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> small breast support group - (I need it even if they don't)
starship
post Feb 23 2008, 07:58 PM
Post #3681


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Hi Nelly. I agree with all you said and as in intelligent woman i know that it's right and tell myself this stuff all the time. Which is why it drives me completely insane that I still have this issue with my breasts! No matter how illogical or against my usual beliefs it is, I still cant persuade my sub-conscious to think the same way as the rest of my brain. It's frustrating and I end up feeling like Im trying to kid myself. DjBiz hit the nail on the head with the stuff about it being especially difficult for feminists to reconcile. I think (/hope) it's something that will ease with age because Im determined to leave this world with nothing but home grown goods. Reading some of the more positive posts on here has convinced me that this is achievable (yay smile.gif). Infact Im actually looking forward to being older as my grandma has already informed me of how grateful Ill be of my wee ones in later years (or maybe she was just feeling guilty for not passing on her big booby genes :/).
My boob ambition is to go braless in the sort of outfit you see keira or the supermodels wearing- the sort where their breasts (or lack of) are blatently obvious and they dont give a damn. Might take a lot of work from where I am now but itd be worth it. two fingers to society for making me feel inadequate
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neurotic.nelly
post Feb 23 2008, 06:40 PM
Post #3682


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From: the galatic center


Hello All,

Stopping by again to add to the convo re: powerful boobs. Now, in the article she says it is not the boobs themselves that make her powerful, it is our societies emphasis on them. And for that very reason she is glad she has them. Who puts emphasis on them, though? Men. Boobs give women sexual power over Men, that is all. But what if you are uncomfortable with that and when you meet Men you want them to meet you without all that sexual energy, you want to be met with respect and equality. Don't reduce me to a sexual object, just yet, or I'll cut ya! wink.gif I like having smaller boobs b/c I get looked in the eye, and that is exactly what I want.

In my experience, a few of my friends with C cups and larger seemed less powerful than myself with the small B's. They were harassed constantly... and being constantly harassed brought them a certain level of anxiety about their bodies, being alone outside and inside... I never had as much fear as they did...

There are women with the boobs, that are smart and command respect, and sexually powerful, and they know how to use it and not abuse it, and not be victimized by it, and I say, word up to those women...

It is not the boobs that makes a woman powerful... it is the woman wearing them... it is not the lack of boobs that makes a woman less sexy... it is the woman wearing them... in my opinion. Confidence is sexy. I am confident about other parts of my body, like my ass, and my legs, and my arms, my eyes, and smile, my nose, and cheeks, and I have cool hair. ETA: oh yeah, DUH, I am confident about my tits too! I like having small tits, although I do feel more pressure to stay on the slim side b/c of them. Which means I want to lose about ten lbs, but I still adore em.

The boobies may be more sexually powerful to some, but I think that smaller breasted women have a freedom that larger breasted women only knew pre-puberty.


--------------------
Earth: A Satanically ran planet where 98% of it's inhabitants are unquestioning, conformist idiots who are totally controlled and manipulated by the Satanic governments of the world and have been made complacent by said governments, through rigorous brainwashing.
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Vendetta
post Feb 23 2008, 10:27 AM
Post #3683


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Yep Starship, power. That is the word that comes to my mind when I think about breasts. I love so much being a woman and honestly I really feel that something is missing.
The other day I was doing doing this commercial for tv and they dressed me up as an employee of the store, Worten. The client didn't wanted girls to show any skin so they put me on a man's t-shirt, size Small. So there I was, on grey classic pants, All-Star snickers and a T-shirt and besides my face and hair, nothing would indicate that I was a girl. I was feeling completely self-conscious that my t-shirt was just lying totally flat on me. It sucked.
This friend of mine gave me this button shirt the other day that she didn't used to wear. I was trying it on, buttoning and when I get to chest's part, there were no more buttons. It was supposed to give some cleavage. I got so pissed off and thought "I won't give up" so I grabbed my most padded bra and inserted my two silicone pads. There was no cleavage but I wasn't flat either so suddenly the shirt made sense. But I kept the whole day messing with it because the pads were allways coming off at every arm move and the bra was showing all the time because I have nothing that makes it stay on it's place. It sucked.
I wish I had that power.
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starship
post Feb 22 2008, 06:38 PM
Post #3684


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I was reading some random little article thing ealier that made me think. I dont think her views are anything new or exceptional for me, but she expressed and made me realise the general underlying views which make me want bigger breasts (namely: boobs = power). As pathetic as a feel admitting it i think that the power that comes with cleavage is probably largely to blame for my desire
powerful boobs

Im not sure if the link will work but I found this Carolyn Latteier book quite interesting:
Breasts: the Woman's perspective
anyone read the actual book?

