[sassy]

jewels: Mine doesn't really smell like fish either. I'm not sure what it smells like...just bad. My rash is under control after my dermatologist gave me a topical antibiotic so it wasn't boric acid caused either.

I'm going to try the hydrogen peroxide soon as well.

I also wonder sometimes if it is caused by bacteria from the anus. My boyfriend has commented that my vagina and booty openings are really close together...so I wonder if I'm just weird and that is why it's constantly getting reinfected? I'm really careful about hygene, especially because of the BV, but maybe there is nothing I can do to prevent it.

[jewelscando]

I'm so glad someone on here finally mentioned the other smells besides Fish. I have more of a shit smell more then anything. Sorry for the language. I just went back on Boric, because my rash is finally gone. I will definately know this time if it comes back that it is related to the Boric. I'm not sure whats worse, fish, or crap. I'm not having sex, so I only smell it when I touch it and do a whiff test, or sometimes I put a Q-tip up there and whiff that. Doctors can't give us any answers girls. Why?? Because there are none. Where I live, they just raised tax's on cigerattes .80 cents a pack. Of course they lie and say it's for education, however, whenever tax's are raised on cigerettes, NOBODY can seem to tell you where the money went. Why not raise some tax's somewhere to find a fricken CURE FOR B.V. since it's THE BIGGEST issue with women in child bearing age. MORE SO THEN YEAST INFECTIONS. What a bunch of crap. I'm sick of it. But, what else can I do other then complain about it.

[chachaheels]

BV has symptoms which are common to many other ailments and diseases--it's best not to guess, but to go and have BV actually diagnosed so that you know for certain your symptoms aren't coming from something more serious.

Then, when you know for sure it's BV, you can try any number of the various treatments other people have said were successful on here.

[unicorntrainer]

I just realized that what was going on with me was BV, I've never had it before. Generally, if I start on a regiment of garlic, vitamin c and tea tree, I should be able to clear this up. Right? I have friends who have cleared up yeast infections with garlic almost overnight. I just want some reassurance. Thanks.

[autumnbreeze]

Deprime: I know you said you've tried everything, but have you tried the Hydrogen Peroxide douche? I have been battling BV for 4 years also. This is my first time trying "home remedies". The hydrogen peroxide works WONDERS!! Also, on some of the older posts there was a lot of talk about vitamin C inserts (low milligrams). I haven't tried this but some have had success with it. I am no doctor or health guru but I believe that trying too many things at the same time or in succession may aggravate or confuse the body. I've been doing a hydrogen peroxide douche (7 days, then 1x weekly) and taking probiotics orally and I am seeing major progress. I'm going to stick to this regimen for 2-3 months before I jump to something else. I've been doing a lot of reading on this lately and many article/studies state that there are several different strains of Lactobacilli in the body (not just acidophilus) and to regain the healthy flora, one should take a probiotic supplements that contain atleast 3-4 strains of lactobacilli and it still make take atleast THREE MONTHS of consistent use to recolonize the good bacteria and regain the PH balance down there...and regaining and sustaining the PH balance is the only thing that is going to keep BV at bay...Just my 2 cents. Good luck to you!

[chachaheels]

First, you need to find out what kind of anemia you've got. I"m not missing the fact that you have some difficulties with digestion as well: that may be directly related to the anemia. Take this seriously: you need to get a clear diagnosis so you know exactly what you're dealing with. This isn't something your gynecologist will help with--you need a blood specialist for more information here. You'll still need your gynecologist but I'll get to that below.

Iron deficiency anemia is the most common type. When red blood cells are lost as a result of too much blood loss, a deficiency of iron occurs. Sometimes, iron supplements are used successfully: I'm not sure it's the way to go, as they seem to cause more trouble. It's best to get your iron requirements from foods, and avoiding foods which deplete iron or B vitamins.

One other thing I want to say here: I suspect endometriosis or at least fibroids with anemia every time I hear about excessive bleeding in the menses. Please go and have these ruled out or confirmed. They can be easily treated with homeopathy, but it really is good to know exactly what is taking place in your case. Even though your doc doesn't "think" you have endo, it is worth your while to know for certain one way or the other. This will be vital information for you to use whatever you choose to do to treat it. It's not enough to go on a "guess".

