The Lounge Guidelines Help Search Members Calendar Blogs

Welcome Guest [ Log In | Register ] ]

7 Pages V  « < 4 5 6 7 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> I'm More Feminist Than You Are! Or Am I?, What does it mean to be a feminist?
roseviolet
post Nov 18 2007, 01:25 PM
Post #101


Pacifism kicks ass!
***
Posts: 3,064


Grandine, you should post that in the old "Should I take his last name" thread. It deserves to be brought out of the mothballs. smile.gif
http://www.bust.com/lounge/index.php?showtopic=40038
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dj-bizmonkey
post Nov 18 2007, 01:06 PM
Post #102


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 431
From: the depths of my soul


i like that the response ended on the notion of choice. i think it's at the core of the feminist movement: having the option to choose the life you want to lead as opposed to having it laid out for you by society with no wiggle room. whatever choice a woman makes, other women should respect it. period. although i liked the notion of having the opportunity to explain to your children why you had a different name than their father because i feel that it would illustrate the freedom that women have now, i don't find it to be un-feminist to take your husband's name. in fact, i know a few couples where exactly the reverse has occurred, a man taking his wife's name, which i think is so amazing and shows how far we (both men and women) have come. as for myself, as a woman in academia, it is crucial to retain your given name especially if you have published any articles prior to getting married. it makes it easier for people to recognize your body of work. that being said, i also know a lot of women in the sciences who have chosen to hyphenate. this is what i think i may opt for when and if i get married. my friend (who is also a phd student) and i play a game, going through all of our ex's, trying to see which name would be easiest to hyphenate. i especially like the synthesis of my current bf's and mine name, which shortened would make me Dr. Shag. i get a kick out of thinking students calling me that.


--------------------
"To lose everything at the edge of such a glorious eternity is far sweeter than to win by plodding through a cautious, painless, and featureless life."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
grenadine
post Nov 17 2007, 12:33 PM
Post #103


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 451


delurking to say that, speaking of feminist choices, i thought this response by salon advice columnist cary tennis was right on. it perfectly articulates why the decision to keep your name is still an important one, and is the perfect response to my MIL's assertion that, "when i got married (in 1978), some people were surprised that i would take my husband's name, but i was fine with it!" (a statement that annoyed me because it implied that those people had a problem.)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
erinjane
post Nov 2 2007, 02:23 PM
Post #104


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 1,301
From: Winnipeg


I'm glad I'm not the only one. I just hate how people will preach one thing (women shouldn't be pitted against eachother) and totally practice another (I'm gonna talk behind your back and be an asshole to your face).

It seems like most of the jerks have vacated from taking part in the centre this year anyways, but the core group we've got going now is full of positive women.


--------------------
I Could Tell You Stories That Would Make Your Ears Curl
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nickclick
post Nov 2 2007, 12:53 PM
Post #105


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 2,134
From: jersey


lanie, that site is totally nuts. of course god is their excuse for everything. what are they so afraid of? and their links to 'articles' for proof are to other crazys' blogs! i can only look at it for a minute at a time because i don't want to be this angry on a friday afternoon.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
laniethezany
post Nov 2 2007, 12:32 PM
Post #106


BUSTie
**
Posts: 69
From: K3



Anyone who thinks that just by virtue of being female one is a feminist should check out these women.

prophecy - I agree with you 100% that not all choices are feminist. I was speaking solely about the issue of reproductive choice when I was talking about it being a "two-sided coin" (so to speak). I just think it's somewhat false to say you're pro-choice and think that as long as abortion remains legal, the war has been won.

Some of the most sexist people I know are women (and not sexist where they think women are superior). My mom bought the whole "man is the head of the household" bit hook, line and sinker. Her actions, however, said something different. She was going back to school to get her master's degree when I was little so my dad was the primary evening caregiver, did all the laundry and dishes, etc. She had more education and made more money. Same for her mother. Then she seems all surprised that she raised daughters who turned out to be feminists.

As for Hillary, I don't see her as wanting to even the playing field for women in general. I see her as trying to get her own seat at the good ol' (rich, white) boy's table. Her stance on the war is enough to make me not vote for her all on its own, but I have plenty of other reasons, too.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
faerietails2
post Nov 2 2007, 11:22 AM
Post #107


donut-lovin' heathen
***
Posts: 713
From: Suburban Hell


i'm pretty sure i've heard hillary identify as a feminist before. and she is involved with a lot of feminist-oriented organizations, like emily's list... *shrug*

erin, that's wack. and as someone else said, doesn't sound very feminist to me!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nickclick
post Nov 2 2007, 07:26 AM
Post #108


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 2,134
From: jersey


kitten, you're smart!

i did a minimal google search to see if hillary identifies as a feminist in any article, but no luck. there seems to be a lot of blogs with opinions on the matter though, from like 'ohmygod, will people think i'm a *GASP* feminist if i vote for her?' to 'she's our feminist hero.' but anyway,

she's playing the game to get where she wants, and to where we need a woman most. (my ideal vote's not necessarily for HER, but...) i think we can count her as a 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em' feminist, even though she may be validating the old-boys club by emulating its members at first, her mere presence as the president will chip away at it, and give her a chance (hopefully) to make change. that's our best strategy right now.