Just popping in to say Hi- got lots of non-breast related essays to write sad.gif

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dj-bizmonkey
post Feb 22 2008, 05:45 PM
Post #3685


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From: the depths of my soul


ok, double post, but here we go.....

i also think that is especially hard for women who consider themselves feminists to reconcile this issue. it is frustrating because we want to be beyond this, outside of the box, not succumbing to the status quo or the wills and wants of patriarchy. i feel that i am a feminist, yet i am still plagued with the sense of inadequacy- that i don't turn heads with my tits. when you take a step back and examine it, it seems ridiculous. but when you are mired in it, there appears to be little recourse.


--------------------
"To lose everything at the edge of such a glorious eternity is far sweeter than to win by plodding through a cautious, painless, and featureless life."
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dj-bizmonkey
post Feb 22 2008, 02:31 PM
Post #3686


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i've said this before, but can we ban the words 'flat-chested' from this thread for good. i mean, nobody, not even guys (except for maybe super super skinny ones) is actually flat-chested. it sounds negative, has negative connotations and i know it doesn't make anybody feel good to be called that.

knorl is right, our self-worth is not based on a reflection. imagine a world without mirrors. imagine living your whole life and never seeing your own reflection. would you be any less of the person you are now? i don't think so.

i sympathize with your frustration vendetta. i mean, if you consider yourself an independent, educated, confident young woman, then logically you shouldn't give a damn about what one man thinks of one body part. the problem is, no person on this earth is an island. there is no way to quiet the external bullshit that we are surrounded by daily. the only thing you can truly take responsibility for is yourself and your actions. no one can wield power over you unless you let them. you've got to break that destructive line of thinking. you need to insert something revealing, comforting and inspiring in its place.

more to come later.......i have to go to class.


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"To lose everything at the edge of such a glorious eternity is far sweeter than to win by plodding through a cautious, painless, and featureless life."
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knorl05
post Feb 22 2008, 02:58 AM
Post #3687


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From: detroit rock city


in my opinion, i think it's so important to not allow our value or our worth to be too heavily influenced by the reflection we see in the mirror. or by others' opinions of our appearance. beauty is subjective. if we go around life trying to please others with our appearance, or look for approval from others, i dont think we'll ever really be happy with ourselves. our self esteem should not have superficial contingencies as far as i'm concerned. sure it's hard to let go of these very real aspects of life, of our society, our culture, the media.... but it's not impossible. even if we can just loosen the grips a little, i think we will be much better off in the long run.

(uht oh. four am. i went back on my vow. hope this post was a bit more cohesive and relevant than the other)

ps. starship. it's cool girlie. "imperfection" when used to describe very real and normal parts of our bodies rubs me the wrong way. but i totally understand what you mean that it's how you feel about yourself, and you did not intend to use it as a blanket term for small breasts. so all i can say to that is. boo. body issues suck. believe me i know. that's why these boards are so great. oh no i feel my brain trailing......... time to go beddy.


--------------------
We adore chaos because we love to produce order.
- M.C. Escher
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Vendetta
post Feb 21 2008, 09:48 AM
Post #3688


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OH fuck it! Men are such sad creatures GOD DAMMIT! How could I let myself go on his conversation or let myself go on beauty patterns that this sick society imposes to us? I've always been beautiful without them, there are plenty of guys who would love to spend their time with me and I am still agonizing about an ARGH guy's preference?? Fuck it I thought I was smarter than that!! I don't give a damn from now on, he wants boobs he can implant them on himself and I hope he marries a total flat-chested woman. I am going to celebrate my good features. Maybe someday I can wear a push-up bra or a cleavage and feel that power, maybe. If I eventually go on for surgery I'm sure he won't be by my side because I don't want to.
I know he loves me for who I am and regrets all those insensitive comments. I have to get over it. Even if, at the end of the day, I lose my interest on him, I am sure I'm going to leave him loving myself again. He's shorter than me damn it lol I prefer tall guys, never thought I would end up with a shorty. And I confess that bothers me! I can't even wear high heels, which I love! lol Ridiculous little man

Cheers girls
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starship
post Feb 21 2008, 07:22 AM
Post #3689


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sorry for my choice of words knorl. I wasnt speaking generally about small breasts but that is the way i feel about mine right now. I dont like my boobs and i wish they were bigger. It aint gonna happen so Id rather work on accepting that theyre only a small part of me (in more ways than one) and most people have things about them theyd like to change if they could
Id love to have small Bs Nelly
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newo_ikkin
post Feb 21 2008, 06:59 AM
Post #3690