Pernicious anemia is associated with autoimmune disease, it develops at the last stage of autoimmune gastritis when the gastric mucosa has been destroyed. In this form of anemia your red blood cells are then destroyed by an autoimmune process. As a result, the body can't use the B12, digestion is compromised (you'd get IBS type symptoms) and the body can't produce the red blood cells anymore. Some say ten to fifteen percent of people who suffer this kind of autoimmune gastritis are suffering from pernicious anemia. Vegetarians, particularly vegans, are at high risk for pernicious anemia. Treatment with injectible B12 works for this well, but the B12 injections will be required on a life-long basis.

You really should find out exactly what kind of anemia you're dealing with here. That's another place where your diagnosis has to be clear.

Once that's done, and for everyone who wants a supportive B vitamin supplement course of action:

B vitamins are really necessary but supplements on the market are not always very good quality.

B12 in the form of methylcobalamin drops, injections, or sublingual tablets is the best form of supplementation. You will want to take 10,000 micrograms (mcg) per day. You can find tablets or drops usually in the cyanocobalamin form, but it is possible to get the methylcobalamin form, so keep looking. If you can't find the better form, the other form will do. It just has to be converted in the body from the cyanocobalamin to methylcobalamin. I'm trying to save a step.

If injectible is the only way, set up a program with your doctor so that you can have injections on a weekly, then monthly basis. If you have options other than injection, I have seen this compounded in a cream form too (usually for use with kids) but you will probably need a scrip to get this from your pharmacist.

You can usually find the sublingual B12 mixed with folic acid. I prefer this--this way you don't mask a folic acid deficiency inadvertently.

These go well with other highly absorbable forms of B vitamins on the market. I've seen a product around called Magnelevures, made by UNDA. This makes a drinkable form of B vitamins sourced from yeast, which you take on an ongoing basis. I like it, it's pleasant to take and highly absorbable.

Niacin, thiamin, folic acid, biotin, lipotropic factors, choline and inositol, the many numerous forms of B vitamins out there--a mixed B vitamin supplement is a good way to get many of these (but not a great way). Look for a supplement that does not encase their nutrients in magnesium stearate (you'll never absorb the nutrients). As always, drops, sublingual tabs, melt-on-the-tongue strips always work better; seek out a supplement by a company like Metagenics, Thorne, Douglas Labs, Biotics Research, Da Vinci Labs--they are more expensive but you are taking formulations you can actually use. Any B-combination vitamin from these manufacturers is a good, reliable source you'll actually utilize in the body. And, any time you take a B6 supplement, take it with pecans. They enhance absorption and actually magnify the nutrient availability.

The very best sources for B vitamins, and iron, of course, are food sources. Red meats, fresh, raw vegetables of every kind, deep green leafy vegetables (less spinach, more collards, beet greens, dandelion greens, etc) and whole grain--NOT refined--foods. Avoid all "enriched" foods or foods made especially with enriched wheat flours, as these actually deplete nutrients from the body they are so refined (these flours are always used in "whole wheat" breads, rye breads, and actually the majority of commercial bread products). Fresh cold water deep water fish (eg., salmon, arctic char, sardines, herring) are good; as are all forms of shellfish. As always, I suggest finding the very best sources of these foods--organic veggies, wild (as opposed to farmed) seafoods, or free range, naturally fed, pastured beef, lamb, and pork is always best. You'll also need to consider adding fats like butter, full fat milk and cream, eggs, and organ meats like liver to your diet (or take a very pure cod liver oil capsule every day instead). If you are vegetarian, you'll have to supplement to replace the meat nutrient sources. Consider practicing an ovo-lacto vegetarianism over veganism as there is no way to gain these nutrients otherwise. Please don't balk at the saturated fats, they are absolutely essential to nutrient absorption, hormone balance and production, and for treating what may be going on in the digestion if there is indeed an autoimmune process underway.