kitten, i agree that voters are mostly afraid of any candidate who's not an expert politician or who does anything differently than the norm, especially if she has boobs. in fact, i always thought our first female pres would be a republican, to kind of soften the blow; y'know, ease us into the idea.

i have to admit i like that she's proving you don't need testosterone to be balls-y! (or is bill providing his?)

erin, i think the behavior you described is not only anti-feminst, but just plain counter-productive.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kittenb
post Nov 2 2007, 06:39 AM
Post #109


There is nothing ironic about Show Choir!
***
Posts: 3,261
From: Chicago


You all are so smart. I am so glad that I started this thread. I am getting a lot of stuff to think about so thank you!

prophecy_grrl - I never really thought that all through about Clinton and how that would leave us with 20 years of two families running one country. Wow. As for her getting the job the way that the men do,is there any other way? I don't think the first woman will get the presidency by being that much different than the men. The system is just too constrictive and regimented. I just know that we need something different in office than what we have seen before.
Has anyone ever asked Clinton if she is a feminist? What was her answer?

QUOTE
I DO think that anyone who gets involved in activism on behalf of a group they don't belong to needs to tread lightly.
Very well put. Thank you.

And a quick thank to the Lounge Lady or whomever for fixing the spelling. I love you!



--------------------
In times of destruction, create something.
MHK
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
prophecy_grrl
post Nov 1 2007, 04:25 PM
Post #110


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 201
From: Chicago, Illinois


thanks for starting this thread kitten - I sometimes miss these straight-forward political discussions.

I've been thinking about this question a lot lately, for a variety of reasons. One being Hillary Clinton looking like she'll win in 2008 (and doing it just like all the white men before her - using a name legacy, dirty money, and pandering-to-the-middle politics). I am disgusted by the fact that for the last 20 years (potentially adding up to another 8 if Clinton wins) there has been a Bush or Clinton in office. Her winning next year will be seen as a great achievement for women. Another is the fact that as a woman approaching 30 and childless, I'm realizing that there are still very few acceptable ways to "be a woman" in our culture, as if rejecting motherhood (or least postponing it indefinitely) makes you less female. I think we are still so pinned to these archetypal roles in ways that men just aren't. Anything more complex or nuanced than "wife" "mother" "career woman" and you have to constantly explain yourself to people.

Of course political, economic, and social equality, and freedom from violence are essential goals of feminism and still works in progress. I really don't believe that all women are feminists just by virtue of being female (I've had this argument about Condoleezza Rice, but never Ann Coulter - seriously?), or that feminism should exclude men (I DO think that anyone who gets involved in activism on behalf of a group they don't belong to needs to tread lightly). Having the legal support to be free to make choices is essential, but I don't believe the idea that feminism is just about choice. In other words, women being able to do "what they want" is the same thing as equality, i.e. "being subservient to my husband makes me happy and it's my choice therefore it's feminist."

I'm not saying that feminists can't want to be stay at home moms, etc. but for me Feminism is really about being critical and thinking about and examining the world around you and the choices you make. Patriarchy is part of all of our subconsciouses and you actually have to work - consciously - to combat it (men too!). Our decisions, needs, and desires do not exist in a vacuum; they are a product of our experiences and the culture we live in. To be a Feminist is always question authority and look deeper, never take anything at face value - including our "choices."

The personal IS political.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
erinjane
post Nov 1 2007, 02:14 PM
Post #111


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 1,301
From: Winnipeg


We're having this semi-issue at my university womyn's centre. We work as a collective, but the university students association did the hiring for our new coordinator this year. The person they hired has never been part of the collective in the past and doesn't identify as feminist. There was a lot of outrage within the collective because of this decision, but we've worked through it with the students association and will be more involved next year in the hiring.

I admit, I don't like a lot of the new coordinators methods, and she's been really resistant to working as a collective group and understanding that we had policies and a manifesto already made up so she can't just come in and change things. In the last month things have been better, but she'll still do things I don't agree with or say things that irk me, but I get along with her well enough and am willing to have a dialogue with her about why certain things bother me.

The majority of the collective has been working to help her out and be friendly with her, but there's been some friction with old members. This is what bugs me far more than the new coordinator not being great. A few of the old members are sarcastic, rude, and mean straight to her face. I can understand saying something to her in a constructive way or starting a dialogue, but they're flat out horrible to her. I find this really outrageous, especially because one of the women who is being horrible has been in classes with me for the past 4 years and knows all the theory and knows that society pits women against each other. This kind of behaviour strikes me as completely un-feminist and it's really pissing me off. I don't like some stuff new coordinator does either, but I'm willing to work with her and tell her what I think instead of being a complete jerk.

Thoughts?


