[missjoy]

I'm not trying to be negative here - but being at seperate colleges is very, very hard on a relationship. Once again, I know many people work this out - but I know when I went to college I suddenly felt like I wanted to be out with friends and meeting new people. I think this is why Thanksgiving weekend is so often referred to as the "turkey dump" when people break up with their mate that they were with at home.

Just to be on the safe side -ask yourself if you would be angry if you had sex and then broke up... perhaps it is best to wait. You also don't want to have sex just to try to ensure that you don't break up - there may be some of those feelings mixed in as well.

Once again, I don't know you or your relationship - I know some that have been strong through being apart - but just a small caution.

On another note, for my first time we were both virgins too - and it didn't quite "work" the first couple times. I think I was too nervous about it hurting, and then that was worse... in the end we had a relaxing night with a few drinks and it just worked. Try not deciding that it will happen at a certain time and just relax and do other things, and if it leads to sex - all the better (if you are sure you want to).

[starkitty]

Argh...I ddon't think I'm even looking for actual advice right now, more just hoping my relationship doesn't really drive me into to loony bin, a la the title of this topic.

Part A: My boyfriend of a year and some change and I decided to start having sex about a month ago. Unfortunately, no one informed certain parts of the anatomy about this, and so we haven't actually managed to do so, which is driving me slightly insane right now. (We're both virgins and just graduated high school. Can you tell?)

This led to...Part B: This whole not-actually-having-sex and being all sympathetic/whatever thing led me to realize how much I love him...which is now scaring the hell out of me. Even though I'm positive I want to sleep with him, I also ideally only want to sleep with one guy, ever, so this is all rather confusing. I also know that I want to marry him someday, and while that isn't an impossibility, it's not something that happens frequently.

Maybe I'm panicking because we're about to go away to different colleges, even though they aren't really all that far away from each other. Or maybe I just need to get laid really badly. Hah.

*le sigh*

[LoveMyPugs]

I know I'm lucky. I get frustrated with my friends who break up with someone after one fight. That drives me crazy. If Mr. Pug and I broke up after our first fight we wouldn't have lasted a week. We take it one fight at a time. I know others aren't as lucky as me to have found "the one" so young. I feel bad for people who are much older and still haven't found someone they can really connect to. That has to be hard. If I were single and a friend thought they knew someone who would be perfect for me then I'd give it a try. What's the worst that could happen? It doesn't work out and you move on and try someone new right?

[p_176]

LMP -
i like your point about not having gone through lots of the BS that single people have gone through ['cause you have been with mr. pug the whole time].

a [asian] friend of mine recently made the comment that in the US, people are on their own to find their own mates - which means that they don't generally get the feedback or support from parents/families. and that may be why there are so many dysfunctional relationships.

i'm not an advocate of arranged marriages but if someone knows you really well and can recommend someone that might make the search easier, i'm all for that.

[grenadine]

i agree! and i did not "miss out" by those people's definition, but i don't think my years of changing relationships like underwear were in any way essential to me.
an old friend of mine came over last night. he, is, in his own words, "proud to say i was a notorious slut." now he's splitting from his wife and talking about how he doesn't want to go back to that life because it's meaningless.
well, duh! so you see, even the most inveterate gadflies figure out eventually that all those experiences aren't what make life interesting.

[starkitty]

wow pugs! i totally do not think you missed out. i think that is great!

*delurks*

Seconded. That's wonderful, really. I'm 17, and I just pray that I'll be able to stay with my current boyfriend that long, although it's something I usually try not to admit to myself.

*relurks*

[hellotampon]

Whenever I tell people this they say that I "missed out" on so many experiences but I disagree. I think I missed out on a lot of bullshit that other people have to put up with.

You have a point there. I have girlfriends that have put up with a lot of crap from shitty guys who in retrospect, were not even worth it. Meanwhile I am amazed at how healthy my relationship is, especially given how dysfunctional my family is (his is not). I guess I just have to realize that being in a relationship isn't the *wrong* thing for me to be doing. For the most part, I'm glad to be moving in.

[shinyx3]

wow pugs! i totally do not think you missed out. i think that is great!

[LoveMyPugs]

honestly, dating and being single and one night stands in my opinion are over rated.

Amen! I couldn't agree more. One of the things that always cracks me up about my "single" friends is that when they become single they are so happy to be single and then in three months they want to be in a relationship again.

