[strongirl]

I usually shut up in here once anyone disagrees with my points because I don't care for conflict and I think it's better to just let people air their views. But in this case I have to speak up to defend my own credibility which I feel you unfairly questioned, AuralPoison.

A small group of my women friends and I actually DID burn our bra's by throwing them into a campfire in the Colorado Rockies in the early '80s. (OK, technically not the '70s but close). We all worked on a rape crisis hotline, most of us didn't shave our legs or armpits or wear makeup, we had heated discussions about social politics, we read Jill Johnston and Susan Brownmiller and Rita Mae Brown and Marilyn French, and hey, we really did burn our bra's in an alcohol and politics-fueled celebration of breast freedom. At the time we weren't tracking on the media distortion of "bra burning" as you describe but we were aware of the idea of bra-burning and gave serious thought to the social implications of it. No reporters were there and neither were you, so it seems presumptuous for you to flatly state "No, you didn't." just because you "hate that tired old chestnut". You can slam me for being a walking stereotype, LOL, but to question my personal experience seems unnecessarily hostile in a forum that exists for women to offer each other support. You could have asked "Did you really burn your bra? I didn't think anyone actually did that based on what I've read."

I apologize if I reinforced a misconception that "bra-burning" was a widespread phenomenon when it wasn't. However, "going braless" was a widespread phenomenon then and it was associated with feminism, body acceptance, and sexual freedom. I celebrated that then and I'd love to see the pendulum swing back that way now.

I appreciate the fact that some people physically benefit from bra's like others benefit from orthopedic shoes and I respect that it's an individual decision based on physical and psychological comfort and can vary every time we get dressed, depending on the day and situation. I felt I stated that clearly in my original post on this; I tried to. I wear bra's sometimes; I even have a push-up bra and like others in here mentioned, enjoy wearing it when I want to woof up my stuff in a low-cut dress. I'm not "anti-bra" per se any more than I'm anti-socks, though I usually wear neither.

But when so many of my small-breasted sisters in here voice distress about their dependence on padding in order to look and feel "normal", when they feel anxiety about dates learning the truth about their breast size, when they wish more small-breasted women would go public unaltered so that the bar stops ratcheting up and up (but they're not sure they can be the ones to do it), when it's gotten hard to find a bra in any size that doesn't have hardware and padding and excessive "enhancement"...I think something needed to be said about the cultural pressure around bra's and how it hasn't always been quite this oppressive and doesn't have to be in the future. And to encourage women to make their own decisions about what to wear or not wear based on comfort, personal preference, and self-expression rather than fear of social disapproval or rejection. That's what I was trying to do and I stand by what I said.

[auralpoison]

Ya know, as an old feminist, I gotta tell you young'uns that in the 1970's we burned our bra's for a reason! They're tools of oppression! They restrain our femininity, they distort our natural shape, they present a part of our body as if it exists solely for public consumption, they make women look more alike and less unique, and now with all the padding and underwires and chicken'frickin'cutlet inserts (which weren't even around in the '70s) they disguise the numbers of small-breasted hotties and warp public perception of real boob sizes and shapes. Bah. We've regressed.

A quick history lesson because I hate that tired old chestnut of "We burned our bras!". No, no you didn't. What actually happened is that two different protests from the late sixties somehow how got blended into the American mind as being one.

The infamous so-called "bra burning" incident took place in 1968 at the Miss America pageant in Atlantic City. A small group of feminists picketed & tossed various forms of female accoutrement like girdles, bras, make-up, & high heels into a "freedom" trashbin. There was absolutely no fire at all. Not a lick. They also crowned a sheep. The story was propagated by a young reporter from the NYP named Lindsy van Gelder & was perverted by a headline writer. It's been debunked time & time again.

And I quote Susan Brownmiller, "That's a myth. It was the time of draft-card burning, & some smart headline writer decided to call it a "bra-burning" because it sounded insulting to the then-new woman's movement. We only threw a bra into a trashcan."

Also, in an issue or few back of Bust they did a history piece on the falsie; they may not have had "chicken cutlets" as we have them today, but falsies have been around for a very long time. The article even cited a patent filed in 1858 for a conical wire false bosom & I'm sure they were around before that in some form or another.

In many respects brassieres & such are a tool of the patriarchy, but some of us do actually need them just like some people need orthopedic shoes.

