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> small breast support group - (I need it even if they don't)
discowombat
post Jan 26 2011, 03:53 PM
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Random thought, but I watched the Swedish version of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo movie and Noomi Rapace is smoking hot and a total badass in it. She has small breasts but the character she plays is clearly comfortable with her body.
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strongirl
post Jan 26 2011, 02:15 PM
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I agree with y'all. I really admire Spot-on for her intelligence, honesty, and generosity and I will miss her posts. (And Spot-on, I also think it'd be lovely if you decide to pop in now and again to share.) At the same time, the purpose of this thread is to celebrate the positive experiences of life with small breasts and to support each other through the negative experiences. Post-implants, there's not much we can offer her and vice versa.

And I so agree with you, Karategrrl, about how awesome this place is - that is the real reason I continue to read and post here. Somehow, it has attracted an absolutely amazing bunch of women who are not just smart but wise. The insights go far beyond body issues and into social dynamics, relationships, and just plain how to live life well. I've been deeply moved by the things that folks in here have dealt with and impressed by the level of intelligence and just plain good-heartedness. I honestly don't think about boobs that much and truly do love and enjoy mine, but I keep coming here because you all are just so freaking cool!!!

I really liked that article, Karategrrl - and I think there are lots of men who think that way, they just need more encouragement to speak up.

nbdx, so much is going on in here but I don't want to miss commenting on your post below. I thought the way you addressed Spot-on was very graceful and sensitive. I admired the way you handled that. And the same in your perspective on your mom. You are coming from a high place, and your balance and dignity shows.
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karategrrl
post Jan 26 2011, 10:07 AM
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QUOTE(KeraBear @ Jan 25 2011, 11:43 PM) *
It was weird because for awhile it felt like we were celebrating plastic surgery. And I was like, "noooooooo not in the small boobie forum!"

Me too. I was hoping this forum wasn't going to go too far from small boob support. I wasn't thrilled at first, but I'm really glad she shared. I've never known anyone I was close enough to who had it done, and I guess here there's a certain amount of privacy--I mean, she sent before and after photos when I asked, and answered any and all questions we all asked. So I must say I learned a lot. But she never pushed any of it on any of us, never said any of us should do it--she just spoke purely from her own experience. And, considering a lot of our own anti-implant feelings, I think we all kept it very civil and surprisingly supportive. That's why I love you guys. smile.gif

And I have to say I posted, on Facebook, that article DJ shared. Not ONE person commented. Of note was that I posted, right after it, something unrelated that was kind of stupid-funny, and of course, I got 4 "Likes." I've given up on FB for anything remotely intellectual. I'll get that here.
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KeraBear
post Jan 25 2011, 06:43 PM
Post #764


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Posts: 265
From: USA


Awww, it's too bad that Spot-on decided to leave. Actually I am really surprised that things didn't turn "ugly" earlier. Actually, if you take out the miscommunication between Spot on and nbdx, things were seemed pretty civil for the most part. But it was pretty inevitable that some of the anti-implant feelings would surface once again - based on past conversations about it anyways. It was weird because for awhile it felt like we were celebrating plastic surgery. And I was like, "noooooooo not in the small boobie forum!" ha ha

Spot-on, thank you again for being so willing to be open and honest about your experience. I did find it all quite intriguing. Feel free to poke in here every now and then even though you are not officially in the "club" anymore. smile.gif
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karategrrl
post Jan 25 2011, 11:39 AM
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Heh heh, interesting "befores" and "afters" here:

Worst of Photoshop
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karategrrl
post Jan 25 2011, 09:16 AM
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OMG DJ, Thank you for that link! Amazing article by a man who <gasp> GETS IT.

(And thanks for helping me rediscover the Good Men Project!)
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karategrrl
post Jan 25 2011, 08:42 AM
Post #767


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QUOTE(dj-bizmonkey @ Jan 24 2011, 09:47 PM) *
for some of us, that may be surgery, for others, it may be an erect middle finger at society, and for others still, a zen acceptance of the world and ourselves, as flawed.

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif LOVE IT!!! Welcome back! We've missed you!

What synchroniciity, DJ!!! I was just thinking about you the other day and wondering where the hell you've been!!!!!!!!!!! Warm small-booby hugs to you!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I too have to say I do feel betrayed when others choose surgery. And yeah again--I could never undergo that myself but if there was a pill or something safe, easy, and didn't stand me on the road to future additonal surgeries, I'd probably do it.

