[koffeewitch]

Have you found out much about eggs? I constantly read that vegetarian-fed chickens given a healthy environment produce eggs with high levels of omega fatty acids and lower levels of cholesterol...but then I read that the conditions of these "humanely" raised chickens are really no better than factory farmed chickens and the whole claim is a petty attempt at justification for the $4/carton price of "organic" eggs.

I'm sorrt of where you are with diet: a long-time vegetarian (not vegan). I drink (and prefer) soymilk, but occasionally I buy rennet-free cheese, organic eggs (when they are on manager's special at the grocery store), and Stoneyfield yogurt. My consumption of animal products is pretty small...I worry more about supporting the terrible meat/dairy industry than I do about the health consequences.

[pepper]

All my research so far, and it's skimpy at best, indicates that the transfats in diary and meat are just as damaging as manufactured transfats. That's one reason why the recommended daily intake is so low (under 2gm/day), most people get enough with a standard diet and any more is overkill.
Big surprise that there is little info to be had and any that there is is couched in mysterious lingo that takes some deciphering. Can't go around saying milk, eggs and meat aren't good for us now can we. Just look what happened to Oprah!

No problem, I can cut out dairy entirely. No sense eating something that we know is terrible for us if we can do without. I won't miss it, it's bungs me up anyhow.

[koffeewitch]

The USDA is such a questionable source on anything that affects their own funding. They still won't admit that there is any difference between organic methods of farming and factory farming in terms of quality of the product (if you can call a cow or egg a "product").

One of my favorite nutritionists is Marion Nestle. She's written a few good books that talk about the chemical make-up of fats, including her latest book "What to Eat". She was the nutritionist interviewed in "SuperSize ME", BTW. Whie I would agree that trans fats in natural foods would be better than in processed foods, it doesn't mean the meat/dairy foods don't still cause heart disease and cancer.

[stargazer]

Hey Pepper, there might be some information through U.S. Dept. of Agriculture. From what I've read, 80% of trans fat is obtained from processed foods and 20% of trans fat are occur naturally in some foods. In regards to trans fat being harmless, from what I've read, it seems like, with most things, moderation/balance is key to any diet. I think the less processed foods one eats then the better your diet and your body's ability to process nutrients and toxins.

ETA: Anyone going to read Eating Animals? Seems like an interesting read.

[pepper]

Hey there ladies, long time no see!
I have been doing some research (trying to anyhow) on naturally occuring transfats with little luck. Does anyone have info specific to the health impact of transfats in meat and dairy?

I found this at wiki

The US National Dairy Council has asserted that the trans fats present in animal foods are of a different type than those in partially hydrogenated oils, and do not appear to exhibit the same negative effects.[37] While a recent scientific review agrees with the conclusion (stating that "the sum of the current evidence suggests that the Public health implications of consuming trans fats from ruminant products are relatively limited") it cautions that this may be due to the low consumption of trans fats from animal sources compared to artificial ones.[4]

I've been googling and asking around but I can't find any research to back up the claim that these naturally occuring transfats are, in fact, harmless. I'm wondering too about the effect of heat on transfats in animal products. We're vegetarian but I'm not adverse to cutting out all animal products altogether. I don't agree with factory farming and can't afford free range organic and don't feel it neccessary to eat anyhow. Eggs and cheese can be tasty but I can easily do without.

Thanks!

[koffeewitch]

I think for most veggies, it becomes very easy to not eat meat. For one thing, I haven't eaten it in so long, I don't even think of it as food anymore. Sometimes when neighbors are having a barbecue, something will smell good, but it's more that I'm responding to the smell of the sauce or the garlic and black pepper.

Also, once you stop eating meat you feel relieved of the guilt enough that you can stomach reading/watching more about the meat industry. Which really strengthens your resolve to go veg.

On the McD's thing...I remember in my early veg years ordering "meatless McMuffins". Every once in awhile I get a craving for one of those egg/cheese mcmuffins. Of course, after so many years of reading things like Fast Food Nation (and watching the film version) and seeing the documentary SuperSize Me, I really even hate to buy coffee from McD's.

