[knorl05]

neurotic nelly: i will have to concur with your sentiments about dj biz. she's one smart cookie! always fascinating to read her posts as well. and my favorite area of the female form is the shoulders/décolleté.. especially with very pronounced collar bones. how about everyone else?

[neurotic.nelly]

Oh yeah, I have to say breasts of all shapes and sizes are beautiful to me.

It is not the size of our breasts that we should be worried about, but rather, we should be very concerned about the thing that says this breast is better than that. What ever you want to label it, that is what I am concerned with. DJ Monkey was really awesome and cerebral in her deconstruction of it. This is my beef. I love my breasts, they make me feel free, and light. I hate the thing that says that Vendetta should feel like less of a woman because of her sleek breast tissue.

My favorite part of the female form is not the breasts though, it is the curve of the back.

[Vendetta]

I've always been strongly confident and my sexiness came from that. And right now I'm still confident when I'm not being intimate. But take me off my padded bra and I'm left with nothing. That is sad.

[neurotic.nelly]

"And flashing one's boobies for "power" of some sort or other is really a surrender of true power."
This rings true for me, karategrrl.

Generally, what the larger male dominated media/society tells us about our sexual powers as women is inverted. It is not true. There is usually more than one truth, or the actual truth is the exact opposite. So, as a beautiful woman, hour glass figure, "a knockout", show us your beautiful body/breasts - and you'll have us drooling, you'll have us in the palm of your hand... all power is yours. It is not true, the power is fleeting, and men's interests are fickle and fleeting. All things change with time. Big breasts do not ensure a happy relationship or their duration.

The real power is in the mind. Sexiness starts there, too! Once you possess, this you can never lose it, this may not be *true*, but I just like the way it sounds . This is what I was telling Vendetta, which she probably knows, but I will say it again anyway, confidence is attractive and sexy.

I like being feminine but I do not like lording it over men, it feels oppressive, and if it is what the larger male dominated media/society is telling me to do, then it probably is a form of oppression.

Someone mentioned this earlier (i think), I have noticed that the larger breasts support group discussion is dominated by bra talk and such. More physical than psychological. I've noticed this too.

I hardly ever worry about bras. I do not care for bras, I can keep a bra forever. No problem finding bras over here!, I'm in and out of the store in no time, shopping for bras - ha! This is my joy as a small breasted woman!

One last thing, I *enjoy* talking about breasts and deconstructing them and our societies fascination with them.

[knorl05]

karategrrl: not prudish at all, educated and aware is more like it. yes celebration of the human form, the female form in particular, is one thing.. and exploiting it is quite another. you are right, small breasted, large breasted, doesnt really matter so much.... but there is a profound difference in the way men (and women) respond to larger breasts as opposed to an average size bust. an example to this: the other night i met a friend at the bar. he was sitting with some people i had not met, one of them being a woman with a shirt down to there and a push up bra that made her tatas the first thing you notice about her. the way the men reacted to her was in a flirty and jocular manner; the bartender brought attention to himself to say, "hey hey, i asked her if she likes milk" or something equally juvenile, followed by a round of chuckles. i mean. geez. i had to stop myself from rolling my eyes something hard, just so i wouldnt look bitter. but the whole situation was annoying. it's like, great she's got big boobs, get over it.
in the past i've had guys suggest to me that i get my tits done, with the only argument being to get more attention. but what type of attention would that be? is it really something i need in my life? would larger breasts create experiences in which men (people) respect me for my mind? in the end, we really have to determine what is important to us. again, large breasts, small breasts, it doesnt matter.. what matters is how we treat ourselves, and the dynamic we are looking to create between ourselves and those around us.

vendetta: neither karategrrl nor myself said that every "breasted woman" flashes her boobs and thinks she can have anything because of them. what we are saying is that some women use their bodies to avoid responsibility, which does nothing valuable for them in the long run.

[Vendetta]

I know lol I'm not making that assumption

[karategrrl]

Well, not every "breasted woman" flashes her boobs and thinks she can have anything because of them.

That isn't what I said.

[Vendetta]

Well, not every "breasted woman" flashes her boobs and thinks she can have anything because of them. Some of them are just normal people, like us, but with boobs. And they still have that "power" that we don't. I'm not saying we don't have power, we certainly have other "powers", but on intimacy they do have that one.

[karategrrl]

on the small vs large tip and who is taken more seriously, etc... i'd have to say that i think sometimes women with larger breasts >>whose values and priorities lie in finding a mate and being taken care of<< dont feel they need to try as hard. i think that, typically speaking, women with this outlook feel all they have to do is flash their boobies and they'll get whatever they want in life. some dont even care if they're taken seriously or considered intelligent.

