[newo_ikkin]

You girls seriously rock my socks off.
I really need to start being more selfish when it comes to how I look at myself and stop the comparisons, because you guys are making me realize that you really can't change the world/society/men, and all you can control is yourself. Well, sometimes. But why focus on things that are out of your control? Anyway, I know what I'm capable of and that some of my favorite qualities I see in myself are outstanding compared to others and I'm pretty proud of that.

My guy gets really defensive when I bring up porn. Like if we're going to be apart for a while and he's talking about how it'll be tough to go without sex for that long and I make the joke of "you'll be alright, you've got your computer", he comes back with "I don't even look at porn anymore." (almost angrily) So when I was looking up movie times all those websites must have magically appeared in the drop-down menu, huh? The lying gets to me more than anything -- just tell me you prefer brunettes with tits! lol I guess I just don't like the fact that I'm so easy to replace.

karategrrl I'm so up for a tropical conference! My spring break is at the end of March. Just tell me where!

[karategrrl]

Thank you, thank you to all you truly AMAZING women!!!!! Sometimes I feel this classroom of ife is just too much to deal with, and I want to play hookey. Thank you all for the pics, and for all your comments, everyone. It sounds corny maybe, but I draw strength from you all. If not for meditation and dancing and good music and this board--all things in which I find comfort against the storm of life--I swear I would lose my mind.

DJ, I'm not as strong as you--if my guy had heaps of porn, I wouldn't be able to deal.

"all higher level cognitive function ceases as the blood in the brain moves down into the penis." You hit the nail on the head, girl!

You know, not to make this into a man-bashing session (men have pressures and expectations too*), but sometimes I really think they just--for some godforaken reason--don't "get it," and yeah, DJ, you could just shake them. I mean, to us ladies it's plain as day, and they're like, "huh?" I actually had a physical reaction when I saw Easy Riders--literally sick to my stomach, lightheaded, muscles wobbly. Here we are, trying like hell to try and be understood, to make them somehow empathize and understand. But they usually don't. And we must then put up with them the way they are--with stacks of porn or whatever. To be fair, maybe they feel they must put up with us, too--our sensitivity, insecurities, always wanting to talk, etc.

"I usually remind myself that most of those women are probably small-breasted women like us with big bags inserted under their skin." Edie, so right. So right.

Anyway, an update: We talked. It helped a little. I would feel better if he didn't act like the simple act of talking out a problem was like having root canal surgery. I said what I wanted to say, but I don't know if he really understands. <sigh....>

Love you all! I wish I were rich--I'd fly you all to some tropical location and we'd have the first-ever Small Bust Conference!


*A very good look into the lives of men is "Self-Made Man" by Norah Vincent. This woman spent a year and a half living undercover as a man and wrote a book about the experience. Fascinating.

[starship]

You ok Vendetta?? Seem a little down and pissed off...Obviously we all have/have had issues with breasts but its good to come on here and keep grounded on the issue and remind ourselves how stupid it is to let our lives be ruled by two lumps of fat on our chest. Hope you're alrigh' x

[dj-bizmonkey]

ok, i'm back.....

and to respond to what Vendetta posted most recently. men are SUCH babies when it comes to criticism. women are critiqued and admonished for their bodies and the way they look from pre-pubesence on, while men (and this is changing) don't have to deal with these kind of things. as a result, i think women generally have thicker skin. this also might be a contributing factor in men's insensitivity towards our body image issues.

nelly is right. sexy women are sexy, and not because of one specific body part. and men aren't just sex-crazed morons who have no self control. but they sure can be irritating.

i'm with you edie, i think fake breasts are gross looking, but i can't help but admire and envy large, natural breasts.

i am very thankful for this forum and for all you ladies. it's refreshing to have a safe place to vent and express ourselves. *high-fives all around*

[neurotic.nelly]

Yeah, I don't really need this thread. I only care about what I think is sexy, not what some dumb guys drool over or the dumbass media. But, good luck to all the ladies that are here working this shit out. It's a bitch.

[Vendetta]

Because big breasts are more appealing, it sells. Otherwise we wouldn't be all at this thread. Sexier or not, it's a matter of personal taste, but even a guy that prefers small-breasted women droolls over a big-breasted babe. That's reality.