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same here nelly. actually it depends on the brand, but I'm usually an A.
I love the shape of mine because they're almost perfectly rounded. Lefty's a tad bigger but its not very noticeable. One of my favorite bras is an underwire and the cup is basically a layer of cloth. It drives my boy nuts when I wear it!
Small breasts rock. So do nipples. lol yay boobs!
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neurotic.nelly
post Feb 21 2008, 03:14 AM
Post #3691


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From: the galatic center


i have large A's, small B's, but let me tell ya'll........................flat chest or small breasts are oohhhh sooo sexy! And beautiful.... that is all biggrin.gif


--------------------
Earth: A Satanically ran planet where 98% of it's inhabitants are unquestioning, conformist idiots who are totally controlled and manipulated by the Satanic governments of the world and have been made complacent by said governments, through rigorous brainwashing.
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knorl05
post Feb 21 2008, 12:23 AM
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sorry lovey, but small breasts are not an imperfection. that is all.


--------------------
We adore chaos because we love to produce order.
- M.C. Escher
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starship
post Feb 20 2008, 04:51 PM
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My post got eaten. grr...
In short I said that some alone time sounds like a good idea Vendetta. My boyfriend and I recently had a 2 week break (non-breast related) and hopefully it will now be easier to sort our problems out properly. I think if you worked on making yourself stronger as an individual then youd be better equiped for any thoughtless comment he might throw your way. It's easy to take things out on those closest to us when we feel helpless but it isnt healthy for you or your relationship.

Everyone has imperfections. Mine just happens to be in a body part that society has sexualised. If i feel my boyfriend is focusing too much on this and not my good parts then i just list his flaws in my head; suddenly i don't feel so bad. It's normal to be abnormal damnit
I just read that whilst Keira knightly apparently appears topless in a new movie called 'Silk' she decided to get a butt double for another film 'Domino'. Im not totally sure as I havent seen either film but i found it amusing that the feature she gets criticised over isnt the one that she's actually insecure about. I so want it to be true
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Vendetta
post Feb 20 2008, 01:08 PM
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Hei star, yes he knows about everything, last September I had to ask him to stop doing that because I was losing my mind. He stopped. The damage was done. And our arguings now always end up on that subject. I guess I hate him more than I love him. I've broke up with him twice, once because I've found out about those messages he sent to some girls in website Hi5 and the second time because he read my diary. And here I am, feeling like complete shit, again around him. I know he loves me to death and he says he's sorry but I dont believe his sorrys and I can't get over the fact that he loves me BUT. I don't want any "buts" in my love/sex life, I want to have it all, like I had before. We kinda live together, I've got my own place but I'm at his place all the time, we share everything, every fucking day, and I can't believe I am almost throwing away a relationship like this because I can't forgive and forget and get over it. I am going to spend some time alone as soon as I get my next paycheck, I really need that. I treat him like shit, I despise him, he feels I don't love him anymore. It's a nightmare around this house. I hate him so much for doing this to me and I hate myself more for letting that happen! ARGH!
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knorl05
post Feb 20 2008, 12:36 PM
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From: detroit rock city


v: this sounds like it's become a very unhealthy obsession for you. it seems like you've become very neurotic about breast size. i've found thinking about something too much without resolve leads to us getting stuck on what we feel is a problem. you're going to have to let this go. dj biz gave great advice about focusing on the parts of your body that you like, but also redirect your attention toward aspects of your character that you like as well. i know when i'm feeling all down about my appearance, i will shift my focus toward something more worthwhile about myself, like my interests. i find that by gaining a deeper perspective about life in general, helps me to see how ridiculous my concerns happen to be. the only reason (i believe) we obsess about these things is due to the culture in which we're raised. you dont see tribes in 3rd world countries shoving bags under their pecs, but you do see some of these women elongating their necks to be considered more attractive. what i'm saying here is that it's not your "fault" for feeling inferior or inadequate due to the size of your breasts... that's what we are dealing with in this day and age when modifying our bodies is entirely acceptable and accessible. you've just got to try to not let this control your life so much. when you catch yourself obsessing about it, or getting angry about it, redirect your attention. try to forgive yourself for getting upset about it but also forgive your man for being a breast man. we choose the people we want to be with, and if you think you could be in a healthier relationship by all means seek one out. you really need to try to get back to a healthier you, which is entirely possible, you just have to allow yourself to move past this concern.

