[neurotic.nelly]

When we look into the mirror, we hear the voice of our Zeitgeist, and we judge ourselves based on those standards, or we don't. The choice is yours in that moment.
So, V, when you look in the mirror, you're still judging yourself based on other's values, not just the mens, but our society as a whole, men and women. We all do it or think it or feel it because we are indoctrinated to it as children. To see ourselves, as we are, and to choose to love and accept ourselves is where its at. And I hope this is clear. But it is as clear as I can make it, being inebriated.

[Vendetta]

Men may play a part is this equation but we can only be affected by them if there's a problem about the way we view ourselves. In my opinion, or in my life, worries about men are only a consequence. Or women, in my case. And they're a consequence because they are part of my life and, sexually, they are gonna touch my buttons. Insecurities I didn't have so intensely two years ago so I can tell the difference between the two stages of mind. And it was a man who gave them to me, cause he changed the way I viewed myself. I was weak. But I don't think of any man when I look at myself in the mirror.

[dj-bizmonkey]

let's not kid ourselves ladies, we do spend a significant portion of our time in here discussing how men have made us feel inadequate, how we wish men paid more attention to our breasts as well as praising men who have loved our breasts and how good it makes us feel.

that being said, i don't think our issue can be boiled down to a simple equation. i also don't think vendetta was suggesting that, but more throwing it out there to see what the rest of us have to say. am i right, v?

anyhow, the issue (obviously) is complex and intricate. for me, i think it is much of our value as women, whether we like it or not, is outwardly evaluated and based on our level of attractiveness. i don't like it any more than the next person, but i think this is an evolutionary, worldwide phenomenon. BUT, that isn't all that makes us valuable, and certainly any man or woman will tell you that what they look for in a partner goes far deeper than any one physical attribute. however we are taught, rather, indoctrinated by mainstream media, that our only value lies in the physical and in our case, our small tits just aren't up to snuff. i believe we want to fit the mold, be 'up to snuff,' and part of that is receiving attention from the opposite sex (in our heteronormative, mainstream culture).

i am playing devil's advocate here, but i think each and every one of us, whether consciously or subconsciously cares what men think of our bodies far more than we would like to admit. i also think that this yearning to be attractive is both preordained (as in, it is hardwired in our brains) and the result of belligerent cultural reinforcement. our challenge as feminists and as women in general is to name the beast that torments us and fight back with our confidence, our intellect, our passion. the battles we engage in are exhortations to the rest of humanity that these standards of value based on physical attractiveness are at best, glib and facile interpretations of us as individuals. our battles may begin here in this forum, with powerful words of defiance and strength, but they radiate out into the 'real' world.

so, long story short, our desire for bigger breasts cannot be boiled down to a simple explanation. it is multi-faceted. but we must be absolutely honest with ourselves and why we think the things we do if we expect to make any positive progress. i am very proud of every woman in this forum who is willing to bare her insecurities to an audience, and i believe that is a step in the right direction for all of us.

you have all helped me immensely, more than you'll probably ever realize......

((((you))))

[purplestain]

I don't think anyone in this thread would purposefully imply such a generalization. Wanting boobs, as lightchested and many others so eloquently informed P Lover Ray, often has ZERO to do with male attention....

... but, you know, occasionally it does.

[Vendetta]

So wanting boobs = male attention?

[karategrrl]

I guess really I should just be happy I have my health.

I am very conscious of never taking that for granted. I've had very few health issues in my life, and I am grateful. As much as I'd love to have B-cups, there are plenty of B-cup women out there in the world who don't have things I have, like working legs, eyes that see, ears that hear, all my fingers and toes, etc. I try not to lose perspective. It feels much better and I am much happier feeling grateful for what I have than lamenting what I don't have. when I look at it that way, having small breasts seems like a really silly thing to waste my time feeling bad about. Yeah, given my choice, I'd have all I have, plus just another bit of mammary (or fat or whatever) in my "chesticles." But I'm not going to feel like crap over it.

[honeybunch]

Sometimes I like to tell myself I'm so hot I don't need boobs

I guess really I already get a good amount of male attention. I guess really I should just be happy I have my health.

[Vendetta]

yeah, that's one of the bustiers I wanted, but I'm 30AA so that size 1 doesn't fit.

[crinoline]

lol dj , I'm glad I'm not the only one who attached that connotation to "bm"

nelly- I love that sentiment "The only way to lose the fat is to love it" .
I think it's pretty true to life. When I was 30 pounds heavier (the largest I've ever been, I wore an 8) I just kept gaining weight because I was so miserable, hating myself. Then Crinoboy re-entered the picture, and even though he had once dated me when I was much thinner, he loved me the way I was. So then I learned to love it, and before I knew it I was melting away.

I do miss those 34Bs, it was so easy to buy a bra. But, like dj, I developed the habit of holding them when I went up stairs because I was so unused to the jiggle. It feels foreign and uncomfortable to me. I still hold them if I'm like running to the phone or something.

With my current small-boobedness I made a great bra score when I found a honeydew bralette in light green microfiber with nude lace. It feels like wearing nothing, but it keeps me contained enough for class.

oh, and wasn't someone in here lusting after an Intimissimi bustier a while back? Here it is for $20! I'm a 30 - 32A and I can wear their size "1" with no problem

[Christine Nectar...]

