[moxiegirl]

annoush- it WILL get better. You both will learn what different cries mean. And waking up each time he gets to a sleep cycle is normal at notbob's age. Its normal at moxette's age, too...hence "Moxette vs. mommy- the sleep wars" Has entered the rematch. Daddy gets mui frustrated with the bebe. I bust.

talk to his pedi tomorrow morning.keep close track of what he's eating, how you're giving him the bottle and when he's angry. Try mycelon drops and the gripe water. If neither of those work, try soy formula. Still a no-go, then prob. reflux.

[anoushh]

Tell me this gets easier and that I will someday have some sense of knowing what to do as a parent and what my baby needs.

I know--Moxie just said that, for which I thank her profusely.
It can't be said too much right now.

I don't know if his fussiness is normal or not, but waking up from each sleep crying doesn't seem normal, even if he is hungry.

When did you know it was time for medication for reflux?

I''ve tried iwth the baths and things, but it's not easy, esp. as my mister was working stupid hours much of the time. We've had a talk, so it should get better. I missed my appt today b/c I had the wrong time, so it's scheduled for tomorrow now. I think there's another stitch not dissolved there. Arggh.

[moxiegirl]

Tart- poor tartlette! Its hard when you put them down, and they giggle. My inlaws have the same problem...

We had a gentle, easy sleepy night last night. And woke up to not just snotty nose, but goopy eye! Woot. NOT (borat, anyone?). So, mommy is home with moxette today, and we're going to see the dr at 11. She's in good spirits, so at the very least, I get some QT with my kid, which I think we both need anyway.

Annoush- see, I can't imagine tearing and healing from that! The c-section was pretty painful at first, but I had great painkillers, so as long as i took them ontime, it was cool. In fact, the painkillers work so well that after the 1st week, i felt like I could do anything...only to make the pain be sharp and the bleeding intense. It took about 4-5 weeks to really feel comfortable totally. Dr. told me "no heavy abs work" for 6 mos...i started at 5 mos with an abs class at the gym.

You;ll get to know not-bob, and fall all gooey in love around 4 months, then, all of a sudden, 8 mos arrives and its a challenge all over again. These great leaps forward, eh, tart? I had a talk with the lead daycare teacher this morning (went to collect sheets for wash), and she said in her 10 years of professional experience, the 7-9 month age is the worst for: sleep, germs adn eating. Combine that with early winter, and those kids are doomed. The 3 other 8 month olds all have the same runny nose as my kid.

[tart]

(((gentle vibes for Anoushh's tush))) I tore badly with my first, and remember how uncomfortable the healing process was. Hopefully you're being more vigilant than I was about the sitz baths & the donut pillow... One thing that did help a lot was to soak a maxipad with witch hazel when I knew I was going to be sitting for a while. And don't worry - your role as parent gets so much better once you've been around & gotten to know each other for a few months.

Our office party was last night, & our friends had another rough time babysitting... Tartlet didn't fall asleep right after the bottle, so they played with him some more & got him all riled up again. Then, when they decided it really was time for him to go to bed, they tried just putting him in the crib & closing the door. Ha. When he started screaming, they brought him out, played with him some more (we're now 1.5 hours past bedtime). Then they looked in the fridge & found the milk I'd pumped yesterday, and gave him that. Which he promptly spat right back up, not surprising since that meant he'd had a total of 12 oz for dinner. Grrr. We came home at 9:30 to a hysterically exhausted, tummy-aching bebe and two utterly baffled friends... We've given them the rundown on what it takes to get Tartlet to sleep, but they can't seem to resist when he gets a little perky (which he always does, right before he goes to sleep). I love them both, & I know they really like hanging out with Tartlet, but I think we may have to find someone who's a bit more "business" for the night sitting...

[anoushh]

Yes to the lifesaver sentiments from me too.

For me one of the hardest things right now is the not being able to sit comfortably as i'm still having trouble with the tear from the birth. I can't imagine what recovery from a c-section would be like.

And wondering if I"ll ever get the hang of this parenting thing. Good to have feedback from others--who aren't wacko, like some of the other places!

[moxiegirl]

Oh, I refer to my "friend in chicago who has a son 2 weeks younger than moxette" regularly. And, since you and I have actually met IRL, i don't feel totally weird about it.

OK, gotta get some work done here. I'm have a seriously shitty momma day- i always do when I KNOW moxette had a rough night- i feel like i should just be home with her to give her a calm day. If I can at least be really productive, the guilt might abate a little.