I must say in my opinion that practically living together and living together are two different worlds. I felt the same way but when you are actually living together and around one another all the time it's really different. Not bad just different. Mr. Pug and I lived together in an apartment for two years then we moved into his mom's house for two years and then into our own house and I can tell you each experience was different, had it's pros and cons and both took adjusting on both our parts.

I don't think 22 is that young to be moving in together. I moved out with Mr. Pug when I was 19 and I've been living with him ever since. As far as not getting enough life experience, I met Mr. Pug when I was 14 and he was 16 and we've been together ever since. Whenever I tell people this they say that I "missed out" on so many experiences but I disagree. I think I missed out on a lot of bullshit that other people have to put up with. I'm proud that I've worked so hard and been able to maintain this relationship through thick and thin.

[shinyx3]

very seldom do we not have to give something up to have something else we want. is not experienceing other relationships and sex with other men and just generally being single important enough to you to make you unhappy in this relationship? it sounds like you really love him. it may be worth it to have him and let the rest of it go. honestly, dating and being single and one night stands in my opinion are over rated.

[hellotampon]

I'm probably moving in with my boyfriend in a couple weeks. We've been together for 3 years and I practically live there already, so it probably won't be terribly different. Yesterday he he made some passing comment about how we could have more sex now and I freaked out a little. I'm not sure why. I guess I'm scared of making a bigger committment. I'm 22 and have only had one other serious boyfriend and it obviously wasn't like this since I was 18 at the time. I'm so happy in this relationship; the one thing that has ever bothered me is that I feel like I'm too young and didn't get enough life experience before this happened. So I think his comment just seemed so permanent. It must be normal to feel a little freaked out though, right?

[LoveMyPugs]

grenadine - although I think "not being able to cook is just gross life incompetence" is a bit harsh I do agree with you 100%. I think that some cook great food and some cook terrible food but cooking great dishes comes from practice, time and patience. EVERYONE should be able to cook. Now am I saying that everyone should be able to prepare a thanksgiving dinner to perfection the first time? NO! That takes years to learn. My mom can cook but her food isn’t great. She still follows recipes step by step. She doesn’t “enjoy” cooking so she doesn’t commit recipes or techniques to memory, which is fine. I on the other hand love to cook and rarely follow a recipe step by step. I watch food network all the time. I can bake and make many great dishes, however, I don’t cook breakfast or grill very well. I can admit it. Mr. Pug usually is the breakfast chef and the griller. Getting all the food to be ready at the same time is also a challenge at times. But come the fuck on, cooking is cooking. Whether it's baked manicotti or boxed Mac & cheese.

I have a friend who just recently got married and bought a house. She swears she "can't" cook. So they spend outrageous amounts of money eating out every night and when they run out of money they eat at her mom's house all the time. I think this is childish and that she is spoiled. Mr. Pug agrees. It's not brain surgery. Go buy a Betty Crocker Red Book for beginners and fucking learn. My mom didn't teach me to cook. I think the only thing she ever taught me was how to make scrambled eggs, which I don't even make the way she taught me anymore. It's really not that hard and I think people who waste money that they need for their mortgage or diapers for their daughter should go grocery shopping, cook and eat at home together as a family. If I were single I might eat out a lot more but that's only because I wouldn't want to have all the leftovers from preparing food for one, which I find to be kind of difficult. It's only cooking for Christ's sake.

Oh, and that Katie Roiphe chick is crazy. I just looked her up because I don't know anything about her. Her stance on date rape is psychotic. It's scary the people who are in this world.

Oh, sorry for the rant about cooking. Also, this friend of mine I was talking about who “can’t” cook, whenever I tell her that I had my family down and I made this big dinner for everyone she looks at me like I’m betraying women everywhere. WHY? I’m not a good feminist because I like to cook? Mr. Pug is great at sewing. He took a home ec. class in high school and can patch a hole in a dog toy or sew on a button better then I ever could. Does this make him less manly? I don’t even know how to turn a sewing machine on for the love of God.

Ok, I’m ranting again. Sorry. I’m out.

