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> Mad Women Who Love Mad Men
roseviolet
post Sep 27 2010, 09:18 AM
Post #21


Pacifism kicks ass!
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[tip-toes back into Lounge] Hi, gang! Long time, no see! I've been missin' my Bust time lately, so I thought I'd pop in and see what you fabulous people have been thinking about Mad Men this season.

First of all, I have to say that "The Suitcase" was my favorite episode this season. Probably one of my top 2 episodes of all time. It was the episode that took place on Peggy's birthday and focused on one long night wit Don and Peggy. Their relationship is my favorite on this show and I loved to see the way it grew. I really love the way they trust and respect one another ... and that there's not the slightest tint of sexual overtones. They remind me more of siblings than anything else.

As for this week's episode, I have to admit that I was a wee bit disappointed in how it handled Joan and Roger. It felt like one enormous cliché to me. Far too predictable. This annoys me because I always felt that Mad Men made a point of avoiding classic clichés. Sheff had some choice thoughts on the matter, too. Spoilers below ...

The pregnancy. Tons of people predicted it and, in my mind, that meant that surely the writers on Mad Men would not let it happen. I'm glad they got it out there quickly, though. No need to beat about the bush and be mysterious. They just laid it out there at the top of the episode. Kudos.

Now, as for the abortion. I don't think Joan got one. I really hope she did, but I suspect she didn't because she was walking about the office too smoothly the next morning. If she'd had a bit less of a sashay to her stride than usual, I might have bought it, but now I'm thinking she changed her mind (or decided to take some time to think about her options some more).

This brings up one of my and Sheff's BIGGEST pet peeves about television: main characters never get abortions during the run of the show. Maybe, like Joan, they had one (or two) in the past, but if a character in a TV show gets knocked up along the course of the show, she ALWAYS keeps the pregnancy. This is so damn unrealistic it drives me nuts. And I think it may annoy Sheff even more than it annoys me (he was seriously disappointed last night). It's lazy, wimpy writing and I expect better from Mad Men than that.

That said, I will admit that I can see why the writers might choose for her to keep the pregnancy. Everything else is imploding and going to shit, so they might as well throw this on the pile, right? Plus, this could be Joan's way of getting out of her marriage. We've learned recently that she's not good at plainly asking for what she wants now. Instead, she'd rather manipulate men into doing what she pleases. If she gives birth to another man's child, maybe her husband will leave her and she won't have to ASK for a divorce. But frankly, I think that's taking things too far. Joan isn't *that* lacking in agency. If she really wanted a divorce, I think she could go out and get one. And if she really wanted to be with Roger, she could easily make that happen, too. But I don't think she wants that. She doesn't want to marry Roger. And she doesn't really want to be a single mother. And I don't think she really wants to divorce her husband right now. So I'm seriously hoping I was wrong and she really did have an abortion afterall.
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stargazer
post Sep 23 2010, 05:48 PM
Post #22


brown delicious
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Kittenb, my mom thought the exact same thing. smile.gif


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"I'm not impressed easily. Wow! A blue car!"-Homer Simpson
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girltrouble
post Sep 23 2010, 04:02 PM
Post #23


new highs in personal lows daily!
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i think it goes both ways-- i think joan always saw herself with roger, but when he married someone else, she went to that horrible doctor. the last few weeks they were showing their history and how she was the one who gave don the chance and nudged roger into things....


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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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kittenb
post Sep 23 2010, 07:33 AM
Post #24


There is nothing ironic about Show Choir!
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Sally was breaking my heart in this episode. She has such an idealized image of her father & all she seems to understand is that he left & everything sucks now.

I was also suprised by the Roger/Joan situation. I guess I'm not that suprised that they hooked up but to have done so under a staircase just seemed odd & raw, very unlike they way that they were previously. It is clear that no one ever got to Roger the way that Joan did. Now, does anyone else suspect that Joan might be pregnant in the next episode? She is off birth control as she was trying to concieve w/her husband and the end of next week's trailer (after seeing Roger say, "This can't be happening!") was Joan sitting alone on a bus. I wrote that in white as I couldn't get the spoiler box to work.


