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> Go Ahead...ask Me About My Abortion
kittenb
post Jul 12 2008, 10:33 AM
Post #41


There is nothing ironic about Show Choir!
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vegdumpling - DT was pretty much "boo'ed" off the site about 2 weeks after this posting.


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vegdumpling
post Jul 11 2008, 09:30 PM
Post #42


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QUOTE(deepthinker @ Apr 24 2008, 12:43 AM) *
I'll warn you now, what I'm going to say may not be very popular here, but I feel the need to say something regarding this topic. I apologize now, in case I come across as rude or mean in this post, as that's certainly not how I intend what I am about to say.

First off, let's look at the actual child itself here. Now I can understand things are rough when pregnant, for various reasons depending on the circumstances surrounding it but....why should the baby be punished for something it had no say over? It's not it's fault it got there, the fact is it's there, and deserves life and love just as much as any other human being does.

Staying on that, think about your own lives for a second. Now imagine you never existed, or you yourself were aborted. It's a scary thought isn't it? I almost was aborted myself, and I could have had an older sibling but it was aborted. I always wonder how my life might have been different had I had that older brother or sister, just where it would be now.

Something else too, is there's the fact that there are so many women out there who actually do want kids but cannot have them for various reasons. These are women who would do anything for a child, and yet many who do have that chance, just throw it away. You ladies have been given one of the greatest gifts imaginable (if not the greatest), in the ability to bring new life into the world, why not embrace it?

Lastly, where does the dad or for that matter other family members fit into all this, like grandparents, aunts and uncles. It's not just your kid of course, do their feelings or thoughts mean nothing?

Just some things to chew on.....

you know, deep thinker, i actually have thought on these things. in fact i owe my life to an abortion, my mother had an abortion and if she had not she would have been unable to conceive me otherwise. i was conceived at what would have otherwise been the third trimester of her pregnancy.

i understand that we probably have come to different conclusions on what is right and wrong but as a woman who both owes her life to an abortion and has had one herself, i believe that each case is different and that each woman needs to make her decision each time. maybe other people will disagree with this but it isn't my boyfriend carrying a child in his body for 9 months so i didn't think he had a say in my decision, his was advice to be solicited only if i wished. grandparents, aunts and uncles have absolutely no say and shouldn't unless they plan on raising the child on their own. then they are merely offering me an option because it is still my decision.

i don't consider a fetus a "baby." it can become an baby, but if i decided to have a hysterectomy would you accuse me of punishing all my unfertilized eggs? is every menstrualtion cycle filled with the blood of a murdered child? no. i am the only person involved in the equation and there is a high cost to a pregnancy even if the child goes for adoption at the end. in my mind it can be significantly higher than the cost involved in an abortion.

i've been told that there was a time when pregnancy was considered a woman's "natural" state. the evidence was of course menstrual blood which we now know isn't even really blood at all. i find it offensive that you would insinuate that my greatest value lies in my ability to procreate. children are abundant in this world and we are nearing a state of over population, it seems to me that having a child who isn't wanted simple to share the "greatest gift" that i possess would be an inherently selfish act.

i recognise that i did answer your points in a different order than you presented them but i don't really want to go back and change it now. this forum isn't for debate of morals and to be honest i find people who would judge me based on their own morals to be a little annoying. i don't believe that a personal moral system is of any use except to guide that particular persons decisions. it does not belong in politics or any group setting as far as i am concerned.
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kittenb
post Jul 11 2008, 07:52 PM
Post #43


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sierra82 - I'm going to repost this number: 1-866-4-EXHALE. Exhale is a pro-choice and pro-woman abortion counseling hotline. Their hours are 5-10 PM, M-F and noon-10PM Sa-Su. Planned Parenthood endorses them. They are a place that you can share your confusion and pain with and they will support your choices.
You also might benefit from looking through some of the rituals that have been created to help women through abortions. Whatever your spiritual beliefts are, the ceremonies can often help bring closure and solace to this time. I did a quick Yahoo search and found some sites. However, due to the sneakiness of the anti-choice movement you might want to have someone screen the sites before you look at them, just to make sure that they are sites that will help not harm.
Above all, be kind to yourself. You deserve it.


