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> "i have a bone to pick with you..." problems with friends
buttercups
post Nov 28 2009, 12:32 PM
Post #21


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Thanks Anna K and Persiflager for your great advice! Little update- I texted Z last night at 12: 30 a.m. asking her if she was at the party (even though I knew she was)- I have yet to get a response back...sooo I'm feeling like I'm pretty much done at this point, even though that could just be my anger talking.

You're both right, I know I need to communicate how I feel more and it is a possibility that these girls just really don't think they're doing anything wrong. Persiflager, I really like the idea about making a joke of it, that's much more my style. I guess it's something I'm really going to have to work on. My mom says she was completely non-confrontational until she had kids and then she was forced to act. Hopefully that won't be the case for me cause I don't want kids haha.

As for Z, I'm wondering if I'm being too harsh by thinking I just don't need her as a friend anymore, bc she has been my best friend, regardless of how good of one she's been lately. I'm going to wait and see if she contacts me today and if not, I'm just going to not really contact her until she does and just not invite her to things like I normally would. Guess I'm going to wait and see if she comes to me, and if she does I won't be all too eager to take her up on anything just yet. I'm going out with some other friends tonight and I'm evil-y hoping that she does ask me to do something just so I can tell her I have other plans, but I guess that's really high school-esque and not too nice of me, so I'll just plan to do that in my head and probably not act on it haha. Sometimes I really hate girls! I just want a good girlfriend who will never stab me in the back or dick me over, is that too much to ask?
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Persiflager
post Nov 28 2009, 08:22 AM
Post #22


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From: Babylon


(((buttercups))) I'm so sorry you're feeling rotten. I honestly can't tell if your friends are all horrible people who you should cut out of your life, or if the relationships can be fixed with a bit of communication. If you think it's the latter, I've got some thoughts (and have put them in sub-headings because I REALLY have time on my hands).

Friends taking advantage of you
This can crop up with partners, housemates, colleagues etc as well - it's very easy to have completely different expectations of a relationship, and to put different interpretations on actions based on those differing expectations. I could easily imagine being the friend who'd ask you to pick up milk on your way over to my house, but then I'd expect you to feel free to do the same (and I probably wouldn't really keep track of whether or not you did). I wouldn't know that you thought that was unfair unless you told me (I'm assuming your friends pay you back, otherwise that really is unacceptable).

Look, friendship has to have a bit of give and take. Maybe some of your friends think you don't need them because you never ask for their help?

Suggested actions:

- Continue being nice, but start asking those friends for favours too. Either you'll find that this is what they expect in a friendship, and you'll both benefit, or they'll flake out and you'll know they're not worth bothering with.
- Start saying 'no'. You don't have to give a reason or have a big discussion about it. Everyone needs boundaries, and real friends won't like you any less for setting them.
- Make a joke of it: "What am I, your mom?" Make them realise they're taking advantage of you by mocking them.

Your friend Z
She's being lame, and she knows it which is why she's avoiding you! You know why she's doing it - she's getting attention from these guys (possibly one in particular?), and it's something you can't provide. She thinks 'it's ok for buttercups, she already has a boyfriend'. And she doesn't want to hang out with you and them at the same time because you make her less cool in their estimation (and she feels guilty about not standing up for you).

I'd make plans with her for some time when you know she won't be hanging out with them, like lunch, and tell her how you feel. Ask her to make time for you on a regular basis, even if it's not as often as before, then leave it up to her. And make plans with other girl friends who aren't amused by dicks.



--------------------
“Logic is the art of going wrong with confidence.”
Morris Kline (mathematician, author) 1908-1992
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anna k
post Nov 27 2009, 11:28 PM
Post #23


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buttercups, your friend Z is being unreasonable, and she may feel like she wants these guys' approval, so she just goes with whatever they say, no matter how asshole-ish they sound. Know that you are true and honest, a great personality, and that you can't feel guilty if your friend makes the unwise choice to hang out with these guys. It isn't anything you did. People can be flaky, or neglect someone for somebody else, and it isn't about you, it's their own self to deal with. Worst case scenario: if she makes plans with you then breaks them for the guys, be honest with her about how you feel. She doesn't sound like a real friend anymore, you need people who really care and support you in your life, even if you have just one friend. I only have one real close friend, who is a guy, and have acquaintances and casual in different parts of my life. It can feel frustrating to not have a close group of girlfriends, but know that it's better than not having anyone to talk to, and I can always meet them at dance class, at work, at occasional parties, and enjoy their company without much expectations.

