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> What the F@%&?! And more feminist outrage...
anna k
post Oct 3 2006, 04:17 PM
Post #1261


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 1,687
From: NYC


I hate this. I hate violence, I hate people shooting each other and all this senseless bullshit. I just finished reading an Esquire article about a soldier who is MIA and possibly dead, and his family has built this shrine to him in their hometown and he fits the model of a "good ole American boy." I hate the Iraq war, I hate global warming, I hate racism, I hate the Bush administration, and I hate all this bullshit that tears the world apart.

My mom once led a bike group through Pennslyvania in the 1970s, and they stayed overnight in Amish country. She said some were nice, though others preferred not to speak to the travelers, keeping their distance.
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chachaheels
post Oct 3 2006, 03:35 PM
Post #1262


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From: allover, wherever, unsettled


This afternoon I heard that the gunman left a number of notes for his wife in which he wrote that he had molested children in his family 20 years ago and he felt he was going to do so again. He had apparently stocked up on items for this raid--wire twine to tie the children up with, etc. etc. His wife found the notes and called his cell phone. Apparently he just left home that morning as he had always done, so nothing seemed out of the ordinary until the notes were found, and by then he was already in the school and he told his wife he would not be coming home ever.

Apparently he was interrupted in his attempts to carry out his plan--no one knows how this happened but there is speculation that he simply couldn't carry it out (the phone call, remorse, whatever). So he decided to shoot his victims instead because he was "angry with himself" and "angry with god". Apparently he and his wife lost a baby daughter just after she was born a number of years ago and this was to be his "revenge on god."

Apparently, 10 Amish families will be directly affected by this, as only 10 families attended that school (the schools were deliberately small scale, community oriented: children of various ages study together so they often go to school with their siblings. That would have meant, horribly, that brothers were forced to leave their little sisters behind in that classroom with their killer). Imagine the devastation of all the survivors in that community.

Obviously a very demented, extremely sick man; and a horrible story.


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May suitable doses of guaranteed sensual pleasure and slow, long-lasting enjoyment preserve us from the contagion of the multitude who mistake frenzy for efficiency.
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bunnyb
post Oct 3 2006, 01:51 PM
Post #1263


The artist now known as I don't give a shit.
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True wombat, things can be misconstrued. I am not saying that because the BBC didn't say it, it isn't worth saying but what you said came across as an actual fact rather than an observation of the facts. It's obvious that you're not an authority on the story because you weren't there/aren't investigating/speaking to those who were/are.

We can all express opinions here, that is what this community is for but when something is presented as being categoricaly the truth then I am going to question the source. I like being aware of all of the information at hand before I objectively make a decision. All I know is that the events as they are unfolding are far reaching a tragic.

Thanks for your level-headed last post.


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"Hey, did anyone ever think Sylvia Plath wasn't crazy, maybe she was just cold? " (Lorelai Gilmore)
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sugarhiccup81
post Oct 3 2006, 01:09 PM
Post #1264


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Posts: 26
From: NYC


That really is a horrible story and the more it unfolds the worse it seems to get. I agree with Maddy that it is strange that neither of his victims remember that he abused them.. could be repressed memory or it could be (like maddy said) that the man cant distinguish fantasy from reality. At any rate i really feel for all the families involved and for all the girls who did survive and are now going to be traumatized for the rest of their lives.

Sorry i dont have more to add the conversation. sad.gif


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"But be careful! Minotaurs lie in wait in the labyrinths of memory."- Isabel Allende
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wombat
post Oct 3 2006, 01:00 PM
Post #1265


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From: Rattland


Because, to me it is very obvious, and CAN safely be assumed, that if a gunman tells adults and boys to leave and keeps only the girls and then kills them, that there is a sexual and necrophiliac element to his raid of the school, and you seemed to be telling me that we could never know this unless the BBC said it.

In other words, my observation of the facts is not enough because I am not an authority.

That INSTANT response serves to discredit and dismiss me, and that happens in many, many cases when people try to speak up.

I do appreciate and recognize your intelligence and well-balanced, pleasant presence here on the board and I don't mean to slight you personally, bunny_b, I enjoy your posts and your presence very much.

It's just that response to a post of feminist outrage - "Let's wait until the authority weighs in on it." that affected me.

We're probably miscommunicating a bit -- I'm misinterpreting what you said -- you only meant that you wanted to know all the details to see what the full scope of it was.

In these disturbing situations, to react strongly and miscommunicate is easy to do.


