[funnybird]

Shit, Michelina, I'm so sorry to hear that, but I'm also thinking "what the hell????". Did anyone at the clinic say why Mr M's sperm may have taken a turn for the worse? Are there plans to do another analysis, or maybe look for a potential cause (considering that things were fine a few months ago)? What does he think about it all?

I'm thinking of you. This news has hit a nerve for me because I'm a bit paranoid about AB's sperm, especially as he only has one testicle now! I also have to chase him round the flat with a bottle of vitamins, and sneakily direct him towards boxer shorts instead of briefs (he has both) by putting the boxers at the top of his underwear drawer and hiding the briefs at the bottom. Anyway, I hope you can get some answers.

[Michelina]

"Of the total of 258 patients, 15 achieved a pregnancy in 284 cycles of IUI in which the inseminating motile-count was < 1.0 million motile sperm, resulting in a monthly fecundity (f) of 5.3%."

This was the sentence I was referring to.

[Michelina]

Thanks Zelda and Cristine. It is still possible I'll get pregnant according to the abstract I linked below. My chance is about 5% according to it. That is what unmedicated IUI is for unexplained infertility anyway! Now I am just wondering if we have explained infertility.

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/conten...stract/18/4/448

By oligo I meant oligospermia (low sperm count: less than 20 mil / mL). I wonder about the cigarettes now. I know it can be a once off, but given it's been a year without a pregnancy, this may be our answer.

Zelda, a large part of me wants my doctor to just recommend we head straight to IVF. I am impatient, and we want our baby! Thanks for pointing that out to me. I see my doctor again on Feb 24. I may do Clomid in the meantime just to increase the chances a little before I start injectables. I cannot start injectables next cycle because I am going to Phoenix. Woo hoo- hot weather!

[zelda]

Damnation, Michelina.

What is oligo? And why would you have to go on Clomid?

Okay, we do know he had a relatively normal count once...it could be possible this is an anomaly. I have read that it is common for a man to have a "bad" result once in a while.

Remember Mr. Z's motility was 40%...Mr. M is not terribly far from that. I remember going online and reading frantically about male fertility when we were TTC, and seriously, if a man can produce any sperm at all (which Mr. M can), it is almost certain they can do something with it, even if that means proceeding to IVF.

I have heard you bring up IVF several times...I wonder if for your peace of mind it wouldn't make sense to just go ahead and go straight to that and skip IUI for now. You're impatient like me, and with IVF you might have faster results. Plus I think you'd be excellent candidates.

Thinking of you...please update us.

[Cristine]

Michelina, I am so sorry!! But it's still possible that it could work!

[Michelina]

Thanks everyone for all of your encouragement.

However that went horribly wrong. Mr M's sperm count was 13 / mL and motility was 20%. The concentration was half that of his analysis in July and the motility was much reduced. They could only get 250,000 good sperm in me and they like to see 5 million. I am really upset and have been crying. Now I have to tell Mr M that he may have oligo. I was already concerned that his count was borderline.

I may go on Clomid next month. If the count and motility are still low, I want to move right to IVF.

[nickclick]

good luck Michelina !

[funnybird]

Good luck Michelina! I have everything crossed for you.

[eyelet]

Good luck Michelina. I hope for very fertile follicles.

[Michelina]

I am getting inseminated tomorrow morning!

[Michelina]

Aphelendra, my doctor asked me if I wanted to do the shot. I hadn't even thought about it, but decided not to this time. I am just testing LH with urine, which kinda sucks because now I have to do it in the work bathroom! Anyway, I may do the trigger shot next cycle. It will be the next step on the fertility treatment ladder. The IUI in my clinic is $300 and luckily all of the monitoring is covered by my health card (I'm in Canada and really do feel blessed that all of the tests are covered.) So yes, it is relatively cheap. It sure beats the $10,000 or so I anticipate spending on IVF!

