[anaisnin]

hi everyone, im a lurker but new poster..

i'm a small breasted girl myself..a cup, but the rest of me is small.

i was wondering if anyone had bra recs for a cups? i'm opposed to getting flatout PADDING in bras, i feel like it makes my boobs look really odd+false advertising. however, i like slightly "thicker" bras with underwire.. what brands do you girls prefer?

[karategrrl]

Okay, I tried.

Vendetta, sounds like you have thought through the implant option very seriously. Get them.

(Just to clarify, I'm being straightforward, not bitchy--emotion doesn't come across well in typing.)

[honeybunch]

Vendetta, here's a (((HUG)))

I also feel like my body doesn't match my personality. I feel very sexual, but I don't feel like my breasts represent that. I don't want to be big breasted, I just wanted to have enough for some kind of cleavage. I'd be happy with a full B or C cup. I was a D cup once, and that was too much for me.

ETA: Not to mention it's VERY tricky trying to where some sexy tops with small breasts. My breasts don't sag at all, and I'd be too afraid of a mishap.

I still think there would be male-female differences. There's still going to be a difference in shape. And there are plenty of other differences between men and women besides breasts.

[Vendetta]

honestly think if we lived in a world where small breasts were perceived as more "womanly," "sexy," etc. than large breasts, for example, lots more women would be having reduction surgery than implant surgery.

I have nothing against small breast, in fact I do prefer smaller to bigger but if bras, and cleavage and tops and bikinis are womanly stuff, why would anyone in a parallell world want to reduce their breasts to an AA cup size like mine so that they couldn't wear any of those? Women have breasts, so I can't suppose what it would be if we didn't. Where would the man-woman difference be? I really could forget about the bras and stuff and wear t-shirts all the time, but why would I want that?

[Vendetta]

I won't blame the media for feeling the way I feel about my breasts. If I had been pretty happy about myself for 23 years, I won't blame the tv for feeling like this at 24 years old. It's all about me, no one has ever told me I had a problem, in fact, people usually find me attractive so I guess my flat chest is only a problem for me. I will have the money for surgery right on this year, I'm pretty sure and I had thought about it long enough to know I'd rather spend my energy on lingerie stores than on trying to convince myself that it's okay that I'll never know what it's like to have breasts. No, it's not okay. I wear the same AA Cup size as I did when I was 11 so I guess that at 24 it's ridiculous to be expecting them to grow. At pregnancy, it can happen both ways: they can grow and stay or they can deflate after breastfeeding which I think it is the most probable situation as I know and had seen and read about a million A or AA cup women. I only plan to get pregnant at sometime near 30's so I really don't want to wait that long to know.
I don't want to wear a DD cup on my chest and have all men turning their heads on me. They turn their heads already and my supposed breasts are only two A cup silicone inserts. I just DO NOT want to have supposed breasts. I don't want to have to take my breasts off at the end of the day. I don't want to come out from a lingerie store bringing the panties and leaving the bra. I don't want to dress up for a dinner with my boyfriend and feel totally ridiculous in front of him because I grew up one or two cup sizes in 10 minutes just to fit that special top. And I want to feel womanly when I'm in bed with him, without having him being confused if that is my nipple ring or just my ribcage. If I have to spend a huge amount of money and take some health risks, I will. I will choose the best surgeon for me and get informed of everything I should do and shouldn't do, and do it right. I'm not trying to fit some social mold, I'm trying to fit the image I have of myself. I see myself as a very feminine, very sexual, very powerful woman with body and brains and it pisses me off that I have to wear lots of padding to fit my powerful mold. I'm a sucessful imobiliary agent, I've got my own house and car and pay for my own bills, I pay for my own photography classes and I photograph beautiful bare breasts every week, I've got a band and play guitar bass in it so I'm active and smart, I'm not shallow and I believe my reasons to want to have that surgery are pretty fair. I'm not some dumb blonde bimbo who wants to go from a B cup to a DD cup for wrong reasons.