Of course, lactofermented foods are great--especially as a source of live cultures, which you need; taking digestive enzymes are helpful too (papaine, bromelain; proteases, lipases, amylases--you can easily find full digestive enzyme formulations to take with each meal to help ease the digestive issues).

It would pay, at this time and after such a long time of prolonged heavy bleeding, to have your thyroid checked out for function as well. A lack of iron inhibits thyroid hormone--so you will want to assess how well your thyroid's functioning too. It'll give you more information regarding the state of hormone balance in the body to boot. To be on the safe side, cut out all soy foods except for organic tofu or fermented forms of soy like miso (and have those once in a while). Check labels for ingredients described as "hydrolized protein", MSG, protein isolates, etc., as these are all just code words for soy. It's goitrogenic, meaning it will hinder proper thyroid function. Watch your intake of cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, and other cruciform veggies--they are okay if they are lactofermented, but they're also goitrogenic if they're eaten any other way.

That was one long post. I still think you're in a position to benefit from a classical homeopath so if you need more information and resources to that end, please PM me.

[beetlegrl]

chacha-you ROCK....

I definitely don't want to have any surgeries....so I'm willing to try anything else.

I did ask the Doc about the endometrie thing during my last visit (which was Sep) and he said, no you 'probably' don't have that.

I'll get some Vit B supps...what is a good dose? I don't want to overdo it, and I've heard that multi-vitamins really aren't as great as everyone says.

As for diet modification.....I try to cook healthy stuff and am sorda looking for a diet that promotes healthy moods too (my hubby is a depressive type person)...so I'm open to any suggestions.

Thanks for all the help!!

This thread has improved me 100% already......amazing what a support system we can make for ourselves....if we had to rely on med Docs entirely we'd all be TOTALLY NUTS for sure!!

[chachaheels]

I should not say this, but: Oh. My. God.

First, Beetle: If anemia has been diagnosed, and it does fit with the heavy bleeding and cramping, please know that Anemia can be very effectively treated. You've not been diagnosed with endometriosis, so unless you have an exam to rule it out (which I recommend if you haven't had one yet), there is no need to even consider it.

A hysterectomy is not necessary, either for treatment of endometriosis OR anemia. Please consider treating the anemia (largely done with B vitamin supplements and dietary modification if you want to use nutritional means--but also, very easily done via homeopathy) before having a surgery which will be drastic and unnecessary.

Eralc Alegna and deprime: topical steroid use will cause skin tissue to dry out, thin out, crack and break open.


Deprime, your case looks completely iatrogenic to me (that means it's actually been made worse by the "treatments"). That is not necessarily a bad thing: only a very strong body will fight against symptom suppression when those symptoms are treated with drugs which are only designed to mask or cover up the symptom (and the drugs you've used are just that). If the symptom keeps coming back, it may be horrible, but it is preferable to the symptom disappearing only to have the infection relocate to a deeper, more vulnerable organ where symptoms will be hard to notice (while you get sicker and sicker).

Okay, Deprime: you've tried conventional medicine and they've got nothing. I would say now is the time to seriously consider an alternative medical approach. I would always recommend classical homeopathy because I know it works if it's done right--but you have to know what's expected and you have to understand that you will need to take a holistic approach to healing--no magic bullets, no hocus pocus. It's a process which takes committment from you and some time. I don't know anything about your case, but if you've been really sick with this for 4 years, I would basically say it should take about 4 months to clear up what's going on--and then you'll need to take an active role in making the necessary changes in your life to stay healthy.

You've got nothing to lose: but don't make the mistake of thinking alternative medicine involves self-medicating with over the counter products. If you want to use herbs, find a qualified herbalist; if you want to use traditional Chinese Medicine, find a qualified Chinese Medical doctor; if you want to use homeopathy, find a qualified classical homeopath. All of these methods use very powerful, very thoroughly researched medicines; and all of these modalities require 5 years of basic medical training. You've got to invest your time and committment to whichever one you choose but the pay off will be your regained health.

Eralc Alegna: You may have Lichen Schlerosis, but it sounds to me to be an iatrogenic form (meaning, if you hadn't been using the steroid creme you may never have come down with it). If it were me, I'd stop using the cream as it is making complications externally as well as internally. The skin symptoms of thinning and breaking are to be expected with this drug, and I do think they would make parts of the skin harden up (especially if the skin were thinning out). I'm not telling you to stop using it (not my decision), but I am saying the steroid is a big probable cause.

