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> What the F@%&?! And more feminist outrage...
katiebelle2882
post Oct 2 2006, 07:54 PM
Post #1281


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its in texas not denver, which isnt surprising really considering that you usually get the lowest of the low and the dumbest of the dumbest from TX. ahem george bush.


i am just kidding but seriously, how bad does this society have to get before people wake up and realize they are living in Lois Lowry's The Giver or The Handmaids Tale?


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lilacwine13
post Oct 2 2006, 07:44 PM
Post #1282


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That's rather ridiculous and sad.

Do those parents get as upset when their children see some scantily clad person on TV or in a magazine, or is that just part of the culture, while art is different?


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crazyoldcatlady
post Oct 2 2006, 06:52 PM
Post #1283


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re: xexyz's link


sigh.

is there nothing sacred anymore?
at which point does the cultutre hit right rock bottom and start pulling itself up?
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xexyz
post Oct 2 2006, 06:38 PM
Post #1284


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Wow, fuck the Dever School district for this kind of bullshit:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/education/...513/detail.html
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venetia
post Sep 29 2006, 10:04 PM
Post #1285


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Thingsarenice, I think you're getting me mixed up with another poster? I didn't post that article, Zora did. And yes we do get "House" here in New Zealand too, free to air, right on prime time on one of our two biggest channels - I've seen a fair bit of it one way or another. In fact when we first got it I hoped it might be cool because I liked Hugh Laurie from some of the British comedy he was in.

The question I was asking was in response to the responses to Zora's post.

(Totally off topic but I finally found out why we have so many big US cable shows, Fox etc on our free to air channels - for some reason nz gets foriegn drama sold to us very cheaply - at sometimes 1/100th of the cost that a larger country would be asked to pay for the same show!! Weird ae?)
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chachaheels
post Sep 29 2006, 08:43 PM
Post #1286


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QUOTE
And House's use of offensive language is more of a pissing-people-off thing than a bigotry thing. I doubt we'll see him at a Klan meeting in any future episodes, but he's going to keep calling his African American staff member a "spade" because he likes to piss people off.


Just to make another example:
This staff member isn't really a colleague--he's a subordinate. That "staff member" answers to House. There is a political statement in a white man in a position of power calling one of his underlings, who happens to be African American, a "spade". It's covered up by an occasional witty remark, a handsome face, and a scenario where everyone tolerates the behaviour even though it's reprehensible...but to the spectator watching this show, what can we make of something like this other than it's an overtly racist act, not an expression of co-worker affection?

This is what I mean by feeling manipulated by this character and this show. It's not admirable behaviour, and I have a hard time differentiating it from what might take place at a Klan meeting, but we're always seeing House emerge heroically, and vindicated every episode anyway, like his being right makes it all okay.


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thingsarenice
post Sep 29 2006, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE
re:House - those of you who like it, how do you figure that his hating EVERYONE somehow means to you that he is NOT hating, say, intersexed people???


Venetia, I can't speak for anyone else, I was just trying to explain that his attitude towards the intersexed girl was not the fault of any prejudices the writers of the show might have but was rather just something the character does. The article you posted made it sound like this was the only offensive thing that was ever said by him on the show, but he says at least eight offensive things in every episode. It doesn't mean he wasn't hating on intersexed people, it just means that the show doesn't target intersexed people alone. Since you'd never seen the show and the article was pretty inflammatory I just wanted you to realize what it's about. And House's use of offensive language is more of a pissing-people-off thing than a bigotry thing. I doubt we'll see him at a Klan meeting in any future episodes, but he's going to keep calling his African American staff member a "spade" because he likes to piss people off.

Personally, I think if you can't laugh at something horrible portrayed in a humorous way, you'll go crazy. I mean, how often do people laugh at good things anyway? And I mean really laugh; I tend to giggle a little when I see a puppy chase it's tail or something, but that's my problem.
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chachaheels
post Sep 29 2006, 07:59 PM
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I think laughing at the church and its crimes isn't about laughing at the victims so much as it is taking a huge amount of undeserved, unquestioned power away from the church. And I agree with Mandolyn that bigots (and I'm including House in this category) are being held up and exposed for their hatred--they are being made into a spectacle of ridicule. Kinda like the church in those jokes.