[karategrrl]

Why does everyone assume that if a woman wants implants, she's trying to fit a mold or being affected by society or whatever? I don't live in the states, I don't know if pressure there is bigger than here in Portugal, but never in my whole life I have tried to fit some social mold. Why is that so difficult to believe that some women just want breasts for theirselves? We can't blame the tv for everything. We dye our hair, shave our legs, spend lots of money on lotions and cellullite gel and all that crap to feel better about ourselves, and are you going to blame the tv for all that money spent? Isn't all that money worth it when you have the best laid of your life because you feel like a princess on that special day? Why are breasts different for that matter, if for some women they are important for their womanhood or sexuality? Sexuality is in our minds. That playmate shown here is really smokin' hot and I do believe women like her should appear more but I just wish I had half of her breast tissue. I should be happy because I don't need to wear a bra but no, I'm unhappy because I CAN'T wear one. Is that a crime that I just want to be able to wear a bra, someday?

Hey Vendetta, Sorry you are feeling frustrated.

To clarify, I think we are all affected by others' opinions and the culture in which we live to some degree. I mean, if a handful of us were to be shipped off to some remote tribe in Africa, I'd bet anything that after a few years, we'd all have at least something inherent to that culture--a lip plate, some tribal tattoos, grass skirt, etc. I truly understand your frustration, because, hey, I have often wished the same thing--to have something to put in a bra. However, to clarify I honestly think if we lived in a world where small breasts were perceived as more "womanly," "sexy," etc. than large breasts, for example, lots more women would be having reduction surgery than implant surgery. We could say that about lots of things--if grey hair wasn't largely considered "old-looking," no one would want to dye their hair. If leg hair was largely considered sexy, most women would not shave it. that's all I'm saying.

I have mixed feelings about the playmate photos. On one hand, I do like seeing a smaller-breasted woman portrayed in a way that is "as sexy as" women with larger chests. However, I do overall feel that porn is at least somewhat degrading to women, in the sense of women being portrayed as a "product" for men to rate/ogle/masturbate over/use. (We've discussed this before.) But my feelings aside, thanks for sharing, because it is good to know what's out there if for no other reason than to be a better informed person.

I wll leave you all with this:

I was looking over a swimsuit catalog with someone at work. I was looking at all the suits I "cannot wear" because they have no padding/would not be flattering to my breasts. She has very large breasts, and commented on all the suits she cannot wear b/c the tops have no support/underwire. "My breasts fall out under the bottom otherwise," she said. Just goes to show, we all have our clothing issues when it comes to breast size--not just us smaller ladies.

Hope everyone has a great day!

[honeybunch]

yes.ummm, yes and yes.

as to the period question, there is absolutely no reason why you should have to have your period every month, every three months or even every three years. amenorrhea/pregnancy are the more 'natural' states of women. if we were living back in the day, we would have been pregnant in our teens (maybe only a year or two after menarche) nursing for 2 to 4 years (which also suppresses ovulation/menses) and then probably as soon as we started ovulating again, we'd get pregnant. we have this enormous store of oocytes but we don't have the time to have them all fertilized and raised up. i've talked to countless gynos about this issue because i HATE getting my period. when bc was first invented, doctors modeled it after a 21-day cycle, which was fairly arbitrary as the follicular phase of most women is highly variable. they installed the time for "period" to make women feel not only more comfortable and natural, but also is 'proof' that you aren't pregnant. the endometrial lining you shed when you take your sugar/placebo pills is not actually a true menses, just the semblances of one. you also aren't ovulating at all, so you aren't shedding an egg. everyone has to pick what they are most comfortable with, and i had concerns about it at first too. i tell you what, i am never looking back though. there are also some preliminary reports that being on birth control for 5 years and then going off of it can significantly increase your fertility. maybe because you aren't shedding eggs? i dunno, because part of the problems in fertility at later ages is the degredation of follicle quality over time.