I feel bad that spot-on is leaving the forum but since it's a small breast support forum, well, I understand.

I have to say, too, that I've listened to some breast enlargement hypnotherapy and though I can't vouch for the effectiveness (I've not been disciplined and doing it even half as often as you are supposed to), I have to say it has, ironically, been great for me loving what I have. Like, instead of feeling like I want them bigger and THEN I'd love them, my mind shift is now more like, I send them love and since I love them so much, I just want MORE of them. If that makes any sense.
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nbdx0645
post Jan 24 2011, 07:29 PM
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QUOTE(spot-on @ Jan 24 2011, 02:54 PM) *
That is EXACTLY how I meant it, no condescending attitute or disrespect implied, and was in NO WAY projecting! All of you who knew me in the past and the struggles I have had with my breast insecurities KNOW that I was VERY openly vocal about my opposition to implants. I was just lightheartedly saying that you MAY find in the future that your opinion and attitude towards it may change.


I don't know if you'll be checking the thread still, but I sincerely thank you for saying this and I'm sorry that I took it the wrong (very wrong) way. I recall how hard the journey was for you, and I truly apologize for causing you any additional grief by bringing up a voice of dissent. It'd all be so much clearer if we were in the same room together. You've all been in the back of my mind for the last few days. I haven't been thinking about boobs; it's about the soul.

We can all acknowledge that we've been through emotional hell with our bodies and we want to work to break the negativity that we've attached to our bodies. Breast shame is a topic that's not easily addressed; it's one that causes women to medicate themselves with social/sexual withdrawal, substance abuse, disordered eating, self-harm, and suicide. I also feel that augmentation can be a reaffirmation of standards and stereotypes; implants are something that I've felt quite inflexible on for a long, long time. The last few months have made me revisit and seriously scrutinize both sides of the issue. I'm still battling for resolution. However, the revisit brought up a personal note: my mom and I, despite her implantedness for the last 20-something years (with ~3 years of me being "in the know") still talk, still get lunch, still do what moms and daughters do. We have our bumps and distractions (who doesn't? My mom is the most paranoid creature on the planet and I'm a crazy Atheist daredevil child with 3 'murdercycles') but...her boobs really are irrelevant. I love my mom. I'm glad that in spite of everything, we support and care for one another.
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dj-bizmonkey
post Jan 24 2011, 04:47 PM
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hi everyone! it has been a loooooong time since i posted in this thread or on bust in general. however it was this thread that actually introduced me to the bust lounge nearly a decade ago. i was a young lady, just starting off to college and completely struggling with my body image. i honestly don't think i'd be as comfortable as i am now if it hadn't been for all the great support and advice from the plethora of fabulous women here.

*waves* hi karategrrl! i've missed our exchanges!!

i've been back through reading the posts over the last few pages and a lot of good points have been made. i'm also glad to see there has been a general shortage of trolls, because any thread with the word 'breast' in the title certainly attracts the creepazoids.

QUOTE(insideout @ Jan 24 2011, 10:42 AM) *
I suppose objectively everyone is going to do what's right for them. But I also can't help but notice that beauty standards are perpetuated in large part because of the people who react to them - i.e. people who get implants. And that's not a subjective opinion, that's just reality. Every augmentation preformed, no matter the reason behind it, is a reaffirmation of that standard.


i totally agree with this statement. on the one hand, when it comes to plastic surgery i always think, never say never. i also am a firm believer in individual choice and freedom and i think 99% of the time, it trumps "the greater good," however that might be interpreted. that being said, on a personal level, i do feel kind of betrayed when a small breasted woman gets implants. in our celebrity obsessed culture in the USA, it especially bugs me when small breasted actresses cave to the hollywood pressure. i remember being particularly upset when Kate Hudson, especially after hearing what an asshole A-Rod was to her about them. she's still beautiful and she had them done tastefully, but i was disappointed nonetheless.

i don't want to make spot-on feel like Benedict Arnold, however, because i 100% respect her choice to do whatever the fuck she wants with her own body and her own money. if it floats your boat, more power to you, who am i to stand in the way of your happiness and satisfaction?

i could never opt for surgery myself, because it is such a commitment of money, energy and to future surgeries. that being said, if you could give me a pill that would make my breasts grow naturally, i might be inclined to take it. by my own logic, i'd be betraying my other small breasted sisters.