The House character is played by an extremely attractive man who can be witty--so the characterization is somewhat manipulative, I think. We're interested in him, but he is a pathetic and despicably abusive individual, with an awful lot of power which is undeserved, and obviously acquired through some highly orchestrated bullying. Kinda like the church in those jokes.

Anyway, that manipulation heightens anoushh's conclusion about the personal being political--in one way--for me. No one is cut and dry, black and white simple: there is an element of humanity which draws us in about this character, even though he is inherently awful (I mean, the transgressions can be counted--and he does not, ever, "speak for me"; House is always speaking out of a weakness of character). I feel like we're being coerced into accepting his always transgressive behaviour because he's always shown to be "right", despite the fact that he feels like he has supreme power over the characters who are supposed to be in his care. How can you ignore the politics in that? It's a great idea to often refrain from saying what's on your mind out loud, just so we can live together in relative peace.

No one can choose not to be political. You're political whether you like it or not, whether you're aware of it or not, and the politics permeate every level of being alive, from the bedroom to the office to the cafe to the street to the TV set and the movie theatre. That's why that idea of the personal being political and vice versa has held for so long--it's so true.


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katiebelle2882
post Sep 29 2006, 07:23 PM
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no maddy i meant more along the lines of i dont care if they get made fun of about that bc the church deserves it.


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maddy29
post Sep 29 2006, 07:16 PM
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venetia, much love smile.gif great post. i totally agree about the PC-humorless stick. i love laughing as much as anyone else, but come on. and yeah, generally i'm not thinking mean awfulthings about everyone....i don't think that's normal or good...
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anoushh
post Sep 29 2006, 06:39 PM
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There's an old feminist saying "the personal is political." I don't think you can make neat distinctions like that--that so easily seperate the two.
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prettynpink
post Sep 29 2006, 06:31 PM
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Just as an insert:

I wasnt referring to that episode in general. I acutally havent seen that episode.

I'm referring to every other show I've seen.


And I didnt say that there is anything wrong with NOT calling someone a cunt. I'm saying that the level of PC today is absurd, as per my example. There is a difference between just being PC to not get in 'trouble' and treating people with respect. I think that the controversy around the word "nigger" is absurd. That does not mean that I do not respect people's sensitivities to it. Of course I do.
To me, the level of Political Correctness today borders on disrespect for a person's intellect, however.

PC is POLITICAL. Not personal. I am not involved with politics, nor will I be, so I will continue to treat others with respect.


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anoushh
post Sep 29 2006, 06:29 PM
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Venetia, I love you.
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venetia
post Sep 29 2006, 05:56 PM
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If there's nothing wrong with House expressing itself honestly then why is there something wrong with others expressing a dissenting opinion honestly? Laugh at domestic violence or be entertained by persecution of minorities all you like but by the same token it's my right to think badly of you for doing so, and it's also my right to support other forms of entertainment.

And don't call me "PC". Be a bit more honest. My opinions are as real to me as yours are to you. I don't like "PC" either but that's because it's a meaningless term.

When people dismiss others as PC, often it's like they are trying to say that actually we all think exactly as they do, and that there's some mysterious... I dunno, fashion accessory? random whim? power trip?... called "PC" that stops us from being exactly like them. Like anyone who isn't on your wavelength secretly is, but is too chickenshit to admit it. That whole thing about "He says what your thinking but are too afraid to say". Um, sorry I am not thinking that shit. Just because you may derive humour or entertainment from what intersexed people go through, in their lives, doesn't mean I do.

To me this is a lot like the argument that I once heard a male flatmate's male friend make along the lines of all men would enjoy raping women if they could and men who say otherwise are just - you guessed it - PC. Um, no dude, stop projecting your issues.

