[neverending]

Here is something else I've found:

Researchers suggest that estrogen may resist infection by increasing the number of lactobacilli, the micro-organisms that fight infection by lowering the vaginal pH levels and preventing E. coli from adhering to vaginal cells. Taking oral estrogen does not seem to provide the same benefit as the topical forms, and in any case is proving to have some health risks.
WHY DON'T DOCTORS JUST GIVE ESTROGEN INSTEAD OF BIRTH CONTROL?I WOULD MUCH RATHER DO THIS INSTEAD BECAUSE I'VE BEEN MARRIED FOR SO LONG AND I WOULD LOVE CHILDREN.DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF ESTROGEN IS SAFE TO USE AND CAN I BUY IT ON THE INTERNET?

[klee]

I smoke but probably go through about a pack and a half a week...so not a ton. But, this is a good reason to quit.

I think the trick w/the hydrogen peroxide is to actually keep the stuff in there for a few minutes. The type of bacteria that likes to create havoc in our cooch does not like oxygen...which is what hydrogen peroxide provides and I used it straight from the bottle since that's 3%. So when I used the funnel, I used my feet on the sides of my tub to really prop up my hips almost straight up. Keeping the funnel in place will help the liquid stay inside. The first study had the women using h-p for a week.

I've heard other people say that this doesn't work and everyone is different. But, I feel like this might be more natural and apparently has shown to help balance some women's flora in clinical trails. And hydrogen peroxide has no side effects and this rests a little more easily on my mind - if it's working, which it is. But seriously, I'm kinda coming to terms with dealing with some sort of bv maintenance right after my period.

[Eralc Alegna]

Chachaheels - what would we do without you? I'm so glad you're here! How can I find a good herbalist though? I have no idea where to look and how to guage credibility. I'm definitely refusing the pill now though, I knew that s@#% wasn't right.
Oh yea, used to be a smoker. I've quit like 5 different times but for good at lent last year. besides the occasional drunkin indulgence. Once I read that smoking could be a factor in BV they were gone!
And I tried the hydrogen peroxide undilluted everyday for like a month and nothing... but I guess everyone is different. I could only find a 10ml syringe though and just let it run out, i didn't hold it in.
oh and chacha, i've been using the boric for about 3 weeks 2x a day and my symptoms have improved a bit but it is by no means gone. I should quit using it then? for how long?

* sorry, naturopath. Maybe i really should push myself to this raw food diet. Would it give me a chance of restoring ballance in my hormones and whatever else modern medicine has destroyed for me?

[autumnbreeze]

I've never been a smoker.

klee: Good article. I recently tried the hydrogen peroxide douche..it worked temporarily. I read some other articles about probiotics and BV. It seems that L. acidophilus alone may not be enough. Also, the good bacteria may be killed by stomach acid when taken orally and if it does make it through, it has a hard time colonizing and reproducing. So I'm thinking maybe I should increase intake of the probiotics. I wish there was a high-potency lactobacilli injection (or something of the sort) we could get from the doctor.

Contemporary Issues in Women's Health: The Rationale for Probiotics in Female Urogenital Healthcare

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1140735

[latinrican]

Pianogirl.... I used the Boric Acid once a day every other day for 2 weeks. I was a little scared to use it every day. My period came on and then the smell came back. I got back on it but used one capsule about every 3 to 4 days. My goal was just to try to use the least amount of BA capsules as possible. Im now using it once a week and hopefully can just get off of it indefinitely. Im on my period now so Im curious to see if the smell will come back.

Neverending....same area , huh? Well we need to build a coffee shop and name it "BV" and name all of our coffees after each medication everyone has tried ....lol. ***sigh*** (trying to add a lil humor) but thanks for the website...I will definitely chk it out.

Pympmama1.... I do not smoke and never have.

[pianogirl]

I do not smoke so I do not think somoking is the culprit for me.

\\


Klee do you add water to the hydrogen peroxide?

Also are you still using boric acid?

I started drinking kefir and taking a pill form of probiotics and am still on boric acid.

