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> General Relationship/Dating Advice
sybarite
post May 3 2006, 05:42 AM
Post #1101


it's cards on the table time
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Posts: 1,993


I used to get around this by being a condom girl. Always with anyone new and often in relationships as well. I didn't always have sex with someone very early, but I liked the fact that if/when I did, I didn't have to worry about my safety, and in a way that extended to my emotional safety as well. It made things a little simpler. Some guys kicked up a fuss, and that was a litmus test for me: if they got pissy about using a condom then forget it. I mean, obviously it's nicer without, but if someone's getting pissy with me before we have sex I should get out of there anyway.

I also did the making out only thing and it did make me feel more emotionally in charge. And again, it weeds out the assholes pretty quickly. But, to be honest, it does genuinely confuse some guys as John says. Some guys feel by signing up for making out/staying over you're signing up for everything. This is obviously problematic politically (see the feminist outrage thread from yesterday) and I think saying up front what you're up for and what you're not is a good idea. IME there were guys who hadn't heard this before; some took it on board and I had the others close the door behind them.

I have to say I kind of see john's point on testing. I have always seen testing as =commitment, and sometimes I didn't want that with someone, I just wanted a lighter relationship possibly based around sex. Which condoms made easy.

My 2 cents. Stick to your guns.
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john
post May 3 2006, 05:12 AM
Post #1102


BUSTie
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Posts: 11


_jazmyn13: I have decided that I will not engage in anything more than handjobs and making out until I am in a committed relationship again and we've both gone to the clinic and shown the other person the results. Is this going to freak guys out?_

Yes and no. Men are not the open receptacles for viruses and bacteria that women are. Most often an infection is passed through a break in the skin, like a vagina. When men come, it leaves their body and enters yours, condoms nonwithstanding. We don't take you inside ourselves. We also don't undertand why you aren't having intercourse with us.

Just being honest here.

The testing thing is a commitment thing, and what you're asking for is the guy to commit to you before sex. Prudent, yes. Rational, yes. Emotional, not really. Passionate, no. An evolved and sensitive male will completely undertand and support your position, but even in this age of required safe sex it does take the fun out of things. Think of all the problems you have had in the past with getting them to wear condoms, and now you want them to be tested first?

Safe sex can be oe of the hottest things for the male because it's like having sex, only no actual sex was had. So he still wants it. Awesome! Do you allow digitalis? It's just as safe. What about frottage? You can keep the guy hooked and still be as safe as you want o be in your own mind, but understand that most men can find someone without your requirements.

Of course, if he really likes you he'll understand, and perhaps this is a very good requirement you have.
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maimy
post May 2 2006, 04:20 PM
Post #1103


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 696
From: Does it matter? This'll only be dingo'd again


La Sirena, think about the level of agreement you have with this guy. We often know, whether it's spelled out explicitly or not, what a partner is willing to accept and what a deal-breaker might be for the person we're with. Even if it's not negotiated point by point, we tend to communicate our attitudes.

So decide whether your overwhelming guilt is about his standards, or yours ... or whether it may even be attached to some issue not between you. Maybe you have questions about your use of alcohol, based on some past experience. It may not even be the 'cheating' that is eating at you most deeply. Think about what it is that is feeding this for you, and think about why you condemn yourself for it. Do you feel you betrayed your guy? Yourself? Some other standard you hold, and are shocked to have transgressed ... ?

Don't beat yourself up. Deal with what this situation has put before you. And keep talking. We're listening!
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jazmyn13
post May 2 2006, 02:37 PM
Post #1104


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 100
From: California


sweet, thanks guys.

You're totally right Maddy, no one should waste time with a guy who doesn't understand about trying to be safe.
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maddy29
post May 2 2006, 01:17 PM
Post #1105


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 934
From: Boston, MA


I totally agree with anarch and jazmyn13- I did this with my current boyfriend, nothing past kissing and hand stuff until I heard the nurse on his voicemail saying he was all clear. It's just not worth it to me to take the risk. And, if one of us has something, so much better to get it treated!