That is a good point. Thre are women who use their breasts--or, should I say, others' obession with breasts--to get what they want. I read an account once of a woman talking about how, as early as her teen years, she realized that she could render boys speechless/paralyzed/mouth hanging open simply by lifting her shirt and showing her ample breasts. It is this capitalizing on men's love of breasts and female bodies that is, I believe, the reason why porn and strip clubs and the like remain a multibillion-dollar business. Many women capitalize on their bodies to make a sure, quick buck. I guess the mindset is, "I've got it, why not use it to get things if men will actually pay for it?" (payment in money/attention/gifts, etc.). This shortcut, however, is harmful in the long run--the flip side is not being taken seriously and perpetuating the "women as objects," "show me your boobs, I'll show you the bucks" cycle that I think all women end up paying for, at least indirectly.

I suppose many women don't care if they are taken seriously or not, if all they want is material things. However, I've been to strip clubs (no other way to see for myself what it was all about) and watched enough documentaries on stripping where in one part, the women are all proud and boasting of all the money they make, attention they get and how great it makes them feel, etc. But in quieter moments, the anger bubbles up and they are faced with the fact that they are taking off their clothes and showing their sacred parts to strangers, suppressing their intelligence, feelings, soul and all the things that make them unique human beings, and just presenting themselves as tits and ass on display. Add to that the act that most men will pay to see this but say they would never date or marry someone like that.

I once saw a photo someone had taken of a woman standing on a street in New Orleans (no offense to DJbiz-monkey!), about to lift her shirt. In a semicircle around her were a bunch of men whooping, hollering and egging her on, some with cameras poised. It was "the moment before the MOMENT," so to speak. The (male) photographer commented that he liked this photo because it showed the "power" she had over these men. I remember thinking, POWER? What kind of power is that? Once she lifted her shirt and got her beads, they'd all be off to the next woman. Strikes me as a very superficial and fleeting version of "power."

Sorry, I didn't mean to get on such a tangent. And I know many may not disagree with stripping or shirt-lifting or whatever. (And, I admit, in particualr situations, like with my husband or very close friends, or with my sis-in-law to prove a point that my breasts were smaller, I've flashed mine.) I'm not a prude. I like erotica and tasteful celebrations of the body as a beautiful and sensual art form, but I feel there is a fine line between that and objectification. And flashing one's boobies for "power" of some sort or other is really a surrender of true power.

[knorl05]

neurotic nelly: soo, i dont take compliments very well, but thank you. i equally appreciate your mind and perspective! and that last post, wow, excellent observations. with this, "moreover than the intellectual component, i enjoyed the camaraderie with boys/men." ... thats an opportunity that i think not too many women even allow themselves to explore given the specific and defined terms of what it means to be a girl. i think unfortunately some women miss out the chance to bond with guys because they arent willing to step too far out of the female box (no pun intended). i have noticed that a lot of young women who dont have much life experience, would rather be considered pretty than "real" (real, in the sense of being down to earth). not saying girly girls -or females who try to be- cant be real too... i'm just saying, when one's priority is to be [this], they usually arent as concerned with being [that]. dotdotdot. but, back to the the original topic of androgyny.. i believe this approach allows a woman to deconstruct and explore her own sexuality and limitations on terms which she is comfortable. i think that in the process of self discovery and liberation, experiences colored with ambiguity are almost entirely a necessity.

karategrrl: so so true. i think we forget sometimes the benefits of having smaller breasts, when we're looking at them by aesthetic value alone. i love that i'm able to go running, or dance all night, without the pain that larger breasts can cause. on the small vs large tip and who is taken more seriously, etc... i'd have to say that i think sometimes women with larger breasts >>whose values and priorities lie in finding a mate and being taken care of<< dont feel they need to try as hard. i think that, typically speaking, women with this outlook feel all they have to do is flash their boobies and they'll get whatever they want in life. some dont even care if they're taken seriously or considered intelligent. it's unfortunate that they'd deny themselves like that, but it is a choice, and i am guilty of making assumptions about them as well. not that i harshly judge anyone or put forth any sort of oppressive energy... but i can usually tell based on how a person carries her/himself, or presents her/himself, whether or not they'd be interested to engage in any sort of substantial exchange of ideas. but i digress.. and if i am wrong in that thought process, wonderful, i connected with someone new.

[karategrrl]

they allow me the rite to downplay my sexuality to such a degree that pure intellect is allowed to take its course. so many women complain that they are not taken seriously, and i wonder if the outward display of their breasts doesnt have something to do with that

Knorl, VERY well said. When I am feeling positive about my breasts, I feel somewhat liberated and yes, even empowered--empowered to be taken seriously. Which is not to say that large-breasted women can't be taken seriously or don't have any smarts, etc., because of course that is not true. But yes, I believe it can be a bit of a struggle for us ladies to be taken seriously sometimes, or for people to look past our femaleness or whatever. Having smaller breasts, I think, makes that easier.