[ailurophile]

TheBeesKnees: What a loser! I feel for you. Girls acted like that when I was in middle school.

Karategrrl: Ha! I used to order over the phone all the time. I’m so relieved to have the internet now.

Angie: Call me crazy but yes, I have two mirrors. I like to watch us. He’s funny. He’ll ask me if I can see okay. Hehe! Maybe that’s for another thread though. But anyway, even when I’m feeling …um…inadequate, I do try to act confident (ie: keeping myself out in the open, being on top, etc.) He hasn’t dumped me yet so I’m doing something right. - - -So the "Trust me, they've been disappointed." chic can kiss my tiny tits.

Strongirl: I often wonder if the style will ever go back to thin fabric bras. Bell bottoms, halter tops and other clothing styles from that era came back. So I always wonder if bras will ever evolve back to the natural look.

[strongirl]

Ya know, as an old feminist, I gotta tell you young'uns that in the 1970's we burned our bra's for a reason! They're tools of oppression! They restrain our femininity, they distort our natural shape, they present a part of our body as if it exists solely for public consumption, they make women look more alike and less unique, and now with all the padding and underwires and chicken'frickin'cutlet inserts (which weren't even around in the '70s) they disguise the numbers of small-breasted hotties and warp public perception of real boob sizes and shapes. Bah. We've regressed.

Which again, is not to diss people for wearing bra's, padded or un-padded - everyone has to decide what's comfortable for them, physically and psychologically. But still. The cultural phenomenon is what bugs me. The fact that a normal, natural body part has to be disguised and contorted in order to even be considered socially acceptable.

Farrah Fawcett died last week, so that got me thinking about her legacy. I still love that hot poster of hers - perky B cup tits with big nips poking out. Smokin'! There was a quote of hers that made me laugh. I can't find it right now so this is not exact but it was something like "When Charlie's Angels went to Number 3 in the ratings, I thought it was because of our acting. But when it went to Number 1, I realized it was because none of us wears a bra." I loved that. Hotness, humility, and a sense of humor. RIP, Farrah.

[angie_21]

karategrrl, it's so true! the other thing that drive me nuts is that when they do make A cup bras, a lot of them are the exact same design as a C, but with scaled-down cups. Umm, no actually that just doesn't fit the same way on my body, thanks. The straps don't fit the same way, the cups are never in the right spot, the underwire is too rounded and doesn't really conform to my ribcage at all. I hate that BS about how 90% of girls are walking around in bras that don't fit. No kidding, idiots, it's because they're cheaply made to a single template that doesn't account for any variation, and they actually don't make bras that fit us. I don't care how many times I measure myself, if the bra doesn't exist, I can't buy it! grrr.

ailurophile, that story about how you feel looking the mirror made me sad! don't feel that way! Being sexy is not all about being voluptuous, not at all! I know that one thing guys have always thought was sexy, in my experience, is being 100% confident in bed, not hiding my body by turning off the lights or keeping clothes or the sheets over my body. They just want to be able to see the girl they love having an awesome time and being all turned on, that's sexy.

But hey, nicely done for having a mirror there in the first place.

[karategrrl]

One of my big gripes is though, why does Victoria's Secret make so many cute bras, and NOT offer them in a-cups? You dicks!

I agree! Years ago (before Internet shopping...yes, I am dating myself....) I was putting in a VS order over the phone. The sales girl was trying to get me interested in adding bras to my order. "What about the Madeline bra," she'd say. "That's not in my size," I'd say. "What about the XYZ bra," she'd say. "Not in my size," I'd say. This went on about four times and she would NOT get the fricking hint. Finally, I was like, "Look, I wear an A cup, and you have practically nothing in my size, and what is in my size just doesn't fit, okay?" Amazing how people larger than a B jut have no fricking clue.) No offense...just venting.

ailuophile, that girl at work is in serous denial. Email her a link to this forum. And I hear ya about the bra requirements. I'm the same way.

[TheBeesKnees]

Small boobs are hot! I've never really had any complaints on mine [that I've listened to], but about two weeks ago, my sister's female friend grabbed one of mine and saw "Awww, really?" in disappointment. When I laughed it off and said no one's ever complained before, she said "Trust me, they've been disappointed." Nice girl!