[pympmama1]

How many of you smoke... I keep seeing report about idividuals that smoke are more susceptiable to bv
I smoke... but even when I stopped smoking for a year ... it did not go away... I am curious ... how many on the board... have the same behavior.....which could be a contributing factor to our recurrences

[klee]

Okay- long post but check out this article here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

I've read a few articles from this site and it's been really interesting! Apparently this is basically what is wrong with all of us: "Our results showed that women with BV lack lactobacilli, especially hydrogen peroxide producing ones." Essentially healthy women have higher amounts of lactic acid and hydrogen peroxide producing lactobacilli. And smokers do an even worse job at generating this stuff. Apparently a really good strain of lactobacilli/lactic acid is found in molasses!

So I tried this out since I get the amine smell after my period - OFTEN. And I see that some doctors actually recommend some sort of wash after menses. Anyway, all is well right now. And hydrogen peroxide is cheap. I'm guessing a "vaginal irrigation" is a douche. I actually got in the shower and laid on my back propping my hips way up using my legs and used a little funnel and just held still for about 3 minutes. I chose 3 minutes after reading this here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...st_uids=8876361

It's really not that big of a pain in the ass considering other treatments and it's possible that some of us may need to do this monthly after our periods. What I'm hoping is that doing this and figuring out my probiotics will help me get my cooch in order and after a while won't have a monthly bv episode.

[neverending]

latinrican:I'm around the same area!;) Try clinical trials.gov or something like that and it should pull up everything in your area.

[chachaheels]

Boric acid should be used in 600g. suppositories, once or twice a day, for a maximum of 2 weeks. Then there should be a rest period--and you shouldn't have to use them again. They can minimize discomfort, but the ideal situation with boric acid suppositories is to use them under the supervision of a naturopath.

Again, using the boric acid for this limited time is a good start, but if you're still have the symptoms, find a naturopath who knows what he or she is doing to undertake your case. Conventional medical doctors don't know about alternatives such as the boric acid, botanical medicines, or nutritional supplements, so if you really want to know how to use these to your advantage, it pays to go to someone who is knowledgeable.

Pau D'arco is, in fact, a herbal drug and as such it should be used under the supervision of a trained professional who has studied the effects of that drug on the body and is trained in the use of herbal medicines. Therefore--see someone who is learned in herbal or botanical medicines for supervision while you use this drug, as you would any other drugs.

Herbal medicines of all kinds are never meant to be used indefinitely or without the supervision of an herbalist. MDs are not required to know about these drugs; neither are pharmacists or nurses, neither are clerks in health food stores. They're powerful medicines; they are not like conventional drugs that are supposed to be used by one and all forever. If you just want relief, use them cautiously until you find someone to work with who is trained; if you want to actually get better and stop suffering from this disease once and for all, you must work with a trained professional.

[pianogirl]

Hi Ladies,

I was wondering if the users of boric acid would share their regimen? I ask because I was on it 3 weeks straight and stopped because my period came and the smell was funny again after about 3 - 4 days of my period. Anyway I am back on the BA 2x starting in the morning and night (I was just doing it in the evenings the first time around).

It kills the smell and discharge but my period seems to have made it come back. I have concluded that the good bacteria is necessary, however now I wonder should be used in combination with the BA. The question now is what is the strongest course to enable the healthy bacteria to gain some strength or rebuild itself? Should we use both the BA (killing the bad bacteria) and something for good bacteria together vaginally?
I also started taking acidophilous by orally as of today.

Any ideas please?

I miss the days when I smelled like nothing (maintenance free)


Thanks
PG

[autumnbreeze]

autumnbreeze,

Where do you get the pau d'arco and how many days have you used it already?

latinrican: I bought it at a health food store. You can get tea bags, capsules, or the bark. I got the bark because most of the tea bags and capsules have additives. I did 1 douche, then drank 1 cup for 7 days. As I said before, I didn't have any adverse side effects. Personally, I don't think it can be any more harmful than Boric Acid--which you cannot drink or ingest or get on your skin. I think it acts like a "natural antibiotic" so you would need to follow up with the probiotics. Good luck.