Thanks also for your comments on the cigs and sperm count, Aphelendra. I`m glad to know I`m not alone in chasing the guy around armed with vitamins. I have been giving Mr M a multi every day, and now am also giving both of us a vitamin B complex with additional zinc, vit C, and Vit E. I asked my doctor if she would consider his count borderline low. She said that his total motile count was well above normal (the volume was very high) but agreed that the concentration isn`t all that high. She said I just `may be`the person who needs IUI. I sure hope so!!!

I had my ultrasound on Monday and my dominant follicle was 13mm. She said I have "beautiful ovaries." She is so sweet, but I'm sure she says that to all of the girls. ;-) My doctor believes I will ovulate on Friday, which is CD15 and about typical for me lately. I am a little nervous about it as there is a lot of coordination among the clinic, Mr M, and me. I just want to ovulate and get it over already!

Cristine, I hear you on seeing people with new babies, particularly when in a part of your cycle where there is no hope that you`re pregnant. Are you waiting one more cycle, then heading back to the doctor.

Nickclick, you must be well into the 2 week wait by now!

[aphelendra]

Thanks for the warm welcome from everyone! I think I'm going to like it here . . . .

Micheline - We couldn't do any ovarian stimulation because it tends to aggravate the endo, so no clomid or anything like that. Ovarian stim is usually reserved only for IVF in patients like me, to avoid excess endometrial tissue growth. I did do an Ovidrel "trigger" shot just to ensure that ovulation was complete. Seven days after ovulation I began progesterone supplements, 200 mg lozenges 3x a day.

We actually had the procedure done the morning after I ovulated (cervix had already closed and nurse said no visible CM). We were scheduled to have the insemination on a sunday, but I called on friday and demanded to be seen saturday morning because I was sure I had ovulated or was about to. The tests can be hard to read, so I found it very helpful to pay attention to any other fertile signs, and it ended up being fertile CM that tipped me off. Buggo came from a day 10 egg when I usually ovulate day 12-13!

Also, just wanted to mention that if your stressed about cost, the IUI itself was waaaaaay cheaper than I expected. The procedure was about 450$ including the sperm wash. We also had an ultrasound about a day before ovulation that cost about 300$, plus the cost of the ovidrel and progesterone. Not bad compared to IVF!

Good luck! It may just happen on an unmedicated month!

To Zelda - Congrats on the baby boy! I can't wait for our second trimester ultrasound. Because we were considered high risk, I got to see our Buggo every week from week 6 to week 12, and now I'm going crazy not seeing the little thing! Second trimester must be just great, getting to see something that actually looks slightly human instead of slightly alien. . . .We're definitely going to find out the gender, I'm no good at waiting!

And about that pesky weight gain . . . .I just got myself a Y membership and started swimming for a half hour every day. It's actually quite relaxing, despite the slight embarrassment over my very wobbly thighs!

And to all the ladies with sperm wonderings - Been there! I don't know if anyone's tried it yet, but we were told any over the counter vitamin supplement with high levels of antioxidants (esp. vitmamin E) would improve sperm count over a few months. My mr.'s count was borderline low, but after two month's of vitamins (which i had to chase him around the house to get him to take, grrrrrrrrrrr) his number's were up quite significantly. At our insemination, his post-wash motility count had almost doubled!

He also is a pot smoker, though he did stop temporarily (for about a week) before the IUI. I read somewhere that you can actually temporarily "stone" your sperm. I can't remember the source and haven't decided if this makes some sense or if it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. . . .

As for the ciggie smoking, which the hubs is known to do from time to time, taking antioxidants is sure to help reverse some of the effects of just a few smokes here and there . . . .I would think . . .

christine - I chuckled when I read about your "consolation prize". whenever we didn't conceive I would reward myself by going straight to the store and picking up a six pack of some ridiculously expensive microbrew I would never have otherwise let myself buy. add a few friends to the mix and . . . .carefree fun ensues.

Anyways, sorry again for the ridiculous lengthy post . . . .I shall return now to studying bacterial quorum sensing, which is what I should be doing, although I would much rather be perusing the Babies R Us website . . . .

Happiness and healthiness to all!