[grenadine]

*delurking*
katie roiphe is a no-talent ass clown riding to fame on her mother's coattails and a fairly accurate marketing awareness of how sex sells.

my mister and i have a fairly traditional division of labour in that i do more cooking and cleaning and he does garbage, recycling, and more yardwork (although i also do yardwork). however, i don't mind because i'm the one delegating it. i know how to cook and clean and he doesn't, so he gets the grunt work more often (and the dishes at night, usually). the thing i DO mind is that i am the one who's mentally holding everything together -- who has a holistic sense of whether we desperately need groceries or diapers or what our toddler's going to eat for dinner -- and he is usually clueless, but that's to be expected because i'm the alpha. (and he doesn't work; i do; he's in school, fwiw).


and i know what you mean, nickclick, about the "you're so lucky!" line from the parents. MY mom thinks i'm so lucky to have such a biddable (ahem!), tolerant, easygoing husband. what she doesn't realise is that he's not biddable, just realistic, and that i am still doing most of the work in that i am responsible for the mental and actual household organisation -- he just accepts my delegating, usually.

and i am disdainful of anyone who doesn't know how to cook. that's like not knowing how to wash your hair. my dad worked 80-100 hour weeks when we were kids, but he would make sunday breakfast and occasionally dinner (chinese food, yum) to give my mom a break -- and, i think, because he enjoyed it. not being able to cook is just gross life incompetence.

*relurking*

[nickclick]

my friend sent me Salon's review of Katie Roiphe's new book about historical marriages of literary types.

she's up to the usual....

"...in the preface to "Uncommon Arrangements" in which she writes about the "dreary debates about marriage" that can "be entirely summed up in the question of who has cleaned up the smattering of Legos scattered across the floor of the baby's room." Roiphe wonders, "Why should there be so much fury attached to the most insignificant drudgeries of domestic life? ... Why when women have so many choices, are we still as angry as gloved suffragettes hurling bricks through windows? What unmitigated bliss, one does wonder, were we expecting?"

Here still is Roiphe's seductively low-pitched murmur, a signal tuned precisely for the ears of men who are sick of being hassled about the fucking Legos already. "This endless conversation about who is doing what in terms of house responsibilities and all that," said Roiphe wearily. "To me it goes back to that great Joan Didion essay: We are mired in the trivial."

But, I replied, citing Linda Hirshman's "Get to Work," which argued that the division of domestic labor is precisely where feminism has failed, we worry about the Legos because the person to whom it falls to pick them up (or to cook, clean, do the laundry and childcare) is the person who has less freedom to make money and live an independent life. And that person is often a she.

"How lucky we are that that should be our biggest issue," deadpanned Roiphe. "You'll find that it actually doesn't take that long to pick up the Legos. What really takes a long time is the three hours of rage and resentment about it."


i don't agree with her, as usual. "trivial" things add up. and they can be tiny examples of bigger issues. what if we said, oh we only make a few less cents than men, no big deal.....

[greenbean]

Thats funny, my dad has always been incharge of the kitchen and cooking dinner, and now that I think about it I tend to be very resentful of men who don't know how to cook,..like I'm thinking, "what? but thats your JOB!". I used to always get so frustrated with my ex for always getting take-out when i went over. Go figure the next guy I dated after him was a gormet chef!

ETA: Probably cuz I had this convo on the brain, I asked my boss about her husband's family, and turns out his parents died when he was a kid and his older sister raised him. Thought that was interesting and probably why hes comfortable in taking care of all the household chores.

[LoveMyPugs]

I feel ya nickclick! I know that Mr. Pug and I really do split most stuff up but it bothers me that I do the "girly" stuff like cooking and cleaning. However, when I think about cutting the grass or taking out the trash I'm like, "I'm not doing that. That's man work." But, when it comes to the dishes and laundry I'm like, "Why can't you do some once in a while?" I'm totally two faced about it I know. It's the feminist chip like you said.

My mom bitches that my dad pays a kid in the neighborhood to cut the grass now and yet she is still doing all the laundry and general cleaning. I tell her all the time, "Why don't you just pay someone to come and do the cleaning for you?" She sure as hell can afford it but I think she'd rather just bitch about it and make herself look more hardworking then my dad.

My mom hasn't washed a dish in years because my dad has assumed all responsibility of the kitchen. Most of the time he cooks the meals and he cleans up afterwards. My sister who is 19 doesn't even do dishes.