[tart]

Aw, man, when are you coming?! It better be before April - we're moving back to PA the 1st of May! I will be mondo peeved if we miss you...

And let me send the love right back at ya, Mox - I have a few friends with kids, but I'm definitely the crunchy, cerebral one of the bunch, and I get a certain amount of not-exactly-flak for our parenting style from friends & family alike. They mean well, I know, but there's always an element of skepticism lurking beneath. And the other mommy boards... well, I lurk, I observe, but so often I have to walk away from the militant attitudes about the Right Way to do things. Thankyou for being so open & honest & non-self-righteous about how you're raising Moxette - it makes me more confident in my ability to do what's right for us, and to keep perspective on the millions of other ways it can be done. We mamas have to stick together! And that goes for the rest of you Bustie mamas - Gren, Pepper, Farmgirl, Anoushh, and all you lurkers out there... I joke about my "imaginary Internet friends", but honestly, having such a great place to come & vent/crow/question/share is a lifesaver... /hormonal sappiness, before I get all misty on yeh

[moxiegirl]

yeah, we're pretty much relying on her grand naps on the weekends and early bedtimes right now. The "big kids" (the 4 1-year olds) in their class make SO MUCH noise that the middle group (4-8 month olds) are having a hard time calming down. I hope this gets better next week, once the bigger babies move up.

Sigh...tart- can I say how much I absolutly LOVE having you in my life right now? Its SO nice having someone with a tot the same age and general temperment as mine. I wish we were able to come to chicago sooner than the springtime. Sigh...

Oh, and the 2 oz is our attempt to wean...last night, she was so pissed, she got 2 oz formula, then 4 oz warm water (our substitute in weaning).

[tart]

Thanks for your daily breakdown, Mox. It makes much more sense when I see it in writing... here's ours, case in point:

5am-ish: nurse (probably about 4 oz)
7:30 am: about 3 T fruit & oatmeal, a few puffs, sippy cup
8:30-5: daycare, with a total of 18 oz milk/formula & 2-3 oz fruit & veg
6-7ish: occasional afterschool nursing, bedtime nursing (totalling 6-7 oz)
Midnight: sometimes 6 oz formula, sometimes nothing... (your 2 oz bottle makes me laugh, Mox - no WAY would Tartlet stand for such a tiny nibble. If he's eating, he wants to make it worthwhile...)

So that's 29 ounces, or 35 on a "bad" day. So really, he's right on the money, and a decrease now wouldn't be unusual, anyway. So actually, I should stop worrying about it & quit being a Nervous Nelly.

Tartlet's down to one paltry nap a day right now, Mox - 1.5 hours max, down from 2 or 3 hour-long stretches. They say he's just too busy, and doesn't stop playing long enough to hit the sleepy zone. So we get days like yesterday, when he conks out in the stroller on the way home, snoozes through a full wardrobe & diaper change, comes to for a whole 10 minutes, falls asleep on the boob & is in his crib before 7:15... silly baby.

[moxiegirl]

tart- we've started asking the daycare folks to give moxette some water with her solid meals- she LOVES it, and it assuages the little bit (ok, lot) of concern i have for the dehydration factor. I can't wait to eliminate midnights...soon. By christmas. Our basic thought is to wait until the tooth is out (any day now, we think) or christmas time, whichever comes first. We are just now doing this:

5-6amish- 4 oz formula
at school: 2 solid feedings (up from 1- a fruit and veggie and some cereal), and 12 oz milk plus whatever water she wants
afterschool snack/nap-4 oz formula
dinner-either fruit, veggie, yougurt (which she LVOES) or puffs/soft table foods and water
bedtime: 8 oz milk
midnight-2 oz milk (down from 4)

Our baby 411 book says that between 6-9 mos old, decrease from ABOUT 32 oz fluids a day to ABOUT 20-24...its definitly something i plan to ask the doc about. Is he peeing alot? that's the sign, really. every diaper should be at least a little wet.

I do LOVE the scream to snuggle factor. That's part of what makes the night wakings so hard...its just as hard on me. Last night, in the span of 3-3:15 AM (second round...), I got at least 10 totally differnet cries in about 30-second increments.

I am going to back off the yogurt for a day or two--in case it was gassies that inspired the night wakings. There weren't any farts, burps or weird poops (sorry, TMI) to speak of the last couple days, but its worth a shot. PLus, she's not sleeping well at daycare at all...1 20-minute nap yesterday. I don't know what to do about that one. The other 7 and 8 month olds are having the same issues, so I'm assuming its a development thing. Sigh...right now is a severe "i should be a SAHM" day.