[Cristine]

Nickclick, I agree with what everyone has said about the timing of sex. One month we had sex for 6 days straight around my fertile window and that obviously didn't matter, we now do 2-3 over a period of 5 days. It is very hard to mask any disappointment when the guy doesn't come through. I used to tease my husband all the time because he's always told me he could have sex at least once per day, but now that it feels like a task there's many days he's just tired at the thought of it. I try to keep it fun for him and have to make a conscious effort to try not to put any pressure on him. This last month we were taking a break but I of course knew approximately when I was going to ovulate, so one night I just jumped on him and had carefree fun, I'm not pregnant but it was a very nice break. Good luck!

Aphelendra, welcome and congratulations!! And as Zelda said, there is no such thing as TMI here!

Michelina, I didn't think this period would be hard but yesterday we went to my in-laws for a birthday party and saw a 40 year old cousin with a brand new baby! Did not expect that! Anyway, Mr. C & I talked and cried last night... I'm really hoping this happens soon cuz it's just so heartbreaking! I'm so excited to hear about your IUI rounds because I have a feeling that's where we're heading next. We did debate adoption or becoming foster parents last night but it's too big to hash out in one night!

Now today as my period subsides, I'm just looking forward to the Superbowl!! Zelda, I did not want this to be a drinking day but it's a consolation prize! And I really can't believe you're already 23 weeks!! Crazy!

[nickclick]

thanks everyone! i am trying to relax. there is so much information out there. i'm happy to be here. welcome to aphelendra and congrats!

[Michelina]

Oh and welcome Nickclick! I agree with Zelda - babymaking can be stressful and can put a lot of pressure on guys. I also think every second day around your fertile time should be sufficient. I think sex every day can hinder conception when the sperm count is borderline.

Speaking of borderline, while Mr M's count is normal, it is 25 million per mL and WHO says it needs to be at least 20. We just found that out at our last appointment. So his count is not muche higher than the low limit of normal. It may be that I am just not very fertile, and need a very high sperm count. It gives me some more hope for IUI as many more swimmers will make it to the vicinity of my egg!

[Michelina]

Thanks for all of the advice re: smoking cigs vs weed. Mr M and I chatted a little about it and he reassured me it is only 4 per day. I think we'll just leave things be for now. Zelda, I like the idea of pot only on weekends, but I think Mr M would have a hard time not dipping in on weekends if he has it around. He has had some probs with insomnia and I think that he was depending on weed to help him sleep. That seems to have gotten better lately. I know cigs are bad, and I hate the things even though I have the occasional drag to get a buzz. :-) Hopefully once a baby is on the way, he will give it up altogether. We have a long road ahead before that so I will try to just leave it alone for now.

Aphelendra, welcome and congrats! It is really encouraging to hear that IUI worked for you. Did you do medicated IUI and if so, what medication? I am doing unmedicated this month and next, but I'm not really counting that as the success rate for unexplained infertility is actually hardly increased, if at all. My first medicated round is the one that I have more hope for - that will be in April.

I have decided to not have any alcohol or caffeine (except for chocolate - cannot live without that) in the luteal phase now that we are starting treatments. It will be hard, but the stakes are so much greater now that we are spending money. And I just want to do anything and everything to increase our chances.

Jenny, great hearing from you!

Funnybird, I'm glad that you realized that you didn't really want the job anyway. It sounds like maybe things are working out the way they are supposed to.

Cristine, how are you? I hope this period hasn't been an awful one for you. It just makes the disappointment that much worse, I find.

I had a bad period this time around. I had a normal flow until all of a sudden I gushed and blood was all over - right to my mother's couch. I ran to the bathroom and there was blood all over the floor. (I really proved there is no such thing as TMI on this board!) It was awful, but I was so glad that my mommy was there to help me. I said to her "I just wish you were holding my hair as I puked in the toilet rather than this. I would give anything." She just expressed how much she wishes the same. She has been incredibly supportive and she even plans to come with me to Calgary while I do IVF to help with my injections and provide support. Oh and my manager thinks I will get sick time to do IVF. That means a full wage. Woo hoo! Of course there is nothing in our union contract about infertility treatment, but my manager believes I'll get the time off as long as I have a doctor's note.

