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> small breast support group - (I need it even if they don't)
dj-bizmonkey
post Mar 7 2011, 09:09 AM
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From: the depths of my soul


welcome DeeRayy! i hope you enjoy being part of this community. i stumbled upon bust when i was your age. makes me sound ancient but probably only about a decade older than you smile.gif

i have definitely had to deal with boyfriends like yours in my past and they are soooo not worth your tears. number one, yes, they are likely interested in the whole package, not just parts of it. number two, even if they find some part of you lacking, telling you about in direct or indirect ways is just immature and insensitive. my current bf's dick curves noticeably to the right. i think it looks funny, but i would never TELL him that. i just adjust myself in the other direction when we're having sex. that being said.....

QUOTE(DeeRayy @ Mar 7 2011, 01:11 AM) *
It finally reached a boiling point when one day I finally just asked him if he could change anything about me what would it be, and sure enough he said, "well, you know how I said I was a boob man? Well there you go." All I could do was cry that night, and I ended up feeling worse and worse about my body. I felt ashamed and inadequate. And he just started to get impatient with me, and rather than comforting me he just kept telling me to let it go and that he was with me because of other things. I guess he just didn't understand how sensitive the issue was for me.


i don't want to sound harsh, but you did flat out ask him. i think a good lesson here would be to understand why you did. what answer were you expecting from him? were you hoping he would say something totally different or did you think this would just confirm your fears? i don't necessarily think he's an asshole for answering something you asked him pointblank. i do think he's an asshole for telling you he's a boob man while you were getting intimate though. we're all vulnerable in bed and that is the worst time to talk frankly about any sexual matter. i think he probably DID have a clue as to how sensitive you were about it (otherwise why would you ask or keep bringing it up) but you can only build a person up so much before your patience runs thin. and THAT being said....

QUOTE(DeeRayy @ Mar 7 2011, 01:11 AM) *
So, out relationship ended a few weeks after that. To make things worse, it turns out he had left me to pursue another girl who was much bustier than I, and we never talked again. But honestly, I don't think he was just leaving me simply to be with some girl with a bigger rack. I mean I'm sure her boobs didn't hurt, but I feel like my insecurity made it too hard to be with me, and that it was my own fault that he left me for her.


it sounds like you've got some really good insight here. i don't know that you need to play the blame game and say, oh it is all my fault that he left me, but i DO think your insecurity played a role. in the end, like karategrrl said, you don't want to be with someone who is just 'settling' for 'enough.' no one, no one's body, no one's personality is perfect. the difference between the people we end up with and the people we don't is that the things we love about our partner overshadow the things we might change if we could wave a magic wand. and we don't spend much time thinking about the things we could change. i think as we age as well, the things we might change become more about behavior and much less about the physical.

the take home point is this. if you don't want men to obsess over the fact that you have small breasts, then you have to stop obsessing about it. a guy might not even notice, i.e. he knows your breasts are small but doesn't think that deeply about it. but if you harp on it long enough he may think, yeah, actually your breasts are too small. what has finally worked for me in the end is to think that my breasts just are. they exist. i hate the term flat because we aren't flat. if you place a level across our nipples, i'm sure it would not read plumb! your breasts are just one part of you. it is important to take the value judgment out of something that is just descriptive. i have a big ass, thick thighs, a tiny waist and even tinier breasts. not good, not bad, my body just IS and i love it for that. it gets me from point A to point B and gives me significant pleasure. i've got small breasts and my attitude these days is, and??????

hang tough DeeRayy and thanks for sharing!

i think it is especially challenging just because of our culture. having a breast fetish isn't 'natural' in the sense that it just comes from instinct. sorry, that is just a load of horseshit. much of Katherine Dettwyler's work has shown that at all. in her book on the biocultural perspective of breastfeeding, she refers to a cross-cultural study done in the early 1960's. in it roughly 160 traditional cultures were surveyed, and out of these only 13, THIRTEEN, viewed breasts in a sexual way, i.e. breasts were touched, fondled, used during sexual contact. that should give you pause. this isn't something that is hardwired into us people, and i think a lot of men (and women) are uncomfortable with that fact. here is her website if you ever want to read some of her commentaries. one of my favorite anthropologists: http://www.kathydettwyler.org/


--------------------
"To lose everything at the edge of such a glorious eternity is far sweeter than to win by plodding through a cautious, painless, and featureless life."
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karategrrl
post Mar 7 2011, 08:18 AM
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Hey hey DeeRay!