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In times of destruction, create something.
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stargazer
post Sep 20 2010, 04:22 PM
Post #25


brown delicious
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QUOTE(auralpoison @ Sep 20 2010, 08:38 AM) *
Is it just me or do we think that little Sally Draper is eventually going to run off to California & join the Manson Family?


Dude. I think she will. blink.gif

Um, and was the last scene an attempt to tell us that Peggy was taking the "straight" road? mellow.gif


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"I'm not impressed easily. Wow! A blue car!"-Homer Simpson
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auralpoison
post Sep 20 2010, 09:38 AM
Post #26


Big Fat Bitch
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Is it just me or do we think that little Sally Draper is eventually going to run off to California & join the Manson Family?


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"You're cute, like a velvet glove cast in iron. And like a gas chamber, a real fun gal."
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nickclick
post Sep 20 2010, 09:36 AM
Post #27


Hardcore BUSTie
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From: jersey


another great episode featuring the difference in Joan and Peggy and how they view their vulnerability as women and their relationships to men, as well as Dr. Faye's and even Sally's.

note to Matthew Weiner and AMC: please please PLEASE produce a spinoff starring Sally as a young woman knee deep in the 2nd wave!
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stargazer
post Sep 17 2010, 07:01 PM
Post #28


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QUOTE(kittenb @ Sep 15 2010, 03:05 AM) *
As far as the conflict between Joan and Peggy, it can't be denied that Joan is a powerful woman. However she is stuck in such a powerless place and she plays by the rules (be sexy, get what you want.) Peggy, by firing the idiot, actually broke the rules.


I so agree. Joan is outdated in her approach to using her power in the workplace. The relationship between Peggy and Joan is very similar to the themes being discussed during this season, the new and innovated vs. dated and out of touch. I do not think Joan realized that she played into using her sex as a power dynamic by harping to Peggy that she could've gotten the same response by going to lunch with a higher up. I was *so* not impressed with Joan. I felt like she disregarded Peggy's power with that move. At the same time, I feel like Peggy is experiencing the isolation that comes with taking up one's power as a woman in the workplace, you are not one of the boys, but you are also not one of the girls.

Go Peggy! I'm so lovin' her this season.

Btw, Gawker's Brian Moylan does excellent write ups of Mad Men shows. There was a great discussion about the Joan and Peggy relationship in the comments section.


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"I'm not impressed easily. Wow! A blue car!"-Homer Simpson
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sybarite
post Sep 15 2010, 03:26 PM
Post #29


it's cards on the table time
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By the logic of their workplace, Joan initially asserted her control over the situation (to me she didn't go far enough but it was her call and her solution). Then Peggy effectively relegated Joan to 'just a secretary' by firing Freelancing Asshole, albeit for the right reasons. The intersection/ conflict was between both gender and professional status--for me it problematically marked Joan as 'just a secretary' in that hierarchy which negates the fundamental work she did/does.
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kittenb
post Sep 15 2010, 04:05 AM
Post #30


There is nothing ironic about Show Choir!
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I keep thinking that I am done thinking about this week's episode but it won't let me go. When idiot freelancer boy shot off his mommy-hating mouth to Joan I was gut-punched. I looked at The Geek and said, "I barely thought much about him before now but now I just want him to die!"
As far as the conflict between Joan and Peggy, it can't be denied that Joan is a powerful woman. However she is stuck in such a powerless place and she plays by the rules (be sexy, get what you want.) Peggy, by firing the idiot, actually broke the rules. While she might not consider herself a feminist, by becoming a "humorless bitch" she showed power. It will only take about 40 years (& counting) before her actions are respected. I am not hating on Joan but it saddens me to see how stuck she is both in the workplace and at home.