One of my big gripes is though, why does Victoria's Secret make so many cute bras, and NOT offer them in a-cups? You dicks! Yes, I know, they're the final word on what's sexy: 19 year olds with big boobs. How hard is it to make that sexy? Come on...I could do that, and I have no background in marketing.

But I do love my Betsey Johnson bra...it actually makes me look sorta busty...no pun intended.

[ailurophile]

I have mixed feeling about padded bras. Yes, I wear one. But I don't really want to anymore ...more or less for the reasons Strongirl suggests. I wear the Very Sexy style by Victoria's Secret. I wear tight shirts especially in the summer and it bothers me to look in the mirror because I know it's not me. But I'm always the smallest girl wherever I go. And that bothers me. If all the other smallies went padless, I'd feel more confident going padless or even braless. And I can tell who wears padding and how much. I'm like an expert. How sad, I know. I have tried to look for bras without padding. I have two but they are so uncomfortable as I've said. I'm very picky about bras. They have to have an underwire but no or little padding. Very difficult to find one without any lace ...and racerback is a must! You think I'm high maintenance? I find bras very uncomfortable as it is. I think I was supposed to be a boy. Anyway, the few places I do go without a bra, I like when my nipples show. I know a lot of you like the light padding to cover your nipples. When I can have a moment alone, I will pinch them so they show. Is that weird? I just got a triangle bra swim suit from Vickie's and I took out the padding. I'm so small that if my nipples don't show, I feel even less feminine.

That article was weird to read. I agree that it was strange to see what is written here somewhere else without permission. A lot of good feedback though. You gotta love Tarvold. I am trying to be comfortable in my own skin. Sometimes I feel sexy. And then I don't. Sometimes I am so horny with bf, I feel volumptuous and then look in the mirror and reality hits. It makes me feel so bad. But look at these models how hot they look. This Sessilee girl. How hot is she?!?! I know it's a confidence thing and I am working on it. But I keep being reminded of how small I am.

Complaints: This girl at work who is on the small side wears a lot of padding. You can see where her chest ends and the bra begins. It’s big bump. She denies wearing any padding at all. Says it’s all her. Burns me up. I feel obsessed with this. Like I want everyone to know the truth. Especially when someone says how nice her boobs are. Funny thing is she and I have worked there a long time and she used to not wear padding. Did no one notice her boobs suddenly grew? But she also talks about how small her sister is. Her sister who is significantly bigger than I …and does not wear padding. Anyway, she talks about her sister’s small boobs and then says, “Poor thing”. Here I am trying to tell myself that small tits are hot and I have to hear what a poor thing her sister is, when she has bigger breasts than I do? .............I'm just babbling now because I’m annoyed.

[Allison-Shine]

Sadly, I have seen some 11 year olds who have out boobed me. MEH.

Hey it just happened to me too and I'm 23 My friends 11-year old daughter went all of a sudden from AA-A to a 34B. ?? She's still only an inch taller than me but that will change for sure. What a difference a month makes. MEH!

[angie_21]

According to my ethics training, anything said in a public locale or situation is fair game for anyone to quote. We never discussed what kind of stuff on the internet counts as "public," and academically I think it would be borderline for someone to quote this forum without at least warning us. For a blog, I don't think it metters thoug, I mean, anyone can come in here and read this stuff without signing up, so it's pretty public. The news stations post people's facebook profiles all the time, which kind of weirds me out. All kinds of stuff that's in poor taste is also apparently fair game - I remember last year when a girl in Alberta was murdered who had been somehow involved in the porn industry, the Sun splashed promotional photos of her working in a bikini car wash all over their front page. Sure those photos were already semi-public, but to then post them all over the province after she died? No respect whatsoever.

It does seem like bigger boobs have been in style for the last few years, I think it was a backlash against the rail thin, crack addict look that was popular in the 90s. Something in between would be nice. Or, if I'm lucky, maybe back flab and knee fat will be the next new look this summer?

[karategrrl]

girl logic, I agree about the icky feel of loose fabric against my nips and areolas. It's waay too sensitive for me, and another reason why I usually wear a bra. And busty girls with padding does piss me off royally, though I relaize that's just the way they make many bras nowadays. Look in the Victoria's Secret catalogue and they have these at least C-cup women modeling the push-up bras, which pushes the boobs practically up under the chin. Looks retarded.

