[katiebelle2882]

this woman has cried rape how many times before? I am sorry, but I really feel alot of the time feminists cant grasp the idea that women do lie about these things. Why I dont know, but you are fooling yourself if you think a woman wouldnt lie about being raped. I am a feminist, but i fully realize women are far from perfect. I personally know 3 or so from college. Maybe its hard to believe if you have never seen it first hand, but in my opinion, this woman has discredited herself completely with her history (no not stripping before anyone jumps down my throat). I absolutely think the environment these lax players are used to makes it conducive for treating women like shit, and I do think that its possible that they would do something like this. but this particular time, i dont know.

I do hope that if it turns out to be true, that the put those assholes away for life.

[smurfin]

kitten, your link is broken.

I think you may have meant this:

Third lacrosse player charged in Duke rape case

By the way, this article refers to the lady in question as '27-year-old mother of two hired to dance', which I think is pretty cool.

[kittenb]

Sorry, I still don't see a lot of connection.

target="_blank"> 3rd Member of Duke Lacrosse Team Indicted

Do you have any idea how hard it really is to get an arrest on a rape case, let alone three indictments? I belive her story.

[alligator]

kittenb,

The Tawana Brawley thing comes into play because here again was a report of a sexual attack so extreme - and on a minor, no less - that it was believed by the sheer awfulness of it. The alternative, that the girl was lying, struck many people as inconceivable.

But, as we all know now, the whole thing was a lie.

If the "Duke" woman is lying, it could be for any of the reasons other people lie. People can and do say the damnedest things. Apart from false rape accusations, experienced divorce attorneys could tell you horror stories about couples who accuse each other of abusing or molesting their own kids in order to gain custody. How could they stoop so low? Anger, hatred, desire, spite, revenge, grief, dementia... maybe a little bit of each.

Another thing... even a "hit" on the DNA test doesn't mean someone had sex against their will.

[kittenb]

Yes alligator. Why would someone lie about these things? I would like to hear your opinion.
As far as I can tell, there is very little comparison between this case and the Tawana Brawley situation.

I just learned a very interesting fact from someone who has done rape crisis work longer than I have. Apparently if there is DNA/semen from multiple assailients, it becomes impossible to distinguish whoes DNA it is. I guess the contamination cancels out the pertinent information. My collegue is going to send me more information and I will post it as I get it.

[jujubean]

All the players said only team members were at the party-everyone in attendance confirmed that. That is why only lacrosse players are suspects. And DNA did match 90% of the third person indicted today. And considering they were yelling that she was "just a stripper" outside of the house and that "police won't listen to her", I wouldn't doubt that they used condoms. And no search was done until days later, so they had plenty of time to clean the scene up. Just my two cents. Back to lurking...

[hoosierman78]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this all happen at a Lacrosse party? Now, I don't know about Duke, but where I went to school, just because it was a (insert group here) party, doesn't mean that members of that group were the only in attendance. Is it possible she mistakenly identified her attacker as a lacrosse player, when in fact he may not have been? While the DNA found during her post-rape exam pretty well excludes lacrosse players as her attacker, it doesn't mean that she wasn't attacked by possibly a friend of a team member or random party crasher.

While the DA is, for some reason, all for nailing members of the lacrosse team to the wall, why not take a step back and investigate all of the party's attendants. I'd think (I know, I know, this is where I get in trouble) that bringing this woman's attacker to justice would be more important than pushing this case out the door as quickly as possible. There's a difference between quick and dirty, and thorough yet efficient.

[katiebelle2882]

I have no idea why she would. maybe they used condoms? All I am saying is that is sounds very very fishy to me. But anything is possible. I am sure something fucked up happened there, maybe it wasnt rape, maybe it was something else. What i would like to know is if there was semen there, but it just doesnt match any of the players. I dont necessarily think they are above something like what she is saying happened, I just think that them not having any DNA evidence is going to pretty much kill her case. But something else could have gone down.

[alligator]

Why would she lie, if in fact she did?

Why does anyone lie about such things? Why did Tawana Brawley lie - remember that one?