If anyone was pissed about that I'd say fuck off to them. If they can't respect my choices then we aren't going to have a relationship anyways. My boyfriend felt bad about it cause he thought it meant I thought he was dirty or something. I explained that wasn't it, but that I just didn't want to have to worry about it.
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anarch
post May 2 2006, 10:41 AM
Post #1106


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 873


jazmyn13: I have decided that I will not engage in anything more than handjobs and making out until I am in a committed relationship again and we've both gone to the clinic and shown the other person the results. Is this going to freak guys out?

sorry for showing up late. Just wanted to say that I made this decision too and it was a damn good one. I told guys early on (like, after it was clear we liked each other enough to think about sex, but before doing anything more than making out). The guys who were really into me were willing, and the guys who weren't, said so and we didn't waste each other's time anymore.

Only one guy was both willing and annoyed ("I feel like I'm filling out a checklist"), because he said he'd only had one gf before and it was monogamous, so he was "low-risk". Turned out he had chlamydia.
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yummymum
post May 2 2006, 10:16 AM
Post #1107


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 261
From: Midwest


Alright. I've went out on a date with this guy twice. He's a really good guy, whom I initially did not have a lot of physical attraction to. I mean, he's cute! But there may not be much chemistry or something. I thought I'd give it a try anyway, since he's very nice, professional, respectful of me, polite, and understanding that motherhood is my priority aka - I have a life outside of dating.

In addition to our two official dates, we've hung out casually with other people at a local bar a couple of times. And every time we see each other we have excellent continuous intellectual conversation. I mean, WE HAVE things to discuss. We've had similar situations in life. It all flows.

Anyway, for our third official date he has asked me to go home with him to a friend's party. It's a couple hours away. And he's made no mention of spending the night or anything, so I'll assume we will come straight back that evening. A couple of weeks ago, I was agreeable to it.
But since then, I've gotten cold feet. I mean, he calls me twice a day. I'm getting a little bit irritated by his constant hovering, in that sense. He's done some nice things for me - got me out of a speeding ticket, ordered me something from the store he owns, etc. I feel like he's trying really hard- almost too hard! HELL, we havent even kissed!!!! And really, I'm not really sure I have that physical desire.

I'm going to cut it short because I think you all can see where I'm going with this! I'm getting a little bit suffocated and need to get out of this prior committment of going up north with him. And I need to do it politely. I'm not good, in general, at breaking up or in this case- backing away. I dont want to hurt his feelings because it's obvious that he's into me. But I'm not really feeling the same urgency that he seems to be feeling. So I need to get out of it. How do I tell him that I've changed my mind about this weekend and still be polite and remain friends with him? I dont want to hurt his feelings. I'm just trying to trust my instincts here.

Geez... I'm really bad at this! He's already left me 2 voicemails and 3 emails today and it's barely lunchtime. Help!!







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jazmyn13
post May 1 2006, 04:23 PM
Post #1108


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 100
From: California


i think it depends where your personal boundaries (and your bf's boundaries) are with "cheating". You did, after all, walk away. Clothes stayed on, you didn't go anywhere with the person. I am a person who feels guilty leaving information out. A lie by omission is still a lie.

That said. Nothing happened, really. Drunk as you were, you had the presence of mind to walk away from the situation. If you think that your BF will find out, you should tell him before someone says "damn, you have one wild woman!" or something like that. If there are pictures or other evidence of what happened that night, those things will probably out at some point. If not...well, if you can live with yourself, why rock the boat? You stopped something, you didn't let it go far, you respected your relationship boundaries.

How angry would you be if you were him? would you want to know? imagine yourself in his shoes and make your decision.
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la_sirena
post May 1 2006, 01:21 PM
Post #1109


Newbie
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Posts: 6


Hi there,
I'm not new to this board, but I think my bf might read it so I'm going undercover. Thank you for reading this.

I've never really bought the excuse "I was drunk" before, for any sort of activity..but I'm afraid I've created a hypocrite of myself.

The other night I was at a huge party where I got completely blitzed. I don't drink too often, and I VERY rarely ever drink this much, but I was out of town and well, anything goes I guess. I blacked out for about 2 hours of the night-I have a few VERY vague, dark, blurry images of that period, and I have no idea what happened otherwise. I have no idea how we got home, how I got in bed, who took my shoes off-I even drunk dialed my bf at 4 a.m. and took my pill and I have no recollection of it. I know it was stupid-but as I said, I rarely do this and so I'm not quite sure what my limit is sometimes. I'm just relieved that we got home safely.