I'm sure it's much easier to pretend to yourself that everyone else in the world is secretly in exactly the same place as you yourself are - and then criticise them for "being PC" instead of criticising them for their real actions, opinions or beliefs, but it makes for a meaningless debate. It's just as bad as those people who try to be PC rather than thinking for themselves.

/rant

That said - I agree 100% with Mandolyn and others here about the function of social satire in these shows and that everyone has their own comfort level. (I myself regularly watch and enjoy several things that are controversial in this field, such as the nz cartoon Bro'Town - and at the same time I can see issues with it: eg a bigot doesn't have to be shown as a good guy for a show to inflict hurt or to exploit bigotry for nightly entertainment) I just get sooo frustrated when the trusty old "humourless PC" stick is pulled out to beat anyone with a different politics or comfort level to oneself.
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mandolyn
post Sep 29 2006, 05:06 PM
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i don't watch "house", but i used to watch "all in the family", and still do when i can. i hold that as the one of the greatest tv shows of all time.

shows that feature "lovable bigots" aren't condoning the wrongness of society, they're holding it up for scrutiny. i see nothing wrong with doing it humorously. "rescue me" is my favorite show, and most of the lead characters are major bigots, racists & anti-feminists. to me, the writers deftly show the absurdity of being a hatah. same with "south park".

mel brooks makes fun of the jews (and everyone else), but he's not anti-semetic because he IS a jew?

then again, i think we all have comfortable levels of un-PC-ness depending on what's most dear to our hearts.




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thereshegoes
post Sep 29 2006, 04:39 PM
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why dont feminists make a show that makes fun of anti-feminist bullshit? i would laugh at that show. i would netflix that show. i think margaret cho is a prime example of how it could work.

i think i would be able to lighten up and enjoy un-pc humor more if i saw my own values as the mocker (as opposed to the mocked) more often.
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treehugger
post Sep 29 2006, 04:31 PM
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I so wish I could Bust during the day because I'm coming into this conversation late. Regarding House. I'm one of the "house lovers".

I don't think House is really, honestly a bigot in himself. I think he's a self absorbed egotist. I also think he's brutally honest and will be honest to everybody he talks to. And I also think that he's got his patient's wellbeing in the forefront and if brutal honesty to the spouse or to whomever will force out the information he needs to properly diagnose the patient's illness, then so be it. An embarrassed or angry patient is better than a dead one.

I think House deliberately uses controversial language to make people sit up and listen or to take seriously what he's saying. If he's talking to a black person he will say "if you don't listen I will have to drop the "N-Bomb". It makes you perk up and listen.

That's the way I'm seeing the whole House character.

I don't really think he's a bigot.


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prettynpink
post Sep 29 2006, 02:50 PM
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I do think that words can be offensive and I certainly think that words have power.
I think that nigger is a stupid word. I'm sick of the controversy around it. I'm sorry, but if a word is okay for ONE part of society to use, it should be okay for the rest of society to use.

I also think its absurd that someone has to resign from his position for using the word "niggardly" when its meaning and language roots are completely removed from the origins of nigger. I'm sick of this absurdity.

Ignorance perpetuates Polical Correctness. If you are ignorant you will jump to the wrong conclusions when someone uses a word like "niggardly" and demand false justice.




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maddy29
post Sep 29 2006, 02:13 PM
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well, i don't think of cunt or pussy as a bad word, but even on this board they are used as insults against women.

so should we start using the word nigger? because to not use it is just being pc.... and it's just a word after all, and we all know words don't actually MEAN anything!

i'm not getting this at all. pnp, you don't think there are any offensive words? cause i can think of a lot!

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prettynpink
post Sep 29 2006, 02:08 PM
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you know, I've stopped thinking of cunt as a bad word ever since I read the book.

Its amazing to take the power out of a word. thats all they are. Words. Letters and sounds strung together. Political Correctness just enforces the power of "offensive" words.



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