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> Life After Capitalism
bob4both
post Dec 8 2009, 11:45 AM
Post #21


Hardcore BUSTie
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From: the land of Jack Daniels


Socialism can take on one of two styles; the state ownership of industry/commerce, OR the collective (group of citizens) ownership of same. While the latter is defined as Socialism by some sources (Wikopedia, for one), I don't see it as socialism as such. I mean it's still owned by the people, even if one could argue that there is a difference between a collective of workers owning a company or a board owning a company. But I don't really have a problem with companies owned by the workers. It's worked wonderfully in numerous situations.

But what the Obama administration is advocating, instituting actually, is Social Democracy which is primarily the state's ownership of industry. Look at GM, taking over the company & firing the CEO. Now they want their hands on healthcare. No one can convince me with the silly arguments provided by its proponents that this is only adding an option for the non/underinsured. This is a power grab, pure & simple like they've done with portions of the auto industry, and the private sector cannont compete with unlimited resources. "Were losing our shirts on healthcare, Mr. Obama." "Well then, print another trillion & settle the books." Its whats gonna happen, if you don't see it, it's because you head is buried in the sand...or up Obama's butt.

And labor unions are mostly outdated. With federal regulations in place, most workers are protected beyond their worth to the company. I see it everyday.

And I definately agree with Allison-shines. Most (70%) of the country is employed by small business owners. While they may have salaries that many of us consider extravagant, they WORKED to get their businesses to succeed. Yet we want to demonize them the same as the AT&T Exec that comes in with a $10 million salary & a lifetime "golden parachute". Small business owners have no such guarantees. They thrive or fail based on their sweat & ingenuity. They are the ones supporting the libraries & other community endowments because they live in & hire from those communities. But along comes the Big Brother & the multitude of greedy little weasels & want to suck them dry - or demonize them when they leave because of the government's persecution.

People are so enamured by Obama that they're oblivious to common sense & individual thought. Example: John Mackey of Whole Foods supermarkets runs a successfull organic supermarket chain; the largest in the country. He even provides a healthcare program for his employees which far exceeds most private insurers. But when he suggested in a news brief that he had a better solution than the Govt option, he was immediately ostracized & boycotted by those who's only mindset was Obama's healthcare solution. They didn't even want to hear what he had to offer. All they knew was that it wasn't from the Govt so it wouldn't suit them because it wasn't the govt taking care of them. I'm afraid we have sacrificed freedom & individual success for social comfort.


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"Earth: The insane asylum for the universe..."
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koffeewitch
post Dec 4 2009, 09:20 AM
Post #22


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From: the Hundred Acre Woods


It's not "capitalism" that funds the libraries; it's people. There is nothing capitalist about our income tax system, in fact the best capitalists find ways NOT to pay taxes. I would certainly agree that rich people have done great things. Socialism does NOT prevent people from attaining wealth, by the way. You can even have a free rather than a planned market under a socialist economic system. You can have socialism and a democratic government. (It's the only kind of socialism we're talking about. We're not advocating a totalitarian system). You can have socialist businesses. Only the means of production would be owned by workers collectively. In the truer days of capitalism, most children entered the factory by age 4. Factory workers died by the age of 35. Most people could not read, and so they could not teach their children or alter their fate. Labor unions (many of them from the American Communist Party) changed the lives of workers and created our "middle class". Unfettered capitalism always leads to imperialism.


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"The U.S. is the only nation on Earth to pass from barbarism into decadence without once passing through an era of civilization."
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Allison-Shine
post Dec 4 2009, 08:07 AM
Post #23


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Posts: 130
From:


QUOTE(koffeewitch @ Nov 22 2009, 05:45 PM) *
Yep, and everytime you visit your public library or drive by a public school you can thank our early U.S. socialists. Capitalism, unrestricted, leads to imperialism and serfdom. The ruling powers have a vested interest in making us believe that this is the only way. DOn't buy it (literally AND figuratively).


Capitalism, through the free enterprise system and the private sector, funds public institutions such as libraries and schools through taxes, not the money fairy. When schools and libraries need more funding, what do they typically do? Go to the voting public and put levies on the ballot.

All those Carnegie Libraries you see around the world? They were started by one of the biggest capitalists in U.S. history, Andrew Carnegie. Huge univeristy endowments ? A lot of that comes from private sector businesses and individuals.