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Lion-hearted
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maddy29
post Oct 3 2006, 11:58 AM
Post #1266


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wow, yeah very sick. it's weird to me that none of his supposed victims even remember him abusing them- i wonder if we'll get more details about that later, like will the victims now remember? or was he just very confused about what was real and what was his fantasy? very scary.

what's up with the last week or so and the school violence? dang. makes me feel so sad sad.gif
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godslioness
post Oct 3 2006, 11:39 AM
Post #1267


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This is a very, very icky detail, but the Amish school gunman had two tubes of lube with him, according to the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5404144.stm


A very very sick man.
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maddy29
post Oct 3 2006, 10:32 AM
Post #1268


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From: Boston, MA


hey all, i'm outraged about representative foley who sent sexual emails to his young teen interns-check out the "not without a fight" activism thread to send a letter and request that the House leader be ousted, since he knew about this and did nothing.....
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bunnyb
post Oct 3 2006, 10:24 AM
Post #1269


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Shooter admits molesting girl relatives 20 years ago that's what happened when he was 12 years old, to say that he dreamt of doing it again suggests that he planned to kill himself to prevent him from doing it; maybe he killed the girls in some warped way of protecting them from people like himself? or to blot out the innocence of them as he did his relatives? who knows what goes on in a murderer's mind. He didn't have time to molest those girls, maybe he was planning to.


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"Hey, did anyone ever think Sylvia Plath wasn't crazy, maybe she was just cold? " (Lorelai Gilmore)
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pixiedust
post Oct 3 2006, 10:12 AM
Post #1270


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Schools ought to be safer...but honestly, without making them into virtual prisons, I don't know how we are ever goign to keep intruders out. Mr. Pixie is a school teacher at an innercity high school. They have regular Intruder on campus drills....so does my 4 y/o's pre K class. But after the shooting last week a local news team decided to see how easy it was to get on campus. One school they walked right through the front door. At another school they found an emergency exit door had been propped open by students who were cutting class. Unfortunately fire codes prevent schools from totally locking the doors to keep the outside world out. It is really scarey. This stuff didn't seem to happen when I was in school.


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~May the Fleas of one thousand camels infest the crotch of any person who messes up your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch!~
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bunnyb
post Oct 3 2006, 09:40 AM
Post #1271


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pompous dismissal? I was asking where you had heard he had molested the girls, wombat.

You are not right, how on God's green earth do YOU know that he molested those girls?

Take that as a dismissive, backhand swipe.


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"Hey, did anyone ever think Sylvia Plath wasn't crazy, maybe she was just cold? " (Lorelai Gilmore)
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wombat
post Oct 3 2006, 09:15 AM
Post #1272


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From: Rattland


True enough about the Amish community not locking their doors -- I suppose -- but two school incidents in which adult males target girls -- whether or not the man in the Amish community specifically molested them, and whether we can prove this, I don't think we need to wait for proof to see that it has a sexual component.

I am also not suggesting that we ban popular TV shows like CSI. I'm not eager to be lumped in with fundamentalists who try to burn heavy metal albums.

These were two separate but somewhat related rants in the "feminist rant" thread.

No, academic dissections do not always excuse abuses by the ruling class of the day, faerietails, true enough.

I listed the ones that *have* attempted to do so recently -- I read an article casting doubt on the origins of the black plague a few years ago, and the application of that doubt to the current state of shipping, globalization, trade with China, AIDS and who profits and at what cost, was transparent to me. "We're overdue for an epidemic! And they come from such mysterious sources! And there's nothing we can do about it! Why, even the plague... we no longer think ... etc." I read that, I didn't just imagine that it exists.

That was prompted by bunny_b's pompous dismissal of my first post. And now, more pompous dismissal.

I'm not discouraged by dismissive backhand swipes.

I'm right. I promptly admit it.


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faerietails
post Oct 3 2006, 08:48 AM
Post #1273


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I haven't read anything about him sexually molesting the girls either. I've read that he lined them up against the blackboard and tied their feet, but no sexual molestation reports have surfaced.

And I think it's really unfair to say that academic dissections always let the privileged classes off the hook or to imply that the school had responsibility in this attack. I think this is kind of an exception to the rule because this wasn't an urban/suburban school. It was in a community where people don't even lock their doors because the crime rate is practically nonexistent. It's a community where life goes at a completely different pace and one would never have conceived such a thing happening. The victims were 6-13 years old, yet they were all inside the same one-room schoolhouse. You can hardly view a rural Amish schoolhouse as being The Man.
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bunnyb
post Oct 3 2006, 07:54 AM
Post #1274


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um, perhaps we could have had a discussion if we had stayed on topic.


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"Hey, did anyone ever think Sylvia Plath wasn't crazy, maybe she was just cold? " (Lorelai Gilmore)
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wombat
post Oct 3 2006, 07:50 AM
Post #1275


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From: Rattland


Yes, more academic dissection is needed.
In these dissections, we will always find that no privileged person or class can ever be blamed for anything that goes wrong.