at the end of the day, nothing is sexier than confidence. you can have the perfect body and still be unattractive if you have a terrible personality or no feeling of self-worth.

i just read this article: http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content...-wrong-reasons/

the comments are especially heartening and i love that this website even exists! we are products of our media-saturated culture. Sure, boobs have been objects of obsession since the beginning of time, however their sexualization is highly culturally based. in katherine dettwyler's work on breastfeeding and breast perception in modern and traditional societies, she found over 100 societies were breasts were not seen as sexual, i.e. they were not ogled, fondled or featured in sexual activity. i think a lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea that this is a cultural, not a biological issue.

it is especially difficult to combat this obsession now because of the amount of media we are all exposed to whether we like it or not. we are products of our culture, even if we rebel against it, and our unconscious minds are shaped by forces we are by definition, unaware of.

i'm not sure where i was going with that, suffice to say, you shouldn't beat yourself up or anyone else for feeling inadequate in the body you've been given. once you are aware of why you feel the way you do, you can make an informed decision as to how to proceed. for some of us, that may be surgery, for others, it may be an erect middle finger at society, and for others still, a zen acceptance of the world and ourselves, as flawed.


--------------------
"To lose everything at the edge of such a glorious eternity is far sweeter than to win by plodding through a cautious, painless, and featureless life."
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spot-on
post Jan 24 2011, 04:20 PM
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When you do have your body on display it's hard NOT to judge yourself or hold yourself to an ideal. Like nbdx0645 said "I'm not a stripper; beauty is irrelevant" but when public eyes are on you ALL DAY, in workout clothes it's hard NOT to get drawn into vanity to an extent. I have to have a professional exterior and "walk the walk" as well as talk the talk.


I've only contributed here recently because I wanted to voice the opinion of someone who was the same and chose the surgery route and wanted to offer my experience (good or bad). Lately though I just feel attacked. Before my surgery I admit to being catty about women who had chosen the surgery, I've stated similar opinions on here about my opposition in the past to this surgery. But what I've learned over the last 6 months is that you have to do what is right for you. I've already gone over my own personal reasons for implants but for me there was also the added factor of having gone through all this unhappiness concerning my breasts for over 20 years. I tried various natural methods which don't work, and my attitude was NOT changing. I was in turmoil over having a great athletic body with small breasts. Perfectly healthy and biologically sound small breasts, but *I* wasn't happy. I can honestly say hand on heart I am 100% happy with my decision and it was right FOR ME. I totally appreciate and understand that it's not right for everyone.


All that said, I am bowing out of this forum. If any of you want to continue to contact me for surgery updates and info you have my email.

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spot-on
post Jan 24 2011, 03:54 PM
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That is EXACTLY how I meant it, no condescending attitute or disrespect implied, and was in NO WAY projecting! All of you who knew me in the past and the struggles I have had with my breast insecurities KNOW that I was VERY openly vocal about my opposition to implants. I was just lightheartedly saying that you MAY find in the future that your opinion and attitude towards it may change.

QUOTE(discowombat @ Jan 22 2011, 04:04 AM) *
I don't think she meant it in a disrespectful way. I have been around the forum for several years between two different screen names and she's just stating a fact about her experience.

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insideout
post Jan 24 2011, 11:42 AM
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I suppose objectively everyone is going to do what's right for them. But I also can't help but notice that beauty standards are perpetuated in large part because of the people who react to them - i.e. people who get implants. And that's not a subjective opinion, that's just reality. Every augmentation preformed, no matter the reason behind it, is a reaffirmation of that standard.

And Spot-on I think this statement you made:
"How is surgery different from skin whitening? teeth whitening? Hair dye? Tattoos? Make-up? Body shaping clothing? etc? Other than it's more permanent (kinda) than padding?"
is an interesting one, but I can't agree with everything. Tattoos, for example, are not a beauty standard in the West. That is, if we define a beauty standard as a preference held by the majority or an opinion of bodily perfection held by the majority, then tattoos clearly do not fit. As for your other examples, I don't take as much issue with the rest because they are not permanent. You could have just as well listed shaving or hair styling. I think those sorts of things are different because not only are they reversible, they're uninvasive. That doesn't make them any less of an issue, but I think they must be considered in a different context.

In any case, there's a lot to think about here.

