[jewelscando]

Look Lori, I've been on the board for going on two years now. WE HAVE AN ABUNDANCE of people coming on, spamming, and starting shit for all that time.

Like I said, I wasn't trying to start anything by asking you that question. I was just wondering? You are extremely knowlegable in the things you say, WHICH WAS A COMPLIMENT, but, you didn't take it that way. Either way I could care less.

As for me. I know I'm a bitch, I'll admit it. And there's days that I just don't feel like answering the same questions over and over and over again, so I will say READ THE FRICKEN BOARD. Unlike you, I don't have time to respond to EVERY message that is put on here, nor do I want to have time to answer every question. B.V. is a pain in my life. Not something that gives me joy. I'm on this board to find answers. Just like we all are. And for a place to vent, just like we all are.

IF I'VE EVER COME OFF CONDESENDING, THEN I APOLOGIZE to those who feel that way.

BVGIRL - I insert this at night, right before I go to bed. When I get up in the morning, it does not come running out, if that's what you are asking. NOTHING LIKE THE BORIC ACID. But eventually sometime throughout the day, you might get a little discharge, but nothing major. Not even enough to wear a pantyliner.

THANKS SASSY!

Good luck everyone...

[sassy]

Lori--I just want to say a little something to defend jewels. While I haven't posted lately, jewels and I have been on here since this thread was only about 2 pages. I think we, and some others, have both developed a fair amount of skepticism to anyone on here that is new. Since we've been here there has been at least one or two run-ins with people promoting products and not really suffering from BV, and there was one case where a holistic doctor type person posted CONSTANTLY on here and didn't even have BV or really know how to treat it. There are other girls who post clearly incorrect information and then people who refuse to somewhat read the thread before posting and therefore repeat a lot of information over and over again. I also think she jokes around a lot, which is hard to interpret on a message board, and you took her jokes out of context in one of your recent posts. Ultimately, we are on the right track with the BV blog so hopefully we can eliminate a lot of these problems. We are all trying to find an answer and SHOULD be on eachother's side.

[lori]

Lori, Yes that is the same stuff I got. It was kept in the cooler at my health food store. I just recently started taking it. I will let everyone know how it is going. I'm on my period right now. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks arj75. Good luck and keep us updated.

[bvgirl]

Oh by the way, when you insert the flagyl pill does it dissolve quickly inside or does it take time?

[bvgirl]

Here is what I did the first time. Inserted 1 500mg at night. Inserted a second one the next night, had sex the third night, inserted another one the following night, AND MY VAGINA ALMOST STARTED ON FIRE!!!!!! So, here is what I suggest you do, because it's what I did. I inserted 1 500 mg first night, then another one the second night. Then left it alone. About 2 days later, I do the whiff test...and it was gone. After that, I could have sex. So, I would actually wait at least 2 days after the last dose, just to be on the safe side. Another conclusion, I don't have sex very often any more, because boyfriend and I are on again off again, so when I do have sex, I use a flagyl the following evening. If you are having sex more often, you might want to becarefull with that, only because too much use of it, will cause a yeast infection. Nothing that an over the counter Monistat won't help with, but, still, you know yeast infections, they are not fun!!

I can't remember where I bought it, because it's been so long, but here's a website I have in my favorites.

http://www.horizondrugs.com/flagyl.html

If this doesn't work, just type in Buy Flagyl Online. And you should find it!! Please let me know how it works for you!!!

I BUY IT ONLINE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE INSURANCE. SO I DON'T WANT TO PAY AT THE DOCTOR AND AT THE PHARMACY. AND NO, IT'S NOT $100, I THINK IT COST ME $35?? CAN'T REMEMBER

Thank you for responding so quickly.. I will bookmark the website. Thanks

[arj75]

Lori, Yes that is the same stuff I got. It was kept in the cooler at my health food store. I just recently started taking it. I will let everyone know how it is going. I'm on my period right now. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[lori]

LORI - ARE YOU A DOCTOR?? Because I have to agree a bit with Morpia. You do come across a bit condensending.

That is hilarious coming from you Jewels!

Let's see, you recently told someone "I don't want to hear about your drug problems!" And then you told off another newbie, "Read the whole thread before you ask questions!" And then you told another user, "Your suggestion is bad!"

And you accuse me of being condescending?