Yep, that's true. Heck, in some cultures women nurse for up to 7 years with no periods (lucky them), wean, have a few periods, get pregnant and nurse, and the cycle starts all over again. It's probably abnormal from a biological perspective for us to have monthly cycles. It's only bad to not have periods if you have the female athlete triad (starvation diet, too much exercise, etc).


I talked to my SO about my breast issues. He thinks I'm crazy lol. He says he doesn't get it. I don't get how he can't get it-he's a man, and I thought of all people he would understand how bigger breasts are more popular but I guess not.

[neurotic.nelly]

Vendetta, I do understand what you are saying. That just fucking sucks for you!!! Do you have expendable income to spend on that kind of surgery? Would you be willing to go through with it if you did? If not, then try focusing on the things you like about yourself. Another way to look at things, is that, if you ever got pregnant your breasts would grow to probably a b cup or something!! And they might stay that way afterwards. I have also heard of women growing in their late 20's and 30's. I swear mines are still growing, which does make me happy.

The media/society/culture probably effects a lot of what most people do, feel, say, behave etc. What I like about your post is that you are taking responsibility for how you feel about your breast situation. It sounds like you've thought about it critically. At the end of the day, it's you and your breasts.

[Vendetta]

Why does everyone assume that if a woman wants implants, she's trying to fit a mold or being affected by society or whatever? I don't live in the states, I don't know if pressure there is bigger than here in Portugal, but never in my whole life I have tried to fit some social mold. Why is that so difficult to believe that some women just want breasts for theirselves? We can't blame the tv for everything. We dye our hair, shave our legs, spend lots of money on lotions and cellullite gel and all that crap to feel better about ourselves, and are you going to blame the tv for all that money spent? Isn't all that money worth it when you have the best laid of your life because you feel like a princess on that special day? Why are breasts different for that matter, if for some women they are important for their womanhood or sexuality? Sexuality is in our minds. That playmate shown here is really smokin' hot and I do believe women like her should appear more but I just wish I had half of her breast tissue. I should be happy because I don't need to wear a bra but no, I'm unhappy because I CAN'T wear one. Is that a crime that I just want to be able to wear a bra, someday?

[karategrrl]

"my problem is not the surgery itself, but that the society we live in practically demands it of women..we have to get to the root of the problem and not just treat the symptoms...i think every concept in this world is subject to moral gradients. we all decide where our cut-off points are, but there are no absolutes. case in point, i don't like the idea of implants and i think they are unnatural, unhealthy and counter-productive. but i, like karategrrl, would be happy to preform some sort of procedure that would naturally make my breasts bigger. i'm not exactly taking the moral high-ground. in my mind it seems to be silicone=fake, unnatural, and natural=good. even beyond implants, i wouldn't discount the possibility of getting some work done when i get older. maybe i'll have a waddle i want to do away with or something. my good friend works as a secretary in a plastic surgeon's office. she always tells me, 'never say never, one day you may feel just the opposite."

I agree. I feel women are treating the symptoms, not the underlying self-esteem issues, when they get many, many kinds of procedures done. And the growing availability and popularity of such procedures only perpetuates the "fix my body, not my attitude about my body" behavior. And yes, I guess I am being something of a hypocrite when I say that, because I wear makeup, dye my hair, etc. but none of those things are, to me, extreme--certainly not as extreme as having my skin cut open and having foreign objects permanantly inserted into my chest, permanent scars, and living with the constant knowledge that those bags of saline, silicone, soybean oil or whatever could at any time rupture, move, or cause a host of other problems.

"i'm not sure that i don't judge women who get implants. i'm pretty sure i do. it's not fair or righteous, but i have to admit it. i think they look silly and fake. i also think that i makes it that much more difficult to be a small-breasted woman walking around in america. maybe that's not the most popular viewpoint and it's certainly not the most open-minded and accepting, but i have to own up to how it makes me feel."

I agree. What upsets me most about the whole issue is the overall trend--I find it astonishing how many women actually do this, and that by doing so, it makes it more "normal" to be so altered. I like what DJ said so well:

"in their world, appearance is important, it is more important than overall wellbeing."

