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> Porn And Boys, Distressed about my boyfriend and in need of some advice.
dj-bizmonkey
post Jul 5 2007, 02:38 PM
Post #1


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Posts: 431
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i'd say that sounds pretty awful and you might want to go into the 'general advice' dating thread and tell your story in more detail. these ladies can be very supportive. good luck. it also might go well in 'say what, idiotic things our dates have told us,' because that sounds idiotic to me.


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ausjacqui
post Jul 5 2007, 07:46 AM
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Hi, I am a little new to this and I was just wondering what all you "assertive" people (hmmmm before tonight, THAT is actually a word I---and many other people would have described me as---would have done/said to your boyfriend after he called you a fat slut . . . After you had borne his child and did everyhitng to make him feel as if he was coming home to the greatest person/family in the world? . . . Oh well guess we can't please everyone, least of all our very picky and looks conscious men then days . . . Huh?!


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erinjane
post Jul 25 2006, 12:29 PM
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Since people have mentioned both wanting to continue the derailed and original topics, here's the new thread. http://www.bust.com/lounge/index.php?showtopic=52087&hl=


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pixiedust
post Jul 25 2006, 12:12 PM
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Well Greenbean...it looks like there is going to be another thread. Also Lounge lady has a poll up in the community forum about whether or not to change the format to have new posts at the bottom. I think the derailment of this thread caused that, because it was posted after someone mentioned what happened here yesterday.

I don't know if Miss Juliet is still around or anyone else that wants to keep talking about dealing with the addiction aspect. But I'll hang in here if you want to continue. I'm just starting to really be able to look at what I went through objectively and see that maybe my ex wasn't a monster afterall and that his obcession was driving the part of his personality that turned ugly....of course, on the other hand, he needs to take some personal responsibility in what his addiction/obcession made him do.


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greenbean
post Jul 25 2006, 09:59 AM
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Ok, so I just woke up (I'm in California) so a lot of these posts are new to me....

Erin, yes youre right, our definitions are unclear. I forget that sometimes that I live in the highly sexualized bubble that is San Francisco, and I wouldnt bat an eye at some of the things that make others uncomfortable. For one, I don't consider stripping or posing for erotic pictures 'sex work'. To me sex work is prostitution (which is decriminalized here, heck, they advert. in the paper!) or having sex for money in porn.
Stripping and erotic art is cherished here in San Francisco, and very female dominated. One of our most popular strip clubs is owned by the dancers, and many other clubs throw female-created and controlled burlesque nights. My sister used to strip and has nothing bad to say about it, and I have friends on
suicide girls.
Nudity is common even in the street here, we got public nude beaches and at most sf events youll see some bodies, wether it be a marathon or a breast cancer awareness march, the bdsm fair, or burning man.

Zahia, yes, our definition of hardcore differs. What you described is just regular ol' porn to me,..
'hardcore' to me says rape, defacation etc.,....and thats the trigger word that got me to contribute to this thread in the first place.

I wish we could get more into 'porn and boys' here, because eventhough I and other may enjoy a bit of porn now and then, it IS a common concern when the boy is a bit too wrapped up...
so perhaps we can have the feminist discussion elsewhere, and save this one for looking at it through the 'how it affects relationships' point of view?

and pixie I second your definition of porn addiction...


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pixiedust
post Jul 25 2006, 09:35 AM
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That question has been brought up a lot Mr.Fj...I think my definition would be when it becomes a compulsion that you can't control and you feel so ashamed of it that you feel the need to hide it or lie about it to your significant other. Or when it starts negatively affecting your sex life with your SO as in you either would rather have porn than sex or you only want your SO if they dress up or act out parts of the porn. I don't know how everyone else would define it. I think it's kind of subjective.


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mr_falljackets
post Jul 25 2006, 08:57 AM
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So what is the difference between simply enjoying porn more than the average bear and being addicted to it? I mean, am I addicted because 4 nights a week I can confess to having browsed sites with porn-ish material (7 if you count that swingers site we're on)?