[neurotic.nelly]

In no way, shape, or form are women with big breasts sexier than women with smaller breasts.

You cannot win in this world...some guys on the radio were talking about L. Lohan's breasts. She's got D's, and of course they were all drooling, but then they started talking shit about them because they sag. Well, DUH? Of course, they sag, she doesn't have implants, and she is a thin woman with large breasts. Those bags are gonna sag. They were laughing about it. It was so dumb. Those are the kinds of guys that are used to seeing weird looking fake breasts. I cannot stand your typical breast man. I have always liked ass and leg men b/c I find them more interesting, and they like me!

I hate the way fake breasts look and I heard they feel weird too.

But, it's not just guys, some lesbian associates of mine oogle over large breasts too. I guess it is just a preference, but again, they are not fundamental to sexiness.

I have a friend who is AA cup, and she never wears bras, and she turns heads everywhere she goes b/c her nipples are always at attention saluting everybody that walks by. She's hott!

[edie52]

You're all awesome! Love the pictures.

(((karategirl))) Sucks that you had to find that in your house and in your husband's possession. To echo what others have said, from his actions it sounds like he's a good egg, and he married you, so I'm sure he finds you attractive. But I know very well how hard it is to feel as though you're competing with women with such huge, exaggerated symbols of femininity, women who are so different from yourself. I usually remind myself that most of those women are probably small-breasted women like us with big bags inserted under their skin. How sexy is that??? Er, not so much. Most men I know (especially ones who are intelligent, interesting, respectful) don't think so either. (What does make me really jealous, though, is seeing someone with natural, beautiful breasts.)

My boy has been pretty good about making me feel sexy... he says things like "you're a total babe" or "I love your body." Even though I know I'm more of the big-blue-eyes cute type, or the pretty, lanky schoolteacher type- to MOST people. See that's the thing- we shouldn't feel stuck in these archetypes. Despite how I look and how most people perceive me, I (like everyone) have a sexual side and the person who I share that side with sees me as sexy, so that should be all I need, right? And that's just one side of me, too. Unfortunately, we associate being perceived as sexy by the majority of people as a way of getting power, affection, and ultimately, love.

I've never even talked to my bf about my insecurities about my body because he (and this board, and myself) has been helping me feel more secure about it. So I don't want to dwell on it with him. He may not even know that I've had such insecurities about it. I know when I see a cute small-chested chick I say to myself "Wow! She's totally hot, and she seems really secure and confident!" (I perceive this by her attitude or body language or what she's wearing). But for all I know she's gone through the same things we all have trying to accept her body. And for all I know people think the same thing about me...

Yeah. It's a lot about perception. But then there's the undeniable reality that the media and some people in our lives send us messages that we're inadequate, less womanly, what-have-you. Sigh. Le complicated.

And can I just say again that I really value you all and this thread!

[dj-bizmonkey]

(((((karategrrl)))), you are SO tough sistah, i know you can get through this. you've been a solid poster and solid supporter in this thread for a long time, i know you can work through this. men can be totally, insensitive jerks. you get upset over something that to you, is painfully and obviously offensive and his reaction is, 'huh? whut?' you just wanna shake the shit outta them! grrrrrr. i think maybe your man reacted angrily when you first confronted him because in his heart he knew that this magazine was offensive. he must be an evolved, intelligent and thoughtful man if he's with a woman like you (wink), so deep in the recesses of his man-brain he knew that you would find it upsetting. he was defensive because he got caught in the wrong and rather than immediately own up to what he did, he felt he could lash out at you and blame you for being too sensitive. it shows that he has character and integrity that he was able to come to later and be reasonable. after he was able to process everything and wasn't standing with his hand in the metaphorical cookie jar, he was able to apologize.

i know the feeling of 'you too, really?' about your man. my bf loves his porn, tons and tons of it and i try really hard not to be intimidated by it. i think starship is right when she says that men just love naked women, and lots of them. the more the better. all higher level cognitive function ceases as the blood in the brain moves down into the penis.

i was watching this terrible show, the millionaire matchmaker on bravo. now the woman on this show and the majority of the people kinda make me want to puke, but it's one of the only things on tv when i typically go work out. it's funny though, because these men will go on and on about how they want a mature, intelligent woman who knows who she is etc etc. they will specifically request women who aren't models or actresses, but young professionals. then when it comes time to make a choice, who do they go for? big-tittied bimbos who are hot hot hot. say one thing and do another, sheesh.

more later....gotta run to class!