This is true. Neurotic.nelly brought up a good point when she mentioned the cat lady and such (who looked tons better before all her surgeries). I've read articles where surgeons say they have clients who are never satisfied--once they get something "fixed," their dissatisfaction focuses elsewhere on their body, and they're back for more surgery.

[neurotic.nelly]

ps. neurotic nelly. i think that's the point strongirl was making... we all do have to duck stones frequently simply being women. why not, instead of perpetuate the stonings, try to make life a little easier on eachother as women. knowing that we all do endure similar struggles and realize part of the intention of being a feminist (IMHO) is to encourage the liberation and empowerment of women of all social and cultural backgrounds.

I hear what you are saying, and I agree. I think the point I was eluding to was more along the lines of this: if one is having self esteem issues around breast size that is persistent and obsessive, this is something that one should look at because ultimately the obsession is only a symptom of a larger self esteem issue and getting breast implants will not resolve them. It is so sad and dangerous to see women with self esteem issues or image issues with expendable income go under the knife again, and again, and again.
Just look at lil kim, and the cat lady, or Michael Jackson for that matter.
I was trying to say that women should take responsibility for their emotional issues around body image issues because women and feminists are not always nice and liberating and empowering towards eachother, and I'd like to promote strength as a feminst as well as the other qualities that you pointed out knorl. That's all I got right now. Adios!

[honeybunch]

I don't need the media or society to tell me that something's "wrong" with me, I just need to leave the house and take a walk around to look at every other women and figure out that they have something that I don't. Some small busties don't care about it, others do. Some women feel incomplete, others don't. We're not all the same. So why should people criticize those who choose to do something for theirselves, if there's an option nowadays? Not everyone wants to have double D's on their chest and not everyone is stupid enough to do it. Some people just want to have "something", to feel complete. So why shouldn't we respect some people's options?

That's very true. I don't know why people always blame it on TV. It's pretty obvious when I go out to see that most women even skinnier ones usually have bigger breasts than me. I'm not sure why people think I want big breasts, either. I've experienced D cup, and I didn't like it. I just want to be average-a C. I want to be able to wear a regular tank top and have cleavage.

[dj-bizmonkey]

oboi. i still take the same stance. it's fine for others who feel they need it, but not for me. do i judge women who get implants? not so much. but i do know that those who go through with the procedure are not individuals that i can relate to on a deeper level, so i modify my interaction accordingly.

me three. my problem is not the surgery itself, but that the society we live in practically demands it of women. not only implants, but facelifts, botox, collagen injections, liposuction etc. we have to get to the root of the problem and not just treat the symptoms.

i'm not sure that i don't judge women who get implants. i'm pretty sure i do. it's not fair or righteous, but i have to admit it. i think they look silly and fake. i also think that i makes it that much more difficult to be a small-breasted woman walking around in america. maybe that's not the most popular viewpoint and it's certainly not the most open-minded and accepting, but i have to own up to how it makes me feel.

i think every concept in this world is subject to moral gradients. we all decide where our cut-off points are, but there are no absolutes. case in point, i don't like the idea of implants and i think they are unnatural, unhealthy and counter-productive. but i, like karategrrl, would be happy to preform some sort of procedure that would naturally make my breasts bigger. i'm not exactly taking the moral high-ground. in my mind it seems to be silicone=fake, unnatural, and natural=good. even beyond implants, i wouldn't discount the possibility of getting some work done when i get older. maybe i'll have a waddle i want to do away with or something. my good friend works as a secretary in a plastic surgeon's office. she always tells me, 'never say never, one day you may feel just the opposite.'

we are social creatures. everyone one wants to be accepted by some one and anyone that tries to tell you different is selling something. but i like what anarch said about constructing your own environment to reflect your own convictions. i suppose that could be interpreted as what women who get plastic surgery are doing. in their world, appearance is important, it is more important than overall wellbeing. it is the trump card. so they make sure it's the best it can be.