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shinyx3
post Jul 11 2008, 02:50 PM
Post #44


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sierra, i do not believe that the decision to get an abortion or to keep an unwanted pregnancy is ever easy. let me start by saying that i have terminated a pregnancy and i was married and financially stable at the time. there were simply too many reason why having a baby was not the right choice for me at that time. there are so many feeling and emotions with any life choice that will have an effect on the rest of your life and in this case your sig others as well. we all want to do what is best for the situation and sometimes it is not clear to both heart and mind what that is. i wish you luck and love while going through this process as i know it can really suck. there are lots of great stories on this thread of how people have dealt with this. it may be helpful just to read some and see that you are not at all alone. as to this changing your relationship with your boyfriend, it very well may, but perhaps not in the way you are worrying about. it may make you stronger and more close having made this kind of a life choice together and being the responsible adults that you are. this may bring out strength in both of you.

keep up posted on how you are doing and remember that we are often so much stronger than we think we can be.


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"Razors pain you; rivers are damp; acids stain you; and drugs cause cramp. Guns aren't lawful; nooses give; gas smells awful; you might as well live."
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sierra82
post Jul 9 2008, 06:46 PM
Post #45


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I just found out yesterday that I'm pregnant. It really wasn't supposed to happen. It's not like we were careless; we unintentionally made a mistake. I really didn't feel any indication that I was pregnant, and even after the positive test I was still in denial. The only reason I took a test was because I chart my basal temperature every morning, and knew something was up when I had more than 12 days of high temps. My boyfriend and I have discussed before what we would do in this kind of situation, and after talking about it last night we both decided that the best thing to do is to terminate it.

But that was before the whole thing sunk in today. I'm scheduled to have the surgical termination in a week and I'm feeling super depressed about it. I'm 26, my boyfriend and I have been together for years and do plan on marriage and kids someday. He is someone that I do want to eventually have kids with, and I think that is making this all the harder. It's just not the right time -- I'm trying to finish a doctorate, he's trying to start his own business, neither of us has a permanent income source, we wouldn't even be able to live together for over another year. And we've had concrete plans concerning when we want to have kids... it's a long story but basically we KNOW we can't have a child in the kind of environment that we're in and need to wait until we're in a much more secure situation. And honestly... we're really just not ready to be good parents.

I thought I'd be able to be much more stoic about this. But I can't help but feel horrible. I'm really afraid that by the time next week rolls around, I will feel a connection to "it", because I already kind of do. I've been crying on and off all day and have already found myself hysterically apologizing to it. I'm feeling guilty and selfish even though I keep telling myself that it really is best, that a child cannot be raised properly in my current situation. My brain believes it, but my heart thinks it's a crock of shit.

I'm also really worried that all this will somehow change my relationship with my boyfriend. I'm not sure how, but it worries me. It's like, this is a product of our love, and now it's going to be destroyed. I'm also scared about the surgical procedure itself, worried that something will go wrong causing me to not be able to have a baby in the future. I will have thrown away my chance.


Please, if anyone can sympathize or offer any advice as to how to gather the strength to go through with this, please share.
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NoSissy
post Jul 7 2008, 09:35 AM
Post #46


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QUOTE(anarch @ Jun 29 2008, 04:23 PM) *
More on medical vs surgical abortions.


Just wanted to share, that I have had a medical and surgical abortion. I would like to use these experiences to help and support other women in making a very difficult choice. I also think the circumstances and results of my abortions could help others.