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pixiedust
post Jul 25 2006, 08:47 AM
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Zahia, talking through with someone who/had been dealing with this is exactly how this thread started. I believe you were a part of that. I also would not judge someoen for deciding to go into that industry if that is their choice.
I don't see any reason to start a new thread. The discussion could continue here because the origional discussion has been so derailed, I doubt many of us feel comfortable with continuing now.
There shouldn't have been any reason why this thread became such a hotbed. We tried a few times to bring the thread back on course, but then everyone who hadn't been in on it from the begining came in to defend their role in the sex industry.
Erin, You said you don't believe everyone thinks the industry is all rosie, and I think everyone agreed that the specific area we were trying to discuss is disturbing...that is why those of us on this side of teh issue took so much offense to people deliberately derailing the thread and using a few generalization which I think were implied to mean the subject at hand and blowing it all out of porportion.

If you are serious about a feminism and porn discussion, what about my question? Does anyone else see it as conforming to the sterotypes that feminists are against? I am certainly not of the ilk that thinks feminists should be ugly and severly dressed and all that. But I don't think that I persoanlly could be in the industry...even just posing for pictures because to me, it would feel like a sell out. I'm of the belief that a well educated woman has much more to offer the world than her body, even if it doesn't pay as well.
On the flip side, yes, I can also see how empowering it feels to be comfortable with your body and expressing it as you choose.


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knorl05
post Jul 25 2006, 04:43 AM
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erinjane: (i love the idea of starting a new thread, please let us know how that turns out.) you're right in that no one really thinks the sex industry is harmless.. perhaps that's actually one of the main reasons so many people get into it. wow. you know, because no one is disillusioned into thinking the sex industry is about love and caring and productive lifestyles. maybe it angered me watching all that take place because i did have an opportunity to know the dancers, so i was able to put myself in their shoes. but that was them, and it was their choice to take the perceived bad with the good. it goes along with the industry, and people can either choose to take it or leave it. i completely agree with your idea about educating a woman about the industry before she gets into it. that's my main feeling too, because i feel many young women look at it as just fun easy money and perhaps dont realize the negative experiences and temptations that exist. because we all change and mature through the years, and i think it's a huge step to take without knowing the potential outcome of that choice.


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zahia1996
post Jul 24 2006, 10:49 PM
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Erinjane, i will check that out.
Oh, sorry to post AGAIN. I just wanted to suggest to any BUSTies out there dealing with someone who is genuinely addicted to porn...check out the "Addiction: When someone you love has one" thread in Friends and Family. Yeah, its a little more geared to drug/alcohol addiction, but i find it really helpful. My therapist had even suggested Al-Anon meetings (hahaha there's no such thing as sexaholics in the deep south). Both a great places to meet other people struggling with feeling poweless over a loved-one's addictions. And please, if anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me. Sometimes it helps to talk to someone going through the same thing.
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erinjane
post Jul 24 2006, 10:43 PM
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I'm gonna go ahead and suggest it in the community forum because i think this one just got a little too nutso.

I think that's an interesting question to pose to yourself. I seriously doubt I would delve any farther into the industry then the photo site i'm involved with now, but if I had a friend who wanted to strip or become a full out porn actress/actor, I would try and sit down and have an honest discussion with them making sure they'd thought it through and try to get them to research what they're getting into to and who they're getting involved with. There is a lot of shady characters out there.