[kittenb]

But why would she lie? Whiel the presence of DNA is hard to refute, the abscence of it does not always prove anything. And please don't say she did it for money.

[katiebelle2882]

so, I know we were talking about the Duke rape case in here and people blaming the victim, but now a second round of DNA tests have not matched with any lacross player on the team. I am pretty sure now this girl flat out lied, and by doing that only furthered the notion that the woman is always lying. I always knew this happened, and clearly it's the tiny minority of cases, but it's still really fucked up.

[lilacwine13]

I agree with him too, greenbean, and am rather grossed out by the whole idea of purity balls (which sound like some sort of sex toy) and the emphasis on virginity in general. I don't like the idea of a father treating his daughter like some sort of property that must be protected, especially if it's anything involving her sexuality. I think that would mess her up mentally, as well as emotionally.

And good lord, I hate the fucking administration and their refusal to believe anything that doesn't fall in line with their fucked-up way of thinking, even if it does involve bending the facts and making up stuff.

[greenbean]

Mark Monford on Purity Balls!
I agree with him 100%. This idea that a virgin is more "pure" and special than a non-virgin is horseshit, and actually very damaging.

[mornington]

according to feministing, a spokesman for one of the people who had it changed (Mark Souder, I think he's a senator) said that now it's a scientific conference - whereas before it was just propaganda.

I think they might have it the wrong way round.

[greenbean]

I fuckin HATE PURITANICAL MORONS!!!
whew. I feel better now.

[kittenb]

That is just fucking ridiculous.

[alligator]

Well, their god is pro-sex as long as you're married and hetero and only use certain positions and have lots of babies and so on...

[kjhink]

Oh. My. God.

THIS is absolutely terrifying.

I am shocked and saddened nigh unto tears. I actually cannot fathom how this country has come to this. "Who cares about science? Never mind teen health. My hateful, vengeful, anti-sex god says that I'm right and you're wrong."

[greenbean]

Woah, katie, I just got outta 4 year relationship too! {{High five}}

Sorry, nohope. Looks like we ladies cant get on the bandwagon. Can we shift the focus on how to STOP the rapists instead of just trying to hide from them?

[katiebelle2882]

considering the fact that i just got out of a 4 year relationship that was relatively boring and unfulfilling at the end sexually, i dont appreciate being judged as a sadomasochist by saying that sometimes, i just want to get laid. i dont go home angry, sad, alone and feeling bad about myself. its happened like 3 times in my life, and have ended up having a friendship with the person all three times. saying that most people go home feeling alone and bad etc etc is a function of that particular persons feelings about one night stands. i dont happen to feel that way if i feel comfortable with the person. i am not doing it out of self-pity or lack of self esteem as some people do. i think that if you are mature enough to know what you want and know the reasons you want it, than there is no shame in doing exactly that. i am a little confused how you equate going to a bar to maybe find someone to hook up with ends up with smashed identities , battered egos and violence? talk about taking things to extreme. not everything has the gravity that you imply in most of your posts, and not everything has to be so serious. if two people can agree on a hookup for what it is...a hookup anbd only that, well then, good for them.

also, i think you have some serious overgeneralizations when you talk about how "most" people go home feeling bad about themselves. if you dont like bars then fine, i dont really care, however, it seems to me that you have a very narrow view. i have made some of my best and closest friends, met so many people from all walks of life that i would not have otherwise met, had some of my most interesting and deeo conversations at bars. two bars in particular where i am a local but nevertheless, its not all about assholes getting wasted and acting stupid and negligent. you can have your coffee houses and other seemingly"enlightened" ways to meet people, i am going to stick to my bars. i am only saying this mind you, because you come off as condescending and snobby.

as for female only bars well, they do exist, and they are called lesbian bars. i have no problem going to one if the mood so strikes me or i am with my lesbian friends. i can pretty much tell you that most straight women have no interest going to female only bars unless they are lesbians or with their lesbian friends. in fact, i bet any bar that didnt let men in would end up being a lesbian bar by default. none of this is a bad thing, i am just trying to point out that its not particularly of interest to straight women, nor should it be if the reason they are going is bc its the only place they are "safe" from men who are assholes.