The Lounge Guidelines Help Search Members Calendar Blogs

Welcome Guest [ Log In | Register ] ]

82 Pages V  « < 80 81 82  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> What the F@%&?! And more feminist outrage...
kjhink
post Apr 25 2006, 11:31 AM
Post #1621


BUSTie
**
Posts: 59
From: St. Louis, MO


tyger, I'm fully willing to agree with you on most of your points. Being gay is not a choice. Of course it's not, but even if it *were* I would support gay rights because who am I to tell consenting individuals whom they should love. I also fully agree that bigotry of every stripe deserves confrontation.

And of course you and your friend and your uncle should be protected from physical assault and harrassment. No matter what.

The thing is, though, is that I think that people have a fundamental right to be bigots. I think it's disgusting. It should be discouraged, denigrated, ridiculed, routed, DRIVEN from our culture. Until it is, though, I still believe they have a right to say what they think.

And in your example, I do support the KKK's right to say what they want as long as it isn't a call to mow down a synagogue or a group of black kids on the playground. They have sued, and they've won.

This all gets much more gray in the workplace, as it should. You don't have a right to behave any way you want at work, my business casual attire is testimony to that. And I don't believe speech should be unencumbered in quite the same way in elementary and secondary schools. Children, frankly, can't and shouldn't be expected to have that level of responsibility.

Colleges and universities are different, to my mind. Everyone is an adult, and people need to 1. exchange ideas (no matter how fucking stupid)and 2. learn how to get along in as adults. Consequently, I think that even ugly speech should be protected.

There is a line between offense and harassment, and I feel that unitl it is crossed, people have a right to be an asshole.

And everyone else has a responsibility to tell them loudly and repeatedly to drop dead.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tyger
post Apr 25 2006, 11:07 AM
Post #1622


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 948


i think that being homophobic should never, ever be protected under law. why should it be treated any different than racism? if it was the KKK and neo-nazis suing for the right to speak out against people who weren't white christians, wear racist shirts to school, etc, most people wouldn't take them seriously. i don't know anybody who has chosen to be gay. i have a friend who was almost run down by a car, had someone from another school come to our school and try to knife her, was jumped in the street, simply because the was the first out lesbian at my school. did she choose to be a lesbian? no, she damn well didn't. did i choose to be queer? no. did my uncle choose to be gay and persecuted? no. so why on earth should someone have the 'right' to wear homophobic shirts to school and speak out against my sexual orientation when i didn't chose it? if your religion says you have to be an intolerant bigoted asshole, fine, but you shouldn't get protection of your bigoted assholeness. you should get a punch in the face.

i'm sorry. the only thing i really can't stand is intolerant people. i find it disgusting that in this day and age people still think it's okay to deem something different than them wrong/evil/deviant/deserving of scorn. and if the first amendment is going to protect their rights to discriminate me, i want it changed. (though i'm in canada and therefore the first amendment doesn't effect me, but i think i made my point)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kjhink
post Apr 25 2006, 10:50 AM
Post #1623


BUSTie
**
Posts: 59
From: St. Louis, MO


I think that the woman mentioned in Snaf's argument is a repellant human being who is sorely deserving of a serious ass-whoopin'.

Sadly, I also think that she's probably right.

The problem with the 1st Amendment is that it requires that on occassion one must put up with the most outragageous of idiots. She has a fundamental right to be an intolerant asshat. She has a right to send a nasty letter to the Pride Alliance.

She hasn't been accused of stalking its members, or threatening them, or inciting others to do so. She's being an intolerant and hateful brat. I think she has a right to do so. This woman does own her hate. Her particular "sect" seems to own it, too.

When I used to do clinic escorting, the other escorts and I certainly ridiculed the protestors. They were absurd, not to mention judgemental and stupid. That said, though, I had to recognize their fundamental right to be there and wave their stupid signs. Threaten me? No. Touch me? No. Threaten patients? No. Act like a twit? Sadly, yes.

I think it should be noted that I find a big difference between her right to write stupid letters and wear stupid shirts and the Boy Scouts' refusal to allow gay members. Namely, the Boy Scouts are subsidized by government in ways large and small, and they have in their rules a fundamentally intolerant and exclusionary rule. Why should my tax dollars support that stupid shit? It shouldn't.