Well, I could write a book (as some of you know) but for now I'll share a few random thoughts. I'm sure others will add.

1. Welcome! I'm so glad you've posted here! If you are feeling like this, this is certainly the place to be.

2. I'm sure you loved him, but your ex sounds like an insensitive ass. And not to man-bash, but in my "old" age I've come to find that most men are entirely insensitive about women's body issue sensitivities, especially the younger they are. His asking over the phone about your cup size was totally fucking stupid. I mean, did you ask him to whip out a ruler and give you his measurements? (Sorry, venting!) wink.gif Sounds like you totally accepted him while you did not get this in return.

3. I'm surprised gay men teased you--they're usually very appreciative of women. And yes, I realize that is a blanket statement! wink.gif And it always astounds me when folks from a "group" that often gets bashed will bash others; I mean, they must know it it sucks and hurts.

4. You gave me flashbacks. My first serious BF, in high school, was a lot like your guy. Long story short, According to him my ass was too fat and tits too small. Looking back, I have the perspective to realize that I was not all that bad; I was pretty but just VERY insecure and had never built up any sort of confidence. HE was no great shakes physically so was really in no place to talk. But I couldn't see any of that then.

5. Despite all that, I doubt his choice to date you or the other girl was based entirely on breasts. Like we've discussed here, women are lovely "packages" (pardon that word) made up of SOOOOO much more than breasts.

6. At first, it sounded like your BF was appreciating you and your breasts, but your later comments make it sound like he was "settling." This may be hard to hear, but I have to say it; you may not consider yourself lucky to have had this experience, but at least you found out relatively early what he was really made of. Some women are MARRIED to men like this.

7. And this may be even harder to hear, but honey, I'm sure you are gorgeous and beautiful and talented and sensitive and have a bazillion other fantastic qualities--both physical and otherwise--that if some asshat can't recognize them and treat you like the goddess you are, he just plain doesn't deserve you.

Again, welcome. This is a safe and supportive community. Glad you found us. <<<hugs>>>

Post more!!
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DeeRayy
post Mar 7 2011, 02:11 AM
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Hello smile.gif

I'm a new member of this sooo I guess I'll simply state why I'm here.

I have always struggled with insecurity about my body as a whole, but my greatest struggle has been with the size of my breasts (I'm an A-cup). I was mildly teased in high school about my size (entirely by girls and gay men), and had never even had a boyfriend until my senior year of high school. Ironically, it was my first boyfriend that did the most damage to my body image. The relationship was almost a year ago, but the comments he made about my body still affect me.

It started with a simple comment he made while we were making out. I'll try not to be too detailed, but he was kissing my neck and about to head lower when he looked up at me and said "I have such a boob fetish". I was just really confused by the comment and the only thing I could think of to say was "Well, then why are you here with me??" He just laughed and said because it's not ALL about a girl's boobs. I said that the comment bothered me because I've always been self-conscious about not having boobs and he just said, "well, you have enough" and continued to kiss me.

This made me feel a little better, and he would never hesitate to tell me when he though I looked gorgeous or to comfort me about my other insecurities. For example, I'm not extremely overweight or anything, but I do have a pudgy tummy and he knew it bothered me, but he would always make an effort to caress and kiss my stomach. However, when it came to my boobs his affection was inconsistent.

He even asked me what my cup size was on the phone once. I didn't want to tell him but he kept insisting. So, I finally said that I was an A-cup and all he could say was "oh....", and changed the subject. And all he could ever say about my breasts was that they were "sufficient" or "enough". It felt like a backhanded compliment, like I was the bare minimum. And he never once made an effort to tell me that he liked them or to pay extra attention to them in bed, even though he knew they were my biggest insecurity.

It finally reached a boiling point when one day I finally just asked him if he could change anything about me what would it be, and sure enough he said, "well, you know how I said I was a boob man? Well there you go." All I could do was cry that night, and I ended up feeling worse and worse about my body. I felt ashamed and inadequate. And he just started to get impatient with me, and rather than comforting me he just kept telling me to let it go and that he was with me because of other things. I guess he just didn't understand how sensitive the issue was for me.

So, out relationship ended a few weeks after that. To make things worse, it turns out he had left me to pursue another girl who was much bustier than I, and we never talked again. But honestly, I don't think he was just leaving me simply to be with some girl with a bigger rack. I mean I'm sure her boobs didn't hurt, but I feel like my insecurity made it too hard to be with me, and that it was my own fault that he left me for her.

