[wombat]

Oh, right, right, the casino thing.

And now they say it's the fascist teacher's pet, who's name I forget.

[prophecy_grrl]

Mercer is the guy who runs the casino out of his dorm room (they found GHB in the cash box from last week's robbery).

I thought last night's episode was very good and on par with some of the better episodes of season 1 & 2. I thought the mystery-of-the-week was much better than earlier eps of the season . . . and how 'bout the hot Keith sex?

Still missing the class/race commentary, though and where the hell is Mac?

[wombat]

I'm a little miffed by the rapist plot twists in this show. I mean, once again they are just introducing a slew of new characters willy-nilly at the last minute, mo' less. Who the hell even IS Mercer? I can't remember off the top of my head. I'd have to go look it up on the web. And I am usually pretty good at keeping the threads apart in these kind of shows.

[prophecy_grrl]

I was pretty involved in feminist/left wing activist groups in college (graduated in 2002) and we did have a few of those types of feminists. They were by far the minority, but they held a lot sway in the group and they also grabbed the attention of campus media. I'm not placing a judgment on whether that's good or bad and the group did manage to do a lot under their leadership.

The problem on the show really is that they’re showing just one “side” of feminism, one that happens to be easily caricatured. Veronica Mars is way too smart of a show to not offer a more well rounded critique of feminist activists and frat boys. As sidecar mentioned below, I do think they will turn those stereotypes around eventually. I can only hope that the one-dimensional portrayal of feminists is a narrative device.

That being said, I have been a little under whelmed by season 3 so far. I think the show has lost a lot of its edginess and seems overly concerned with pandering for ratings. I’m not giving up on it yet! As long as it’s on the air, I’ll be watching . . .

[wombat]

I confess, I'm old. I went to college for the first time in the late 70s, when college feminists really were like that. Didn't stop me from hanging out with them, but I hung out with other people too!

When I went back to school 2000-2002, there were no such "feminists" in sight.

Are there any schools that still have doctrinaire, doc marten and crunchy granola and no make up etc feminists these days? Not that that would be bad -- but I'm wondering if the writers are my age and haven't checked out an actual campus -- except to say, oh yeah, kids have cell phones and computers now.

It's kinda like the same old plastic james dean and betty/veronica teenagers you see on tv and in movies.-- cause that's how it was when the middle-aged male writer was a kid

[sidecar]

I actually think it's been pretty good this season (particularly the Charlie Don't Surf episode), but the feminists thing is still throwing me. I thought this week's episode was pretty good, and I'm thinking there's probably a comeuppance on the way for Veronica and her overt bitchiness. I really liked the very end, when Parker got in her face about helping the frat, and Veronica asked which she'd rather have--the person who did this to her nailed or just someone to nail for it?

Because you know...I think it would be pretty cliched and facile to place the fraternity as the source of the rapes, easily as cliched and facile as feminists have been treated thus far. I'm holding out hope that the show will turn the cliches on their ears a bit down the road. I did like how they handled the sorority, showing that they're not all bimbo airheads who pay for their friends.

[designermedusa]

SPOILERS for anyone that has not seen the 3rd season most recent episode.




I'm still watching VM, but I will say it has changed since the network is now the CW. The feminists are being showed in a really negative light, but so are the fratenity guys. They are just making both of them extreme stereotypes which is disappointing. I think they have made VM herself a little annoying as well, and agree the Weevil as a class project was tacky. I also thought the scenes with Wallace cheating on his one class was out of character. If they can't think of a good storyline for Wallace then I'd rather he not be on there, why drop the Jackie storyline?

I am interested in the rape storyline though, why would Claire not tell VM that the guy in the ATM photo was her boyfriend? I just hope they complete the season and the story, and don't just cancel the show.

[bunnyb]

that's disappointing . I love the class consciousness of VM in season one, it was one of the things that impressed me. Do you think it's due to the network change (i.e. the same that happened with Buffy)?

[maryjo]

Enjoy it while you can, bunny. I'm afraid that VM may be over for me.

(spoilers below)

Okay. What the hell were they doing having Veronica bring Weevil to class and show him off like her pet dog? It was bad enough that he's ended up being the school janitor... VM was always about going against race and class stereotypes, but this season they're just happoily playing into them; poor ineffectual Weevil who can't do anything but be put on display now his glory days of high school gang agency are over.

