wonder if the outward display of their breasts doesnt have something to do with that... that the image their boobies respresent to men, whether subconsciously or not, is one of gratification. not to say that our small breasts dont or cant serve the same function, however, ours are a bit more inconspicuous. so not only are we sexy to the men and women who find us physically attractive, but i think we are also allowed to be a bit more cerebral than our voluptuous counterparts. eh?

edit: did i express that effectively? i guess the point i was trying to make is that (especially in todays society) women are so highly sexualized, that to take a more androgynous approach, liberates one from falling into a particular category.. which kind of allows a woman to create herself in her own image - hmm?


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