As for your friends treating you like a doormat, I know how hard it can be to speak up and not try to come off the wrong way. Your friends may not realize that they're taking advantage of you, thinking that you're so nice and helpful and don't think anything of asking you to do these things. Next time they ask you to go out for groceries, ask if any of them want to come with you, or that you need help. Something to bring in one of them, and maybe put a little guilt trip on them for taking advantage of you. You're so strong and intelligent and a wonderful person, and you can freak 'em out a little when you stand up for yourself. If they are your true friends, they will realize their mistakes, and if they leave, they weren't worth it in the first place. Don't feel bad about cutting people out of your life who weren't true friends or healthy for you. It's rare to find real, true friends, and people move a lot and change in life, few people have the exact same friends for years.

I hope this helps you out, I'm a little gunshy when giving advice.
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buttercups
post Nov 27 2009, 10:36 PM
Post #24


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Ugh home alone on a Friday night, irritated and need to get my frustrations out!

I feel like like I've always been a good friend. I can be pretty introverted and I def fight it bc I feel guilty not doing what friends want. I also have a bf and I've always tried to make time for both my friends and my bf, even putting my friends over my bf on several occasions, trying really hard not to be "that" girl. I'm a people pleaser and as a result of that I've become a total doormat, but that's just another issue. I've never had a great friend who treated me as nicely as I treat them. Friends always f*&k me over and I just can't figure out why.

The reason I'm home alone tonight is bc my best friend in the world, the one I've held over all others, has completely chosen a group of asshole guys over me (and this is far from the first time). Some of these guys are my bfs friends and they have treated me like total shit, and they've treated my best friend, Z, like shit too. These guys are rude and put down women whenever possible. They treat me like a dumb blonde anytime I'm around them and are completely disrespectful. Even though these guys have made inappropriate comments to me in front of my bf and Z, neither of them have ever stuck up for me. They are non-confrontational and so am I, but at least I can stick up for the people that matter to me, and I wouldn't dare let these guys treat Z like they treat me. I may have trouble sticking up for myself, but I've always stuck up for her. Sometimes when these guys make racist comments around me and her, I will say something and stick up for her and she just forgives them and makes me look like I'm being an overly sensitive idiot, even though I know the things they've said have upset her. They all give her attention since she's one of the few girls that hangs out with them, and she's had self-esteem issues in the past and really craves this attention, but even though I understand that it still hurts when she chooses them over me. She's started hanging out with this group all the time and the invitations from her have stopped coming. My bf tries to tell me it's bc she knows I don't like hanging out with this group, but she never tries to hang out with just me anymore and I'm always the one doing the asking now. I don't think I'm being jealous bc I've let this slide so many times, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Tonight was one of her "new friends'" birthdays and I told her to let me know what was going on for tonight saying I would go with her. She told me she'd def let me know, but I've yet to hear from her. I know she's out with them bc these guys have contacted my bf to invite him and she's definitely with them. I was waiting for her call, but now its almost midnight so I guess she's out with her new friends and that's that. I don't want to be upset, but I feel like I'm just not important to her anymore and if she can choose this group of assholes over me, then how much can I matter? I'm not even asking her to choose, just to include me more or at least make plans with me once in awhile. I'm hurt and I've had things like this happen way too many times for me to feel like I should be the one approaching her about it.

My other friends use me a lot, even asking me to go to the grocery store to buy their groceries for them when I'm on my way to their house. I know, why do I do these things? You're probably thinking its my fault for letting them treat me that way, and you're right. I say everything's fine and ok when it's really not, but I have so much trouble sticking up for myself. Its gotten to the point where I feel like I don't have a real friend in the world and never have bc people always use me. I'm so sad and depressed about this and I've always had friends who take advantage of me, so it must be something I'm doing. I have never asked people for anything and I guess people never know who I really am bc I'm always trying to do what they want and putting on a happy face. No one knows my real problems except for maybe my bf, but I'm so used to getting dicked over by friends that I can't open up to anyone. I don't know how to stop being "nice" and even now I'm feeling guilty wondering if I should contact Z just so she doesn't think I'm mad at her or something crazy like that, even though I've been mad about this for months now. I'm wondering if I should stop contacting her and drop her as a friend, but now that I'm older I don't have nearly as many friends as I'm used to and I regret cutting people out of my life from the past, even though I only cut out the people that did bad things and hurt me. What do you ladies think? I feel like I've given her plenty of chances, only to get shit on. Would you keep going out of your way for this person?