[grenadine]

ah...well, enjoy it while you can - for us it came and went!

why not have them offer him another bottle at some point during daycare? the worst that can happen is he refuses it. it sounds to me like it would be hard for him to get too dehydrated with the amount he drinks at home (unless he had diarrhea or something), so i wouldn't worry too much.

[tart]

Sorry, Gren, too much time on other mommy boards - STTN = sleeping through the night.

I'm not averse to the extra solids, it's the dehydration factor I'm concerned about. We had a scare early on, and I guess I'm just paranoid about it, even now. Since we're doing both breastmilk & formula, it's hard to get accurate advice on how much he should be drinking, & if we should be giving him more water. I think what's throwing me is that this has been a fairly fast transition - only a month ago, he was eating at least twice a night.

[grenadine]

sttn?
i don't know what that is, tart, but if he wants more solids, why not give them to him? or maybe more formula during the day too...it doesn't sound like he's going hungry (if he were he would probably want to nurse all night), but i'd definitely try to replace the night bottle with a day bottle/snack.

[tart]

(yawn) Mornin', mamas... When I see your name, Mox, and a post time of 11pm, I know something's up... If it's any consolation, I think "willful" is in every 7-9 month-old's job description. We're getting our share of developmental waking here, as well, but it's pretty easily diverted with a scoop & a cuddle - three bounces, and he's right back to sleep again. (Can I just say that that's one of my favorite moments as a mom? Scooping him up in a tizzy & then feeling his little head go think on my shoulder & his whole body relax, except he strokes the hair at the nape of my neck with his fingertips & gives a big o' sigh... awwww, mushy mama moment...)

We've officially bagged the midnight bottle - woo! It means a 50/50 chance he'll be up at 3 or 4 for a snack, but I can deal with that, knowing Tartman doesn't have to camp out on the sofa all night. My poor boobs can't tell what's up, though - my supply's all over the place this week.

I asked this a few months ago, and I'll ask it again: how much are your weelets eating these days? Losing the night feed, I can't decide now if we're stuffing or starving the kid, or if we have it just right. He nurses for about an hour in the mornings, same again at bedtime, with the occasional 2nd breakfast or afterschool snack nursing. Tartman gives him maybe 2-3 T of oatmeal & fruit before they pack things up & head out. Then at daycare he gets 18 oz of milk/formula & 2 ice cubes-worth of fruit & veg, and by all reports he'd happily eat more solids if we sent them... I'm more concerned about the liquids end of things - going 6-9 hours with nothing to drink seems wrong, somehow. Am I missing the whole point of STTN, or what?

[moxiegirl]

in the 2nd of 5-minute FIO intervals. Let's see who wins tonights game of "Mom, I "need" you...at my beck and not wanting to be asleep calll"... willful mama breeds willful daughter. Somehow, I'm not surprised.

well, dr. brazelton was right. if she's at a developmental cusp, she wakes at each sleep cycle. It only took 2 5-minute intervals of fussy-crying and then gentle calming to get her back to sleep. Hopefully, tonight will be peaceful. For her, I mean...

[farmgirl]

Eep! A recap? Advance apologies for being wordy--I'll try to be somewhat concise... The trip was exciting, frustrating, awe-inspiring and maddening. Personally, I am really sad that I had to come home because I was spending time with some of my best friends. I fall into routines easily there and know what's expected of me--from baking cassava to hunting for ants (yum!) to holding workshops. Of course, I'm glad to be back with the Mr. and tots, but thinking about my friends so faraway makes me cry.

I drank a lot of kasiri, danced at many parties, and celebrated a b'day while there that started with a sack full of live chickens and ended with the young men doing an impromptu serenade complete with drums and guitars at 3am.

Workwise, the work went really well. I held workshops on curriculum design and Kari'nja grammar with the elementary school teachers (they'll begin teaching the language in the school in Jan), lesson planning and teaching methodology with the adult school teachers (who also begin in Jan), and spent a lot of time with my main collaborator discussing grammar and fieldwork ethics. I learned more than I thought possible in 2 months.

I'm actually rather proud of my "data collection" because it involved several levels of collaboration, and sprouted from an idea someone in the village had. From my journal: “The Pear Film” is a short video that was developed as a data collection tool. Problems with the film include the fact that pears don’t grow everywhere, and the "actors" are white. Two people in the village had had a brainstorm that we should film the entire cassava process from cutting a ground to eating arepa. I had a subsequent brainstorm that this film would be a perfect data collection tool. It was win-win because it’s culturally relevant, provides data that can actually be used in the school, and has the added benefit of an all-local cast and crew. It worked out remarkably well. Everyone was very excited about it, and I had people lining up to describe the film.