(((dj biz)))
(((starship)))


--------------------
We adore chaos because we love to produce order.
- M.C. Escher
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dj-bizmonkey
post Feb 20 2008, 11:39 AM
Post #3696


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props to knorl, any mention of johnny depp is welcome in my book. mmmmmmm. anyway you are totally right when you say that people feel the need to tear down celebrities/attractive people (starship, you touched on this too). we love to love and love to hate those images. they captivate and disgust us simultaneously. i think kiera knightley is a fox, but we feel the need to take her apart, find her faults, tear her down, make ourselves feel better. it's that same middle school bullshit that makes you spread rumors about your best friend being a slut because she's prettier than you. blegh. it is such a reproachful behavior and it is so pervasive, even into adulthood.

also, knorl, you brought up the pressure from different industries. i think that is completely accurate. bartending, being an actress, entertainer, whatever, there is much more pressure to have bigger breasts and small breasted women in that vein have to work that much harder. not that her breasts are ultra-small, but i feel like Alicia Keys is keeping in real with her body in general. she looks like a healthy woman, not obese and not eating-disorder induced skinny.

starship, no apologies necessary, like i said, that's the genes you got. i ain't mad at ya, or any other naturally thin ladies out there. i am very jealous though. at night i dream of my teen years when i could eat cheeseburgers and milkshakes and it didn't have any visible effects. sigh. now i'm staring at a pile of almonds and grapes, trying to convince myself its the same as cheetos and snickers.

((Vendetta)) First, I thought you broke up with that guy! I totally understand if you are still feeling residual pain and inadequacy. I still deal with the shitty comments the last breast-man i dated made to me. ick. i had a friend in high school who said to me, 'dj, i'm glad you don't have boobs, because if you did you'd be too hot.' what the fuck kind of thing is that to say? similar to what your boyfriend said to you V. i mean, i know she may have been trying to give me a compliment, but sheesh.

i don't think you're being a bitch, Vendetta, but i do think you are channeling all your self-loathing and insecurities into anger towards him. he can't help what he's attracted to, he certainly didn't need to advertise it to you and your brother that you were somehow, less than, but in the end, no one can control who they fall in love with and what they may or may not find sexy. you are obviously a confident, intelligent young lady. you'd probably be shocked to find out how many people in your life envy you for whatever reason. focus on the parts of your body that you like and work it.


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"To lose everything at the edge of such a glorious eternity is far sweeter than to win by plodding through a cautious, painless, and featureless life."
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starship
post Feb 20 2008, 08:45 AM
Post #3697


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I can understand Vendetta. My boyfriend hasnt even said anything as direct as yours and i still feel angry towards him sometimes. In a conversation with some other people once someone asked if guys prefered girls with big boobs and he replied 'thats like asking if girls prefer big dicks'. He said after that he isn't bothered about breasts etc etc but even so I dwelt so much on that one tiny comment. Also when my boobs were a bit bigger (they change during the month slightly) and i was wearing a pushup bra he was really complimentary and couldnt take his eyes off them. I was probably being paranoid but instead of feeling great i felt terrible and like my normal breasts werent sexy or enough for him. I just feel overly sensitive when he mentions anything to do with breasts or even says a girl is attractive who happens to have big boobs. I usually end up overthinking what he says and then find myself becoming angry and resentful towards him because in my mind Im not as attractive to him as other women and just feel inadequate. The things your boyfriend has said are far worse and seem more frequent so personally Im not suprised how you feel. Does he know about how you feel and that you find his comments really insensitive? If he does then ims orry but hes a bit of a jerk because no decent guy would make his girlfriend hate herself. Even though Im attractive in other ways it still upsets and frustrates me that theres something other women have that I cant give him and that in that respect practically every woman he sees will be 'better' than me. If you love someone its natural to want to be the sexiest woman in the world to that person. Your guy doesnt even seem to be trying to make you feel that way so you should just let him know what he's doing to you.

I think a lot of women like to find others who are inferior to them in some way to conceal their own insecurities. Like 'sure Im overweight but at least I have boobs unlike these women'. Its why celebrities who are different will always get criticism from someone. Most women would thank their lucky stars if they woke up looking like keira knightly yet they feel the need to find some flaw to elivate their own self worth. If she had a C-cup then people would scrutinise her nose or her legs or even her feet. Its why many magazines dedicate page upon page to pictures of celebs having bad hair days/a pimple/cellulite etc. It happens in real life too. You see women looking each other up and down as if scanning for some way in which they are superior. I hate to admit but Ive probably done it myself before. Like with people my boyfriend has liked in the past Id compare every part until Id convinced myself I was better somehow. It seems ridiculous now but I like to think Ive matured since then:/


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Vendetta
post Feb 20 2008, 06:52 AM
Post #3698