[chachaheels]

There are a variety of probiotic preparations specially made for direct insertion in the vagina.
Your health food store should have at least one or two brands designed to be used for just this purpose. One brand in particular that comes to mind is "New Roots". The bottle comes with an inserter and just the capsules--you use one a day until the bottle runs out.

Of course it helps if you also take probiotic supplements, or eat a number of lacto-fermented foods which feature the probiotics and their enzymes naturally. Most of us don't, our dairy products are dead if not worse...and many of us don't have any access to lacto-fermented foods like kvasses, home made sauerkraut, raw milk butters, creams, and cheeses, or yogurts. So the supplementation is your next best bet.

Try to find probiotics to take orally with more than 12 billion live organisms if you're in an active infection. If not, a daily dose of any standard commercial product you'll find in your health food store will keep you in good shape on an ongoing basis.

The Birth control pill's real damage to the body in terms of cause for this illness isn't just a result of the artificially lowered estrogen level it creates, but the overall imbalance this kind of tampering creates to all organs and glands in the body. Every single gland which produces or reacts to any particular hormone anywhere in the body is affected by this imposed state, and each of those will respond in a desperate attempt to try to "balance things out" by producing other hormones/not producing those hormones/becoming insensitive and unresponsive to any particular hormone so much that other glands have to produce much more again. "Balance" in hormones is extremely difficult to restore once artificial hormones are used in any way in the body; the pill's particularly bad because people use it indefinitely, many women use it for many, many years. Most people don't stay on other hormones that length of time (things like cortisone, corticosteroids, prednisone/prednosilone). That imbalance can be a major reason for susceptibility to BV.

Pau D'arco is a tree bark (a botanical medicine) you can use as a tea or in capsule form. It's an effective anti-fungal. This should really be used under the supervision of an herbalist, and for a short period of time where your reactions can be monitored and its use adjusted.

[Eralc Alegna]

Hi Ladies,

I was wondering if anyone tried a strong Probiotics substance (oral) in combination with the boric acid. I am at work so I was unable to read this whole report but I found some interesting information on the web. I hope this helps some.

Thanks
PG
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1140735

That was written TWO FREAKING YEARS AGO and still nothing!?!?! I mean I'm beside myself that someone actually cares and is researching for us, but what the hell? all that proof and they're still throwing anti-biotics at us which are only compounding our problem. Develop a probiotic vaginal insert already and SAVE US.

And Neverending, interesting about the pill/low levels of estrogen thing. Maybe I'll refuse to take it now. I was always of the impression that the opposite occurred

[pianogirl]

Hi Ladies,

I was wondering if anyone tried a strong Probiotics substance (oral) in combination with the boric acid. I am at work so I was unable to read this whole report but I found some interesting information on the web. I hope this helps some.

Thanks
PG



http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1140735

[latinrican]

autumnbreeze,

Where do you get the pau d'arco and how many days have you used it already?

free spirit,

I totally agree with you on everything. I sometimes google to see if any dr's are doing those clinical research study groups for BV around ATL, GA because Im sooooooo willing to jump in and tell them "study me , study me" lol.... or If only a dr is willing to chk out this thread and figure something out for us.

[autumnbreeze]

"What the hell is pau d'arco? I'm interested in trying anything."

Eralc Alegna: Pau D'arco is considered an herb. It is the inner bark of a tree found in South America. People there use it for yeast infections, some STD's, cancer, etc. It is supposed to have anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-viral properties. I recently learned of it when I was researching BV. On a forum similar to this one, a lady said that she had BV when she was younger. She douched with pau d'arco tea for 2 or 3 nights straight and the BV never came back. I thought "what the hell--I'll give it a try". There is a lot of info on the net so you can do your own research but here are a couple of links. I bought it in bark form and boiled it & strained it for tea. I did not have any side effects but I don't think it is meant to be used long term. Oh, it does make you pee! So I guess it's also good if you need to lose some water weight.

http://www.greatvistachemicals.com/herbal-...pau-d-Arco.html

http://www.allnatural.net/herbpages/pau-d-arco.shtml


"how long have you been battling BV? I first got it when I was ten"

pympmama1: Wow, at 10?! Just curious.. when it started, did you already have your period at that time?