Like, you know more then we do?? PLEASE DON'T START ANY SHIT WITH THIS, I was just making an observation. I was shocked when I came on tonight and how many posts we had today. DOESN'T ANYBODY FRICKEN WORK??? hahahahah.

We got a bunch of newbies today, and at least one had an awesome suggestion that really might help someone out there.(Thanks SFgirl!) I happen to think that is great. Why do you have a problem with that?

It would be nice if YOU would NOT try to start shit, while you are asking people to not start shit ...

Before you know it, you'll be right up with us, bitching at the new comers!!!

I just don't understand why anyone wants to bitch at newcomers.

[jewelscando]

MORPHIA...So glad to see you back!! I wanted to apologize for coming on so strong...however, we all are pretty stressed out with this shit. For most of us, we've been on this board, dealing with it for years, and when someone new comes in, it's like "Well, welcome to our fricken world"!

Don't stress girl. That's all I can tell you. I know you have a hard time with it, but it really isn't helping your situation. There is HOPE at the end of the fish heads!! Just be patient. Before you know it, you'll be right up with us, bitching at the new comers!!!

LORI - ARE YOU A DOCTOR?? Because I have to agree a bit with Morpia. You do come across a bit condensending. Like, you know more then we do?? PLEASE DON'T START ANY SHIT WITH THIS, I was just making an observation. I was shocked when I came on tonight and how many posts we had today. DOESN'T ANYBODY FRICKEN WORK??? hahahahah.

[lori]

Especially since its next to impossible to recolonize ANYTHING with the good, friendly bacteria.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Bacteria is a living organism and it reproduces. Doesn't happen fast enough, unfortunately, but it's not impossible. Once again, I think probiotics is the best solution we've got to help it along.

While you SEEM harsh, what you've said is actually more comforting than anything. Thank you.

You're welcome. Consider it a slap across your face, because GIRL. YOU. WERE. FREAKING. OUT.

But seriously, aren't you going to your doctor this week? I'm sorry you're feeling pain, but I already gave you a suggestion for that, and you won't do it. So ... here's what I think you should do. STOP THINKING ABOUT YOUR VAGINA. I know it's hard because it's burning and everything, but just don't think about it before the appointment. The more you think about it, the more you obsess, and the more you go on crazy freak-outs. It's totally useless, because there's nothing you can do until you see your doctor.

Think about shopping. Or watch a good movie. Give yourself a makeover. I don't know what relaxes you, but you know what I mean.

If you absolutely can't stop thinking about it, as bvgirl suggested, type out all your concerns and questions so you can bring it with you when you go to your dr's appointment.

[Morphia]

Clindesse is a vaginal cream. And if you were in the same kind of pain that I'm in most of the time you'd be afraid too. That Clindesse probably wiped out what little lactobacilli I had left in my vagina after all that Augmentin and Amoxicillin I took. So, yes. I do think this is something to be freaked out about. Especially since its next to impossible to recolonize ANYTHING with the good, friendly bacteria. I'm sure you don't mean to be harsh, but I feel like you're belittling my fear. This is why I hate forums. Its impossible to tell real emotion. Just know that I'm not jumping on you. While you SEEM harsh, what you've said is actually more comforting than anything. Thank you. And I know I'm probably going over board. But if I didn't come here and go over the top and let it all out, I'd empty my bank account on online purchases. lol. I've already scarfed down an ass load of sugar (which only made me feel like shit.) I have no coping skills.

[lori]

SFgirl -

Those symptoms (IBS and BV) were comorbid. My doctor felt the overgrowth of bacteria triggered IBS.

Well, that's definitely a new one.

In any case, I too believe probiotics are probably the best solution - both for the intestine troubles and the recurrent BV. Where do you buy your Bio-K?

Also, can you point me to the Bio-K site where it says that the live bacteria (68%?) ends up in the vaginal tract? I've been reading it, but just can't find it. (All they talk about are the intestines.)

[lori]

Ok, I know I said I wasn't coming back but I can't leave. I'm terrified right now.

Welcome back, Morphia. You need to calm down!

The vaginosis.com dude (I've read that site before) is just ONE source. And he sells shit on his site, so he comes off to me like a huckster, and I find some of his claims dubious.

And besides, all he's saying is that one-dose treatments like Clindesse is not as effective. As far as the resistant bacteria - it just means you may be resistant to future clindamycin treatment.