I guess SOMETIMES and I mean just SOMETIMES I don't appreciate Mr. Pug like I should but on the other hand he doesn't always appreciate me either so I gues we are even and both have to work a little harder.

Sometimes it sucks being grown up and having responsibility. Yuck!!!

[nickclick]

i guess i'm derailing the topic a bit, sorry. of course i do and will help my parents with whatever i can, and if that's what my dad will need, that's what i'll do.

but i grew up seeing my mom always doing the boring stuff, housework, paperwork, etc. so yeah, it is always in the back of my mind when me and mr.nick are splitting chores, like am i doing more? or am i doing the 'girly' work?

my mom thinks i'm soooo lucky because mr.nick does most of the cooking. not like he's just doing his share, but like he's going above and beyond or something. she would never say to a guy "wow, your girlfriend cooks?? you're lucky!"

[LoveMyPugs]

nickclick - that is a messy situation. I really can't even think of any good advice to offer. Your dad should learn to at least help with the laundry. My grandfather, grandmother and my mom all went through the same situation. When my grandmother was alive she always handled the money. When she died my grandfather just didn't want to learn I guess because he never had to do it and so he was afraid to try it (can't teach and old dog new tricks kind of thing). My mom ended up having herself put on the account and handling all of my grandfather’s finances. She complained about it all the time but after he died she missed him coming over to have her write a check for him. That time she spent sitting at the dinning room table with him helping him pay his bills and all was time they spent together whether my mom was working or not she missed the time alone with him. However, she isn't having any of that with my dad and us girls. My dad knows how to do everything he needs to know to take care of himself when he gets old and if my mom passes first so all we have to do is just visit to spend time with him and not worry about "taking care" of him. Maybe that little personal insight from my family will help ease your mind a little... or not

[nickclick]

pugs, glad things are going better at home. i often have that feminist chip on my shoulder too. but that's okay. keeping everything in check. good to make sure he knows you know that this is temporary because of your work situations, and not a boy/girl rest of your lives thing.

my dad recently retired (my mom did about 10 years ago) and all he does is go fishing, come home, throw his dirty clothes down in the basement, and eat the dinner my mom cooked. my mom cooks all meals, does all laundry, cleans the house, does lawn work, pays all bills, evvvvvvverything.... when he commuted and worked construction, i can see why my mom, home all day, took care of the house. but now the pattern's been established. and my mom complains complains complains. while my dad should of course do his share, my mom should have not allowed him to be so useless for so long. i mean, the man can operate heavy machinery, but is lost when trying to heat up a meal in the microwave! of course he's from another generation, and was born in italy, so there's that whole culture of momma's boys. and my mom's from that generation too, but didn't she see this coming????

i'm an oly child, and i'm honestly afraid if my mom dies first, i'll be my dad's babysitter, and not just because he may be sick or something. just because he's a man used to women taking care of his every need.

[LoveMyPugs]

My dishwasher doesn't really work all that well. It washes but doesn't dry so everything must be towel dried when it's done running which drives me crazy. So really we use our dishwasher as a big strainer for the dishes to drip dry in. So I hand wash most of my dishes except when I have a big party I run the damn thing instead of hand washing everything. The last week I've been trying to wash whatever dishes are in the sink first thing in the morning before I do anything else. If I fill up the dishwasher with clean dishes that need to drip dry and if there are still more to do then they wait till the next day or later that night if I have time to get to them when I get home from class. Today, however, I have a ton of homework to do so I'm skipping them till after I get my homework done. I think homework is more important RIGHT?!?! Mr. Pug hasn't said a word and even washed up the few that I didn't get to the other day. Last night at 10:30 p.m. before he came up to bed I asked him if he'd mind running out to my car and getting my school books so I could start my homework ASAP in the morning. He moaned real loud and said, "Jesus Christ woman do I have to do everything around here?" I yelled back to forget it that I'd grab them in the morning and not to bother. What was funny was that he didn't even hear me because he already had the keys and was on his way to the car for me. He was just being a dick to get a rise out of me. He's such an ass sometimes. I told him I was going to check bust right quick and he said, "No you're not!" and took me by the hand and cuddled with me in bed until we both feel asleep. He was very sweet last night. Glad things are back to normal in my house. I hate when we fight. It makes everything so uneasy and tense and neither of us is happy for a few days.

(((((committed busties)))))