[pympmama1]

1. age? 30
2. how long have you been battling BV? I first got it when I was ten and my mom was told no bubble bath or smelly soaps for me... the next bout with it did not come until I was 17 and became sexually active.. it goes away and comes back... when I was 17 my obgyn recommended douching intead of not douching. This time 3 and a half years
3. not sexually active and have not been for 2 yrs .... very fearful that men will be grossed out and think that i am unclean... before that I was in a 2yr relationship...
4. discharge and odor
5. 10 since the BA the smell has gone away thank god small little miracle
6 . 7
7. metrogel, flagyl BA( it works)
8. what do you think originally caused your BV? I think it is something i ate or stopped eating, soap used, being black, and not drinking milk .... I use to be able to drink milk now I can't I am alergic
9. none
10. 2... I think the doc are just as clueless as the rest of us as to what caused it... what pisses me off is that... we can clone sheep and make artifical wombs but we can not find a cause for bv.... When dr told me that many things could have cause it....Well how do i stop doing what ever caused this if you can not definitively tell me what caused it
11. regular and 100% cotton

[free_spirit]

Unlurking to say:

What a great idea to poll the thread...Now someone can post the running stats...(I think this thread should have a sub thread just to track the stats, keeping it seperate from the other posts, because you all seem so serious in finding the cure and this seems like a great foundation and starting point)

(I would have also asked how many people had abortions or were ever pregnant (as I heard that it is linked to bv (i forgot why though) ) and I would ask what is your background (black, white, etc) to find where it is most prevalent.

I really think that you girls are onto some ground breaking stuff...

Also it seems that most of the women here had it more several years, so maybe all women have it and different things trigger it making it worse in some women and not in others...Maybe some treat at the onsset and some are embarrased and treat once the condition has worsened...(just thinking about all the info gathered so far)

I personally think that BV comes from men who sleep around and have female fluids from other women that they have not washed or cleaned properly in their genital area, and they give other women other womens bacteria, mixing up different peoples bodily fluids which shouldnt be done in any area, let alone such a sensitive area as the vagina...



Someone (who has time) should emerge as a leader for this thread (to monitor the progress, success, and failures of the treatments (seeing which treatments lasted the longest, etc. and why? and what chemical or ingredient was specifically in the treatment) And someone should officially spearhead the quest for the cure (whoever cures this will obviously become rich as so many women will need the treatment of it)...
(this may seem so long winded, just a thought though)

The person should contact a lot of doctors and medical boards, etc. and petition them to research further. They should keep meticulous track of what everyone has going on with their individual bv case, and have doctors come look at all the research, etc. done here, and results you all have posted here to see what needs to be done, and find out why somethings are working more versus others.

This is so jumbled, but I hope someone understands what I am trying to say....And I know that this would be a lot to do, and it could be me who does it, I just wanted to put this out here...
And some of you will be thinking who has the time or wants to devote their life to finding a cure for bacterial vaginosis, but my reasoning behind this whole post is all it takes is one person to make a difference, and we can always dream can't we?! Women should not have to live with an embarassing and disgusting thing such as this. Even though it seems that a lot of people have it, it seems to be a shortage of awareness or lack of concern...So maybe BV needs a voice and or a spokes person.

Rambling so much...Oh well...
Maybe all of my posts from today should be in the eniberated (damn I spelled that all wrong) ramblings thread.

*Gulps last tasty swallow of cocktail*

[neverending]

more:

Estrogen may resist infection by increasing the number of lactobacilli, the microorganism that fights infection by lowering the vaginal pH levels and preventing E. coli from adhering to vaginal cells. Estrogen creams and estrogen-releasing rings have been associated with a lower incidence of recurring urinary tract infections than women not using such topical estrogens. A 2003 study indicated however, that the estrogen ring had no effect on lactobacilli and less effective than the standard preventive antibiotic regimen. Oral hormone replacement therapies, which contain estrogen, do not seem to provide the same benefit as the topical forms, and in any case are proving to have health risks, including an increased risk for breast cancer and heart disease. Evidence is lacking about whether vaginal forms of estrogen have not been associated with these risks.