So, I'm still left with some emotional scars and I'm just tired of hating the way I look, and feeling as though I'll never be enough for a guy. I'm in my first year of college and I haven't dated anyone since. I'm a commuter student so I don't have as strong of a social life as a dormer, but I'm moving into a campus owned apartment next year that's much more affordable so hopefully that'll help. but anyway, I guess I'm just looking for some words of advice and some opinions on the situation that I went through. Any insight would help. Thank you smile.gif
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karategrrl
post Mar 3 2011, 07:57 AM
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I have to say, it seems like what a lot of us are recognizing is that it's great to accept and love oneself however you look, but another thing to go a big step further and say that your way it the only way to be, and everyone else is wrong to be the way they are.
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karategrrl
post Mar 3 2011, 07:54 AM
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QUOTE(strongirl @ Mar 2 2011, 02:37 PM) *
She had the last laugh, though - she quit when she got a job as a runway model. smile.gif

OH! That is just TOO fucking GREAT!
I, too, have been on the receiving end of that shit, though I must say, it wasn't as blatant.

"to help us stop giving offense to any whose eyes fall upon us."
Wow, that was well-said!

And welcome, Eris Sweetleaf!! Haven't seen you here before, or maybe I missed something--which is totally plausible! Great insights!!
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strongirl
post Mar 2 2011, 09:37 AM
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I totally agree, Eris Sweetleaf. And you raise a very good point about the underlying motivations when people put other people down over body shape/size - it's just competitive "one-upping", trying to elevate their status by putting other people down.

Your point about two types of women can really be expanded to people in general and comes down to whether one wishes to view others with compassion and support versus competition and vain self-promotion. There are those who wish to lift up and those who wish to tear down.

"It makes me sad that a lot of women don't seem to grasp the concept that empowerment doesn't mean attacking people who have done nothing to you."

I couldn't agree more.

And I do think there are racial issues that come into play with body type. I once worked in an office with a really gorgeous tall, thin, smalll-breasted young woman who was the only African-American woman in the office, with (other than me) mostly overweight, older white women. She took some serious shit in the form of "back-handed compliments" - things like "Eat a cheeseburger!" "Oh, I didn't see you, you were turned sideways"...just out of the blue. She handled it gracefully but it really used to piss me off. She had the last laugh, though - she quit when she got a job as a runway model. smile.gif

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Eris_Sweetleaf
post Mar 1 2011, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE(strongirl @ Feb 22 2011, 09:38 AM) *
Wow. Hugely great insight there. Thanks, Kera, for sharing and Secretsights, for insightful commentary.

I think I've failed to see this issue clearly because I've squelched myself and said to myself "oh, it's just sour grapes, you're just pissed because you're skinny and now you need to shut up and give the big girls their time in the limelight". So I never made the connection of "being skinny is seen as promoting bad body image, but having implants is not." That is huge for me. Thank you for the virtual "smack upside the head".

There is a "war on skinny" now and thanks for phrasing it so succinctly, Secretsights. But it's no different than the "war on fat" that reigned when I was growing up. In both cases, the underlying assumption is that we as women are not good enough, we're ugly, we're inadequate. And that we need outside intervention and "experts" - plastic surgeons, diet doctors, diet pills, undergarments that either pad us or shrink us - to help us stop giving offense to any whose eyes fall upon us.

And of course, there's money to be made off of that process.

I'm tired of women's bodies being the goldmine for greed and the battlefield for war and politics (Congo, Egypt spring to mind as recent examples, as well as the current debates here in the US over breastfeeding and also abortion). I wanna shout "Leave us the fuck alone!"


I've also had my mind on something like this as well because its apparently the 'in' or ;right' thing do which is one of the biggest reasons I dislike hypocritical 'movements' like this. Don't get me wrong; anorexia is a muffed up thing to try as is any eating disorder but from my years I have realized that there are two types of women;

1) The ones that realize that each person on this earth goes through their own kind of sh** and its not fair nor is it right to try to challenge them to see who 'has to go through the most suffrage'

and then there is camp...

2) The women who are just plain VAIN and want to make themselves feel better by putting others down for NO REASON other than they look like those that attack them.

Urgh, this crap drives me mad. As a black woman the 'real women have curves' mantra is all over the place because apparently there is a standard of what black woman should look like. There is a lot of mind-boggeling logic behind all this thinking but to put it in topic for this forum, let's just say that to some folks, a skinny, small-chested black woman is apparently not natural. You guys remember Monique? She made her career of her 'skinny bitches are evil' jokes so you can imagine how I hold her in my opinion as far as entertainers, hell, even ROLE MODELS go.