Capitalism is not entirely made up of big, corrupt corporate fat cats. They are also made up of many small businesses (your local coffee shop, salon, grocer, the list is endless). Also small, growing companies like my employer, the enterprises that local communites fight to attract. They create jobs, provide value to thier customers and generate tax dollars for all the public sector things we need and enjoy.
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sevenseconds
post Nov 22 2009, 06:55 PM
Post #24


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Posts: 178
From: The Present (trying so hard to stay there)


I like you ladies saying these things ... wub.gif


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Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again. - MJH
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koffeewitch
post Nov 22 2009, 05:45 PM
Post #25


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Posts: 474
From: the Hundred Acre Woods


Yep, and everytime you visit your public library or drive by a public school you can thank our early U.S. socialists. Capitalism, unrestricted, leads to imperialism and serfdom. The ruling powers have a vested interest in making us believe that this is the only way. DOn't buy it (literally AND figuratively).


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"The U.S. is the only nation on Earth to pass from barbarism into decadence without once passing through an era of civilization."
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girltrouble
post Nov 22 2009, 03:39 PM
Post #26


new highs in personal lows daily!
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Posts: 4,307
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capitalism is NOT here to stay. it's only here until we've had enough. different monetary/economic/governing systems were here before it, and there will be new ones after it. we just suffer from a lack of imagination right now. some country will concoct a system that, i hope will be more about helping us all reach our potential instead of encouraging greed.


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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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vibrator
post Nov 22 2009, 02:05 PM
Post #27


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Capitalism is here to stay, it's what makes the world go around and greed is always sheik. Even china had to buckle and cave in. Although they do maintain strong political control still.


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koffeewitch
post Nov 15 2009, 11:56 AM
Post #28


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Posts: 474
From: the Hundred Acre Woods


Sounds cool....you know everytime I hear discussions about the "greatest U.S. presidents", Reagan's name ALWAYS comes up somehow. The man went into politics with no experience and as ignorant and clueless as anyone could possibly be. Our country suffered horrifically during his time at the helm, yet i still hear his economic policies referred to as innovative. Considering I get most of my televised news from PBS, this is more than a little disturbing. What's innovative about letting poor retirees starve to death?

Anyway, thanks for the tip; will have to check the book out.


--------------------
"The U.S. is the only nation on Earth to pass from barbarism into decadence without once passing through an era of civilization."
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nohope
post Nov 13 2009, 03:39 PM
Post #29


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Posts: 460


Bartlett Discusses His Book `The New American Economy':
Nov. 11 (Bloomberg)

Bruce Bartlett, who served as a Treasury Department economist under President George H.W. Bush, talks with Bloomberg's Tom Keene about his new book ``The New American Economy: The Failure of Reaganomics and a New Way Forward.''

http://media.bloomberg.com/bb/avfile/Econo...IerEWYN8UmY.mp3
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Melanielouise
post Dec 1 2008, 11:32 AM
Post #30


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Posts: 21


QUOTE(tommynomad @ Nov 28 2008, 06:43 PM) *
Thanks for the info, kittenb.

It appears the shopoholics of the world killed someone through trampling at a Wal-Mart yesterday. Must have been some great discounts on Guitar Hero.


I heard about that... absolutely horrific, I mean someone actually died! I can't even imagine I have been through some pretty crazy mosh pits etc. but walmart??
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tommynomad
post Nov 28 2008, 01:43 PM
Post #31


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Thanks for the info, kittenb.

It appears the shopoholics of the world killed someone through trampling at a Wal-Mart yesterday. Must have been some great discounts on Guitar Hero.


--------------------
"If I help women to have babies when they can give them love and affection, [those babies] will not grow up to be rapists or murderers.
They will not build concentration camps."
--Dr. Henry Morgentaler
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kittenb
post Nov 28 2008, 09:45 AM
Post #32


There is nothing ironic about Show Choir!
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The picture function was deactived due to trolls.


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In times of destruction, create something.
MHK
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tommynomad
post Nov 26 2008, 06:02 PM
Post #33


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From: Auckland, ANZ!


November 28/29th (depending on where you are) is Buy Nothing Day.

[img]http://www.adbusters.org/files/images/douche_it.preview.jpg[/img]

Adbusters

edited to add: why don't my image links work?


--------------------
"If I help women to have babies when they can give them love and affection, [those babies] will not grow up to be rapists or murderers.
They will not build concentration camps."
--Dr. Henry Morgentaler
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nohope
post Nov 14 2008, 10:34 AM
Post #34


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Great netcast on the need of poorer countries in this depression

http://www.npr.org/rss/podcast/podcast_det...siteId=94411890

Also great episode on This American Life about the last depresion

http://podcast.thisamericanlife.org/podcast/368.mp3
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neurotic.nelly
post Oct 7 2008, 11:43 PM
Post #35


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Posts: 460
From: the galatic center


Naomi Wolf's warning of pending martial law.