Clindamycin is basically a stronger, broad spectrum antibiotic which sort of kills everything in sight, which is why flagyl is the first line of defense for BV. So there are more antibiotic-associated side effects with clindamycin, such as the C. difficile infection (which I talked about already on this page). A bad C. difficile infection makes you poop blood and even kill you, but it is treatable, too. So if you don't have it, you will be fine.

How many times have you used Clindesse? Unless you used it twice in 90 days (according to this guy), you probably have nothing to worry about. Your body isn't screwed up forever, so you need to calm down.

So next time, read the whole site (vaginosis.com) before freaking out. Yes, he said Clindesse shouldn't be prescribed, and he even bolded it. But if you read through the specific reasons, you'll see that it's NO BIG DEAL:

- may not be as effective (yes, this sucks, but it's not the worst thing in the world)
- may cause more side effects (again, if you're not pooping blood, you're probably going to live)
- may cause resistance (yes, this isn't good, but you've only used it once, in one-dosage form, it probably cleared your system long ago; not the end of the world)

Is this anything to hyperventilate about? A reason to be "terrified?" No, it's really not.

[Morphia]

Ok, I know I said I wasn't coming back but I can't leave. I'm terrified right now. I found this at the vaginosis site: "Clindesse should not be prescibed for this condition". I also read somewhere else on the site that it shouldn't be prescribed for a first time diagnosis. Well my doctor prescribed it to me for my first time diagnosis! I'm just scared and trying to hold back tears as I think about the fact that I could have had this beat with Flagyl the first time around and I'm so angry with my doctor. He's supposed to be one of the best where I live. I may not be here right now if it weren't for that God forsaken Clindesse! I just want to go cry myself to to sleep and not wake up until my doctors appointment Friday. I know that some of you here are already sick of me but I can't leave yet. I need you all. Especially now. I'm just too damn scared that I'm going to burn in the bv fires of hell (literally) forever because of that shit. And I wouldn't be so damn scared if this infection didn't cause me pain. I can always feel it. Sometimes I wish I just had the smell and no pain. But instead I have pain and no smell. And I do tell myself its better that I don't have both. But I still don't want this burning. I just need to shut the fuck up and cry it out. I'm hysterical right now and need to go before I stop making sense.

[SFgirl]

Hi Lori,
Thanks for the info! The IBS symptoms didn't occur after taking the antibiotics. Thus, the stomach symptoms weren't caused by the antibiotics. Those symptoms (IBS and BV) were comorbid. My doctor felt the overgrowth of bacteria triggered IBS. The antibiotics relieved both the BV symptoms and IBS. When both flared up again after finishing a course of antibiotics, I began taking Bio-K which cleared both.
Sfgirl

[lori]

The live bacteria in Bio-K, when taken orally, makes its way down to the vaginal area. As I recall (you may want to double check this on Bio-K's web site), 68 percent of the live bacteria makes it way down to the vaginal area.

Hey SFgirl. I've been reading the bio-K site, and I don't see anything there about this. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks.

http://www.biokplus.com/Contenu.aspx?nav_i...9&lang_id=A

Arj75, is this the Ultimate Flora that you're taking?

http://www.renewlife.com/flowmeter.cfm?meter=438

[lori]

Lori,

If you have time..(List the product that I found recently too...Ultimate Flora (Probiotic). $35.99.. What is the cost of that fem stuff?
I also am going to start eating Dannon Activia Yogurt twice a day. Before this BV, I have only had a few yeast infections in my life, and had cured them by eating yogurt and just using creams to relieve the burning and itching caused from the yeast....

Hey arj75! Thanks, I will add it! (Fem-dophilus costs $24 at Whole Foods [fridge] and about $15 online [vitacost.com, etc, not in fridge] - for 30 caps)

The BV triggered Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) symtoms. After a trip to the doctor, and several tests to rule out other disorders, the doctor concluded the same -- that BV had triggered IBS-like symtoms. I was given Flagyl which helped to relieve symptoms, including the stomach pain and constipation, and recovered two weeks later.

Hello SFgirl, welcome to the board! I don't think the BV triggered your IBS-like symptoms, it was probably the antibiotics. The same thing happened to me after taking clindamycin (oral) - it kills the "good" bacteria in your gut, and disturbs the balance. The concept is similar to how BV occurs, but it is probably not directly caused by BV.