It makes me sad that a lot of women don't seem to grasp the concept that empowerment doesn't mean attacking people who have done nothing to you. You aren't helping anyone who ACTUALLY HAS ANOREXIA by belittling a slim woman who doesn't have it but whatever; they are apparently just in their saying because they 'suffered', never mind the fact that when a woman who isn't 'curvy' tries to talk about being bullied because of her own size, she is always told that she is making it up, it never happens or she should be 'thankful that she's skinny'

How does this help anyone? It DOESN'T and if anything, these 'wars on' aren't empowering women but rather keeping them from coming together because we are told that one side is the enemy to the other when its just not true. I mean, really. Its like some people feel threatened by those that haven't done anything to them. A skinny woman on the street, especially if there is nothing wrong with you, isn't going to cause all little girls to hunch over the toilets as much as a large woman isn't disgusting.

Its vanity. Nothing but vanity. dry.gif
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karategrrl
post Feb 28 2011, 10:54 AM
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QUOTE(discowombat @ Feb 27 2011, 03:23 AM) *
I agree. The photos they use just show ill fitting bras.

True. This annoys me--the "my cups runneth over" thing is exactly what they tell you NOT to do when correctly fitting a bra, for it creates bumps and ridges under your top. But I guess that's OK when you're not wearing a top. wink.gif
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anarch
post Feb 28 2011, 12:32 AM
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Awesome, discowombat. Thanks for the comments and link. I had seen that photoshop breakdown before but I'd forgotten.
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discowombat
post Feb 27 2011, 01:35 PM
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http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php...y-Victoria.html A detailed analysis shows that they pretty much photoshopped everything on this one.
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discowombat
post Feb 27 2011, 01:07 PM
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Actually, let me rephrase. While the photos don't actually show flesh bulging out the sides or over the top and all the other things that logically would come with having the girls pushed up that high, I realize that those unpleasantries have likely been photoshopped out. If the bras looked uncomfortable they wouldn't sell, and we all know that anything fashion related is generally photoshopped to hell and back.

The other thing that irks me is that they try to sell you something whether it fits or not. "Sorry we don't carry your band size, but try on this one is already loose on the tightest hook. It'll be fine"... anyways that's what the usual sales spiel sounds like to me. If their sales ethic works like that I hardly trust that the photos in the magazine aren't doctored to conceal the fact that their models are probably wearing bras a couple sizes too small to get that look. I'm sure there's some creative cleavage shading involved as well.
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discowombat
post Feb 26 2011, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE(anarch @ Feb 26 2011, 08:39 PM) *
All those VS models busting out of their cups bugs me too


I agree. The photos they use just show ill fitting bras.
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anarch
post Feb 26 2011, 08:39 PM
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oops, thanks for the correction, secretsights. Kera, thanks for linking to that blog!

"Operation Beautiful," what a wonderful idea.

All those VS models busting out of their cups bugs me too, actually. Only, I got some of my favourite tops and sweaters from there, so I keep checking back.

Oooooh Hottiecups! That nickname sure suits what we know of you, buttercups. Would you mind being called Hottiecups every once in a while? (KeraBear, I love your mind.)
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KeraBear
post Feb 26 2011, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE(secretsights88 @ Feb 26 2011, 11:56 AM) *
Oh hey anarch, I'm also glad that you're back! Although it was Kera who posted the link to the blog, but I agree it was a really good read...

Oh and GO BUTTERCUPS! smile.gif I'm sure that you'll do great with your training, it takes a bit of patience, but the results will be worth it...

I also found this, and I really felt identified with that post... I've thought or felt a lot of what is written there... it kind of helped me reinforce the perspective that we need to find beauty in our uniqueness and just fuck societal expectations...

Operation Beautiful - Dear Society


Great essay! *Kerabear clicks like button* Did you read about the mission of Operation Beautiful? That is so seriously cool.

And go Hottiecups! smile.gif
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secretsights88
post Feb 26 2011, 11:56 AM
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Oh hey anarch, I'm also glad that you're back! Although it was Kera who posted the link to the blog, but I agree it was a really good read...

Oh and GO BUTTERCUPS! smile.gif I'm sure that you'll do great with your training, it takes a bit of patience, but the results will be worth it...