And I hate Veronica's attitude to college. She cared so much about getting there when she was in high school, but now she doesn't give a crap about anything except getting one over on her teachers? (using the internet to cheat on the class game her first day, bring Weevil in totally inappropriately as her 'audiovisual aid').

And there's so little going on – no decent overarching storyline with twists and turns and clues. The rape mystery is not keeping me engaged; come on, with that amount of information (the picture from the ATM) high school Veronica would have solved that in one episode! College is obviously not good for her little grey cells.

I think I may not even watch next week. It's getting painful.

And House is on in the same time slot...

[bunnyb]

*new VM obsessee alert*

I've watched Season 1 over 2 and a half days and season 2 is on it's way (come quickly, come quickly). This is my new favourite show: it has everything I love, a little bit Buffy, a little bit Nancy Drew and some very clever and witty dialogue. I love the theme song too (although I'm gathering from archives that it's been changed? skimmed as don't want to spoil seasons 2 and 3). I've seen a couple of eps of season 2 before and I agree that with one central mystery it's difficult for new viewers to tune in although it did encourage me to go and buy it on dvd.

I can't believe how much I am lusting over Logan. Mmmmm, nasty or nice he is fine but I love him when he's soppy and sweet, those eyes... I am a Weevil fan too. I did cry, however, at "Trip to the Dentist" where Veronica and Duncan are screaming at one another, it was emotional. sniff.

[vesicapisces]

OMG, chacha, I didn't even catch those associations. I am a bad Media Whore. (In my defense, I was at the movies and only came in for about the last 20 minutes of VM. Yeah, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.)

[chachaheels]

I thought the "near reunion" of Laura San Giacomo and Enrico Colantoni was a nice bookend to the Stars Hollow Logan/Jupiter Logan near connection. Cute, a little bit of a tease--but in the end, everyone goes back to their own shows.

[kittenb]

Is the rape story line going to be an all season thing? I, too, have been annoyed with way the feminist group has been portrayed. I feel like I am watching the "wimminists" from PCU (thanks to lunasol for referencing that. Hey, hey! Ho ho! This penis party's got to go! But seriously, they were so obnoxious last night! I get that they want to figure out who is to blame, but convicting a group who did not do that crime will not help.

I really liked Logan's story last night. I think I need to watch more of the first two seasons to figure out why everyone is so in love with him as I just want to put him on a suicide watch. Although, I will admit that seeing him and Matt Czuchery all half naked a wet did give me a little heart flutter. Would make a great screen saver.

I would put Keith (?) Mars (Veronica's dad, if that is not the right name) on my weird crush list, but I don't think its weird.

[chachaheels]

I got the shoes comment--they were high heeled (denoting power), but they were not meant to be attractive. Nothing all that feminine about a penny loafer--they're meant to be sexless shoes no matter what you do to them. That, accompanied with the voice over about how a pant-suit says "Nothing happening here. Move along," might have been sexist, or it might have been an attempt to illustrate VM's detailed steps towards self-protection before going into a house full of what could be conspiratorial rapists. It's standard to catalogue the warrior's armour before she goes into the lion's den, isn't it?

I'm not sure if they're playing into the college stereotypes (complete with the anti-feminism to the Nth degree) or if they're building them up to explode them all up at some point.

[maryjo]

I accidentally looked at this thread before VM aired in my time zone, and when I saw the comment about the Women's Studies shoes I expected her to be wearing Birkenstocks or something. Made absolutely no sense with the shoes she was wearing.

I'm watching Season 2 on DVD right now, and it's so much better than this season. So much more nuanced and complex. I agree completely that the portrayal of the feminists is just not getting any better; though I did really enjoy the Logan storyline in this episode.

I wonder if one reason this season isn't working so well is that the show has always been about Veronica's interaction with the social environment around her (as opposed to just with a group of friends, as so many teen shows basically are). High school is a microcosm that everyone's familiar with, that is (to use some English-major jargon) overdetermined by the million million movies and shows that are based in American high schools. I know all the tropes like the back of my hand and I didn't go to a high school that was anything like that. College is a common setting too, sure, but it's not as overly used as high school is, doesn't have as many cliches for the VM writers to mess with. And it's a less socially diverse environment, there are entry requirements, students are all there for more or less the same reason. So even though you would think that it might be easier to write a less cliched script for a college setting rather than a high school, since they don't have so much to react against, perhaps the writers are less on their guard?