On a positive note: I went to a hot spring yesterday where bathing suits weren't allowed laugh.gif At first I was terrified to be naked in front of strangers and friends, but after I saw how normal it was for Tibetans I loosened up and enjoyed the experience. There are so many different body types out there, and it was refreshing to be among people who clearly did not care what their bodies looked like naked. I saw the whole range of breast size/type on a whole range of ages and guess what? They were all beautiful! We were a bit of a spectacle though . . . Tibetans don't have ANY body hair: no pubic hair, arm hair, leg hair, nothing! So we must have looked like hairy beasts, myself especially since I don't shave!!! They don't know how lucky they are . . .
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karategrrl
post Jan 24 2011, 09:34 AM
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There were SO many comments I was going to quote in a reply, until it just got ridiculous. So let me just say I SO appreciate the strong, intelligent, respectful dialogue here.

I think strongirl said it best:

"If the rest of the world could pull that off like we do in here, it would be a wonderful thing. One of the things I love about our dialogue is that it lets me try on different perspectives in my own head, shift things around, work it out, acknowledge my own inner conflicts...instead of picking a "side" and sticking to it in a dogmatic, stubborn, self-righteous way. I think it is really wonderful that we can use this space to do that - to be honest, caring, and respectful even as we share different perspectives."

I, too, have pondered my own acceptance of spot-on's choice with my personal (mostly negative) feelings about breast implants. I used to be VERY black or white about so many things, esp. when I was younger, but lately I observe my inner dialouge objectively, personally hashing out my own opposing viewpoints...
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discowombat
post Jan 23 2011, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Jan 22 2011, 09:11 AM) *
As I saw it last night, she's stating her experience and projecting. It felt flippant.


You are entitled to your opinion. I didn't think she was implying that everyone will feel that way, but rather that it could happened since it happened to her. Personally, I took no issue with it. I'm just grateful that she has been so willing to share her experience with us. I'm sure she's not the first or last person here that might go the implant route, but I think she is the first person to share so openly. I appreciate it even if it not the choice for me.
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nbdx0645
post Jan 22 2011, 09:11 AM
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QUOTE(discowombat @ Jan 22 2011, 06:04 AM) *
I don't think she meant it in a disrespectful way. I have been around the forum for several years between two different screen names and she's just stating a fact about her experience.


As I saw it last night, she's stating her experience and projecting. It felt flippant.
I'm really, really tired of thinking about boobs. I'm going to go enjoy my weekend.
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discowombat
post Jan 22 2011, 07:04 AM
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QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Jan 21 2011, 07:43 PM) *
Geez, this sounds incredibly condescending. Reminds me of "yeah you're pro-life until you get pregnant." Keep it respectful.


I don't think she meant it in a disrespectful way. I have been around the forum for several years between two different screen names and she's just stating a fact about her experience.
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nbdx0645
post Jan 21 2011, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE(spot-on @ Jan 21 2011, 05:20 PM) *
As for the opposition of implants, well be careful, lol! I was an implant opposer remember!



Geez, this sounds incredibly condescending. Reminds me of "yeah you're pro-life until you get pregnant." Keep it respectful.
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nbdx0645
post Jan 21 2011, 06:40 PM
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I'm a programmer/designer that sits in a cube and I never really thought what it'd be like to be a body on display. I also feel a little bummed because of the pressure that creeps up in professions like personal training and ballet. I stated to my friends before "I'm not a stripper; beauty is irrelevant" but I remember working retail at a fashion store, I really felt insecure with my appearance. Especially when customers (male and female) would eye me over. It felt like an invasion of privacy for $8/hour. I think the worst kinds of insecurities came from women who would tell me how perfect my skinny body was and how they'd kill to be my dress size. Or that they missed being that slim. I think that hurt worst of all, because it felt like my existence was hurting them.

I've looked at my emotional deficiency as a mental issue and worked with a counselor to break down some of the false truths I made about my body. I needed intervention too, something had to change, so I saw a different kind of specialist.

I really like Strongirl's quote, "So I feel sad about the cultural phenomenon of implants and happy about her individual outcome with implants at the same time." The weirdness feels like a buffer overflow -- there's a part of me that wants to scoff at the ridiculousness that is elective surgery for aesthetic gain (I'm throwing out the "v" word, vanity), and there's another part where I feel thankful that we have these options so we can give patients regulated and safe care. It just feels like implants shouldn't be the first method. It should be the last resort.