It sounds like you may have had a Clostridium difficile infection - an overgrowth of this bacteria is a known side effect of clindamycin. It makes sense because taking metronidazole relieved your symptoms - metronidazole kills the C. difficile bacteria. (Confusing, huh?)

Just another way BV can screw up your life. *sigh*

But I'm glad you discovered that probiotics helped you! I used Culturelle, and that really helped with my symptoms. I've also heard good things about Activia yogurt. But maybe I'll try Bio-K next time. I like that it's in liquid form. It's very pricey, but most good probiotics seem to be.

Thanks for telling us that inserting Bio-K vaginally is helping you.

Anyway, I highly recommend that if you ever take antibiotics again for any reason, make sure you let your doctor know you've had intestinal troubles. And while taking the antibiotics, make sure you're also taking Bio-K and keep an eye on your symptoms.

I am never sure what probiotic to use, because I have taken them before, and they state they are for digestive health. I am not sure if they work on vaginal flora. They dont seem to ever help when I take them orally. But thanks, and I will try it. I am willing to try ANYTHING.

Hello babs, welcome to the board! Fem-dophilus is a product specifically designed for vaginal health. You take it orally. I've been taking it for over 2 months now, and so far so good.

(Another product is Gy-Natren. This stuff is horrible and caused irritation and a lot of problems. Not recommended.)

Hi everyone, I just found out I have that same problem BV. Im scared cause as soon as I found out I went online and research as it was my thesis in college. I found interesting facts, hiwever i also found out of the negative consequences. I heard that BV can lead to pelvic inflamatory disease which causes a woman to be sterile.

Hello kittypassion, welcome to the board! I have the same fear. I had undiagnosed BV for at least 3 years - went to the gyno a bunch of times, but all they did was test for STD's and didn't treat my BV. I had a bunch of pap tests, too, and the report always read - "inflammation" and "acute cervicitis." (Cervicitis = inflammation of cervix) Not to mention I was in pain! But they did NOTHING!

I have the very same fear - that during that time of retarded doctors, my BV may have advanced into my upper genital tract and fucked with my reproductive organs. I have anxiety attacks and nightmares about it.

*deep breath*

Anyway, I've read up a lot about this online. BV does increase your chance of getting PID in conjunction with other factors - gonorrhea, chlamydia, abortion or other surgery/procedure, etc. Since I haven't dealt with any of these, I've been trying to figure out if BV alone can cause PID - and different sources will tell you different things. Some sources say it is possible (because a small percentage women who have had PID had BV, but did not also have gonorrhea/chlamydia/procedures, etc).

In any case, it is relatively rare. The bad news for me is that I have had cervicitis which went away after my BV was treated. Cervicitis is one of the main symptoms of PID. And this is what makes me wake up in the middle of the night crying. The good news for me is that it is kind of rare. I have had a trans-vaginal ultrasound, which showed that they didn't see anything really messed up - but that's just a preliminary diagnosis for PID, so they can't be sure. But at least my ultrasound went well, so I'm just going to think positive and hope for the best.

So don't worry, kittypassion. You probably didn't have BV as long as I have without treatment, so it's very unlikely that you got PID also. But here's what you need to do. You need to make sure you're under the care of a doctor. (Hopefully none of them are as retarded as mine were.) Take ORAL antibiotics (rather than the vaginal gel/cream, which target the lower genital tract), and talk to him/her about your upper genital tract concerns. Also make sure that you are having safe sex and protecting yourself from STD's - because those WILL fuck with your reproductive organs for sure!

*Just want to remind everyone that I'm working on a blog on this site - just a compendium of suggestions from this thread. I thought it would be a good reference:

http://www.bust.com/lounge/index.php?autom...;blogid=11&

Please help me think of a name for the blog!

[SFgirl]

Hi Babs,
I've taken probiotics in the past, such as freeze-dried capsules, and have inserted plain yogurt vaginally. While that approach was effective in that it reduced my symptoms, it didn't clear the BV. Due to the way freeze-dried probiotics are processed and transported, I question whether they have the viable number of friendly bacteria needed to clear BV (at least my BV!). Bio-K, which is a "live" liquid probiotic, guarantees a minimum of 50 billion live bacteria per 3.5 ounce container. If we were to compare Bio-K to yogurt, you would need 100 3.5 ounce servings of yogurt to get the same amount of live bacteria.