Hope that made some kind of sense...

[mirabella]

Favorite line: "Chip, Dick, faceless Star Trek crew members."

However, I was sort of pissed when Keith said to Veronica, regarding her shoes " Changed your major to women's studies?" Um...why? Did I totally not get it, or was that sexist and ignorant? (Ok, just read lunasol's comment which must have been posted while I was typing mine...sorry.)

[lunasol]

OK, so after this episode I am officially Very Very Worried about the explicitly anti-feminist tone of this season so far. The feminists have been portrayed in such a cardboard cutout way. Look, here are the Angry Women of Color and Token Blonde Sorrority-Looking Women With Them. Look how they can't take a joke! Look how mean they are to Veronica! Look how they want to blame white men for all their problems!

And what was up with Keith's comment about Veronica's shoes and taking women's studies classes? That didn't even make any sense. I mean, it's not like she was wearing Tevas.

I guess they're trying to make a comment on the whole Duke rape case, but wouldn't such a comment be better made with more subtlety? And maybe they're trying to make a comment on campus PC culture, which is so 1990's (Didn't they see PCU or Higher Learning?).

Come to think of it, the frat boys are sort of ridiculously cardboard, too. The reason VM was so good the first two seasons was that they alsways shied away from resting on easy stereotypes and they seem to be abandoning that now.

I'll still watch, though. For a while.

[txplumwine]

Oh YAY!!! I saw the thread title on the front page and had to jump right in. I've been squeeing with Sidecar about VM for some time now...have been a hardcore fan since the pilot.

I don't know how much posting I'll do, but you'll see me around, for sure. As for weighing in, I sort of like the general direction (if not all the writing and the last episode); love Piz as long as he's hopelessly pining; squeed for Mac in the credits; squeed when Weevil showed up; am a total LoVe 'shipper and not ashamed of it.

I always read the recaps on Television Without Pity, and I think Couch Baron usually has things right on: he differentiates between "VMVO" (Veronica Mars voice-over), when Veronica narrates in her own style, and "NVMVO," when it's either so contrived or so expository, it had to be inserted/demanded by the Network. Similarly, I prefer to believe that a lot of the clunky writing is due to network interference. I thought the S3 premiere was pretty sharp; don't remember the line offhand, but something V snarked made me pipe up with "THERE'S my girl!", which GameBoy found hilarious.

Also: I have had sex dreams about Jason Dohring (Logan). Lord. God. SO. HOT.

[sidecar]

The way feminists have been portrayed is really unfortunate. It's very surprising to me, too, because Rob Thomas has a certain subtlety and nuance that's nearly entirely lacking here. The way he handled the sorority stuff was a good example--he didn't make them evil or over-the-top.

I loved Weevil's Mars Investigations outfit. Plaid shirt and tie! So awesome.

I liked how they handled Logan and Veronica in this episode. Their relationship is going to be stormy, but I think it would be very dull if they broke up every three episodes, just as dull as keeping them together or keeping them apart. I agree with you, maryjo--it's good that Veronica is learning lessons. And the failings she's had have tended to come when she's made judgements of others that weren't fair while giving herself a pass she maybe didn't deserve.

I think it's time for Keith's lawyer friend to show up. Cliff is the best.

[maryjo]

*delurks into the thread*

I really liked the way they dealt with Mac and Veronica's assumptions leading to complicity in the promiscuous girl being raped. But in yesterday's episode I wasn't too happy with the depiction of the feminist women of color as strident, humorless, and overbearing, or with the way Veronica distanced herself from their politics. I'm hoping that the next episode or two will develop a more nuanced portrayal, but I'm not quite holding my breath.

This season so far seems to be all about Veronica failing: not being as in-control or knowledgeable outside the familiar world of Neptune High, and having to come to terms with her fallibility. It's interesting.

I continue to find Logan disturbingly hot. I haven't watched the second season yet (I've borrowed it from a friend on DVD, but I also borrowed season two of House and I still have four episodes to go on that one) but I'm looking forward to some angst-ridden!Logan on there. I found Weevil hot in season one, but without his motorcycle he's less enticing.

I also adore Mac, of course.