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Earth: A Satanically ran planet where 98% of it's inhabitants are unquestioning, conformist idiots who are totally controlled and manipulated by the Satanic governments of the world and have been made complacent by said governments, through rigorous brainwashing.
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nohope
post Oct 7 2008, 01:05 PM
Post #36


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QUOTE(spatzlemaus @ Oct 7 2008, 04:42 PM) *
[color="#008080"][/color] I really don't know much at all about anarchy apart from the bare minimum which is probably tainted by social stereotype, but it sort of sounds to me that what you're describing (from what I thought I understood anarchy to be) is much too structured and well, organised to be anarchical. I was under the impression that anarchy was more chaotic-and what you describe is what I would've termed socialism. Can you help me out here? I'm confused!


If you want to understand anarchism as a social movement. As a body of ideas, and not just as a caricature. I'd start here....

http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html
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spatzlemaus
post Oct 7 2008, 11:42 AM
Post #37


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From: Kiwi-land...for now


[color="#008080"][/color] I really don't know much at all about anarchy apart from the bare minimum which is probably tainted by social stereotype, but it sort of sounds to me that what you're describing (from what I thought I understood anarchy to be) is much too structured and well, organised to be anarchical. I was under the impression that anarchy was more chaotic-and what you describe is what I would've termed socialism. Can you help me out here? I'm confused!


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To be a useful person has always seemed to me something particularly horrible.
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neurotic.nelly
post Oct 4 2008, 12:18 PM
Post #38


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From: the galatic center


QUOTE(nohope @ Oct 1 2008, 11:19 AM) *
Want to chang the world? Lets start by looking at how we raise children

http://podcast.thisamericanlife.org/podcast/364.mp3

okay, nohope, i am only in the first few minutes of this, but i am riveted and saddened. i already know this... anyone with half a brain knows this... anyone half aware knows this... that (some, certainly not all, as there are some upper middle class communities that never spend time on their children for being too self absorbed) some children are getting a head start that is worlds ahead of poor children. But I am going to listen to the whole show, I have just recently discovered 'This American Life' and find it very fascinating and comprehensive. There is one called 'the mortgage crisis' that was very very informative.

But...

To add to what you said down below.

If the American people do not leave the country, buy gold, silver, booze, and seeds for bartering purposes because now that the bailout has passed, what we will soon have is hyper-stagflation, meaning the average american's income will stagnate, while the prices of goods and services inflates. So, store up on food! As the prices of food will soon increase! If you cannot leave the country, have several plans just in case.

nohope, why did you mention japan? history lesson please? wink.gif

eta: never mind about the japan question set above, i believe i've got my answer this morning after watching zeitgeit: addendum - the producer turned toward economics. they are doing to the american people what they've done to countless countries around the world. heh, i already knew the answer, anyway, not sure why i asked, i guess for a concrete example or validation for my presumptions. oh. we're f*cked, so, so, so enslaved, the whole lot of us. neo-feudalism is here to stay.


--------------------
Earth: A Satanically ran planet where 98% of it's inhabitants are unquestioning, conformist idiots who are totally controlled and manipulated by the Satanic governments of the world and have been made complacent by said governments, through rigorous brainwashing.
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nohope
post Oct 3 2008, 04:13 PM
Post #39


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ok so the first of of many trillion dollar bailouts has passed.

My prediction.

Welcome to Japan or Zimbabwe

i.e.

This is it.... Not Bush getting elected. Not McCain getting elected, this is it..... we are now fucked...

So it's time to move.... Cause every CEO has a plan and it's called Dubai. You can't afford Dubai, but there are plenty of nice, friendly places to live.

So get your passport ready.... and find a country to immigrate too.... learn there language. Choose one with universal health care.... the brain drain begins now.... we live in a free market and the best and brightest will move to the freest and fairest.

Freak out, but don't worry, you have 6 to 24 months.... depending on your personal circumstance's....

regardless of who wins the election...

The worst case will be that you will not find a nation willing to let you in.

In that case good luck...

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nohope
post Oct 1 2008, 01:19 PM
Post #40


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Want to chang the world? Lets start by looking at how we raise children

http://podcast.thisamericanlife.org/podcast/364.mp3
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