Moving on to your questions:
"Is it a thin liquid? Is it important to try to keep the liquid in the vaginal canal for a while, or just flush it up there?"
The non-dairy formula is not as thick as yogurt. It has the consistency of kefir. I have one container set aside in the fridge for vaginal use and I use a syringe. I use it at night and I fill the entire syringe. I use my muscles to hold the liquid inside the vaginal canal for a few minutes. If I'm laying down, it stays put pretty well during sleep but I do sleep with a towel under me on the nights that I insert Bio-K. I haven't tried douching with it, but that approach may be worth exploring.

"And you say you use a cheaper probiotic now orally but are you still using the Bio-K liquid vaginally 3x week?"
Well, yes and more. I still take Bio-K orally (one container per day). I split the Bio-K oral dose (one container of liquid probiotic) in half and use part 1 in the morning, and part 2 in the evening. I cut the dose to one Bio-K container per day when my BV symptoms cleared completely. Prior to symptoms clearing, I drank two containers per day. In between the morning and evening Bio-K dose, I take 2 freeze-dried probiotic capsules. The capsules I have are the kind that have to be stored in the fridge. I insert Bio-K vaginally 3 times per week. I use the non-dairy formula for vaginal use because I prefer the non-dairy product. I imagine the dairy product would work just as well.

The live bacteria in Bio-K, when taken orally, makes its way down to the vaginal area. As I recall (you may want to double check this on Bio-K's web site), 68 percent of the live bacteria makes it way down to the vaginal area. I give that number an extra boost by inserting it vaginally. The "friendly" bacteria populate and outnumber the "bad" bacteria in the vaginal area and have thus cleared my symptoms.

I've tried everything over the years and Bio-K is the only thing that kicked my BV (and tummy pain). I would suggest looking at Bio-K's web site for clinical studies.

Hope this helps.

Best,
SFgirl

[arj75]

Good evening everyone,

I found a site that a doctor had listed on different prescriptions and home remendies to maintain BV. I believe it listed some medicines that maybe you could take as well BABS Also, maybe I'm just seeing things, but it looked as if he was offering to answer any questions or concerns that we may have, and he listed his info at the site. www.vaginosis.com

Good Night everyone.

Glad your feeling better ilovehim!

[babs]

SFgirl- Thanks for sharing your experiences with BV. I would like to ask you a few things. You use liquid Bio-K orally twice daily, and inserted vaginally everyday for a week. Is it a thin liquid? Is it important to try to keep the liquid in the vaginal canal for a while, or just flush it up there? And you say you use a cheaper probiotic now orally but are you still using the Bio-K liquid vaginally 3x week? I am never sure what probiotic to use, because I have taken them before, and they state they are for digestive health. I am not sure if they work on vaginal flora. They dont seem to ever help when I take them orally. But thanks, and I will try it. I am willing to try ANYTHING.

[SFgirl]

I recently had an intense and painful reaction to Bacterial Vaginosis and was ill for about three weeks. I've had recurring BV since my early 20's. I'm now in my 40's. While the BV has been ever present over the last 20 years, it has never caused severe stomach pain until recently. In the past I've taken antibiotics which has resolved the symptoms, albeit temporarily. Symptoms usually returned after an antibiotic course within 2 months. My most recent experience with BV caused severe stomach pain, cramping, and constipation. The BV triggered Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) symtoms. After a trip to the doctor, and several tests to rule out other disorders, the doctor concluded the same -- that BV had triggered IBS-like symtoms. I was given Flagyl which helped to relieve symptoms, including the stomach pain and constipation, and recovered two weeks later. However, much to my dismay, the BV returned during the third week of my recovery and the symptoms, to include stomach pain, began to return. I've held it in check and have overcome the symptoms using probiotics and this approach has been more effective for me than antibiotic treatment. The probiotic I used was liquid Bio-K. I used Bio-K, orally, twice daily for about a month. In addition, I inserted Bio-K vaginally once daily for 1 week. Bio-K reduced BV and my stomach symptoms in 3 days. After 1 week, the symptoms were gone. I now drink Bio-K once daily and insert Bio-K vaginally 3 times per week for maintenance. Since the product is expensive (about $5 per container), I'm supplementing my daily Bio-K intake with less expensive probiotic capsules to keep my healthy bacterial levels up. Bio-K can be purchased at most health food stores. I like the non-dairy formula (it tastes like mango) but have used the dairy formula with success. I hope this helps a fellow BV sufferer. -- SFgirl.