I also don't think that universities should be forced to give recognition in the form of money to groups that promote intolerance. One fool's speech and the money he or she chooses to spend on it is one thing, but I don't think other students should be required to subsidize it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
miss_jane
post Apr 25 2006, 10:27 AM
Post #1624


BUSTie
**
Posts: 34
From: UK


smurfin, got any spare eyeball scrub?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
smurfin
post Apr 25 2006, 10:13 AM
Post #1625


BUSTie
**
Posts: 73
From: The old world - Europe, that is.


Ehm... can someone help me? I seem to have read (in the article Snaf posted) that the boy scouts do not allow gay people in? Is that true? If so, HOW?

How can that *not* be discrimination? How... I'm just speechless. Really. And inexplicably happy I don't live in the US...


ETA I just visited the boy scouts' national website, and yes, it says: 'anyone who declares himself to be a homosexual would not be allowed to join', but fear not: 'Applications for leadership and membership do not inquire into sexual orientation'.

So all you have to do to be accepted is lie.
Again.

Yuck. I'm going to go and scrub my eyeballs now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tyger
post Apr 25 2006, 09:47 AM
Post #1626


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 948


but those people aren't getting in trouble for having a frank civil discussion about their religious beliefs (and if their 'religion' is spreading hate then i don't consider it a religion at all, but that isn't the point here). they're getting in trouble for anti-gay slurs and homophobic shirts, and if that's their 'religion' then it deserves to be classified as harassment. one of my best friends was raised catholic and had no problems with people other than straight while she was still part of the church (she left recently). my mother is christian and has no problem with her brother being gay or me being queer. i say people need to stop hiding behind their religion; if you don't want to come out and say you hate a certain group and own your hate and your opinion as your own, keep you damn mouth shut
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
alligator
post Apr 24 2006, 11:53 PM
Post #1627


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 106


Well, Batty, it's a little more complicated than that. Some of the laws in question define "harassment" so broadly that even a frank but civil discussion of one's religious beliefs violates them.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
battygurl
post Apr 24 2006, 08:19 PM
Post #1628


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 247


I really don't get how they can argue that they are being restricted from practicing their religion. Their religion isn't "harass gay and lesbians" it's (debatably) "don't engage in homosexual activity." As long as they aren't being forced to engage in homosexual activity their freedom of religion isn't being hindered.

It's all so fucking ridiculous. "Wah, I'm not allowed to be hateful or intolerant."


--------------------
Tears are curious things, for like earthquakes or puppet shows they can occur at any time, without any warning, and without any good reason. --Lemony Snicket
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
snafooey
post Apr 24 2006, 07:58 PM
Post #1629


I said a boom chicka rocka chicka rocka chicka boom
***
Posts: 610


Homophobes Protest Tolerance Policies (fancy link wouldn't work b/c of the commas):

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-na-christians10apr10,0,6596503.story

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kittenb
post Apr 23 2006, 06:22 AM
Post #1630


There is nothing ironic about Show Choir!
***
Posts: 3,261
From: Chicago


According to the FBI, more people falsely report their own deaths than falsely report a rape. Just my $0.02.


--------------------
In times of destruction, create something.
MHK
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
greenbean
post Apr 22 2006, 02:32 PM
Post #1631


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 954


I saw some pictures of her with her head down, one shoe off, leaving the party. They were painting her as a sloppy drunk. I think I saw it on an "entertainment news" show, which reeeeally pisses me off.

Nohope, I dont see the comparison the way you do. In each case it seemed to me like the general public has the attitude of, "shes a liar trying to cash in". I think the issue here that gets under our skin is that when rape cases are made public with the undercurrent of "is she telling the truth?" it really makes it hard for other rape victims to come forward. Is it possible that a woman/girl could lie about rape? Sure, but its a rare exception not the norm. When the media sensationalizes a story like this, it gets into our female subconcious that if we are raped, its just too much extra trauma to go through a trial.


--------------------
I thank God I was raised Catholic, so sex will always be dirty.--John Waters
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

82 Pages V  « < 80 81 82
Reply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: July 30, 2014 - 05:20 AM