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> Bustie Goes To Washingon, politics as usual...and unusual
kittenb
post Jun 26 2009, 11:08 AM
Post #21


There is nothing ironic about Show Choir!
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As an Illinois resident I might be too used to mocking governors but I find the whole Sandford thing hilarious and weird, as if it should be some paperback novel.


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girltrouble
post Jun 25 2009, 01:46 PM
Post #22


new highs in personal lows daily!
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that's a good link, star thank you.

i'm curious as to how people feel about the mark sanford scandal.

personally i think many republicans in his position deserve their comeuppance, but i find the reading of his emails... well.... tasteless.


--------------------

"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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stargazer
post Jun 25 2009, 07:52 AM
Post #23


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So, he's upset that Obama spoke up. Weird.

kittenb, the news of cutbacks or loss of funding for mental health services and people with disabilities is just sickening for Illinois. The state has slowly been screwing their social service programs for some time. I really wonder if the politicians think about where all of these people will go.

ETA: GT, after reading your post, I've needed to refresh my memory about the tension between Iran and the US. I found this background through wiki. I remember hearing alot of Iran and the US during my childhood. Part of this conflict between the Carter administration that some believed led to Reagan being elected in the 80s.


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"I'm not impressed easily. Wow! A blue car!"-Homer Simpson
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girltrouble
post Jun 24 2009, 01:11 PM
Post #24


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cnn did a great segment on women at the forefront of the iraq protests on AC360 (with campbell brown). i'd link but they haven't posted it. but here is what they do have. i usually like msnbc, but cnn is freaking phenominal. they have some really great interviews with people who are thoughtful, and shed light on a lot of cultural details that really illuminate things. i've found myself moved to tears by a few of the interviews.

my computer is running super slow so i'll post more later.


--------------------

"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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girltrouble
post Jun 23 2009, 12:47 PM
Post #25


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kitten feel free to ask questions here. i love trying to dig and research stuff, so if you are just curious, post.

some of the best coverage, actually has been on cnn, although they need to get rid of their cyberboner. they spend entirely too much time oooooing and aaaaaahing over technology. "twitter is SO amazing! we got that 10 SECONDS AGO!!!!!!" uh... ok. but shouldn't the story be the point? that said, between their cooing, they covered most of the angles, although they only lightly touched upon america's history with iran, which is a crucial angle, in understanding why republican grandstanding is exactly the WRONG thing to do, and could get people killed. personally, i don't get why obama or any other official needs to say anything? it strikes me as the zenith of american vanity, arrogance and egotism, as if they need our help at all. bad news america:IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU. they don't need or want our support verbal or otherwise. our endorsement of their protests is the kiss of death, and any words we say only hurt their cause, and their people. this is where history is sooooo very important and has been the thing missing in american coverage. we have manipulated and fucked with iranians and thwarted their self-determination since that country's inception*. they have been fighting, in many ways, for freedom from american manipulation just as much as anything else. keith olberman did a quick primmer on iran/american history that lasted less than three minutes, touching on all the major points neglected by the 24/7 news channels.

all and all, i don't know if you could say that iran will emerge a stronger enemy when the dust settles, kitten, even if amadenijad does remain in power. to my mind, the seeds have been planted, and the social memory is much deeper and longer in the middle east than it is here. people will not forget a couple of things: 1)martyrs, their friends and family who have died, 2) people controlling the streets, and the pre-election freedom, 3)relatives who have been jailed and injured. 4)their vote was stolen. these things are poison to any regime, although it may take some time. but the people in iran have wanted nothing but their own freedom, and have been fighting for it for nearly 100 years. that's not going to stop even if those in power win temporarily.

for me there are a couple of things i'm looking for that would mean a real change: a strike among the oil workers, defection of top military people, clerics taking and even tougher stand for the rebellion*. these things could signal a real turn of events and iran's course.