I am SO GLAD they had this idea, and SO GLAD I piggybacked my idea onto theirs.

My new avatar pic is where I bathed 3 times every day with my best friend (after whom tot2 is named). She and I spent hours at the river laughing at nothing in particular and everything all at once.

Whew!

[tart]

Farmgirl! Welcome back! Surinam details, yes please! Good luck with the transition - just goes to show, the wee ones want & need structure, whether they like to admit it or not.

Good question about the yoghurt, Mox - I've been wondering the same thing. Sears says no cow til at least 9 months... but he's getting milk-based formula, and cultured stuff is much easier on the system than straight milk, so...?

Tartlet got his fussypants memo, and really threw himself into it this weekend. We dropped his crib mattress (he's pulling up all of a sudden, and was leaning waaay out over the top rail), and now when we pop him in there to entertain himself for a bit, you'd think we were pulling out his toenails. And heaven forbid I pick him up when he's in the middle of playing with something, or is too close to the edge of the bed. Yipes. Hopefully this will die down a bit before we go home for Christmas... The high point this weekend was trying out Gerber veggie puffs - after getting several of them stuck to his lip/cheek/hand, he got the hang of things and was chomping away like a big boy.

Poor not-Bob! We dealt with reflux very early, as well, Anoushh, and the Zantac improved everyone's lives immensely. If it is reflux, I'd switch back to the slow nipples - too much milk too fast definitely aggravates the tum, in our experience. Ditto Mox's rec for getting cheapo formula - our ped told us the exact same thing.

[moxiegirl]

WELCOME HOME! A short travelog of your adventures in Surinam would be mui appreciated, Farmgirl!

The teeth...not in yet, BUT almost. We can see their outline, and my GODS the drool.

We had a great weekend this weekend...lots of family time, loads of friend time, good christmas shopping. Twas lovely. How bout everyone else? We're still walking, walking, walking...skipped crawling all together. She's GD adoreable right now. SO proud of the walking.

FG- I don't envy you the re-boundary setting. Poor tots, poor gramma. We're starting to talk over what boundaries are immediate, early and non-negotiable in our house. Even things that one would think are no-brainers, like don't touch the oven door...even when off...seem to not be so black-and-white in real life.

Question- when did you all start the bebes on yogurt? I think introducing some more protien into her diet is a good idea, and she seems bored with the general baby-food fare. Yet, no meat, no eggs yet. Hmmm...8 mos old, no food aversions yet.

[farmgirl]

(((fussy babes))) (((((parents of fussy babes)))))

Reading up here, I sure don't miss the fussy, gassy, teething times!

~~~bust on through vibes for moxette's teeth~~~

Anoushh, Tot3 was similarly fussy, and I found that eliminating dairy helped A LOT. It might be worth a try in conjunction with the reflux treatments. I also second moxie's Gripe Water recommendation.

I'm just back from my 2-month fieldwork trip to Suriname. I'm happy to be home, but sad not to be there anymore. I miss my friends already. And, it's freaking COLD here!!

We're all dealing with adjusting to my being back. Apparently, 2 out of 3 tots were serious pains in the ass while I was gone. Gran had her hands full. Tot2 was just a total asshole, saying things like, "What?! You don't know the rules of this house? Well, you're not a very good mother, are you?" in a very patronizing tone. Tot3 handled the change of my absence by trying to control whatever she could--resulting in more than one 2-hour parking lot standoff with Gran. My mother doesn't know any other discipline than spanking and since that's not an option here, she was at a loss. She basically let them do whatever they wanted and then told the Mr. about it hours afterward after it was too late do do anything. ::le sigh:: So, they're all desparate for some boundaries, and our every interaction lately is about re-setting them. Yup, the sheriff's back in town...

[moxiegirl]

annoush- try gripe water, also. Old Indian baby cure-all. worked freakin wonders on moxette's gassyness. Any Indian grocery store should carry it. Maybe the soy formula, too? And, as a fellow formula feeder, let me suggest (this is for you, not not-bob), that once you figure out milk-based or soy-based, you use the cheapest (target, costco) brand you can find.. Moxette's gas went down tremendously once we went to costco brand forumla. And at 1/2 the cost, that's good for us, too. In the meantime, i think I have some similac coupons left...interested? PM me if you are.

The teething saga continues. no fever yesterday, but fussy-fussy kins. Vibes for quick poppage, or that dumb song will be our reality (All I want for christmas...blech).