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In times of destruction, create something.
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nickclick
post Sep 13 2010, 07:28 AM
Post #31


Hardcore BUSTie
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From: jersey


poor Joan. she feels like she's losing control. she's being treated at home the same way she is at work. but don't sass my Peggy! oh and i knew Don would feel that way about the drawing but i didn't expect him to actually say - boys will be boys. ick.
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sybarite
post Sep 9 2010, 03:16 PM
Post #32


it's cards on the table time
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You know, one of my reservations about MM (which is otherwise often amazing) is that I usually feel distanced from its characters. This episode brought home lurking emotional/power stuff dating from... seasons ago. Awesome.
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auralpoison
post Aug 30 2010, 10:43 AM
Post #33


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The handholding. WTF was that about?

My favorite line: "I've read your pamphlets, and I'm not interested in the Temperance Movement." Rizzo is a total prick, but that was a great line.

Goodness, Danny Strong is pocket-sized. I knew the guy was short, but him standing next to Jon Hamm at the end there was funny!


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nickclick
post Aug 30 2010, 05:16 AM
Post #34


Hardcore BUSTie
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From: jersey


well, another week when the psychologist turns Don down, and i was glad. he's becoming even more of a desperate drunken loser.

i loved the Roger/Don flashback! and i loved that Joan was there, looking suuuuper hot.

and speaking of Roger and Joan, best line..... "you've crossed the border from lubricated to morose". all the while he's thinking back to when his work was somewhat important.
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stargazer
post Aug 29 2010, 07:51 AM
Post #35


brown delicious
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So...how have we not talked about last week epi?!? I think someone asked for family dynamics in here. It was all over the place in this episode.

I think Sally is a representation of the dysfunction in the Drapper family. That poor child is really being geared towards acting out behavior.

Hooray for Pete for being assertive with Roger! I loved that he called Roger out on his behavior. It looks like Pete is becoming more comfortable with the game of the advertising business.

Does anyone think something will happen with Don and the psychologist? I remember reading online (I think Gawker) about how Anna has been the only woman in Don's life he has been able to tell the truth about his life. I was surprised how much he told the psychologist about his family life.



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nickclick
post Aug 19 2010, 06:49 AM
Post #36


Hardcore BUSTie
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From: jersey


QUOTE(coffeebean @ Aug 18 2010, 05:07 PM) *
I have to admit that I miss the family story element that included Betty and the children. I am still enjoying the show but wish that there was more story line with them. I'm a family dynamics junkie smile.gif

i agree! and from next week's previews, looks like Betty and Henry will be having some drama of their own.....
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coffeebean
post Aug 18 2010, 04:07 PM
Post #37


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Hi have to agree with Ketto. I think that Pete is surprised to find that he is so pleased about Trudy's pregnancy.

I also thought that the final scene with Pete and Peggy was sad - but did a lovely job of setting up the dichotomy between Pete and the 'old boys club' and Peggy and her choice to join the more 'contemporary hipster crowd.' This should make things more interesting in the office when it comes to Peggy's story line (although it has already been good). Perhaps she will be trying to push the advertising boundaries even more, only to find that he ideas are rejected by her coworkers.

I have to admit that I miss the family story element that included Betty and the children. I am still enjoying the show but wish that there was more story line with them. I'm a family dynamics junkie smile.gif

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auralpoison
post Aug 18 2010, 01:34 PM
Post #38


Big Fat Bitch
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QUOTE(ketto @ Aug 18 2010, 01:54 PM) *
His move with his FIL was pretty smarmy, however, it was also really fucking smart.

I think that may just be the difference in Pete. He's grown from being merely smarmy & clever to actually being smart.


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ketto
post Aug 18 2010, 12:54 PM
Post #39


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I think he is. He seemed genuinly happy but I think he was surprised that he was, given that he knows he alreayd has a son. It made me so sad at the end when him and Peggy just looked at each other. I like Pete more this season, he seems like he's grown up a bit. His move with his FIL was pretty smarmy, however, it was also really fucking smart.


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nickclick
post Aug 18 2010, 05:21 AM
Post #40


Hardcore BUSTie
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From: jersey


is he REALLY happy about the new baby?
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