And I agree about that other blog. Since half of it is really quotes from this group, it IS a tad strange. You'd think we would have been asked or at least given a heads-up. But yes, then again, this is the Internet.

Oh, I almost forgot--with the coming of summer here, it's brought magazine covers of women wearing low-cut tops/dresses. There's one of Holly Hunter on the cover of More, and I saw Michele Pfeiffer on the cover of another mag. Yet another was a small-B woman in a bikini on a fitness mag. There was no cleavage, no boob-edges, no airbrushed enhancement in sight and, you know, I was like, "Dang, that's a great look." Trying not to get my hopes up too much, but it's awesome to see some representation.

[starship]

Yeah the blog thing was kinda weird. I know it's a public forum & everything but it seems odd to me that people come and read all we write without contributing and then go discuss it elsewhere.

loved the agyness pics:)

i wear padded bras quite often but don't necessarily see it as some great travesty. The shops are full of all sorts of shape-altering underwear nowadays- everyone's at it. And even some women with big boobs wear padded/push-up bras to get the shape/look they want so i dont necessarily see it as purely small-breast territory. Plus personally i find it so hard to find properly fitting unpadded bras that it's just an easier option most of the time

Please feel free to slap my mum karategrrl (never thought id say that). I already feel inferior around my perfectly proportioned family members. i dont understand why she's so insensitive about it when she was small (36a) when she was younger too. Maybe because she's got fat now (i can be blunt too) and has been welcomed into the booby world. anyway, i didnt mention anything at the time because i didnt want everyone to see i was bothered by or self-conscious about my size but if she does it again i definately will do.

Ive been working of some upper body exercises that some of you guys mentioned before and i think its actually starting to make a difference:). not to the size but to the sahpe and definition which is all good by me

[girl_logic]

I do wear lined bras sometimes and sometimes go braless just depending on what I'm wearing and the type of shape I want that day. I actually see it as a benefit of being small chested, I have a choice about how I want my shape to look.

Also, I can't stand the way loose fabric feels against my areola and nipples and mine are both very prominent and sensitive.

That's wild about the blog. Kind of makes me re-evaluate my anonymity around here though, I sometimes forget that this is the Internets.

[edie52]

Agyness Deyn nekkid (NSFW)!

On padded bras- I would never judge anyone for wearing one, but I'm with you, Strongirl. I usually wear a little triangle bra for a bit of shape and coverage, but I like it when the shape is natural and I definitely don't mind when my nipples show. Padded or push-up bras just don't go with my personal style. That said, I wore them in high school because I was way more self-conscious then and got made fun of occasionally.

Karategirl, I totally agree with you on tops squashing and flattening our chests. That's why I almost never wear tight tops. I don't wear baggy shirts, either, I just like ones that are slightly loose and hang well. I love wearing silk or rayon dresses that aren't too structured or tight on top but that have a tie or belt at the waist. For shirts, I usually wear a loose black tank top or camisole with a cardigan. Shirts are a major source of frustration for me- even though I have found a things that work for me, I still often feel like I have pants or skirts that I really want to wear, and no shirt that I really feel great in.

[angie_21]

hey strongirl, no offense taken at all! I know exactly what you're saying. I used to be dead set against wearing padded bras for that exact reason. But for me a huge thing is the hassle of trying to get shirts and dresses to fit me. Wearing a padded bra allows me to buy a wider range of clothing, and helps me wear dresses that otherwise would be waaayy too big on top when they fit on the bottom. I also wear a killer push-up bra for certain outfits on "date nights," just because, hey, I have nice little titties, and I wanna show them off. Girls with a c-cup can wear push-ups that give them amazing cleavage, and not feel like they are "hiding" their size, why can't I (even if I don't quite get cleavage lol)?

Also, non-padded bras get all wrinkly on my boobs because I'm not big enough to fully fill out an a-cup, so if there's at least a light lining, the cup stays round and it doesn't matter that the bra doesn't fit quite right. One day when I'm not such a cheap ass I'll go out the to expensive stores where the mysterious 36AA size may in fact exist, but until then, I can get nice looking bras for $11 out of the sale bins at la senza and victoria's secret.

Kera bear, I would go over to that board and raise some hell for them calling your story "heartbreaking!" I think I'll have to head over there and see what's up...