*the brief history of american in envolvement in iranian affairs i mentioned aired on countdown with keith olberman can be found on nico pitney's blog about the iranian protests (and the best resource on it i have found), at huff/post. it is the embedded video post on tuesday 10:38 AM ET

here is a short article about uk and the shaw, but the installation of the shaw was, in the main, and american endeavor. this article only briefly goes into details, and is mostly about 1953. american (and uk) involvement/meddling goes back further tho. i'll see if i can find a more detailed timeline of anglo/iranian involvement.

**there is a little movement on this front: according to the huff/post blog, 40 clerics, supporters of rafsanjani, have signed a letter calling for annulment of the last election.

ETA: nokia and siemens assisted in creating the architecture that iran uses to not only censor, track it's citizen's communications, but they can also manipulate them as well.

linky


--------------------

"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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kittenb
post Jun 23 2009, 08:12 AM
Post #26


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I haven't posted about the situation in Iran b/c, for the most part, I didn't feel that I knew enough about what was going on there. However, I was listening to BBC News on NPR last night and they mentioned the story of Neda. All the American news I watch (almost all just local Chicago news; cable news makes me crazy) haven't brought it up at all. They will mention that "_____ number of people have died in the protests," and leave it at that.

As for Obama's reaction, while I see his point that he doesn't want the world to view this as an American lead revolution, I think he needs to say something more than what he has said. Of course, as I don't believe the situation will change and I think that Amadenijad will still be in office when the dust settles, I am not sure that I am ready for Iran to be a stronger enemy than they already are.

In local news (Chicago), there is a huge rally pulling together in the state capital to protest budget cuts. The governor has said that either state income tax is raised by 50% (about $14-$20 per pay check) or human services are cut by 50%-75%. Everyone I work with is flipping out at the moment, myself included, even though I am quitting my job at the end of this week. It is scary and disheartening. sad.gif


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stargazer
post Jun 22 2009, 01:05 PM
Post #27


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I guess I was hoping more Busties would be posting in here with the news of Iran.

I actually find this type of uprising simultaneously exhilarating and scary as an observer. I tend to take on the type of role of "social justice" in a system when I feel there is a level of unfairness. Unfortunately, when you work in a conservative environment, to be a woman, to be a woman of color, just speaking up alone brings immediate interpretations of myself as an aggressor, defiant, or guarded. Yes, I've been told that to my face. Fortunately for me, I come from a city of hot heads and a city known of unrest (Democratic Convention of '68 and every day City Hall dealings). I am definitely a believer that systems need to be shaken down some times in order for a rebirth and transformation to take place.

So, I am so proud of the women and young people in Iran willing to risk their lives to be heard and protest injustice. I think as women, if we are willing and wanting to be treated equal, then we are willing to risk our lives. I think what is occurring in Iran not only challenges the notion of the feminine being sacred and needing protection, but also, to what extent are men willing to speak up on the behalf of others who are vulnerable (such as women).

GT, it is sad that when people look to their leaders for leadership, how the decisions which are made can kill off people's hope of democracy. I think we struggle with the notion of leadership in the States. I think it is part of the reason why so much Hope was instilled with our current president, Pres. Obama. We've been wanting change for some time, but, how much change can happen. To what extent, does the machine eventually condition, even those who promise change, the act of compromise and selling out of ideals? I think, at my age, both personally and professionally, I'm struggling with this type of compromise. It pisses me off. I guess I'm losing my own illusion of what it means to be a leader because eventually there are everyday decisions and pressures we are not aware of. I don't know how this links up with Iran's current situation, but, they are ideas that have been running in my head. It is sad that Iran's gov't is not willing to be reception to its people. The irrational belief that killing its own people off will keep their system copesetic is delusional at best.