p.s. sorry for the long post, I'm just feeling so bad tonight.
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auralpoison
post Nov 25 2009, 01:37 PM
Post #25


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QUOTE(stargazer @ Nov 23 2009, 08:13 PM) *
Dude, first of all, don't assign me your guilt baggage. Not cool. I don't remember ever having a conversation about this chick with you. After racking my brain, I think I vaguely remember you talking/IMing/whatever about someone who called you occasionally drunk. After reading your post, my response is the response I felt to give you based on the information you shared in your post.


Um, WTF? I wasn't assigning you my "guilt baggage". I apologize if that's how it sounded, because that wasn't my intent. All I said is that we talked about it, you made me rethink the way I handled things & that it made me feel bad. The conversation was a long time ago & it may not have stuck with you, but it stuck with me since I very rarely doubt myself. My instincts are pretty good most of the time. Anyway, you got a bit shrink-y on me, I mean, that's your job isn't it? To make people examine the choices they have made? So I did. And I suddenly felt shitty about something I did even though I knew it was the right choice at the right time. You weren't actively trying to make me feel shitty; you aren't the sort to run around making people feel bad, but I did. So I thought, "Hey, why not try & repent? Be a bigger person here, it's been several years." Which was stupid of ME. I decided to do something against my better judgement. You may have inspired the change of heart, but you're certainly not at fault for my being a fucking idiota & letting this dink back into my life. This shit? Is ALLLLLLL mine. I'm tipping the emotional baggage skycap, not you.


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"You're cute, like a velvet glove cast in iron. And like a gas chamber, a real fun gal."
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candycane_girl
post Nov 25 2009, 12:32 PM
Post #26


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Posts: 2,336
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nick, I went back and read your original post and seeing someone 3 times a week is excessive! There are no two ways about it. It's great that you two are friends and that she has been there for you but even at the best of times, I personally have never seen a friend 3 times a week (except maybe in high school). It doesn't matter that her selfishness is getting to you now, what matters is that it's getting to you. I don't know how old she is but as a reasonable adult she should understand why you can't see her all the time. Moving is tough and while you don't want to ignore your friendships, it's also not fair for her to expect you to ignore your marriage. There's a balance. I think she should be able to see you once a week.

Also, it may not be the best solution but I live by myself and I watch a lot of television. Yes, sometimes it sucks to be alone but she should also try to enjoy it. Sometimes I just go out to movies by myself or to a museum or to a favourite part of town. There's nothing wrong with getting used to (and enjoying) time by yourself.

AP: defriend. Seriously, I think that people take the term "friend" way too seriously on Facebook. Just send her a message about why you're defriending her and then defriend her.
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nickclick
post Nov 25 2009, 06:31 AM
Post #27


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Posts: 2,134
From: jersey


QUOTE(stargazer @ Nov 22 2009, 07:55 PM) *
nickclick, I would probably just let your friend know how her behavior makes you feel too.

thanks, but yeah, like AP, i've been enabling her behavior. her selfishness is just now really getting to me, or in other words, i'm getting too old for this shit. but how can i complain now? we've been friends for like 8 years and NOW i'm annoyed that she's selfish and needy?

also, she was my roommate for 2 years. when i broke up a LTR, i called her and she immediately cleared our her home office so i could move in. like that afternoon. she was really there for me while i was going thru the breakup, ugly crying jags and all. and now i'm happily coupled and she's not. so i have this major guilt if i'm not there for her every moment she's unhappy.
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Persiflager
post Nov 24 2009, 04:13 AM
Post #28


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Ap, thanks for posting this. It's given me a clearer perspective on a friendship that's been bothering me for a while.


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“Logic is the art of going wrong with confidence.”
Morris Kline (mathematician, author) 1908-1992
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stargazer
post Nov 23 2009, 08:13 PM
Post #29


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QUOTE(auralpoison @ Nov 23 2009, 03:10 AM) *
And Star, I'm surprised that you commented on this when you were pretty much the one that made me feel bad about the way I just ditched this chick in the first place. When last I talked about handling things like this, you basically made me feel shitty & emotionally retarded. "That was really immature, there are better ways of handling things, people always seem to come back into my life, blahblahblah." I though maybe I was being an ass about the way I handled things & thought I'd see if anything had changed. Yeah, no.