My boyfriend of 3 years began as a one night stand that neither of us expected to go anywhere. He fathered 2 boys in 3 MONTHS when he was 17YRS OLD. (Being 17 and dumb, girls he dated said they were on birth control, didn't find out about the first until the second was already pregnant.) At 27 he is an active father to both boys, and has taken responsibility as much as a 17 yr old father could. He had a vasectamy(sp) at 22 but the urologist would only do the "reversible" kind where they pinch it off or tie the tube instead of snipping it. We both believed we were in the clear. Apparently we were not. I had been extraordinairily diligent about birth control for 30 years, all for naught. I thought I would NEVER be in the position to decide whether or not to have an abortion because I ALWAYS protected myself and played it safe. But here I was confronted with what was to me an unfathomable situation. We had strong feelings for each other, but we'd only been together for a month. I wasn't ready, and as much as you can love a child, I've SEEN that when you bring a child into the world without truly, passionately wanting the responsibility of raising a child, the child's self-esteem WILL SUFFER. So I did what i felt was the best for myself, but also what was best for my lover, who was swiftly becoming my partner, and his 2 sons, who already suffer because they were the unexpected children of teenage parents. I chose a medical abortion.

At this point in my life, I do not feel hormonal birth control is an option for me. It was right for me when I was 15 years old until I was 22 years old because it was the time I needed to explore sexually and figure out who I was and what direction I wanted to go in my life. I am ETERNALLY grateful to my mother for being so open and such a non-judgmental resource for me in my sexual education. The rate of teen pregnancy I witness around me now makes me realize that most girls don't have such a valuable resource to consult in their early sexual education, but that's a whole different thread. I was trying out other non-hormonal birth control options including condoms, a diaphragm with spermicide, withdrawl and timing my cycle, when I got pregnant AGAIN. Apparently my partner has some seriously potent sperm. I thought we might be ready for a child at that point, but my fear and my instincts told me I was not. So I opted for a surgical abortion, because I wanted it to be over as quickly as possible. I now am THRILLED to say that I have a COPPER IUD that will last up to 10 years because being a step-mom to my partner's little boys has made me realize that good parenting is the ultimate sacrifice of individual independence. I'm no longer sure if I even want children of my own. I know about the few controversial issues surrounding the IUD, but I am going with the odds on this one. I will NEVER have another abortion unless the pregnancy would endanger my life. I HIGHLY recommend AVOIDING it in the first place. But when a woman decides that is what she needs to do, NO ONE should try to tell her otherwise. I will help, support, and pass on information regarding both of these procedures to any woman in need.

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anarch
post Jun 29 2008, 02:06 PM
Post #47


Hardcore BUSTie
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More on medical vs surgical abortions.

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konphusion26
post Jun 6 2008, 09:34 AM
Post #48


Hardcore BUSTie
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From: In My own lil world...


QUOTE(Sound Of Vision @ Jun 6 2008, 07:07 AM) *
*speechless after reading the whole story*

...

I want to slap women who abuse it, who are so stupid (I must say that) not to use birth control of any kind and are therefore forced to do such thing. I hope I will never be in such situation, because it would devastate me. I am pro-choice but because of such women I avoid to mention the word.


Yeah SOV, I'm speechless too hun. It makes me very angry. She called me yesterday morning and goes "guess what, I'm pregnant"... I was like, "ALREADY??" so she gets kinda crappy with me after that. Dude, its been maybe 2 months since she lost the twins she was pregnant with. How in the heck are you pregnant again already? It sickens me, yet she expects me to be happy for her. NO I'm not. Not at all. Yes its her body but thats not my issue with it. My issue is, she's being irresponsible with her fertility, with her body. I'm hoping she will keep this one if she carries it to term. I had to truly bite my tongue yesterday. Gah!


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Sound Of Vision
post Jun 6 2008, 04:50 AM
Post #49


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From: Split


QUOTE(konphusion26 @ Jun 6 2008, 08:14 AM) *
Dammit she's pregnant again....


*speechless after reading the whole story*

...

I've been thinking about this thing since elementary school (while my friends still played with dolls I think), and although my mother never talked to me about it and my country isn't exactly the most liberal one (too Catholic) I made my stands clear: abortion should be option for every woman but as a last resort and avoided as much as possible.
I don't think of it as a murder or anything pro-life activists claim, but it is huge messing with your body and psyche.

I want to slap women who abuse it, who are so stupid (I must say that) not to use birth control of any kind and are therefore forced to do such thing. I hope I will never be in such situation, because it would devastate me. I am pro-choice but because of such women I avoid to mention the word.