[karategrrl]

but i do know that those who go through with the procedure are not individuals that i can relate to on a deeper level, so i modify my interaction accordingly.

Me too.

[knorl05]

oboi. i still take the same stance. it's fine for others who feel they need it, but not for me. do i judge women who get implants? not so much. but i do know that those who go through with the procedure are not individuals that i can relate to on a deeper level, so i modify my interaction accordingly. i can look at it from both sides and realize there are women who feel validated through implants and feel having larger breasts completes them as a woman. different priorities is all. point being, i'm pro-choice in many different areas of life.

ps. neurotic nelly. i think that's the point strongirl was making... we all do have to duck stones frequently simply being women. why not, instead of perpetuate the stonings, try to make life a little easier on eachother as women. knowing that we all do endure similar struggles and realize part of the intention of being a feminist (IMHO) is to encourage the liberation and empowerment of women of all social and cultural backgrounds.

[neurotic.nelly]

yeah, what karategrrl said.

I duck stones all the time in this world, from everywhere. Sometimes I get hit, I've got to pick myself up. That's self esteem. No one can make you feel inadequate, not your friends or your boyfriends or the media. That's responsibility for yourself and your feelings.

I am not saying that we should criticize women who want a little more "cush" than they've got to make them feel more "normal". I can understand this, and maybe even support it.

Short story:

I friend of mine's boyfriend offered to pay for her breast implants. She was going to get them. Her reason was this. She is a big girl, over 200 lbs, big arms, big legs, big head, big mouth, big eyes, big but, and tiny breasts (A cups). She felt that getting breasts implants would balance out her body. I agreed. No criticism. I supported her. It made sense to me. She's beautiful now, though.

I think of myself as having small breasts, but I have got a little something there, and they grow during ovulation and such. I have to acknowledge that it must be easier for me to be pro-small breasts. Then again, I find women with smaller breasts attractive as well.

[karategrrl]

Well, since the board has taken an implant-supportive shift, I won't post those photos of the implanted women from my workout book.

I am a little confused...haven't we been saying all along how we should feel good about ourselves so we don't have to go to lengths such as implantation to feel "complete?" No, I don't think we should go around verbally abusing women (or throwing stones at) women who get implants. But isn't true liberation about being free from expectations, not being free to get implants?

Yes, there are some definite grey areas when one compares implants with other practices such as tattoos, hairstyling, body piercing, etc. Every culture has its version of body adornment. I think what is critical is the motivation behind it, however--when one does something for fun/to express themself, etc. versus when one cannot feel good about themself or feel "complete" without doing something drastic and full of health risks--such as implants.

[knorl05]

strongirl: i share your approach toward feminism and have so much respect and appreciation of your views. thx for the link too.. def encouraging.

"And part of being supportive is not criticizing what they do to feel better about themselves, whether that is implants, Botox, or whatever. Implants are unnatural but so are piercings, tattoos, mascara, and even shampoo for that matter.."

excellent point. we all participate in social grooming practices (..improvements and modifications) to various degrees. if we want to get completely purist, we could say that one of the reasons fashion emerged was to signify status and draw attention to ourselves. and that for an extremely long time, we've been changing our appearances in different ways to make ourselves more physically attractive.. and not all of the ways we've done this are considered healthy. we are social creatures. much of what we do, whether consciously or not, is the result of other people's perceptions of us. i dont think anyone is completely free of the influence within any culture, community, or society. we can strive to make ourselves more aware, but i think that in order to identify with those of whom we relate, we have to conform our behaviors to that of those around us. without that element of conformity, or assimilation, we wouldnt have as many opportunities for growth and development as individuals imo.

that being said.. anarch made an excellent point about modifying her environment to reflect her beliefs. rather than take drastic measures to fit a more mainstream image/lifestyle, she's living true to her own convictions and asking that of those around her as well. i find that when we turn off the tv, close the mags, shut down the computer, what we're left with is only ourselves. if we cant love and accept ourselves in those moments of solitude, it is near impossible to counteract the messages that intentionally eat away at our self esteem.