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zahia1996
post Jul 24 2006, 10:31 PM
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Greenbean- I think I didn't clarify when I said my husband was into hardcore porn. I have never once found evidence that he liked rape scenes, or anything along that line. Really, compared to alot of what's out there, its pretty tame. I just meant that it was like, lots of anal, lots of cumshots, no storyline, just fucking. The facial cumshots bothered me a little, but that was about it. As far as I can tell, he wasn't into watching women being humiliated. (That would have been a whole other ball game!) I was more upset that he was turning to it so often, and how it was changing him as a person, and the dynamic of our relationship. So, for me, watching his porn was a bit of a relief. I realized he wasn't into sadistic, degrading things. The other thing I noticed was how similar the girls were, in body type, to my own. A little overweight, with big boobs and a big butt, but nothing fake. So that at least helped a little b/c I saw there wasn't an unrealistic body type he was comparing me to. Honestly, before I saw that, I didn't know that there even WAS porn that had people like that in it. I always associated it with a very specific body type. I also found out that porn really doesn't do anything for me. Doesn't really turn me on. Eh,so what, I don't like Braveheart either, and lots of people do.
The reason it was helpful for the most part, was that it brought me down from my anxiety ridden, just desperate emotional state, and allowed me to have real conversations with my husband where we were able to talk about why he depended on it, what he got out of it, etc. And once we got through that, and started to see how the porn was really an "escape" from depression and stress (he suffers from PTSD) he took the step to go see a counselor, and get to the real root of the issue. And as I stated earlier, I too, began seeing a counselor (completely separate from him) to help me with my self esteem issues. And I think that thanks to us taking action and responsibility for our own feelings, we've been able to support each other in overcoming a very dark period in our marriage.
Even though I am more comfortable with the "type" of porn he was using, I would still be upset if it started again, because he doesn't seem to have good impulse control when it comes to it.
Maddy- I can't even begin to express how awful I feel for you. I'm so sorry you went through that.
Sigh. I hesitate to even say this, because I don't want to fan the flames. Its just an interesting thought that occured to me driving home tonight. (YES, there is a lot wrong with the porn industry, and it does hurt some of the people that participate in it.) How would I feel if one of my friends, who was confident, and proud of her body, and proud of her sexuality, wanted to earn money from it? Would it really be fair for me to tell her she shouldn't do it? I would never tell my artistic friend that she shouldn't pursue a career in that. And I know, I KNOW, that there is a big difference in the two industries. But who am I to say that someone shouldn't make money off of something they're proud of. I know that it really hurt my feelings when my friends were hyper-critical of my decision to join the Navy.
Please, please, don't take offense to that. I realize its a generalization. I realize it doesn't cover all the "what ifs". I just wanted to share it because it made me think a little.
Oh, and erinjane- I love that idea for a new thread.
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erinjane
post Jul 24 2006, 10:28 PM
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Well, this thread has taken a totally different turn over the course of the day, but I'm glad to see some actual discussion amidst the fighting.

First of all, thanks for falljackets for posting her experience. That is actually exactly what I am involved in now, but it's with many other girls and boys(well, a little more trouble finding boys who are willing) who are modelling for the site, and it hasn't officially launched just yet, hopefully within the next two months. In fact, my icon picture is one of the pictures from my first set. It makes me feel really strong to be a woman with a curvy body that isn't exactly skinny who is willing to show how proud I am of everything I've accomplished in my life and my body. I'm doing a double major, I work at a Women's Resource Centre, I have a lot to be proud of. My opinions and experience is nearly identical to yours. It is definatly empowering for me to be doing this. I think it's something very difficult to explain to people who aren't into it. My friends for example, just don't get it. They think it's great I'm doing it, but they would never want to do it themselves.

Maddy, I'm so sorry that happened to you. It's definatly understandable that you don't wish to learn more about the industry and you shouldn't have to force yourself to find out about a subject that makes you so uncomfortable. I guess all I was asking that those in the thread keep an open mind, and it definatly sounds like you are. Thank you. smile.gif

Knorl, in response to this: "i just cant see how anyone can say that there is nothing "wrong" with the sex industry, when i've seen so many women be hurt through it."
I really really really don't think anyone was saying that the sex industry is all butterflies and rainbows. There is a helluva lot wrong with it, I wouldn't even know where to begin. I'm actually hoping to write my Master's Thesis on feminism and sex work (having just written a final paper on it) and so discussions like these are really invaluable to me, and I've found out incredibly disturbing information on the aspects that are wrong with the industry.