[karategrrl]

But...doesn't it seem like wearing a padded bra is an acknowledgment of the perspective that small breasts are somehow inferior and doesn't it by definition reinforce that perspective by publicly disguising the numbers of small-breasted women there really are in the world?

Hey strongirl, I'm so glad you feel comfy speaking your mind. Okay, I am stepping right up and publicly acknowledging my hypocrisy. And this is something I have kind of struggled with personally. Yes, I do agree that we shouldn't feel the need for padding, that by doing so we ARE disguising our numbers. Yet...I do feel it makes me look a little better, just as maybe a woman with large breasts feels more "put together" when she wears a supportive bra. I wear VERY lightly padded bras--"lined" is more the term. I deliberately don't wear actual padding for the reason you state. BUT I notice that every top squashes/disguises the little shape I do have, so I feel like wearing a little lining is more like making me look the way I really am, as well as disguising the Nips from Hell. If it's really hot out or the top is one that is easier to wear braless, I'll do that, though, and to hell with what anyone thinks. I admit that's not very often, though. (I do wish it was hotter where I lived...If so I might just ditch all my bras!)

Oh, and I am totally down with breast massage, esp. if my hot hubby does it. I don't even care if it has any health benefits.

[KeraBear]

Check it out. I came across this blog which talks about our group I was reading with interest and then i saw that they quoted ME! Apparantly, my story is "friggin’ heartbreaking." Also quoted was posts by Erica and Aithinne to illustrate the way you all were like big sisters to me (which is pretty accurate. Thanks again!). All in all, I think the writer conveyed a strong sense of what the group is all about. A good, positive article.

I wonder where they found that picture of me, though. j/k

And strongirl, yes, your points are certainly valid. Fo' sho!

[strongirl]

OK, on the padded bra thing.

I've been thinking about this and I didn't want to say anything because I don't want anyone to feel attacked or criticized and I truly believe people should be able to do whatever the hell they want with their own bodies without social censure from others. (Remember, I'm even the one who defended people who get implants.) Also, if any of you were my friends in physical life and you were always wearing a padded bra, I would consider it such a minor thing and I would never say anything unkind or critical to you about it, it would just be a non-issue in our friendship.

But...doesn't it seem like wearing a padded bra is an acknowledgment of the perspective that small breasts are somehow inferior and doesn't it by definition reinforce that perspective by publicly disguising the numbers of small-breasted women there really are in the world?

I'm not saying that any of you individually do not have valid reasons for doing so, or that you should stop. But even so, I think my points above are valid.

[honeybunch]

those "talent" shows always grate on me with the smug, unqualified judges.

Aithinne - I actually go braless quite a lot. I do live on the Gulf Coast, so it's really hot down here. I don't ever feel that I look skanky or inappropriate, either. I don't go braless in sheer or clingy knit tops, that's too revealing for me. I like woven tops with a little structure and an interesting neckline. One of the best things about being small chested is that we can get away with more revealing looks than our larger sisters without looking inappropriate. For instance, backless looks are fab for smallies because we don't need support. If you go to a bar in a top that looks deceivingly demure from the front, then you turn around and it's all skin, I guarantee that men will notice you.

pleats, ruffles, and other embellishments on the bust can also make your braless state a little less conspicuous, because they provide some nip coverage.

I live on the GC,too!!! *waves*

I do go braless from time to time. Sometimes I'm just too lazy to bother.

[angie_21]

...but noticeable growth? Man, everyone would be doing it!
Good point Angie! What was I thinking?!?!?

Well, it could still be a good idea. some of the stuff I read indicated that regular massage helped to stimulate blood flow in and out of the breast, preventing build up of toxins that can happen if you wear a tight/underwire bra. So it should help keep things healthy, perky and possibly reduce the risk of breast cancer. It could be completely made-up, but it seems fairly realistic. and if you wear a padded bra all day like I do, those poor boobies can feel pretty suffocated by the end of the day!

I forgot to chime in Starship and agree your mom's comments were quite uncalled-for. My mom used to mention my weight when I first gained my freshman 15 after moving out. I pointed it out once, and she didn't even know why she did it! More to make an observation than to pass a judgement, I guess, but she stopped after that. Sometimes I think when their kids are older, moms start to feel like they aren't as much a part of their kids lives anymore, so they jump in and meddle with whatever seems obvious (boyfirends, physical appearance) without noticing that it's actually hurtful.