Dude, first of all, don't assign me your guilt baggage. Not cool. I don't remember ever having a conversation about this chick with you. After racking my brain, I think I vaguely remember you talking/IMing/whatever about someone who called you occasionally drunk. After reading your post, my response is the response I felt to give you based on the information you shared in your post.

QUOTE
From now on, I'm gonna stick with my immature gut on things. It may make me a childish asshole, but I'm okay with that.


Well, I'm glad you got some clarity out of your post.



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"I'm not impressed easily. Wow! A blue car!"-Homer Simpson
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auralpoison
post Nov 23 2009, 02:10 AM
Post #30


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QUOTE(auralpoison @ Nov 21 2009, 02:38 AM) *
I'm basically using this as an exercise to sort some relationship issues out in my mind.


While I appreciate the input, I am the one that wrote it all down & I've already asked myself all the questions you all posited. I'm obviously pretty self-aware, I know/knew exactly what needs/needed to be done here, it just helped me clarify things to see it laid out in print. I feel better actually seeing it all.

Right now? I *am* getting something out of this. As sad as it sounds, my phone rings once in a while & it isn't somebody trying to get money out of me or a telemarketer. And having something to think about besides "WTF am I gonna do?" is kind of refreshing.

And Star, I'm surprised that you commented on this when you were pretty much the one that made me feel bad about the way I just ditched this chick in the first place. When last I talked about handling things like this, you basically made me feel shitty & emotionally retarded. "That was really immature, there are better ways of handling things, people always seem to come back into my life, blahblahblah." I though maybe I was being an ass about the way I handled things & thought I'd see if anything had changed. Yeah, no. From now on, I'm gonna stick with my immature gut on things. It may make me a childish asshole, but I'm okay with that.


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"You're cute, like a velvet glove cast in iron. And like a gas chamber, a real fun gal."
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spot-on
post Nov 22 2009, 07:58 PM
Post #31


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From: California


Ditto what Sybarite said. The relationship is all take take take again on her part, and you are doing the giving (emotionally). What do YOU want from the relationship? Do you realistically think it will ever happen? She sounds like an emotional leech but at the end of the day it's your relationship with her, only you can decide if it's really worth it?

Also, yes distance is great isn't it? There are reasons we moved 1000's of miles away to live in a different country. Take that family/friend drama and all the shit that comes with it smile.gif
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stargazer
post Nov 22 2009, 07:55 PM
Post #32


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AP, reading your posts reminded me of a couple of female friendships I've had in my 20s. I tend to be direct with people. I would probably just let her know where things lie with her, which I think you are ready to do from your post. That it is good to get in contact with her and seeing she is doing ok, but, that you have no intention in taking the friendship any further. Also, let her know how the drunk calls, etc. make you feel. I wouldn't get so caught up in her listening to you 'cause she'll only want to believe what she wants, but, at least, you know, you handled things maturely.

I remember I had 1 woman I tried to be friends with and it seemed like she enjoyed arguing with me and would get drunk before we went out to do something....yeah, not cool with that behavior. So, I ended the friendship and let her know why. She just made me uncomfortable and I didn't enjoy being around her. I would second what Syb said about what are you getting from this woman as a friend?

nickclick, I would probably just let your friend know how her behavior makes you feel too.


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sybarite
post Nov 21 2009, 02:02 PM
Post #33


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I concur with your assessment AP: you are possibly being too nice to this woman. Sars from Tomato Nation used to give the same advice over and over to people having problems with friends they didn't want to be friends with anymore: the more you reinforce the status quo, they more they think that everything's okay between you.

At the risk of sounding cold, I think you should decide exactly what kind of relationship you want to have with her, if any. I mean, from what you've written it sounds like there is no longer anything in this relationship for you except some residual sympathy for her. It sounds like a draining exchange, to be honest.

I don't believe in burning bridges, but I also live conveniently far from people from my past who I'm not interested in ever seeing again, so I appreciate the idea of reducing or breaking contact again is easier said than done. I have a probably irrational fear of clinginess, so my response is also informed by that. I'm sure she needs and values her renewed contact with you... but what are you getting out of this?
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auralpoison
post Nov 21 2009, 02:38 AM
Post #34


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This is long & quite a ramble, read it at your own peril. I'm basically using this as an exercise to sort some relationship issues out in my mind.