Either way, I'm beginning to think some B vitamin supplements would make a huge difference in this disease, just to give the body a lot of support in addressing some of these recurrent symptoms. Who was it who mentioned the folic acid idea first on this thread? That was a great suggestion. B vitamin supplementation is a huge treatment for anemia (it's generally a bad idea to supplement with iron as a treatment for anemia, as iron is actually dangerously stored in the body instead of being absorbed and properly used, so the "deficiency" doesn't come from an actual lack, just a dangerous tendency). It's also so necessary for proper digestion (which would address the IBS from stress). It certainly wouldn't hurt to use as a support in Deprime's case or Eralc Alegna's.

Deprime, if I can be of any help with resources about various alt.meds, let me know. Eralc Alegna, I strongly suggest the B vitamin route for you, I know it could not hurt and may help a great deal; Beetle, definitely try to address the anemia before opting for surgical procedures! I daresay homeopathy would really help you too--I can think of at least 4 or 5 remedies that have the symptoms of heavy, prolonged bleeding during the menses, cramping, and anemia, just off the top of my head. Wouldn't it be nice to just have a predictable, manageable period which doesn't require painkillers, time off, lots of pads, and drugs?

[Eralc Alegna]

i've found that i've been itching a bit (i even had a few cracks in between my labia) at the very end of my periods for a few months.

I get the same thing too. Theres one spot in particular on the lower left that always itches for some reason. I mentioned the itching and burning when I urinate (burning due to the cracks around my lower labia and anus) to the doc a while back and he said I had Lichen Sclerosis. You can google it to find out more. I was perscribed clobetasol which is a steriod cream that I use occasionaly when it gets bothersome.

I've been meaning to bring this up before.. ChaCha, is there a chance the clobetasol could be aggravating the BV because of the steriods? Is there something better I could use to treat the cracking and itching?

Deprime - i too am lost because i just went to the doc and was told nothing is wrong. supposedly no infections at all and yet all the symptoms rage on. I feel for you, but have you read much on here? we're all as lost and frustrated as you...

[deprime]

Oh my, I can't take this anymore. I've posted once in here before (under another name), but a series of unfortunate, utterly embarassing events has led me back.

I've had chronic BV for FOUR YEARS STRAIGHT now (ages 17-21). I don't know why it started, but my life has been hell ever since. I've been prescribed every type of medication known to man for this problem -- Flagyl, Clyndamicin cream, Relagard, etc. etc. I've also done Tea Tree Oil douches, boric acid suppositories (which just gave me a rash all over), lactic acid suppositories, Enzara, gone on a mostly organic diet, sticking all sorts of acidophilus suppositories in me, etc.

I remember that Jewels once said that people would think we were crazy if they knew the kinds of things we were sticking in ourselves! lol.

Anyway, I can't control this in any way, so lately I just wear a tampon all the time to sort of "plug me up" in order to get through the day with little smell. I smell HORRIBLE most days...not even like fish anymore: trash, feces, fish, or just nastiness in general. Why is this happening? I have no idea. I've been to gynos in FOUR STATES about this. I even went to see a woman recently in my home city at a large research hospital, and she could give me no explanation. Worst of all, much like going to the car mechanic, I had no BV clue cells the last time that I went.

I can't take this embarassing smell anymore. My boyfriends parents always have to sniffle around me because I stink so much, and one of my co-workers today got a whiff of me without a tampon in... his face cringed in disgust. I'm sick of trying everything, because nothing works! (The Tea Tree Oil worked for about a day, but then I guess I became immune to it.)

Help! My life is being RUINED by this.

[beetlegrl]

Hey chacha...

I have been told for yrs that I am anemic..in fact I used to always be the one turned away from blood donation drives because of it...I always felt useless for that. I also have IBS (according to me doc) but I think it's from stress-which I guess could be contributing to all this other crap-I HATE MY JOB...but only 5 more weeks so maybe it will go away.