I also found this, and I really felt identified with that post... I've thought or felt a lot of what is written there... it kind of helped me reinforce the perspective that we need to find beauty in our uniqueness and just fuck societal expectations...

Operation Beautiful - Dear Society
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buttercups
post Feb 26 2011, 07:09 AM
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Ooo thanks ladies for all the great protein advice! I have a nutrition supplement type store near me, so I'll check that out for some protein powder. If 40-46 g is about what I should be getting, I am nowhere near that! Hopefully I'll see some improvement if I up the protein.

Welcome back anarch! Missed you!!
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anarch
post Feb 25 2011, 03:26 PM
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I've been away, but oh what a treat to come back here and read all your contributions. This community rocks.

secretsights, thanks for posting that blog essay. More people need to read it. It, and y'all's wise comments here, too.
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karategrrl
post Feb 25 2011, 03:05 PM
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Great advice, strongirl! I forgot about the protein supplements!

I, too, take one, within an hour of a weight workout. My hubby started me on this and I was skeptical, but it does make a difference. Plus it's a great thing to drink first thing in the morning as a morning shake--when you have that protein intake on an empty stomach, it apparently absorbs quickly.

I like this one ON protein. All the flavors taste really good. One scoop of that plus a little milk in a shaker bottle does it. To get fancy, I add a banana and put it in the blender, which makes a nice healthful, filling snack anytime. Large continer runs about $40 US but lasts a long time. You can find a nutrition or bodybuilding store and explain what you need--the peeps who own them typically seem to be pretty knowledgeable, at least in my experince.

Plus I'm big on women getting enough protein to fight osteoporosis and all that nasty stuff. wink.gif
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strongirl
post Feb 24 2011, 01:16 PM
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Hey there, Buttercups and Karategrrl - no, I'm not a personal trainer, that was Spot-on. But I am a lifelong athlete and nutrition-nut. Buttercups, I suspect you are not getting enough protein. You need to try to figure out what you're getting daily, in grams - general guidelines are 40-46 grams for an adult female weighing 110 lbs.

I had been a runner and mostly vegetarian for many years when I started lifting weights several years ago. I wasn't putting on muscle either and felt some pain with lifting - as if my connective tissues and ligaments weren't building up. I figured out I was getting maybe 20 grams of protein on a good day, not enough to build back what I was tearing down. I increased my intake by drinking a protein smoothie within a half hour of working out, when the body really needs the protein to start rebuilding the muscle tissue. I made my own smoothies with 30 grams of soy protein powder and tons of antioxidants via blueberries, orange juice, green tea, etc. Huge difference! Soreness gone, muscles built up, the muscles amped up my metabolic rate so the fat melted off. Plus my skin and hair looked better. Added benefit to soy protein - it may have some estrogen boosting effects for the bustline.

My take. I'm not a pro, tho, and this doesn't qualify as medical advice by any means.
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karategrrl
post Feb 24 2011, 09:56 AM
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QUOTE(buttercups @ Feb 23 2011, 06:41 PM) *
I don't know about you guys but it doesn't make me want to buy lingerie more when I'm trying it on while looking at the ad of the practically naked model busting out of the top with hip bones jutting out of the bottom and a seductive smoky-eyed look on her face. I just makes me say "i give up". They should get a clue!

I get ya. I know some women like looking through the catalog, but I don't. It discourages me. I used to get it (warning--if you order anything from them, they then bombard you with their damn catalogs). I actually requested to be removed from their list b/c I was tired of getting USED catalogs that discouraged me. (*USED: With creased pages, fingerprints, possible DNA--I suspect from postal workers. Ew and no thank you.)

There was one model in VS who was very small-chested. I tore out a couple of her pics and still have them. but her pics were like one or two out of the whole catalog.)

Please feel free to email me privately if you want some workout/nutrition advice. I am not a trainer (though I think strongirl is??) but hubby and I have both been into the fitness/muscle thing for years and we're friendly with lots of trainers too, so though I'm not a "professional" I'm open to offering advice.

Oh, a couple of really good books I like are Sculpting Her Body Perfect by Brad Schoenfeld and The Truth by Frank Sepe (though the latter is more technical). You might also checkout the "Dummies" books for more info on nutrition and exercise. One thing I like is that all of these include photos of real-looking, normally fit people, not just bodybuilders and "enhanced" fitness models.

Good luck!!!!!!! I really admire your dedication to your health and body. You know we'll all support you here!
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