I am, by & large, a genuinely nice person.* I have a problem in that I am often too accepting of people's foibles: Nobody's perfect, everybody's got baggage, people are selfish/stupid/thoughtless, blah blah blah. Anyway, I usually know just how one of my friends is going to sin against me, & when the shoe drops? I forgive. How not to forgive when I KNEW they were gonna pull some shit that I am basically powerless to stop? I have in the past tried to preempt fucked up behavior in friends, which really only seemed to make the eventual situation worse than it should have been.

And lord knows, I'm not perfect & expect to be offered forgiveness when I've fucked up. I just didn't/don't seem to fuck up as much or as on a grand of a scale as some people I have known/know.

Anywho, about eight years ago, I reached a final straw with one of these friends (We'd been friends for maybe two years). I cut her off cold, no explanation, no nothing because I was just angry enough to have done something crazyinsane & gotten us both in trouble. I thought I'd get over it after a couple months. I didn't. She didn't help matters by drunkenly calling me once a month or so to either berate my machine or cry into it. By that point I was just done with her foolishness.

Now, I realize that a lot of her/my/our problems extended from the lifestyle we were living at the time. We were in our twenties, attractive, neither of us relationship type girls that liked to party & have a good time. So basically ridiculous sybarites that wasted tonnes of money. BUT. Party girl or no, I still had my shit together because I had responsibilities. I could always pay my bills, I always made it to work on time, I almost always made it to work 100% sober, I never spent money I didn't have, I never fucked anybody so truly regrettable that they'd steal the money for my cellphone payment while I slept. I'd work my eight hours, maybe overtime once or twice a week, take care of my mom, & still manage to squeeze in a goodly amount of recreation time. She could not do this & I picked up a LOT of slack for her (~cough~ enabled ~cough~).

In her defense, in her own way, she had been a good friend on many levels. We talked on the phone constantly, emailed from work, & did all the regular friend things. We hosted dinner parties, clothing swaps, movie nights & such. She was warm, smart, funny, & a pretty good egg. She was especially there for me when my dad died. She watched my pets, she cleaned my apartment, she dealt with my work. And most importantly: she didn't judge me. I did a lot of ranting & raving.

Eventually, however, I realized that she took out a lot more than she put into things, so I curbed things (~cough~ enabling ~cough~) on my end: If she watched my apartment, I removed every drop of liquor from the place except my mom's rotgut. If she didn't have anything to wear out, too fucking bad because she'd borrowed & ruined/kept enough of my things. If she was skint because she's spent all her money on partying, I'd buy her a few basic groceries or cut a small cheque (No more than $25) to her landlord/utilities to keep her running, but no cash & I wouldn't go out with her so she could cadge drinks. I no longer helped her dodge guys she'd cadged drinks from/errantly slept with, etc, etc, etc. I also stopped letting her slide on the little white lies she'd tell me, like when she said she'd stopped smoking when I knew she hadn't. She didn't seem to notice any of these changes or at least she never mentioned them other than accusing me of stick in the mud-ness when I declined an evening out.

Fast forward nine months. Post horrible breakup, I had been slowly, SLOWLY courting a fellow I thought was fantastic. Well-read, witty, charming, cute, delightfully argumentative. Long weekend afternoons of brunch, bloody mary's, & conversation. Talking during the week, really getting to know one another. He gave us a ride home from a Memorial Day party & as soon as the car doors shut? It was glaringly obvious that she was going to do everything in her power to fuck him. I do not know how or why I knew, but I did. When we were a couple miles from my house, I even asked to be let out from the car to find my own way home because I couldn't bear being the first one dropped off because I knew what they were going to do. I didn't hear from her for three days, confirming my suspicions. It took her two weeks of ass-kissing before she finally got drunk enough to admit what she'd done. And I was still just hurt enough to be mean for a change:

M: I slept with A.
AP: I know.
M: You knew?
AP: I knew you would before you did.
M: ~long, confused pause~ You? How?
AP: ~arched brow, tight grin~
M: Oh. He does totally like you, you know.
AP: It doesn't matter.
M: ~relieved that the sex that meant nothing to her also meant nothing to me~ No, it totally doesn't matter, you can still go out with him. He really does like you.
AP: No, M, you misunderstand. HE no longer matters. He's nothing now.
~long, VERY uncomfortable pause for her~
AP: Since it's your dime, I think I'll have the smoked salmon benny.