From the background info you gave, you strike me as a natural vegetarian. I think the issue might continue to haunt you through out your life if you don't find a way to make peace with it. That's a beautiful thing when a person's sense of ethics prods them to analyze and change their life. Most people prefer to ignore things that make them uncomfortable rather than make difficult personal decisions. I remember being around 20 years old and having flirted with vegetarianism, cutting down on red meat, etc. Then one day I just decided I was never going to eat meat agian. It really was that simple. I didn't know about rennet in cheese, so I continued to eat pizzas and some of the comfort food I enjoyed. (And if the idea of giving up cheese is overwhelming to you, I highly encourage you to keep right on eating it, too. Stay away from people who see this as a contest and want to play "supervegan". There are not too many, but they ARE out there, and vegetarianism should not be about our egos).
In closing, I hope your family is supportive...sometimes mothers can feel a sense of rejection when their children grow up and reject the food they were raised on. If your mom, should feel this way ask her to help you come up with a vegetarian version of one of your childhood favorites so she'll feel needed by you. (I know that sounds nutty, but now that I'm a mommy I understand).
P.S. Asking local farmers about their farming practices is an excellent idea. My family raised chickens and nobody ever debeaked or caged them. They were free to run around as they wished. It likely IS the same way on small Canadian family farms.

[rogue]

Hey KW! Thanks for replying to me. It's awesome that you've been a vegetarian for so long. I mean, I know it sounds stupid but it's just amazing to me when someone can make a committment like you have. I'm just starting out so it's been a little difficult for me - not as bad as I thought it would be - but even this morning I was driving by McD's and really wanted a sausage McMuffin before I remembered that I'm not doing that anymore. And personally, I'm better for it anyway.

As for the egg question, I was thinking about the chickens still being debeaked even if they are free-run chickens. We have a farmer's market here in my city every Saturday morning and I was thinking about going to get my eggs from there and talking to the farmers about it, but even then they could just lie and tell me that they don't mistreat the chickens and I would be none the wiser, you know? I really don't think that such large-scale abuse would happen on farms in my province, though. I know that sounds naive but it's true - I don't think there are really any "corporation farms" here. I could be wrong but it would shock me. And it's not even like I eat a lot of eggs, but I don't want to contribute to any kind of forced egg laying like I've read about, you know?

I just feel really good about this decision to change my lifestyle. It's come at a perfect time - it's easier to do now that I am living on my own and now that I am "allowed" to buy whatever I want because I am paying for all of my own things. It's a long story but with Ex I wasn't allowed to buy anything he didn't like (see the "taking up the whole damn bed" thread; I am a little crazy for lemons right now because of it). Anyway, that's another story. I just feel like I am making the right choice. I won't shove it down other peoples' throats that I don't eat meat. I'm just happy that I've stopped.

[koffeewitch]

I'm "seeing" you all over today, Rogue! I didn't even notice this thread before, I'm so happy you made it pop up on the forum board.

I've been a vegetarian for about 15 years...the reasons you gave for your interest in vegetarianism are nearly identical to my own. The classic works like "Diet for A Small Planet" had a tremendous influence on me. Over the years I've kept reading and learning about the meat industry, the global impact, the waste, the danger to human and animal lives. I feel it's one of the best decisions for me,personally I have ever made.

The great thing about going vegetarian is you set your own moral agenda. Many vegetarians choose to eat free-range eggs and many choose not to. If you eat eggs and later decide you feel uncomfortable eating them, you can simply stop. For most people, vegetarianism is a personal journey. Unfortunately nearly EVERYTHING contains animal products...vinegar, sugar, beer, are some sources most people don't think of. Or there's the rennet (enzymes from the lining of a baby calf's stomach) in most all cheeses. I would say to keep reading and researching and to follow your own sense of ethics.
To specifically address the egg question, I fear the "cage free" label means very little and doen't prevent chickens from being "debeaked". You always have the option of going to small farmers markets for your eggs and asking directly. I grew up in the country and my relatives were small farmers. They let the chickens run all over the place. Sadly the days of family faarms are almost gone. I am not vegan, but I do end up eating most of my meals that way simply because rennet free cheeses are difficult to find/expensive. I have gone through a completely vegan stage before and would never eat out because of the whey in the bread or butter on the veggies in restaurants. I'm not that militant anymore...I wish our society was more veggie/vegan friendly Anyway, good luck with whatever veg. style you decide to go for...whatever it is, I'll bet you feel better doing it.

[rogue]

This thread hasn't been written in for a few months but I need to resurrect it because I have a question or two about becoming a vegetarian (I hope this isn't a purely vegan thread).