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I guess you've been my best friends lately lol I can't talk to noone about my issue and I'm turning my boyfriend's life into a living hell. Literally. And in the end I can't even rant with him cause he's already pissed off enough...
Sooo... I'm 24 years old. I'm attractive, smart and yada yada... I've always been pretty happy with myself. Sometimes I would even LOVE myself. Even with my normal dislikes and insecurities, those that everyone has, I thought I had it all. I had the face, the hair, the body. My self-confidence on bed was awesome. I've always been awesome to the eyes of everyone. I'm sorry for my lack of modesty here, but hei girls, we know that if we love ourselves and celebrate ourselves enough, everyone will notice. I've never been in love with my lack of breast but hei.. padded bras, gel inserts and all of that crap were just a part of my wardrobe. And I would even sleep bare naked with my ex-boyfriend, no problem about it. His sexuality was all about me. We dated for 3 years. I would even go to strip clubs as sometimes we usually did and feel great about myself. My God, I had never thought, not only for a minute, that he wished my chest was bigger. Hei, I had never even thought that I didn't had it all. And so I meet this guy...
I don't know where it all started. Because I appreciate women too, he felt confortable to comment them. As I did with my ex-boyfriend. But with this guy, that was my "death sentence". We was mad about big breasts. He once told my brother, hei dude, I'm MAD about breasts, but your sister is just something... We would be watching a porn video and he would say hei that is my kind of breasts, big and a bit saggy. He would say Shakira is fine but has no breasts. And would be crazy about Beyonce's boob bouncing on that video. We even talked about implants. He even said that if I'm pretty like this, it would be a nightmare if I had breasts. When my boobs grew due to a change of BC pill, he loved it. I was talking about it once and he said, laughing, hei baby take 5 boxes of that! I loved the attention he was paying to them. "Hei you have side boob now". And he would be crazy about my "cleavage" and would touch them a lot and.. all of that. I had never felt sexier.
I know, because I searched for, that the first time we went to bed he felt a bit confused about my lack of breasts. And I know he had never been with a small breasted girl before because it didn't attracted him. And I felt, really bad, the difference when my boobs shrunk to their normal size. He wouldn't pay that much attention.
Then I started hating myself. I try to look in the mirror to force myself to like my reflection but it's worse. I can't have him touching or even looking at me sometimes. And then I hate myself for doing this to myself. And I hate the fact that it has became so important and I can't understand why. I keep looking at pictures and magazines and women on the street, all the time, everyday. I keep fantasising about a weight on my chest. I'm obsessed. And totally ashame of being this obsessed about something I find so shallow. Why am I letting this ruin my life and relationship? And when I feel totally depressed I turn it against him. I keep thinking and agonizing about the things he've said and done and blame him and hate him so much. And I go home and despise him. And pick up fights. And I blame him again and again and of course he can't do nothing about it. And I despise myself for knowing I am willing to do something that's totally against my values and I can't understand why is that so important to me, why do I need it so much.
So can someone understand why do I hate him this much? Can anybody put yourself in my position and tell me I would feel the same thing as you do or, you're being a bitch, stop it? Is it really his fault or not that much? How can I forgive and forget the things he've said? We're going to lose each other, really soon.
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knorl05
post Feb 19 2008, 01:39 PM
Post #3699


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From: detroit rock city


i vow to not reply on this board at 330a after 8 hours of punching numbers. seriously dulls my thought processes.

alllso.. just my personal experience. when i was bartending i felt much more pressure to have larger breasts than i do when i work a regular job. i know certain industries and fields of work seem to expect more from personal appearance than do others. i also felt more pressure in my early twenties than i do in my late twenties to look a certain way. i dont know if it's maturity, or if it's that i've just given in to the ways of the (western) world. i have opted out of the superficialmaterialistic gauntlet, but i have yet to let go of my water bras. rolleyes.gif

oh ps dj biz, also: "but there are alot of obese, unhealthy women out there that are being told to 'celebrate and embrace' their curves, when what they are really celebrating and embracing is heat disease, diabetes, hypertension, you name it. i think us women, as a whole, must stand up not only to an unattainable (by healthy, natural means) ideal and also the affirmation and celebration of complacency to our wellbeing, i.e. saying its fine to be obese because 'real women have curves.'" i completely agree.


--------------------
We adore chaos because we love to produce order.
- M.C. Escher
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edie52
post Feb 19 2008, 02:25 AM
Post #3700


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From: back home


I want to say mine are Fiats... cuz Fiats are cool...

I didn't know that Beth Ditto had posed nude- but I'm not surprised. When I saw them play she stripped down to her t-shirt and panties, and was brimming with confidence and sexiness. I also thought she was prettier in real life, much softer looking (maybe it was the southern accent?).

Damn, I want that green dress!
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