Part of it may be that our outward appearance pretty much dictates that those (okay, men) who are more interested in substance will gravitate to us, and those more interested in "parts" will not. Of course, the downside is that large-breasted women often do have a hard time being taken seriously or people assuming they are dumb or sexpots just b/c they are large-breasted. As I type, of course, all of this makes me think of how stupid all these assumptions are that we make about people. And I admit, I can be just as guilty at making them!

I, too, was very much the tomboy growing up. I actually wished I were born a boy, as I was SO not into girly-girl stuff. So you can imagine how traumatic it was for me when I got my period. What allowed me to fly under the radar at that time were my small breasts, as I didn't have big breasts on my chest shouting to the world, "I've reached puberty!!!" I remember there was another girl in my sixth-grade class who had also gotten her period. She was large-chested and constantly harassed by the boys, while my period reamined my little secret.

On a side note, I went to a contact improvisation dance jam last night. It is at times like that I am grateful to be able to move so freely and unencumbered by any large, floppy body parts, i.e., breasts, and also, b/c contact improv can get touchy-feely, I can be reasonably sure the guys aren't staring at my chest or trying to cop a feel because, well, there's nothing much there to feel!

[neurotic.nelly]

knorl, i think that you expressed yourself very effectively. i have to agree with you about the freedom to explore gender roles. when i was in high school, i was in tomboy mode, and that carried over into college, and my early twenties. i explored the landscape of androgyny. moreover than the intellectual component, i enjoyed the camaraderie with boys/men. we could become friends without the pretense of sexuality, or sexualization of body parts. some of my strongest bonds with boys/men were made out of this exploration of androgyny. i think that gender roles are almost a fundamental identification for humans, it is ingrained from early domestication of the human being. Gender. It's where it starts. Limitation, which lends to the ideas that gender are concrete. Having smaller breasts makes crossing or walking this line easier, and gosh, it is fun and full of contradiction.

there is a dance that develops between two or more interacting people, gender in particular provides the framework for which this dance takes place, coloring the way we interact, murky... it may not really be us responding, but a conditioned response based on purely outer appearance. i hope that makes sense... i rewrote it a few times.

"which kind of allows a woman to create herself in her own image - hmm?"
i say more like, "mmmmmmm...yeah."

knorl05, i adore your mind, and the questions that arise from it. your old avatar didn't scare me, in fact.

[knorl05]

hello my fellow ><a cup busties. i've been slacking in this thread something heavy. my mind has been in a place that i didnt want my boobies to distract from.. sometimes i feel that thinking too much about my boobies, perpetuates my concern over them. resultingly, i am not up to date on the info/thoughts that have been expressed here, so i apologize for busting in without some sort of congruity to the ongoing convo.

however. i had a thought. i like the freedom my small breasts give me to explore gender roles. so many women complain that they are not taken seriously, and i wonder if the outward display of their breasts doesnt have something to do with that... that the image their boobies respresent to men, whether subconsciously or not, is one of gratification. not to say that our small breasts dont or cant serve the same function, however, ours are a bit more inconspicuous. so not only are we sexy to the men and women who find us physically attractive, but i think we are also allowed to be a bit more cerebral than our voluptuous counterparts. eh?

edit: did i express that effectively? i guess the point i was trying to make is that (especially in todays society) women are so highly sexualized, that to take a more androgynous approach, liberates one from falling into a particular category.. which kind of allows a woman to create herself in her own image - hmm?

[neurotic.nelly]

((((Vendetta))))) - I wish I had some words for you. ~wishing you wellness, and power vibes~

My breasts are small and supple and sweet. There is just enough. When I go outside, my breasts do not get as much attention that my other curves get. I see where the eyes go and it isn't my chest *hehehe* I could not imagine the attention that a size C cup and my other curves would get. I do not want that much attention from pervy men. Never have, never will. *sending loving vibes to my breasts*

(((starship))) The only people who need to point out other's "flaws" are people dealing with their own insecurities. I would not take it personal, easier said than done for sure.

karategrrl - that another awesome thing about small breasts, we can make low cuts look classy as opposed to trashy. Big ups for small boobies.