I don't eat a lot of meat as it is so it's really no problem to cut it from my diet. I might miss it every so often but I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables (and other meatless/meat-free foods) out of habit so it won't bother me to stop eating it altogether. I've been reading up a lot about vegetarianism online and I guess the more "popular" kind of vegetarianism is lacto-ovoa vegetarianism. That being said, I guess my question is would it be morally wrong to eat eggs as this kind of vegetarian? Even if they come from free-run chickens?

I guess you kind of need some background information. It's kind of hard to explain why I want to become a vegetarian because I have more than one reason - like I said, I don't really eat meat to begin with, I don't feel healthy when I do eat meat (a lot of the times I am very intolerant to it), and also because I am a huge animal lover. If I actually look past the packaging that meat comes in at the grocery store and think about what the animal actually went through to get into that neat, misleading packaging, it just immediately turns me off. I don't want to be part of that. There are also other economical factors I have been reading about as well (eg: how much more resources it takes to "grow" a pound of beef vs. a pound of vegetables). It just makes more sense to me to become a vegetarian and I truly want to be one for myself, not for anyone else or for any "status" it may bring.

I don't know why eggs are of the most concern to me. I don't eat them all the time, but I do enjoy them, I just don't want to eat something that potentially harms the chickens that make them (because I think most everyone these days knows what happens at poultry farms). I guess I'm just wondering what you all think about this, and also if you have any tips or anything for someone who is just starting their journey into this different way of life. I would definitely love to hear anything you have to say.

Honestly, I love the Lounge because pretty much everything has a discussion topic and so many Busties to help out!

[lilacwine13]

I second the Sweet & Sara marshmallows too. They are very good.

[pepper]

vegan marshmallows? really? wicked cool! little will be so thrilled. you should have seen his face when he found out they were made w gelatin. "boiled pig bones? eewww!!"
now we just need to find graham crackers with no hydrogenated oils and we'll be all set!

[auralpoison]

Anyone tried toasting vegan marshmallows before? The only veggie marshmallow I’ve had before is the fluff, and it’s so tacky and disgusting. I want to know if they will work well.

I do know that the Sweet & Sara ones torch just dandy, CN. Had 'em at a BBQ.

[stargazer]

I've never tried vegan marshmallows before, Christine. I guess you could buy them and try them at home first to test them. Let me know how they taste. And congrats on raising your kidlet as a vegetarian.

[Christine Nectar...]

Anyone tried toasting vegan marshmallows before? The only veggie marshmallow I’ve had before is the fluff, and it’s so tacky and disgusting. I want to know if they will work well.

We’re going camping this summer, and I want to make s’mores with kiddo. I never feel like she is being left out or limited in her experience by being raised vegetarian, but I love the ritual of melting marshmallows to make s’mores! It was an integral part of my childhood, and I get excited to think about doing it!

[sassy]

For my vet tech class night, I had to practice skin scrapings on chicken livers! It was so gross. And people actually eat those things...

[pepper]

sucanat is just dried cane sugar juice, not much processing at all.

so many things aren't vegan or veg, like glue. envelops, stamps, stickers. sigh.

[sassy]

Yep, I knew about the sugar. It sucks. When I read "Vegan Freak", there were lots of things I didn't realize had animal products in them. Regular condoms aren't even vegan. They have a milk protein in them.

[tankgirl]

most brown sugar and regular sugar is processed through bone. It is VERY hard to find vegan sugar in general.

[crazyoldcatlady]

vegweb

this is the site that i like, finally got around to posting.


as a side note, did ya'll know that brown sugar isn't vegan friendly? something about the cane being filtered through bone particular matter.

jesus christ. it's hard enough to try to avoid gelatin, and now this left-field shit.

[sassy]

I was vegetarian for 8 years before I became vegan (a year in December!). I had been wanting to do it for a long time, but I loved cheese. I finally got some sense knocked into me when I read "Vegan Freak" which basically told me all the reasons why I knew I should cut out the dairy. The transition itself was kind of intimidating. I have no close friends that are vegetarian, much less vegan, so I was on my own. My husband wasn't too excited either because he knew it would seriously limit the places we could go out to eat at. (Don't get me wrong, he is supportive. But by me becoming vegan, he eats vegan a lot too since I cook. So it kind of got forced onto him...). I got several cookbooks and started working with alternatives to eggs (bananas work great!). It's getting easier every day and I feel 100% proud of myself now knowing that I took that extra step to cut out all animal products. I still miss cheese, though!

(On a side note, switching all of my bath/makeup/cleaning/etc products was a pain in the ass. That may have been more difficult than switching foods. I still can't find a great, affordable vegan shampoo.)