Feeling pretty good right now.

Have I mentioned how happy I am to have this board and how wonderful all of you Busties are?

[zelda]

Aphelendra...welcome to this thread! Your post made me laugh multiple times. Congrats on your wee one and I hope you come back often. I'm the one with the 18 pound weight gain halfway through, so you're making me feel a little bit better.

Are you going to find out if it's a boy or a girl? Mr. Z and I are having a boy. The second trimester ultrasound is one of the coolest things ever, even if you don't find out the gender.

I'm pretty sure you're the youngest on this thread, but please join us...I have a friend who got pregnant at 25 and she, too, had trouble finding mommy/pregnant friends and communities. By the way, there's no such thing as TMI here, so no worries...and no signature lines with angels and hearts either.

Had to laugh when I read you used to post on the Teen Spirit thread...I am 33 and when I was a teenager, there was no such thing...this is why I spent those days depressed in my bedroom reading Sylvia Plath. That was the early 90s version of Teen Spirit. ;-)

[aphelendra]

Just one thing to add . . .
The month we got preggo the first time, we had sex every day for three weeks straight. Obviously it worked, but I also ended up with a nasty case of BV from doing the deed so often, which is no good for mommies or bubbies! Be careful! Sorry if TMI, but . . .you know.

[aphelendra]

Hello all!

First off, let me tell you all how glad I am to have found this thread. I haven't posted in the Bust lounge since I was young enough to post on the Teen Spirit board, ha ha. Seems like you guys have just about every corner of Mommy-dom covered (pregnancy, infertility, TTC, adoption...).

Anyways, this is my story . . . .

Found out I had endo at 22 (are you there god? it's me leah. this sucks). Hysteria sets in. Who the hell should have to deal with infertility at 22!?!? Is this what I get for responsibly practicing birth control since I was sixteen? Wonderful.

So the Mr. and I decided to make haste with the baby making. Waited about six months after my lap procedure, decided to postpone our wedding, what the hell let's get preggo, I'll take a year off of school and we'll make it work. . . I always dreamed of being an unwed mother with no career . . . (NO judgments to anyone out there in cyber land, we just still had a lot to do before we really wanted to start our family)

Went off the pill, basically expecting nothing. Got pregnant right away! That was too easy, we say. Wow, what were we so worried about? We're so fertile!

Except not. Pregnancy over by the end of week 5, most likely due to a progesterone deficiency, which is very common in women with endo.

So off to the RE we go. We think, this will be easy, right? Sigh. We got to try on our own for three months, with no luck, but lots of yucky shots and progesterone lozenges. Problem with endo is, it's very risky to be off the pill for longer than six months (endo is fueled by ridiculously high estrogen levels, progesterone based BC keeps it all in check and keeps leah from becoming bedridden with month long cramps). So we are told that we have three months left to do IUI and then its on to IVF. At this point, I am positive that we're going to have to go the IVF route anyways, as that's the only option for many women with endo.

Michelina - this one's for you . . . We got pregnant on our very first round of IUI. I had a really weird cycle that month too. The insemination was way less intense and scary than I thought, too.

We are now 16 weeks along and expecting our Buggo in late July. Infertility take that!

And to the poster who has gained 18 pounds by 23 weeks (so sorry I can't remember your name now that I'm typing!) . . . I'm 7 weeks behind you and I've gained 19! My ass will undoubtedly be bigger than yours by the time we pop. If that makes you feel any better!

Sorry about the long post guys. Being 23, I don't have a lot of Mommy friends, especially those who went through infertility treatments, so I'm kind of bursting!

Good luck to all in their pregnancies, on their TTC journeys, and in their adoption plans! Hope I am hearing good news from everyone soon!

[zelda]

PS Nickclick...I just went back and reread your post to make sure I'd answered your question, and I had to laugh because Mr. Nickclick sounds EXACTLY like Mr. Z. He did the same "I'm not sure...." about buying a house and I did a lot of the legwork, and then in the end he got all into it and now is like, "I'm so glad you talked me into buying this house."

Men! ;-)