I had my recent gyno tell me that I could have a hysterectomy to get away from the heavy periods. Which are heavy for 4 days-generally soaking through a regular tampon...I can't wear super they are too big for me. The cramps are also pretty bad...but it's only four days of hell, so I suppose there are people who are worse than me....

My aunt had a hysterectomy from endometriosis, so maybe it's hereditary...but I'm only 29-not really ready for that drastic of a procedure. I like my parts wear they are when they work like their supposed to...I don't want to kick out the roomie for shrinking my pants in the wash ya know?

[chachaheels]

beetlegrll, if your periods are so heavy, has anyone ever ruled out Anemia, endometriosis, or thalassemia (hemochromatosis) in your case? It might be a good idea to have your blood tested just to rule out any problems with iron absorption--the endo could be diagnosed with a pelvic exam. All of these may be reasons for the excessive bleeding during your cycle (oh, and by the way, when you say excessive bleeding, do you mean heavy flows for 3 to 7 days, or a period that has a heavier than normal flow for more days than "normal"?

I'm really not liking the way the birth control pill is being marketed as the freedom from your menstrual cycle pill. Grrr.

Redfawn, I usually consider a discharge after any kind of remedy to be a good sign--at least something is happening which is creating wastes which have to be flushed out. Your infection may be clearing; but then again it may be getting worse before it gets better.

You have to wait and see what will happen after you've given the Rx time to take effect, and time for your body to react to its primary action.

[redfawn]

i was just prescribed flagyl for a bacterial infection my gyno found last week. i didn't have any smell, but i was having a lot of cloudy discharge and itchiness. i've found that i've been itching a bit (i even had a few cracks in between my labia) at the very end of my periods for a few months. it didn't start until i'd been using a divacup. i hope this doesn't cause bv.

my problem is this. i've taken all my the last two flagyl (one day left out of seven!) and i have no itching, but i still have a lot of discharge dripping into the toilet when i pee. it doesn't smell, but it has white flecks in it. not big ones, tiny little white dots (like when you mix up crystal light to drink and some of the powder doesn't get mixed with the water). does this mean my bv isn't going away?

[beetlegrl]

Thanks so much for the timely responses!!

As for the compounding pharmacy, we have one in the area and was told that a script is required by FL state law for anything made in their facility.....so once again.....have to go to the Doc for any help, which if I look enough I'm sure I'll learn that's a scam.......

As for the pill for me, it really isn't necessary since I've had a tubal ligation years ago because I decided if I ever wanted kids, I would adopt, the only reason I take it is because of my periods and how painful they are....but after this little extravaganza I think I'll take a painful period over BV issues anyday.

I'm pretty sure the HP douche I did last night is working, I have no discharge and no odor, so hopefully this is my answer since I'm going to have to go on a scavenger hunt for the capsules to make my own boric acid supp.

thanks again, and I will keep the updates coming....

Oh and neverending: the Cirque rocks!!

[chachaheels]

Beetlegrl--try calling your local pharmacists to see if they do any custom compounding. If they do, chances are good they make up the boric acid suppositories to sell over the counter. I would also call around to any of the health food stores nearby and the Whole Foods to see if they stock them, that way you won't feel like you've had to drive an hour out of your way.

Making the capsules up one by one is a bummer, but it isn't so bad if it's your only choice. It cuts the costs down considerably, though you do have to do a bit of calculating to see exactly how much of the boric acid you're putting into each cap.

As for why isn't there a pill for the guy, well, the answer to that question is multi-layered, economic, and political. And it all comes down to the fact that though "medical science" behind pharmaceutical drug producers won't pay attention to or study the hormonal realities of women's bodies enough to never cause harm with their formulations yet still feel like they can experiment on us, they don't feel they can sell a birth control pill to men, who wouldn't be operating under a similar type of responsibility or desperation regarding fertility control. Society simply doesn't force men to bear the full responsibility of unwanted or unplanned pregnancy as it does women: hence, men would make a lousy market for the drug. Ugly but true. Especially since, ever since I was a small child, I've been hearing about how the male birth control pill is just a scant "10 years away". It's more than 30 years later, and they're still saying "10 more years!"