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konphusion26
post Jun 5 2008, 11:57 PM
Post #50


Hardcore BUSTie
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From: In My own lil world...


QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Apr 28 2008, 12:50 AM) *
konphusion, I don't really know what to tell you. It just doesn't make sense for her to keep having unprotected sex if she's just going to keep having abortions. It's as if there's something inside her that's not connecting the dots. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro-choice but I don't believe in using abortions as a form of birth control. Also is she not worried about std's at all? I agree with kittenb, she might be suffering from depression. I know that when I was really horribly depressed I did some things in my sex life that I'm not at all proud of. I wish I could offer some more advice.


Dammit she's pregnant again....


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auralpoison
post Jun 5 2008, 11:32 PM
Post #51


Big Fat Bitch
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Has anybody heard from ExpatRiot post-Deepwanker's self-righteous thang? I sent her an email, but got nothing back. I may not know her, but I want to have her back. I support her choice.


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starshine
post Apr 28 2008, 07:29 PM
Post #52


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Iittenb, why worry about taking this outside. Mutliple abortions/abortions as a form of birth control are big issues within the pro-choice and pro-life debates. And something that I see a lot of women struggle with when they are faced with the option of a second, or third, or sixth for that matter, abortion. I have seen a lot of helplessness, shame and guilt around these choices. (And also an example or two of women being so incredibly relieved and overjoyed at the decisions they've made and having chosen to have an abortion, but that's a whole other story.)

I'm such a huge believer that birth control and condoms are a form of self-respect. I work in a woman's shelter and a lot of the work we like to do is around developing a sense of self worth/empowerment work. It's amazing the number of women who don't use either, and have such incredibly low opinions of themselves, and who think that only the man's opinion counts, and when he says no to condoms, then she has no right to say anything. And then they're the ones having to deal with the options of abortion, adoption or raising another child when they already have two who are about to be apprehended by the Ministry.

Louise Hay's book You Can Heal Your Life is an oldy, but really good book that emphasizes self-worth and self-love. I've found it extremely helpful in the support work that I do. She also just put out a movie based on the book which is really good, but the book is way more comprehensive, though a very accessible and easy read.


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candycane_girl
post Apr 27 2008, 10:33 PM
Post #53


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konphusion, I don't really know what to tell you. It just doesn't make sense for her to keep having unprotected sex if she's just going to keep having abortions. It's as if there's something inside her that's not connecting the dots. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro-choice but I don't believe in using abortions as a form of birth control. Also is she not worried about std's at all? I agree with kittenb, she might be suffering from depression. I know that when I was really horribly depressed I did some things in my sex life that I'm not at all proud of. I wish I could offer some more advice.
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konphusion26
post Apr 27 2008, 07:52 PM
Post #54


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Thank you Kittenb! Why would we have to go to the take it outside thread? I definitely agree with you! I'm the type of person I want to help the people I love. I want to help but she has told me plenty of times she doesn't need it and not to preach to her or whatever. I definitely am not a preacher. But, if something is bothering me, I'm going to let it be known. She has a 6 yr old son already. I am so afraid that she will call me one day and say she's got HIV or some other illness she can't get rid of. Its just irresponsible. We're not 15- we know what the consequences can be... I don't think she loves/respects her self at all. So, i make it a point to tell her I love her each time we speak. Then she puts up this front like she's so tough and bad-ass, and she doesn't need anybody to tell her anything. Right.

I will have to check that book out. Thank you so much for your response.


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kittenb
post Apr 27 2008, 06:46 AM
Post #55


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I am hesitant to write this here b/c I don't want to derail the thread. However, I don't want to take it to the "Take it Outside" thread b/c it isn't a confrontatation. So I am going to put it here and hope for the best.

konphusion - I read a book called The Girls Who Went Away about the girls b/w 1945-1970's who had to surrender thier babies to adoption. It was not uncommon for some of these girls to wind up getting pregnant again after surrendering a child. While they were unable/not allowed to address their own grieving process, it seemed that their bodies "wanted" to be pregnant. The book explains it better than I can.