The whole situation reminds me of the election for Bush's second term. We handle things in the US in a very Julius Ceasar ending. We like to have our leaders smiling and telling us every thing will be ok. If we are not affected, then we think things are fine. Unfortunately, the American public rather turn a blind eye to our own type of illegal behavior. We just do it more covertly and stab you in the back. I find myself thinking about what has changed from the rebellion of the 60s (both socially and psychologically) to the present day where we need our leaders to be safe and socially acceptable. I guess I find myself missing that type of radical, inspiring behavior in leadership. So, I guess that is why I'm happy to see the people of Iran continuing to fight for their rights. I hope the American public can do the same in addition to voting in various elections.

So, to make my post even longer, I thought I would post one of my favorite lines from the American President which I thought accurately captured the relationship between Americans, politics, and the media.

Lewis Rothschild: You have a deeper love of this country than any man I've ever known. And I want to know what it says to you that in the past seven weeks, 59% of Americans have begun to question your patriotism.
President Andrew Shepherd: Look, if the people want to listen to-...
Lewis Rothschild: They don't have a choice! Bob Rumson is the only one doing the talking! People want leadership, Mr. President, and in the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.
President Andrew Shepherd: Lewis, we've had presidents who were beloved, who couldn't find a coherent sentence with two hands and a flashlight. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference.

QUOTE(girltrouble @ Jun 20 2009, 12:48 AM) *
another day, another serving of crow. it's a constant diet for me.
and my favorite, humble pie for dessert.


Don't worry, I feed the pie to you myself. I know you like to be fed. wink.gif


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girltrouble
post Jun 20 2009, 12:48 AM
Post #28


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QUOTE
Yes, you did.

another day, another serving of crow. it's a constant diet for me.
and my favorite, humble pie for dessert.


--------------------

"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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stargazer
post Jun 19 2009, 11:29 PM
Post #29


brown delicious
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QUOTE(girltrouble @ Jun 19 2009, 11:05 AM) *
there were some busties who said a political thread following obama's election. i was one-- perhaps the main person who poo-poo'd it.


Yes, you did. I still got love for ya. Moonbeams and sunshine! wink.gif

Ok. I will make a more intelligent response after I've read the previous posts. Thanks for starting this thread, GT.


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girltrouble
post Jun 19 2009, 08:11 PM
Post #30


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oh it made plenty of sense, QB. good to see you back around. i was wondering what happened to you!


yeah i am wondering/scared about what tomorrow will bring for the iranians. there was a guy on rachel maddow earlier in the week who was talking about how martyrdom is kind of an engine for change in that country. he surmised that the day of mourning would lead to bloodshed, and that would lead to more days of mourning, and more bloodshed, as it had been for the last iranian revolution. but there was no crackdown yesterday, but i fear there will be some tomorrow. and it begins. i think most of the world is holding it's breath, but at the same time i am so amazingly proud of them. i've posted about how the WTO protests changed the way i thought about things. there really is nothing as beautiful as a city that has been taken over peacefully by it's citizens. there were not nearly as many people in seattle, i can only imagine the euphoria that would fill the air to see a sea of people stretching for miles in either direction. it's beautiful. i wish that their supreme leader would have taken another path. after all, the people only wanted another vote. a simple request. but in refusing, he ensured that things would never be the same in his country. the people were satisfied with the control they were given:their vote, but if that is counterfeit, then they have nothing. the next presidential vote will be meaningless. they will not even have the illusion of that small portion of freedom. their back is to the wall. i am full of dread.

now, for them, it is all or nothing.


--------------------

"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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Queen Bull
post Jun 19 2009, 07:44 PM
Post #31


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GT,
#1 Props on the political thread. I think its a super idea, especially given teh general importance of this particular administration in general.