[karategrrl]

So here we were, at lunch, arguing again for the same issue... and I tell him for the 100th time that I don't feel sexy around him anymore and I'm afraid I never will. So, he's right that he can't do nothing about it now and I shouldn't keep making his life miserable because of that but.. I'm just so sad. It's like something has been ripped off from me. I can't help to feel inadequate and obsess over his boob thing when we're intimate and that stops me from being sexual. What would you girls do? Do you think you could just forget and be yourselves again? I know I should and can't tell why I can't. How can I be able to just don't give a fuck about what he thinks and likes and have said and get myself out of this miserable state? Is it possible that we can be happy again? I get so sad when I think about his boob thing that all I can do is to cry... My female pride is painfully hurt.

(((vendetta))

Breasts don't start fights. People do. Of course you are having trouble feeling sexy! Who wouldn't, if the person they love expressed--many times--a preference or liking for something completely different. It's impossible to forget--once something is said, it's said, and there's no taking it back.

Sounds like you are beating yourself up for not being able to "get over" what he has heaped on you. Don't make yourself feel worse by doing that. It sounds like he was insensitive and-whether or not he meant it--he hurt you badly. In situations like this, I honestly don't know what's worse--to hurt someone intentionally or to be so clueless and insensitive as to do something that hurts someone unintentionally.

There's nothing wrong with you, grrl. If it makes you feel any better, my husband has had episodes of flirting that hurt me unbelievably deeply. What hurt me even more is his inability to acknowledge any wrongdoing or even acknowledge that that was what he was doing--he wouldn't even call it "flirting"--he called it "a way of interacting." That shit made me feel like absolute crap, eroded my trust in him and put us in therapy.

I do have a point here...this shit IS big stuff you are dealing with. Some may say they were "just words" or "get over it" or blah blah blah, but it runs deeper than that. Believe me, I know.

Sounds like he has damaged your trust and your self-esteem. As much as we might all like to believe our self-esteem is indestructible, I know mine has taken huge blows when hubby flirted (no matter what he called it). There's nothing wrong with you, honey--you're just human--and hurting. Given your situation, it sounds like you have every right to be upset. I wold be, too! (((HUGS)))

[Vendetta]

So here we were, at lunch, arguing again for the same issue... and I tell him for the 100th time that I don't feel sexy around him anymore and I'm afraid I never will. So, he's right that he can't do nothing about it now and I shouldn't keep making his life miserable because of that but.. I'm just so sad. It's like something has been ripped off from me. I can't help to feel inadequate and obsess over his boob thing when we're intimate and that stops me from being sexual. What would you girls do? Do you think you could just forget and be yourselves again? I know I should and can't tell why I can't. How can I be able to just don't give a fuck about what he thinks and likes and have said and get myself out of this miserable state? Is it possible that we can be happy again? I get so sad when I think about his boob thing that all I can do is to cry... My female pride is painfully hurt.

[crinoline]

V- sorry for the delayed post. Good for you!! It's awesome that you are taking steps to put yourself back where you belong, in love with yourself! You rock!!
(((V)))

Karate- I wear low cut (to beneath my sternum) tops all the time, because I have NO cleavage, so i use my collarbones / sternum as my cleavage, which the boy finds just as sexy!

(((starship))) - people can suck, but your boy is awesome!

[karategrrl]

Came across this recently and had to post: http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01couvpb88qy0.jpg
Shes one of Jane Birkin's daughters/charlotte gainsbourg's half sister (talk about a whole family of small breasted icons!) on the cover of Playboy France..
more pics here:
http://hotbisexualmodel.blogspot.com/2008/...t-yet-dead.html
love it!

Someone else posted these not too long ago, but they are so great, I don't mind the reminder!

On a side note: Today I'm wearing a pretty low-cut dress (down to that little notch on my breastbone) and I almost didn't wear it, thinking it was too low-cut for work, but then I realized on me it's really not that sexualized and therefore i can get away with. I mentioned this to a busty co-worker (like, "Does this look okay??") and she told me she'd look "like a prostitute" in a dress like mine, with her "breast-uh-siz" (ha) hanging all out. I'm counting my blessings when I can!!!

[greenbean]

Came across this recently and had to post: http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01couvpb88qy0.jpg
Shes one of Jane Birkin's daughters/charlotte gainsbourg's half sister (talk about a whole family of small breasted icons!) on the cover of Playboy France..
more pics here:
http://hotbisexualmodel.blogspot.com/2008/...t-yet-dead.html
love it!

[starship]

why do people thinnk its ok to just point out that im flat chested and remark on my body.grrr.I need to become more resilliant to insensitive comments or im never going to get over this boob issue

i found myself cringing slightly when my bf touched me the other day.total mood killer

not sure why because he always tries to reassure me. He called me a trophy gf..i said i was more like the booby prize, without the booby...he said i was the booty prize and thats good enough for him:)

I know large breasts have problems too but ive noticed that the large breast forum tends to deal more with practicalities whereas our problems revolve around the psychological, not physical, difficulties

((Vendetta))