In response to feeling somewhat attacked by some of the comments, it was unclear to me that they were just about hardcore porn, as well, I think some of our definitions are unclear. To me hardcore can be described from something as simple hard fucking, to the really dirty stuff. The distinction was never made so I think that's where some of the confusion came in, simply the definitions. It really sounded like the comments that were made were being generalized to all sex workers.

I think there's some really valuable information in this thread that was starting to get discussed on the current page before more insults started to get thrown around. If anyone still wants to carry on the discussion I hope it can be done here, or perhaps moved to a new thread and just let this one die? Does someone want to suggest a "Feminism and Porn" thread in the community forum? Let me know if anyone is interested and I'll suggest. I for one would like to see more discussion and perhaps some civil debate. I think we have a lot of different opinions and helpful insights to share that can enlighten everyone.


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cloverbee
post Jul 24 2006, 10:11 PM
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you have got to be kidding me. I did say that those in the porn industry are fake and superficial. If you think that they are real and deep, then you may have some issues yourself.
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knorl05
post Jul 24 2006, 09:48 PM
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"self riteous whining".. an interesting way to invalidate another busties opinions or feelings.


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katiebelle2882
post Jul 24 2006, 07:46 PM
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ugh, i give up. clearly pixie, you only read what you want to read. i dont think its a shit slinging contest, and you know what, alot of people had alot of cool things to say. it wasnt even my intention to start the whole thing, just making a point, i certainly didnt want it to get to this point. but it did, and i think everyone had something constructive to say. i wasnt the only one who took issue with it, but you steadfastly choose to ignore that. this is all so freaking pointless. anyway, i am ducking out of this thread and bust in general for awhile bc i am sick of the self riteous whining.

missjuliet-hope you work stuff out

maddy-you must be a super strong woman


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falljackets
post Jul 24 2006, 05:34 PM
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maddy, you are obviously coming at this from a completely different perspective than most people on this board and i can appreciate how you can associate any kind of porn with the horrible things that happened to you. you can feel free to PM me and i'll share.

yes, it was easy money. i did photoshoots once or twice a week usually and came home with a couple hundred at least each time. most of my friends know about it and if they don't, i'd tell them. hell, most of my friends and even some of my family saw the site or at least pictures from it. my parents didn't have a problem with it (fundie backgrounds and everything!). they trusted that i was doing what i wanted to do.

the only people that don't know are my co-workers. i've often wondered what might happen if i showed up in some calendar or something and someone at the plant i work at found it. i wouldn't be embarassed about having done them but i'm sure i would lose my job if it was found out. i wasn't hired for another job because of it. so yeah, it does frighten me.





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knorl05
post Jul 24 2006, 05:22 PM
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katie: "images".. this is the key term. i did not say she, or anyone else, is better than sex industry workers as individuals. no one knows the character or quality of an individual based on their Image. but the substance of anyone, the essence of who we are.. is undeniably more important that anyone's image. she had mentioned she compared herself to their images, and i was reassuring her to not do that.


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greenbean
post Jul 24 2006, 05:18 PM
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Well, seen how I didnt write any of the said offensive material I cant defend or apologize for it, all I'm saying is that whatever has been said was in the context of expressing an opinion on missjuliet's specific sitch,...and katiebelle, you yourself said that male dom porn was "so not cool". and girlwithasecret, I seem to remember you coming out in the suicide girl thread to express your own disapointment in the industry,....
so really, can we cut everyone a little slack for their porn quams?


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pixiedust
post Jul 24 2006, 05:17 PM
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You wanna know what I'm not buying? This started out as an emotionally sensitive thread where people were discussing their experiences with a very specific section of the porn industry. Someone made a generalized statement to the participants of the discussion and someone who is not even in the porn industry starts screaming that we are attacking everyone in the porn industry. And suddenly we have a shit storm. I don't buy that that wasn't a deliberate act to incite people to emotional confrontation.

Instead of talking about ways to rebuild self esteem and get help for the men who have a serious problem...we have digressed to just another shit slinging contest. You win, Katiebelle! The purpose of this thread has been sucessfully killed.


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