All I remember from one of those blurry images is giving some sloppy drunken chair massages, one of the guys I was giving it to was sitting on the floor between my legs, caressing them (my bare legs) VERY sensually. I remember thinking "oh god, I cannot be doing this-get up before it progresses". I want to say that I got up and walked away at that point, but the next morning, there was a large hickie on my neck. I also wish I could say that my girlfriend who I was with did it, but she swears she did not.

I know that no clothes came off. It just would've been too hard to get them off and back on-I was wearing tightish pants that could not have been removed without taking off my strappy high heels that also couldn't have come off easily-I have trouble getting them on even when I am sober. And I was wearing a tube top with a tube bra underneath, which was all fully and neatly intact the next morning. Hence, I know there was no sex- and I would've felt that the next morning for sure. And although I was completely trashed, something tells me that if anything more than a hickie had happened I would remember enough of it. I asked around the next day and no one remembered seeing anything.

So..I've come to the conclusion that this dude starting sucking on my neck and that's when I walked away (well, long enough for him to leave a mark-it wasn't that dark, just big). The more that I've thought about this, I've started to materialize a memory of me telling him "I'm sorry, I'm with someone, I have to go"-but you know how our psyche's can just make things up. But on the other hand, the fact that I know there was no sex, and no clothes came off, I feel I can safely conclude that this did happen (I am SO relieved that the guy let me go)

In the case that the hickie was still visible when I got back, I considered telling my bf that my girlfriend did it, and if the hickie was not visible, then I wouldn't say anything at all. I know he wouldn't mind if she had done it-he'd probably think it was hot.

Well I got lucky. It faded completely by the time I saw him, he didn't notice anything.

But I still feel guilty. Even though I didn't need to explain anything, or lie to him, it's the fact that I would have if I needed to. I've never lied to him-seriously. Also, this has never happened to me. Again, I've never really bought the excuse "I was drunk"-thinking that I can never be too drunk to remain faithful. But I know this isn't true now, at least as far as getting a hickie, so I take that back.

I know that no one can tell me how to feel, but I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on this-should I be feeling guilty? Should I tell him (I really, really don't want to)? Is it really excusable that I was drunk, and apparently nothing more than a little necking occured? I had to have walked away from it, and that gives me a little comfort.

I just don't know if I should move on and let it go, or if I deserve to feel some guilt in order to get over it, or if I should do the noble thing and tell him. I would so appreciate anyone's opinion on this-thanks so much!
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cloverbee
post Apr 29 2006, 11:44 PM
Post #1110


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 691
From: Northwest


yeah pepper. it's just hard to know where you stand in the beginning. that's what unnerves me. I guess that is life.
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pepper
post Apr 29 2006, 11:31 PM
Post #1111







fuckitty fuckitty fuck fuck fuck..
oh lordy, i am creating a world of trouble for myself. i just keep putting off having "the talk" with him and i am getting so incredible irritable about it all. argh.
i know what he will say when i tell him that i have had enough, he'll rant and rave and demand my energy in exactly the kind of way that made me not want him to be a part of my life in the first place.
gotta gotta toughen up, gotta get a back bone. this has Never been so much of a problem before but i've never had to deal with such a miserable, unreasonable fuckwit before either. i want out.

clover, why does one of you have to be in "control" over the other? can you imagine maybe just being on equal footing with him and both of you being respectful and caring of eachother's feelings? that's the ideal that i imagine...
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maimy
post Apr 29 2006, 07:16 AM
Post #1112


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 696
From: Does it matter? This'll only be dingo'd again


Clover, making the first move is the very essence of control. But if you don't want to, you don't want to. It just means you wait for the next guy who'll take that control.