OT - of course dj-bizmonkey, no prob *tsk tsks self for lazy typing habits*

[neurotic.nelly]

Hey Welcome Back DJ! I would like to lose about 25lbs, but I am not overweight in the slightest, IMO. I feel healthy, and I can climb a mountain without passing out, although I am not at my most prime. I have to love my weight because when I was a size 6 or 8 I used to tell my size 16 and more-to-love girlfriends that they were beautiful and that they should love their fat. I used to tell them that the only way to lose the fat was to love it. So, now I am practising what I preached, as I start my new gym membership this week. Yay for working out, and Yay for being a sexy pear shaped thang!!

I like wireless bras with a soft cup, but no heavy padding. I have several bras that are padded with underwire and they are so cheap and uncomfortable, I never wear them. I have two bras that are wireless with soft cups and I wear them all the time. They are falling apart, and my goal this week is to get at least two new bras. I like going braless but only in tops that have a little support, otherwise I feel self conscious and inappropriate because they jiggle a little bit. Why should I feel inappropriate about a little jiggle? How would it feel to have a lot of jiggle? Yikes.

This society has made breasts, almost, taboo. We mustn't see them for what they really are. They are overly sensualized. Covered, and coveted.

The attention placed upon breasts is strange to me and I am glad I do not have to deal with them too much. I like em' small.

[karategrrl]

my one lament is that P Lover Ray deleted his posts. the voyeur within me really wanted to read about how to tighten my pussy.


ETA- Christine Nectar, *waves back* i know you abbreviated for well, brevity's sake, but do you mind just calling me dj? dj-bm just made me think of dj-bowel movement.

Bwah ha!!!! Welcome back, um, "DJ!" I'd been wondering about you!

Yep, although P Lover went up all our asses (not pussies) sideways, I have to say it really was entertaining--really shook things up.

[dj-bizmonkey]

just to jump in here with the whole bra discussion. i've definitely said it before, but i especially loathe padded bras. they always look fake on my and i hate bumping into people and feeling the fabric and not my flesh compress. i am also paranoid that they can feel or see the fakeness of them too.

in the past, i absolutely loved going braless, and if i lost some weight (and my bigger boobs with it) i would probably go back to it. these days i have to strap them down. it's not like i suddenly got huge knockers, not by a long shot, but they are significantly bigger. i was on the AA-A cusp, now i'm a barely-barely B. i had a tryst with my ex over the winter break from school and he was shocked at how big they had gotten. i live in a camelback shotgun house and have to go up some winding stairs to get to my room. i find myself clutching them as i dash up and down the stairs because i'm not used to having this much range of motion. in the past they would just sit there.

before anyone feels even the slightest twinge of longing for my new found boobage, i must add a caveat. i have gained a lot of weight over the past 6 months. a LOT. like, 40 pounds, so there are other things afoot with my body that i am NOT happy about. i am built much like neurotic nelly, small trunk, huge ass. i love my booty too, it has always been the focal point of male attention. a random aside, one of my bustier lady friends once said to me, 'you know, you just THINK that men aren't staring at you because you don't have big boobs, but you only think that because they are all staring at you from behind!' but i digress. to be perfectly honest, i would gladly go back to my smaller breasts if it meant i could have my old body back. i've been going to the gym, trying to eat better and all that, but it will be an uphill battle to get rid of all this extra.

i used to have a tiny, toned waist and that has now formed into a soft, jiggly belly. i HATE it. in fact, i wouldn't even mind the extra weight in my face, thighs, butt and arms, if it meant that i could have my stomach back.

sigh.

more ramblings on that subject belong in a different thread, i think.

sooo, back to bras? ahh yes, where was i.....no padding for me, but i completely understand why some one might want that. i just hate manufacturers assume that we want padding. actually, one of my favorite bras is an older, fake wonderbra knock-off, but you can remove the padding. see, i like underwire because it gives me a nice round shape as opposed to the 'coney-boob' look. so a wonderbra without padding was perfect, most of the shape without the extra fabric.

as another side note, i had a different tryst with a different ex over the winter break as well. i have been a busy lady......anyway. i was slowly getting undressed one evening and when i took off my bra with ex said, 'god.' and just stared. i said, 'what these little things?' he smiled greedily and said, 'yeah, i love em'
it was definitely a confidence boost. it reminded me of another time he had complimented me, 10 years ago when we were first dating. we were riding in the car and he reached over and gently cupped my breast and said, 'these are perfect.'

double sigh.

anyway, as a closing note, i'd like to give a shout out to all the ladies who have been posting here for the last 10-15 pages. i went back through everything and it took me the better part of an evening. overall, i was most impressed by the clarity, comedy, insight, insult, suffering and support coming out of all your mouths. my one lament is that P Lover Ray deleted his posts. the voyeur within me really wanted to read about how to tighten my pussy.

love to all my busties!

ETA- Christine Nectar, *waves back* i know you abbreviated for well, brevity's sake, but do you mind just calling me dj? dj-bm just made me think of dj-bowel movement.