#2 I just read that article that you posted about basiji hunting. I think that while it is a bit depressing that there even are basiji in the first place, ( i have a huge bleeding heart for the middle eastern population in general because of all the shit that seems to have been dumped on them, specifically the innocents), BUT that being said, I think it is a wonderful stride that the community youth is fighting back in the form of a militia, because i have always felt that a political reformation cannot happen unless the public is willing to take it from the government. I think that regardless this is a large step towards a healthy independence for Iran. I find it especially moving that young women are doing this, because it is time that the so-called " weaker sex" *scoff* took some action in that area of the world, and i hope that it can be an inspiring example to women all over the world.

sorry if any of that didnt make sense or was an opinion about something irrelevant in the situation. ha. i havent done much research on the subject. Like i said though, props on the thread, ill try and add my two cents regularly. smile.gif


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girltrouble
post Jun 19 2009, 02:10 PM
Post #32


new highs in personal lows daily!
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interesting article about how protesters have been getting proactive. there is, according to one source, a trend of basiji hunting. for those not paying attention, basiji are basically government hired thugs. they are given weapons and told to create mayhem, they are believed to be behind some of the killings of protesters. they mingle in the crowds of protesters, and try to agitate the crowds, run rampant at night causing explosions and vandalism. they have been "arresting" protesters, which amounts to making them disappear. there have been untold accounts of husbands and teenagers vanishing. the government provides no names. no information.

to counter that the passive, peaceful protesters have taken to a different tactic. hunting the hunters before they get a chance to hurt anyone. but this is the part i found interesting in the basiji hunting article:
QUOTE
These are not the students in the dorms, they're the street young -- they know the ways better than most thugs - and these young, a surprising number of them girls, are becoming more agile in their ways as each night passes on.


--------------------

"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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girltrouble
post Jun 19 2009, 11:05 AM
Post #33


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so i'm starting a political thread, and i should start by eating some crow. there were some busties who said a political thread following obama's election. i was one-- perhaps the main person who poo-poo'd it. i have strong opinions, as i'm sure most people round here know, but i was wrong. i think with the advent of polling sites, the voting site can stand on it's own, and it's issues are quite specific. the news site can cover other things like the recent killing of dr. tiller, and more local issues. having a thread about politics, pundits, and the way things work in this country could work....or not. the lounge has gotten a bit apolitical in the last few years, with a few exceptions (the election debates were wonderful), which is fine. i know that things ebb and flow, but this is, i hope an opportunity to change that.

for myself, i am going to try to be less...how do you say...asshole-ish... in sharing my opinions, and asking more questions. so if you see me being too belligerent drop me a pm. i'll try to ask questions instead of my usual habit of asserting what i think is going on.

*****************************************************


listening to reports on iran right now i came across this from huffington post, which is a great source on what is going on over there:
QUOTE
11:56 AM ET -- Are U.S. officials being too quiet? I wanted to reexamine this question in light of some new comments today. First, from Spencer Ackerman:
QUOTE

Hadi Ghaemi of the International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran said he has a hard time taking a strong stance one way or the other about the Berman-Pence Iran resolution currently being debated on the House floor. But it's wading awfully close into a "political act" for his taste "The text is not objectionable," Ghaemi told me. "But it will be seen as a political act" by the Iranian regime.

Second, via Andrew, comments by Amir Fakhravar, who has been "jailed and tortured in Iran for advocating democracy and speaking out against the Iranian government" and remains in touch with reformers:

QUOTE
"Right now, (Obama) could say, 'America stands for freedom and democracy, and as a United States president, I want to stand behind all of the freedom fighters in the world that are fighting peacefully to have democracy and freedom,'" Fakhravar said. "That's the American Dream. I don't know why he didn't say that. He said, 'this is none of our business.'"

The contrary argument, of course, is that if Obama or Congress speak out more aggressively, it will endanger the reformists in Iran and give ammunition to Khamenei and his allies.

Khamenei's speech today pushed me to reexamine this line of thinking. He didn't need an incendiary line from Obama to stir up anti-U.S. sentiments -- he just made one up. "It was said on behalf of the U.S. President that he was waiting for a day that people came out to streets," he claimed.

It seems my basic question is: Can Obama afford to be slightly more forward leaning on human rights concerns given that Khamenei's government is willing to fabricate statements to advance his own agenda?




--------------------

"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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