Things went fine for a couple months, M found a guy that she decided to make her sort of boyfriend, R. He wasn't very smart, he was annoying, he was a homophobe. I didn't like him much & when she asked me, I told her politely that I wasn't crazy about him, but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if she really liked him. I wasn't taking any of his homophobe shit, though. She got drunk & of course, told him that I HATED him, which made him feel bad. Things then got awkward because she didn't want to upset him or me, so she'd lie to one or both of us. More often me.

So I called her one Saturday morning after a great date (This is when I stopped discussing my lovelife with my IRL friends. It's none of their business & they can't fuck up or fuck a guy they don't know.) to see if she wanted to have breakfast because I was feeling good. She said she didn't know what she was doing, she was with R, she'd call me right back when they'd decided where to go. As soon as we hung up, I knew she was going to fuck me over for her hump because she couldn't keep her mouth shut & he was now uncomfortable with me. As the minutes ticked by, I grew progressively angrier BECAUSE ALL SHE HAD TO DO WAS FUCKING DECLINE MY INVITATION. After an hour I called her, she didn't answer her cellphone. After two hours, the same. At three hours, I calmed down & called somebody else. He answered the phone thusly:

C: So, you finally got tired of waiting for M, huh?
AP: Excuse me?
C: I just talked to M. She & R are at the spot finishing their breakfast. They've been there two hours. I already ate.
AP: Oh, well, thanks anyways.

My ire re-ignited. The spot was my local, so I called ahead & ordered breakfast to go because if she was still there & I tried to eat I'd have caused a MAJOR scene. I waited ten minutes, grabbed a book & walked over. They were outside, so I sat inside at the bar where M couldn't see me & ordered a quick drink since my food wasn't ready yet. She saw me on her way back from the john & wandered up to me all guilty-like.

M: ~awkward lie~ Hey! I just called you!
AP: ~stony silence, barely a glance~
M: ~changed subject~ So what's this you're reading? ~reached to touch book~
AP: Don't. Just DON'T.
M: ~fear, confusion~ Don't what?
AP: Don't touch my things & don't fucking talk to me. You'll only lie.
M: Wha wha what?
AP: Caller ID doesn't lie, you fucking do. Go fuck yourself. Don't ever contact me again.
M: Wait? What? Why?
AP: ~snatched bag off counter from quickly retreating bartender, slammed drink~ You know why. I'm serious. DON'T EVER SPEAK TO ME AGAIN. ~stalked away~

And that was that for me. Outside of asking her to return a few personal items of mine, I ignored her. I quit all but three of the people we ran with (People that were my friends first & were sensible enough not to get involved) & all of the places; thankfully she ceded me my local or there'd have been hell to pay.

M? She called, she emailed, she wrote me letters, she tried to talk to me in person. Eventually it dwindled to her once a month drunken rants, then it became her drunken rants where she included another mutual drunken friend that I kicked to the curb as well. This went on for about a year until she quit for a bit. I had drinks with an old common friend & his girl, she tried again. I briefly considered reconciling as I was no longer angry, but thought better of it & declined. She & R fell in love, he got her pregnant, they moved to Florida. I had dinner with the same old friend, she came to town, got drunk, & tried again. Again she was rebuffed. I continued on my merry way for years.

And then Facebook was invented. We reconnected, I figured it was harmless. She's in Florida, right? She's common law married, she has a five year old. What harm can she do? A little chitchat, blah blah blah. WRONG.

Somehow, she took my accepting her friendship on a social networking site to mean that we are as tight as we ever were & that no time has passed. All is forgiven & we are besties again. She got my number from a friend & now I can count on a once a month DRUNKEN (Some things never change. She hits the bottle once the kid is in bed) midnight phone call trying to convince me to come visit her. Because I want to spend my money to go to a state I hate to see somebody that I barely know, her irritating husband, & her kid. She can't wait for me to meet her daughter, she tells her about auntie Aural all the time, blah blah blah. I do not respond to her the way she responds to me (I really only take her calls because I'm lonely, I admit. I'm not proud of myself for it). She doesn't know about my work, she doesn't know about my man, she doesn't know dick about me & seems to not notice that she does all the talking when she calls. She doesn't hear me hustling to get off the phone after fifteen minutes of rambling. She does NOT HEAR me say that I am not visiting her.