At the end of the day, if you won't "put yourself out there", you're not out there. Consider why you have these rules, and what they mean to you, and think about whether it might be nice just to let control go out of the equation and see if something just happens naturally, without all the expectations and caveats. It could be more relaxing. *Smile*
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cloverbee
post Apr 28 2006, 08:54 PM
Post #1113


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 691
From: Northwest


I don't feel comfy making the first move. I like to have the upper hand in a relationship and by making the first move I would be losing control. I know that sounds so bad but I haven't dated in about five or six years and never sober so I probably am pathological about it. maybe I'll just let this one pass. Or maybe one day it will come to fruition w/out me having to put myself out there. fate.
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maimy
post Apr 28 2006, 07:47 PM
Post #1114


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 696
From: Does it matter? This'll only be dingo'd again


Clover, if you want him, you have to call. Why don't you want to make the first move?
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jazmyn13
post Apr 28 2006, 04:11 PM
Post #1115


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 100
From: California


he was trying to sell a car. flirting is a fringe benefit...call him if you're interested.
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cloverbee
post Apr 28 2006, 03:04 PM
Post #1116


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 691
From: Northwest


okay, so I was getting my car tuned up today at the shop when this cute car salesman approached me about a car. So we went for a test drive and he said he would get in touch if the right car came in for me. I gave him my numbers and I have his card. Now, I know he was interested and so was I. So what should I do? I don't want to call him first and it would be against company policy for him to call me other than for a car. what's going to happen here? am I going to pass this one up or is he going to make a move? anybody psychic?????
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pepper
post Apr 24 2006, 05:32 PM
Post #1117







hmm, best of intentions eh? that's a tricky business, i think. setting such strict standards of behavior, whenever i try that and fall off the wagon i fall far and Hard 'cause i've set the bar so high.
what i do is base my judgement on his sexual practices on what he's like with me. if he's really safety conscious and we've both been tested and are ok i feel alright about what happens between us. if he heads straight in there right off with no discussion and not a profelactic in sight, well, i guess i can be pretty sure what he's like about safe sex all around.
and hell girl, don't appologize, sex is a far sight better without a condom For Sure!
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jazmyn13
post Apr 24 2006, 02:42 PM
Post #1118


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 100
From: California


Hey all, let me know what you think.

Because of the incidence of sexually transmitted disease among young people and because YES you CAN get practically all of them via oral sex, I have decided that I will not engage in anything more than handjobs and making out until I am in a committed relationship again and we've both gone to the clinic and shown the other person the results. Is this going to freak guys out? I just think about all the diseases that people are carrying around nowadays - HIV, HPV, Herpese, Gonorrhea, Syphilis, etc. - and I get the heebie jeebies. Also, I have found out that I really REALLY do not like casual sex. Sex with someone I really care about vs. casual sex is like an Fudge covered chocolate brownie rasberry truffle and chocolate peanut butter Ice Cream sundae compared to tofutti. Why eat toffutti when i can save up for the sundae?

On the other hand, I don't want to get into a relationship with someone and find out they suck in bed. I was in a LT relationship where we were monogamous and didn't use condoms. It was fantastic, I never had a problem and I'm still clean (we were both faithful). I know what people say but the sex WAS better without condoms. Eventually, I would like to get back there with another special someone.

My question is, how/when do i explain about my standards during the dating game? Is this going to be an impossible standard to maintain? and don't worry, I WILL keep condoms around in case I have a lapse of will/judgement.
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venusindisguise
post Apr 24 2006, 08:53 AM
Post #1119


BUSTie
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Posts: 42


I just had the "...is this exclusive?" conversation a couple weeks. I felt it was a need-to-do thing as soon as we slept together,if I be sleeping with someone I want/need to know if they are didlling with anyone else- for health and heart reasons.

As for the labeling...I'm still living label-free, which is what I wanted when he wanted something more definite. Then I thought I wanted definition, and he didn't. Now we have some silly name..."optioning"...that somehow describes what we are doing. It is a total cop out, but it'll do for now. A more serious talk will have to be has when have somewhat-long distance between us (3hrs).

When is the 3rd date set for emtee?

As much as I don't like to label things...I still feel lost in the 'relationship'. Plus it is hard to explain to others.
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emtee
post Apr 24 2006, 12:16 AM
Post #1120


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 174
From: The Great White North


so, when is an appropriate time to have the, "Are you seeing anyone else, or is this exclusive?" conversation? Is that conversation really necessary? How do you establish whatever label you prefer to use? (Boyfriend, Partner, etc...)

I've got a third date scheduled with this guy, and I really like him, but I've never been in an exclusive relationship, so I don't know how these things really work.
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