--------------------
I Could Tell You Stories That Would Make Your Ears Curl
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
roseviolet
post Oct 31 2007, 11:38 AM
Post #112


Pacifism kicks ass!
***
Posts: 3,064


Yet again, Lanie and NickClick have nailed it. smile.gif

Being pro-choice means just what it says ... that you believe in the right to choose. You can decide that you never want to have an abortion. That's fine. That's your choice. And as long as you believe that others have the same right to make their own decisions, then you, too, are pro-choice.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
laniethezany
post Oct 31 2007, 08:41 AM
Post #113


BUSTie
**
Posts: 69
From: K3



I agree nickclick - there is a Grand Canyon of difference between being pro-choice and pro-abortion.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nickclick
post Oct 31 2007, 08:25 AM
Post #114


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 2,134
From: jersey


QUOTE(pixiedust @ Oct 31 2007, 12:32 AM) *
Great post faierietales! I think you nailed how I am feeling. I'm in that blurry area. I am not pro abortion, but I am not anti choice either.

i don't think i'm only speaking for myself when i say no feminist is pro-abortion. feminists are pro- good sex education, pro- access to birth control, and as lanie says, pro- women's healthcare and pro- inexpensive childcare, . believe me, i'd be more than happy if no woman ever had to choose an abortion because she could easily plan for, pay for and care for a healthy child.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
laniethezany
post Oct 30 2007, 10:28 PM
Post #115


BUSTie
**
Posts: 69
From: K3



To me, part of being pro-choice means working to ensure that women really can make a choice. Meaning working to end economic oppression, so that money doesn't have to be an issue in a woman's choice when faced with an unplanned pregnancy. Because I truly believe that if money were not a problem, or if healthcare and childcare were accessible to everyone regardless of income, a lot of women would make different choices. I don't blame women for taking these factors into consideration - they are valid considerations in our society. But I think that's sad.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pixiedust
post Oct 30 2007, 10:15 PM
Post #116


Tink's Red headed Step Sis
***
Posts: 1,810
From: oklahoma


Great post faierietales! I think you nailed how I am feeling. I'm in that blurry area. I am not pro abortion, but I am not anti choice either.


--------------------
~May the Fleas of one thousand camels infest the crotch of any person who messes up your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch!~
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
faerietails2
post Oct 30 2007, 03:45 PM
Post #117


donut-lovin' heathen
***
Posts: 713
From: Suburban Hell


When you all think of "pro-life," are you conflating that with "anti-choice"? Much as I hate to admit it, after I read Contested Lives, I started to see a difference between the two.

I'm staunchly pro-choice and also think that being anti-choice is being anti-feminist, but now I kind of think there's a fine line between being pro-life and anti-choice. Elisabeth Hasselbeck et al? Anti-choice psycho (and someone I would NEVER call a feminist). A woman who actually does real work with women in crisis in programs before and after their pregnancies (and won't pull all the hellfire and brimstone bullshit if a woman decides to go ahead with an abortion)/agrees to disagree?....that's where the line kind of starts to blur for me.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
designermedusa
post Oct 30 2007, 11:19 AM
Post #118


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 772
From: Florida


I agree that men can be feminists, and Rose I agree it's about mutual respect. If someone makes a nasty comment about a different race or a different sexual orientation from my own I still get offended. You don't have to have directly experienced something to understand how it would feel.

About being pro-choice or anti-choice, it's straight forward to me, if a person is politically anti-choice then they could never be a feminist in my eyes. If a person wants the government to control a woman's body that is not making women equal. If a person is against abortion on a personal level, but supports a woman's right to choose then I believe they could be considered a feminist. The pro-choice movement is about individual choices.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
girlygirlgag
post Oct 30 2007, 11:15 AM
Post #119


Super BadAss
***
Posts: 705
From: Your mom's house.


QUOTE(kittenb @ Oct 30 2007, 04:25 PM) *
\ but I don't know if in their hearts they will ever be 100% feminist.

Of course part of this discussion came from the fact that I don't know what 100% feminist looks like.



Who does? I think it can mbe argued that a lot of women may never be 100% feminist in their heart of hearts, depending on which definition of feminism one is using.

I agree that Pro-Life is not feminist. The choice movement is based on CHOICE, it is not pro or against abortion. It is for a woman to have control over her body and life.

(gawd, now I am imagining some pie faced, bingo player sneering, "what about the baby's choice" and I want to rub mud in their face.)




--------------------
Constantly on.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
roseviolet
post Oct 30 2007, 10:32 AM
Post #120


Pacifism kicks ass!
***
Posts: 3,064


NickClick nailed it - you don't have to have the same personal experiences in order to have the same political goals. You don't have to be oppressed in order to fight oppression. It's about sympathy and empathy and mutual respect. None of us are exactly the same. None of us are living the exact same lives & living the exact same experiences. But we can communicate and learn and sympathize and support one another.

Feminism is the belief in equality of the sexes. This goal can only be reached if men join the fight. Telling a man he cannot be a feminist reinforces the very stereotypes that feminism is against. For feminism to prevail, you have to stop thinking of all men as the enemy. Instead, they are potential recruits. We want feminism to become a common belief, held dear by a majority of the population, yes? Then why exclude 50% of the population from our ranks? It makes no sense to me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

7 Pages V  « < 4 5 6 7 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: October 25, 2014 - 02:23 PM