Therefore, men have the privlege to treat the bodies of their inferiors however they like, schools are not responsible for the safety of the children, and the upper-class males (with one or two token women) that profit from feeding us mass-market garbage on television can blame us for viewing it.

The applications are endless! Yes, bunny_b, I'm being simply *foolish*!!

Global warming? But scientists disagree. The big whole in the ozone over Australia? Well, there aren't any very* important* people living there.

The trade in luxuries from China did *NOT* bring about the black plague! It *wasn't* fleas from black rats which swarmed off the ships! Mass diseases not endemic to the population simply HAPPEN from time to time. We know this because we are biologists with many years of expensive schooling! There is absolutely no need to hobble the current day ruling class profits by inspecting containerized cargo for hostile biological matter! Even though one was not even allowed to bring vegetables or plants accross national borders when traveling, a mere two decades ago!

Making carved up and dead bodies erotic and glamorous has absolutely no effect on people! Not even upon disturbed people! Where is the STUDY that would conclusively prove over decades that necrphilia is in any way a social problem?



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bunnyb
post Oct 3 2006, 07:34 AM
Post #1276


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we like witty and intelligent tv with "extremely attractive" men.

has it been released yet that he molested the girls? not in any news resports I've read (BBC). Yes, I imagine he subjected them to a terrifying ordeal by tying them up and then killing some of them execution style but let's not jump to conclusions. yes, it's outrageous that he singled out the girls but that doesn't mean it was an act of sexual depravity.


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"Hey, did anyone ever think Sylvia Plath wasn't crazy, maybe she was just cold? " (Lorelai Gilmore)
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wombat
post Oct 3 2006, 07:25 AM
Post #1277


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From: Rattland


Okay, this just in -- for the second time in as many WEEKS, a full-grown adult man has gone and shot up a school, and he has singled out the girls, and he has molested them first. And this time, in Amish country.

And then they kill themselves -- isn't that charming.

Why were they not kept out of the school? And why do they think they are entitled to punish females for everything they don't like in life? This is like lynching. It makes me sick.

And while I'm at it, I may as well confess that all these terribly popular, "aren't the characters *sex-ay" television shows full of corpses and surgeries and other gore disgust me too.

House, CSI and what the fuck ever.

Look at this cute guy/girl and flash to the rotting bloody body!

What the hell is wrong with people?


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chachaheels
post Oct 3 2006, 03:06 AM
Post #1278


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 1,749
From: allover, wherever, unsettled


Pepper, I'm a big fool for men who are tall, slim, and often blue eyed, and let's just say, of a certain age. It's so idiotic, I know. But it just is.

Point is, though, I'm not the only one: and I think part of the manipulation of that character's reality is based on physical attractiveness and a history of comedic acting juxtaposed on this utterly repulsive character. Toss in "god-like status and privilege" as a given and you're very likely going to feel like House is your hero.

It's amazing the kind of criminality he's portrayed committing--and how people react to the character regardless. I'm talking about how viewers respond to his character--as well as the other characters in the show. It's an impressive mind-fuck.

And, yes, bad inside and out, as a result.

I'm not surprised by peoples' prudishness anymore--whether it's in Texas or right in my own backyard, there's never been any shortage of it. A school that hires an art teacher who creates a great art program--then fires her for doing her job because an ignoramus complained that his child saw a nude in a gallery...this is old news everywhere. You'd think people would like their children to see at least one nude image, somewhere in the bombardment of nude images they're shown every minute of their lives, with which doesn't exist simply to sell cars, or cigarettes, or playstation games. You know, just for a change.


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May suitable doses of guaranteed sensual pleasure and slow, long-lasting enjoyment preserve us from the contagion of the multitude who mistake frenzy for efficiency.
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sugarhiccup81
post Oct 2 2006, 10:39 PM
Post #1279


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From: NYC


Xexyz's post

Wow. Well its good to know the people of Texas are concerned with the important issues of the day... nudes in an art museum::chokes on sarcasm::. I wonder how the parent(s) would have felt if it was an extremely violent image instead, such as a graphic depiction of war? Would that be acceptable so long as the warriors werent nude?

What a sad, sad world we live in.


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"But be careful! Minotaurs lie in wait in the labyrinths of memory."- Isabel Allende
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pepper
post Oct 2 2006, 08:54 PM
Post #1280







oh. my. gawd.
a Nude sculpture? in the museum?! No WAY!!
sheesh.

chacha "extremely attractive"? wha...??? that dude is the crustiest ole bastid going on prime time. as ugly on the outside as he is on the inside, IMHO. uck.

i am scared, scared, scared about the daycare situation and everything else that affects women and kids in this country. what the hell, how does taking all that funding away from social programs really make a dent in the national debt? 'specially if they're just gonna give it back to themselves as a salary increase.
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