I do not know how to MAKE her hear me. And even if she did eventually listen? She would be confused & hurt & not get it even if I spelled it out for her in plain English: You are an acquaintance at best. I am not spending all that money to come down there to get drunk with you. The Hard Rock is lame. I am not interested in regressing to ten years ago. I probably still would not like your husband, nor would he like me. The cycle would begin anew.

~sighs, rubs eyes~

I KNOW why she clings to me so. HIGHLY dysfunctional family life: Her mother had two daughters from a previous marriage before she married M's father & had her. M's father proceeded to molest her two step-sisters for several years. Ugly divorce, resentful step-sisters, no relationship with dad outside of the odd cheque when she fucked up too large. That led to her seeking out approval from somebody with an equally fucked up background that understood where she was coming from. Enter J, who is such a hot mess that I'm not even going to elaborate outside of the fact that her whole clan is racist, incestuous, drunken, drugged, promiscuous, dishonest, & just all around fucked up. Most of the fucked up shit M did to me? Were things that J did to her without blinking an eye. M just thought that that was how people that were friends acted, even though after she did them she felt bad, which J never, ever did. That confused M.

Anyway, M clings to me because I was the first REAL friend she ever had. No agenda, no ulterior motives, I cared about her & never tried to actively hurt her. If she had a problem, we fixed it. We didn't just spend our last twenty bucks on a case of Natty & a few joints & hoped it'd all work out on it's own. I shared with her, I didn't take take take take & take some more. I even welcomed her into my family, she had holiday meals with us, my mom even went to the trouble of making sure she got a little Xmas or birthday something personal from her even though she thought M was kinda nutso**.

M hasn't had a "real friend" since me. She has a handful of mommie friends in FLA, but no friends that don't just relate to her on the playdate level. That's why she's pushing the "Visit me" agenda so hard. She called me the other night with a "proposition" of me coming to visit some weekend, me getting a room at the Hard Rock, & us partying & riding roller coasters for a couple days. If there wasn't so much baggage attached, if it wasn't M, if it wasn't Florida . . . but it is. AND I'M NOT FUCKING GOING.

Whew! Writing all that down has made me feel ever so much better about things. Honestly, I think I just need a hug & to see my friends next week. It'll be a tonic & I will come back refreshed, renewed, & reinvigorated.

*I was largely unaware that I am considered "nice". Again, the advent of FB has driven this point home. People remember me as letting my freak flag fly, but also that I was confident, mature, dependable, & genuinely nice. Apparently I was nice to a lot of disenfranchised people back then & they appreciated it. I always thought I was a nasty little bitch with a chip on my shoulder the size of a small boulder.

**Totally OT, but a good memory of my mom: M had brought R over for Thanksgiving dinner. She was nervous, so they drank a couple bottles of wine before they came over. M was so drunk she couldn't get her pies to set up. We all continued to drink, we smoked a lot of my mom's good pot stash. At the time, my mom couldn't go to the bathroom without me to take her pants up/down & handle the wiping. Like catty bitches, as soon as the door shut, my mom started talking shit about R. We were standing there & I was trying to wipe my mom's butt, but we were both shaking too hard from laughing at what a fucking tool R was. Never thought I'd have a good chuckle at the memory of wiping a grown woman's fanny.


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"You're cute, like a velvet glove cast in iron. And like a gas chamber, a real fun gal."
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nickclick
post Nov 4 2009, 10:20 AM
Post #35


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 2,134
From: jersey


thanks, p and rv. thing is, she's making it hard to be around her, because i'm doing my best to be there for her and when she criticizes that it's not enough in this way, i just wanna say - eff you. i know it sounds harsh because i know how she's feeling, but it just never seems enough. but i will try honesty without the eff word smile.gif
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roseviolet
post Nov 4 2009, 10:06 AM
Post #36


Pacifism kicks ass!
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Posts: 3,064


Three times a week? That's pretty intense. What kind of activities is she suggesting? If she just wants to get together for lunch (and you usually go out to lunch anyway) then you could probably make that work a couple of times a week. However, if she's wanting to get together that often to see movies or go out to a bar then, yes, that's too often.

Is there a chance that she's still in pain from the break-up? Or maybe she was okay with the break-up at the time it happened, but is hurting from it now? If that's the case, I can see why she would want to spend a lot more time with her girlfriends.

I wonder if she'd be happy to just hang out at your house while you do your ordinary evening stuff. Maybe she'd be willing to help you unpack the last of your boxes from your move or help you cook dinner. I know when I went through a bad break-up, one thing my best friend did that helped me a lot is she gave me menial tasks to do around her store. I helped unpack inventory, vaccuumed the floors, worked the cash register, etc. It helped me take my mind off the pain while spending time with her. And as a bonus, it made life a little bit easier for my best friend.