[strongirl]

Vendetta's comments really touched my heart. I personally want to support other small-breasted women (and all women, really) in feeling good about themselves but also in giving an ear and a shoulder when they do not feel good about themselves. And part of being supportive is not criticizing what they do to feel better about themselves, whether that is implants, Botox, or whatever. Implants are unnatural but so are piercings, tattoos, mascara, and even shampoo for that matter. Let she who is without sin cast the first stone (Luddite lurkers step forward).

I dislike the aspect of our culture that puts unhealthy emphasis on women's appearance, I dislike the idea that we all have to strive for a narrow esthetic ideal rather than embrace diversity, I worry that women risk their overall health by inserting foreign objects in their chests in order to have bigger breasts. But as a caring feminist I offer congratulations to women who are happy with their implants, and concern to those who struggle with health problems and poor results with theirs. For us to regard women who get implants with criticism, scorn, and moral superiority just perpetuates competition and isolation among women. Let's try not to do that here (not that I think we do but interpretations can vary and I wonder if that is what Vendetta is reacting to).

Feel free to call me on it if I do it - I try not to but again, interpretations can vary. I will try, as Vendetta says, to respect other people's choices.

At the same time, Vendetta - there isn't necessarily something "wrong" with being flat-chested or small-breasted. It is part of the range of "normal" body types and has no negative health implications whatsoever. For my positive contribution to small-titty self-esteem for the day, here is a link to pics of a model who was in Playboy, believe it or not, and is one of their top models for promotional events, etc. Check it out - she's smokin' hot!

http://www.playmates.altervista.org/2001/l...c_hil_menu.html

[karategrrl]

Everyone else out there in the world has something we don't--and sometimes wish we did--and each of us has something that at least someone out there wishes they had, at least some of the time. I think that to be happy and feel complete, the highest goal for each of us would be to love ourselves the way we are and surround ourselves with people who support us the way we are. The opposite of that is to go to big lengths to do the opposite--that is, as I see it, to change ourselves to adhere to how others think we should be, or to our own sense of how we should be--if that image of how we "should be" is something that has been shaped by society or others' comments.

I have said before and I'll say again that if there was a SAFE, cheaper alternative to breast implants, I'd be hard-pressed not to do it, and that is true. However, I am confident saying that because I would only want to be a larger A cup, or maybe B cup, and my motivation would mainly be to make clothing issues easier, not to try and fit someone else's mold.

It has been difficult to get to this point, but I can say with conviction at this point in my life that I love my breasts and my body overall. Sure, if I had magical powers, I'd want smaller feet and hands (so I wouldn't have such a hard time finding shoes and gloves), larger breasts, non-grey hair (so I wouldn't have to dye it), perfect vision (no need for glasses), but shit, overall, I have a lot to be thankful for. There are people in this world without feet, hands, vision, etc. who would give their left eyetooth to be me, small breasts and all. So I try and count my blessings and, yes, even give thanks for the fact that having small breasts is my biggest complaint in life sometimes.

And yes, I do dye my hair, and I have had a mole on my face removed. To me, these are minor things. However, I consider implants inserted into the torso of the body--where your lungs, heart, and pectoral muscles are designed to be--not foreign objects--a major invasion of the body, and totally not worth it. Yes, to each their own, but I figure one must really hate themselves to be willing to take all those risks rather than just be themselves. That I find very sad.

I was once shopping for dresses in a store. I started talking to the woman next to me, also small-breasted. I saw a dress, held it up and said, "This would look good on you," to which she replied--with conviction--"Oh, I have no chest. That would look DISGUSTING on me!" I was rather shocked and saddened anyone could dislike themselves so much. My feeling--"yeah, well, I'd just wear my padded bra, or wear none and show off my nips."

Hope all this makes an ounce of sense! I am rambling!