It sounds to me like your friend has some strong mental health issues going on. My guess: depression. I can only imagine the physical toll that 4 abortions would have on a woman's psyche and spirit. However, it is more her unwillingness to practice safe sex w/what sounds like random hookups. As I think most of us know, safe sex isn't about just not getting pregnant. It is about respecting and loving ourselves enough that we also don't want to get sick. I think you can love and support your friend non-judgementally w/o condoning everything that she does. Maybe it is time for a conversation/intervention to find out what is the root of her self-destructive behavior.


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konphusion26
post Apr 27 2008, 02:59 AM
Post #56


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Good morning every-bustie,

I don't really have much to say. I know a few women around me that have terminated pregnancies for health reasons. But, I have a very close friend (former college buddy) that has had at least 4 abortions since I've known her. When she tells me about it, it disturbs & saddens me for many reasons: one, she is deliberately not practicing safe sex with multiple partners and bragging about it; two, she seems to keep popping up pregnant by these fly-by-night "boyfriends" who scatter once they find out she's with child; then it's off to the clinic like its a routine thing. While I'm not judging her at all - I find myself wondering how she can keep putting herself in those situations. I guess its not for me to understand; yet as a friend I'm supposed encourage and support her without being judgemental or harsh. I really want to shake some sense into her. Her last pregnancy (#5 I think), was "twins" I guess you could call it. One baby was in her fallopian tube and the other in her uterus. She ended up miscarrying both. I'm curious to know if that could be from all the terminations she's had????

It really breaks my heart that she keeps getting into this kinda stuff. I mentally/emotionally can't handle it. I really don't see how she handles it like its an everyday thing.

anyway, I had to get that off my chest. Its been bothering me for a month since I talked to her. You gals have a lovely day.


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damona
post Apr 25 2008, 11:40 AM
Post #57


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*delurk*

((((((expat))))) i've been there. i got pregnant with my oldest at 17 and i considered abortion and adoption both. in the end, i decided that i was going to have and raise my child, but that doesn't mean i'm going to insist you do the same! and no one else has the right to make your decision for you, either! i honestly don't know what swedish laws are regarding abortion and the partners rights, etc., but i do know that they are a very family-friendly country, if you do decide to go thru with the pregnancy.

i think ap really hit most of the salient points in her post, i don't have much to add except for tea and sympathy.

*relurks*


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roseviolet
post Apr 25 2008, 08:21 AM
Post #58


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(((((((((ExPat))))))))))))))))



DeepThinker, I'll put my response to you in the "Take It Outside" thread.
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neurotic.nelly
post Apr 24 2008, 11:33 AM
Post #59


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((((((((expat))))))))

I've had one, and I'm glad I did, for me it was the right decision at the time. I totally freaked too, but the other way, there was no doubt in my mind that I had to get an abortion.

I think that if you sit with yourself and reallllllllllly listen, the right action for you to feel okay with yourself will emerge. This is most important!!!!!!! I wouldn't want to regret a decision like this, either way.

You do not have to take that asshole of a man's opinions, or feelings into account. He lost his rights when he started being a dick!!

DT, she's obviously already thinking about some of the points you brought up, no need to pour salt on an already open wound... not cool dude.



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lilacwine13
post Apr 24 2008, 11:17 AM
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*delurks*

Expat, I recently went through a similar experience, and the questions Auralpoison posted were the ones I was asking myself. My boyfriend, though, wanted the kid and we did have supportive families, yet it still wasn't an ideal time for us to start a family, and we have issues to work through between us, plus we really weren't prepared either emotionally or financially to raise a child the way we wanted to.

In the end, we decided to try to make things work out for the best and to have the kid, but the pregnancy ended in miscarriage, which hurt, both physically and emotionally.

But like the others here have said, it is your choice. You are the one who will to decide whether or not to carry it, and whether or not you want to be a mother right now. Just because I chose one route doesn't mean I want everyone else to do the same; that would be cruel and unreasonable.

It is a very difficult decision, and I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do.



And like mornington said, this isn't the place for a philisophical debate about abortion, so I won't even go there.

*relurks*


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