I must confess that I demanded more of her time than what was really fair. I couldn't see it at the time because I was in so much pain, but I definitely see it now. All I knew was that I needed to be around close friends who knew me, warts and all, yet still cared about me and saw the good parts of me. Also, I found that my friends could speak to me more plainly about the situation than anyone else. I, too, moved back in with my parents after the break-up. Although I love my parents, I didn't feel as free to express myself in their home. But when I was with my girlfriends - especially my best friend - I could freely talk about my thoughts and feelings. She listened & was supportive when appropriate, but sometimes she also called me on my shit - especially when I was wallowing too much. I really needed that kind of honesty from someone who really cared about me. Maybe your friend does, too.
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p_176
post Nov 4 2009, 10:00 AM
Post #37


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 532
From: Baltimore


three times a week? has she not heard of meetup, idealist.org for volunteer opportunties, or even the public library has announcements for activities. it's fine for her to want to hang out with you and such; maybe sometimes she can come to your house? instead of spending all the money to go out.
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nickclick
post Nov 4 2009, 09:04 AM
Post #38


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 2,134
From: jersey


my friend is not seriously dating anyone and, after a nasty breakup a few months ago, living with her parents. so she is always trying to keep busy and get out of the house. because i'm married and recently bought a house, lately if she asks me to dinner or whatevs it feels like a test of my friendship. she's pulling out the guilt trips, like - can you PLEASE make a few minutes for me? she's been complaining to our mutual friend also, who has a bf, that when she had a bf she still made plenty of time for her friends and we don't.

i don't want to but she's pushing for argument and for me to say to her - look, i'm sorry you're bored but i have a new house, husband and other friendships that also need my attention! instead i've been lying/making excuses to avoid seeing her the 3 times a week she's been asking me out, not only because i have other stuff i'd rather do, but because she's becoming such a drag.

i need to include that when i had a breakup, she allowed me to crash in her apt. and we became roomates in another apt until i moved in with my now-husband. so i feel like i'm indebted, but i never forced her to babysit me like this.
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snow white
post Aug 27 2009, 09:16 PM
Post #39


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 345
From: upstate new york


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I'm not loaded, I'm just tired of being nice
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ketto
post Jun 22 2009, 11:31 AM
Post #40


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 695
From: Winter Land


My boyfriend doesn't understand how I can't get more angry at them. I guess I've known them so long and I know it's a twin thing. I think I could never quite figure out why we have communication problems before and I think it's because they almost treat each other like the same person sometimes, which is hard when you're closer with one then the other. It's like the bride and I are trying to communicate and her sister is our interpreter, like in the telephone game. By the time the message gets back to me I feel like it's unclear and muddled.

The bride has always had bad self esteem and security issues and I understand she was just trying to make both me and her sister happy. What she's forgetting is that we want HER to be happy. I think she actually just needs to learn to be a little more selfish really, and that's not a bad thing. I was really honest and we talked through everything on Saturday. She apologized and I apologized for some things and she admitted that it was a problem and that she will try and be honest. I told her that I really value her honest opinion and I don't want friends who tell me what I want to hear, I want to know what she thinks.

I also told her all the wonderful and beautiful things that I think about her and her fella getting married, which I admit, I've never said before, and I think that really made her understand that I really don't know she felt that way or thought I had bad feelings about their marriage.

We both said we feel a lot closer after talking everything out so I'm happy, and I think she's happier because it's a week before her wedding and she should be able to be excited and tell us what she wants, especially right now.

Unfortunately her sister was not so receptive. I understand she wrote the original email because she was trying to be protective and trying to use guilt to get me there, but all it did was get me really pissed off with her. I explained that she can't communicate for the bride and she said I don't consider the brides feelings - to which I replied, if she lies to my face and withholds her feelings then I can't consider them. I just re-iterated that she shouldn't send me emails like that in the future, and if she does I won't reply, but I'll go straight to the bride to find out what's going on. In the end she said we obviously have different opinions but we both apologized and agreed that we're friends, not as close as we used to be, but we love each other. Frankly, I was thrilled with that because I knew it was the best I would get from her.

Whew, I'm so glad this thread is here to vent. Thanks for the support everyone!


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