But there are other options which won't have such a long term impact on your glandular function and hormonal balance and health.

[latinrican]

Thanks, chacha for the recipe.... I will definitely try it. I'll let you know if I have any problems with making it.

[neverending]

Update: This was my second night on the estroil suppositories and the discharge is gone for now.I hope I don't have to go back on birth control. The treatment takes about 3 weeks so I will keep everyone updated.

beetlegrl:I KNOW THIS IS OFF SUBJECT BUT I JUST HAD TO SAY I LOVE CIRQUE DU SOLEIL.

[beetlegrl]

neverending: I didn't have BV problems with Ortho-tricyclen, but with the seasonale, I seem to live with with it. BC pills are the DEVIL. Why is there STILL not a pill for the GUY??

I tried the HP douche last night and laughed so hard while trying to hold it in Cirque du soleil style, I'm not sure it was in long enough. Will try again tonight-minus the laughs I hope. It didn't help that the hubby was cracking jokes the whole time....maybe throw him out during the escapade.

Also: they don't sell the boric acid suppositories anywhere near me, but I do have a whole foods about an hour from me, maybe I'll try them? Probably will end up having to make my own.

[neverending]

beetlegrl: I just wanted to let you know that I too have never had problems with my body until I started taking birth control.This sucks!

[chachaheels]

Sorry about the double post, but I forgot to post the recipe for the Beet Kvass drink for latinrican and anyone who might like to give it a try.

You need:

3 medium sized or 2 large sized organic beets, peeled and chopped
filtered water (like from a Brita)
1 tablespoon sea salt
1/4 cup homemade whey (recipe below)

Don't grate your beets or you might end up with an alcoholic drink as opposed to just a fermented one...which really won't be as good as it might sound. Just chop them coursely so that their sugary juice is released in limited amounts, and it will ferment at a much slower rate.

Also, try to find the very best beets--organic, high nutrient, as fresh as possible. This will make a profound difference in the drink's effectiveness.

First: make your whey. For this, you need about a quart of really good quality, organic plain whole yogurt.
(do not use low fat versions, and if you can get a raw milk yogurt that's even better. You need the active culture from the yogurt which concentrates in the whey). Alternately, you can use about a quart of raw milk which you'll sour until it turns into curds and whey.

You need a colander and a clean kitchen towel (or cheesecloth, which works well too) and a glass or ceramic bowl to place underneath the colander. Line the colander with the towel, and then place the yogurt or soured milk inside the colander. Cover this with a plate or a towel, and leave it overnight. The whey will drip into the bowl.

The next day, tie up the ends of the towel, yogurt inside, with string, and suspend this by tying it to a spoon suspended over a deep container. Transfer the whey that you've already collected to a clean clear and refrigerate (this will keep several months in there). More whey will drip out of the suspended yogurt over the next day or so, which you can add to the jar. Once you've collected that, you'll find the yogurt has been drained of the whey and turned into a really rich, very healthy cream cheese, which you can also eat (or use to make a hell of a cheesecake).

I like to put all the yogurt as it drains in the fridge, as I'm not that crazy about the sour taste the cheese gets if you leave it out. The fridge temperature won't kill off any of the live culture and I prefer the way the cheese tastes; you might too.

Okay, you need a 1/4 cup of this to make your kvass.

So..

Place your chopped beets, whey, and salt in a 2 quart glass container (a pitcher is best). Addfiltered water to fill the container. Stir well and cover securely. Keep this at room temperature forthe next 2 days before transferring it to the refrigerator. Pour it through a strainer to serve. It should be a little bit bubbly, but it will taste like beets only a little bit medicinal (it's not delicious, but it's also far from bad).

Drink 4 ounces of this two times a day.

When most of the liquid has been drunk you can fill up the container with filtered water again and keep it at room temperature for another 2 days. The resulting brew will be less strong than the first, but still good.

After the second brew, you'll have to start again with fresh beets, water,and salt, but you can save 1/4 cup of the original liquid to use as your inoculant instead of whey.

If you do decide to do this, let me know how it goes.