[Christine Nectar...]

hi dj-bm! *waves*

i rarely wore a bra until i was pregnant/nursing. since then, i usually do wear one, and i alternate between thin contoured cups, and small or large padding. it all depends on what i'm wearing, and how i'm feeling. it's nice to have the option of looking good in different kinds of tops! i ALWAYS wear one at work, since it doesn't seem like the appropriate place to draw any attention to my body. at home, and sometimes going out socially, i'll gladly go braless.
occasionally it's depressing when i'm trying on clothes and have trouble filling anything out, but for the most part i feel luckier than women who have large breasts, and have no choice!

[dj-bizmonkey]

hellooooooo ladies!

i'm just crawling out from under my rock to say i'm sorry i've been MIA for so long. i've had ridiculous amounts of work to do, and i find that the more time that passes after my last post on BUST that the harder it is for me to come back. being here is a kind of commitment and i pretty much failed my end of the bargain. it's silly, i feel an unnecessary amount of guilt over not reading or posting, so much so that it kept me from visiting until today. pretty stupid right?

so here i am, for those that can remember back far enough to my last post. i'm going to try and be around more often, but i may have to dip in and out of contact in the future.

now, i'm going to take the time to go back and read some old posts and with hope, re-join the conversation!

[karategrrl]

There's this scene in the A&E miniseries Ivanhoe, where Rebecca, dressed in a long white shift, is tied to a stake on a heap of firewood for being a witch, while Brian de Bois-Guilbert and Ivanhoe fight to prove whether she is or is not a witch - and all I could think was, "OK, this is supposed to be in medieval times, so no bras, right? Will they dare show nipple pokage?" They did.

I'm always intrigued by breast realism (or lack thereof) in film. More examples:

Realistic:
300, where all the hot ladies had small, natural breasts!!!! No bras!! Yess!

Not realistic:
Casino Royale, where Bond Girl gets out of bed with Bond, puts blouse on (sans bra). In the next shot, she is wearing one! (She was a tad saggy without it.)

Tomb Raider, where Angelina Jolie is flying on a trapeze-type thing, dressed for bed in her pajamas, wearing a BRA. Yeah.

Any film with implanted femme fatales. Sorry, I find realism sexy. Speaking of which:

Okay, I have to share a dream I had last night (I swear, really): Dreamed I was in some sort of business waiting area. Chris Noth (Big from Sex and the City) was there, struck up a conversation with me, and was staring at my chest. Finally, he is like, "I've got to be frank with you--I really like your confidence! I find it verrrry sexy!" It was then that I looked down and realized I was proudly TOPLESS. Hahaha! And I don't even have a thing for Chris Noth in real life, though I guess he is good-looking.

[Vendetta]

http://condor.depaul.edu/~mwilson/extra/multicultur/nora.htm

[anarch]

what is the point of underwire on a barely 32 a cup?? haha like...seriously. there's not that much to support it just digs in and is mass painful

I used to rely on underwire bras to stop the damned cups from creeping up, as in, bottom of the bra was heading up towards my nipples (not enough boob to make it stay where it was supposed to), and I'd have to wrench discreetly at it to put it back where it belonged. I've found that more recent wireless bras don't creep, so I wear those, with just enough padding to avoid the "radio dial" problem. If it's cold and I've got a few layers on, I don't bother with bras at all.

There's this scene in the A&E miniseries Ivanhoe, where Rebecca, dressed in a long white shift, is tied to a stake on a heap of firewood for being a witch, while Brian de Bois-Guilbert and Ivanhoe fight to prove whether she is or is not a witch - and all I could think was, "OK, this is supposed to be in medieval times, so no bras, right? Will they dare show nipple pokage?" They did.

[honeybunch]

I actually like going braless.

I have some fond memories, and I probably gave some guys some very fond memories.

Once a date I didn't wear a bra. I was wearing a sweater so I didnt think it was that noticeable. Well, by the end of the night he told me I had beautiful breasts. <3 <3 <3 <3

Other time it's awkward. One time I had a whole family stare at me. Since then I've been less blatant.

[karategrrl]

I have a question for the women on this forum:
And don't even get me started on non-smallies who pad! My best friend has implants and wears Victoria's Secret most padded bra to enhance them even more!!!

That drives me insane, too. Absolutely fricking nuts.

strongirl, thanks for sharing that info about the magazine poll. Let me say this--I am pleasantly surprised!

As for the "to pad or not to pad" question, I discovered as a teen that underwire bras (even non-padded) seemed, for some reason, to make me look a teensy bit bigger, so I wore them. Now, I generally wear lightly padded underwire teen bras--I like the little bit of shape/nipple modesty they gives me. Generally, more bras are available in underwire than not. It's hard enough to find bras that fit and look right to begin with--if I eliminated underwires as an option, I'd really be up shit's creek. Also, as many here have already said, most bras in small sizes have padding equivalent to the amount found in an average sofa. The teen bras don't have that--just a tad. I don't want to look like Dolly Parton--I just want to look professional at work/not get harassed in the frozen food aisle of the grocery store (cold=massive nipplage).