Or should breasts even be an issue to start with?
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spot-on
post Jan 21 2011, 06:20 PM
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Insideout: I actually think you bring up good points.

How is surgery different from skin whitening? teeth whitening? Hair dye? Tattoos? Make-up? Body shaping clothing? etc? Other than it's more permanent (kinda) than padding?

I personally don't do any of the above because of societal pressures. I'm not the kind of person that can't leave the house without make-up for example, yet I did have silicone shoved into my boobs. It's an emotional journey. I don't want to look like someone else (like the Tibetans - Chinese) I just don't feel like I was in the body I was supposed to be in.

Strongrl thanks for the comments. For 20 years I've wanted bigger boobs but settled with what I had because surgery is risky. I hated how I looked IRL and in photo's, wearing padded bra's all the time, padded swimsuits etc. Like I said previously you're saying PHYSICAL deficiencies don't exist and they don't, small breast function exactly the same as large breasts. BUT the emotional deficiency exists otherwise this forum wouldn't exist! I do think there are women that ROCK the small breasts braless and all, but that wasn't me and I decided after 20 years it never was going to be me. I was never going to be happy with what I had.

I will say that I feel sexier and am definitely more easily turned on post-surgery. Not because my boobs are bigger, or people are looking at me different (so far only TWO people have asked in the 6 weeks!) but because I am emotionally different. I am more confident in how I look and I've said before CONFIDENCE in how you look is sexier than ANYTHING!

As for the opposition of implants, well be careful, lol! I was an implant opposer remember!
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spot-on
post Jan 21 2011, 05:55 PM
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yes you're right I had that backwards, this is what I get for checking in between work shifts. The point I wanted to make was Her band size SHOULDN'T have increased. She noted she was a 32A before implants, and a 34C after, which as you said was a 32D meaning she went up 3 cups sizes. At most with 200cc's and her small ribcage I'd say she was a small 32C, I only say this cos I got 350cc and ended up a 32DD. There is NO WAY she increased 3 sizes with less than 200cc. As she noted its roughly 200cc for one cup size increase, like I said she's smaller but sorry NOPE no way she got 3+ cups increase with less than 200cc. More likely she put on some lbs and gained some extra boobage from fat.

I agree with what you said to an extent, we shouldn't place such a high value on "looking better" but I think it depends on the person. I guess I am more aware of how my body looks because it's my job. It's hard not to want that perfect body when that is what my clients expect me to have? I see myself full on in a mirror for 2-3 hours a day. Its hard to escape looking at yourself when you're the person in front of the class being looked at by 20-30 people. There IS a pressure to be "perfect" in the fitness industry, and I am sure in many other industries. That said the surgery route was one I had thought about on and off for 20 years, for my OWN reasons not because of anything listed above, I thought about surgery before I was in fitness.Sure small breasts are completely normal and healthy and able to serve their biological and sexual purpose. The disconnect for me was how I felt emotionally. Sure the physical, health, sexual aspects are important but so is mental health. Spending 20 years flip flopping between trying to embrace my small breasts, coveting larger breasts, wearing padded bras took its toll, plus like you said the time spent staring at breasts (mine and others).

I am totally grateful for everything my body can do, and that it's healthy. If there is a perceived deficiency it is real to the person it affects right? I think there are women who are 100% happy with their bodies regardless of size/shape and more power to them. But then there are women who aren't happy. And that's why we have spanx, hair dye, make-up, padded bra's etc. Again JMO

QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Jan 20 2011, 05:15 PM) *
When the band size goes down (in this case from 34 to 32,) the cup size goes up, so it's actually a 32D.

Forgive me for my thoughts, but I do feel like implants are a means to correct a perceived deficiency that doesn't really exist. Small breasts on any type of body are completely normal and healthy, they're able to produce milk and receive pleasure. So where's the disconnect? I agree with the previously quoted comment to an extent, because I don't believe that we should be such high monitors of our physical appearance and we shouldn't place such a high value on "looking better" for others, and even for ourselves. I think about how much time I spend staring at my breasts, and then I think about how much time I gaze at my coworkers, family and friends. I don't know if I could really say that an enhancement would only be for myself. I forget what my breasts look like in my day-to-day life. I forget what my entire body looks like most of the time. Do I think that implants are a self-fulfilling prophecy? You betcha. Once you convince yourself, the universe falls into place. But what I'm saying is one opinion and I'm hoping that it isn't taken personally.

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