[Vendetta]

Try to comment guys around you, like his friends, your friends, actors, singers, etc.. Mine gets pissed off. It hurts doesn't it? Hell yeah.

[starship]

((((((Karategrrl))))))
Its hard and i often feel im being oversensitive when it comes to my boyfriend and my body. I dont really like him looking at porn or 'those' type of magazines because it leaves me feeling so insecure. I know he loves me and im intelligent enough to know that decent men dont get into serious relationships based on purely looks. Yesterday he said to me that he thinks im 'pretty but not sexy' but apparently he finds my prettiness sexy and because he is in love with who I am that makes me even more sexy to him. Or something like that:/. I know he was trying to be nice and reassure me that he doesnt want anyone else but I just ended up getting upset with him. The poor guy cant win sometimes. I knew i was taking it wrong and being a bit irrational but i still felt inadequate i guess, as though theres something other girls have to offer him that i dont. Its kind of stupid because I think most men have the natural desire to see as many naked women as possible; I could have the so-called 'perfect' body and Im pretty sure he'd still be tempted by a magazine full of naked women. It's just easy to link anything which suggests that Im not sexually adequate back to my insecurities or, rather, because of my insecurities feel as though the tiniest thing indicates that im not adequate.
Maybe your husband was a little dumb karategrrl but at least once he'd realised your feelings he tried to make it right. Im sure there are plenty of jerks out there that would jeapodise their real relationship rather than ditch the smutty mags. Perhaps his initial angry reaction was because he genuinely wasnt bothered about these women and felt you was upset for something he hadnt even done in his mind. Many times Ive almost given in to surgery but there's no way I ever could- Id just be becoming part of the problem that has made my life a misery at times. Its just like taking the easy option and passing the problem onto another generation rather than dealing with it ourselves. Boobs do not maketh the woman

Ah, I ramble too much nonsense in this topic...

[crinoline]

(((((Karategrrl)))))
That's hard, girl. Men are stupid when it comes to obviously offensive, derogatory material. My boy could not for the life of him understand why I found the porn he wanted to watch ("Teen Fuck-Holes") unbearably offensive. The title is bad enough, but the film featured very young women with grotesque implants being degraded (IMO) by ugly men.
It saddens me that there are so many young women out there who are caught in the web, and who inject silicone and god knows what else into their bodies to be "pretty" and "feminine".



Here is a picture of a gorgeous young woman who has small breasts. Now, you can't tell me that she isn't beautiful or feminine. In no way is she "less than" because of the size of her breasts.

[karategrrl]

Hi guys,

Please send healing vibes my way--it's been a(nother) challenging weekend. Read on...

Hy husband, who once was a biker (once a biker, always a biker?) bought a copy of Easy Riders magazine Saturday, and a bodybuilding magazine. I'd never seen Easy Riders. there was a pretty "out there" pic of a busty bimbo straddling a bike like she was humping it on the cover. Hmm..., I thought. I flipped through it. (I typically like to look at the hubby's men's mags, and he's fine with it--I find them kind of amusing and sometimes interesting...not my cup of tea, usually, but I like to read different stuff than Oprah some of the time.) Well..I expected t o see a couple more cheesy girls in bikinis posing with the bikes, but I was totally unprepared for what was inside. Basically, Easy Riders is half a bike mag, half Playboy. ALL the women inside (except for a couple of ads) were naked, except for shoes and bikini bottoms. There were a couple pages of jokes, and all of them except one were degrading/derogatory against women. Granted, these were not tasteful, artistic-type photos of women. I found it offensive. It's bad enough to be bombarded with these depictons of women in my daily life (not to mention having to drive by two strip clubs and a sex shop--with manikins in the window who have grossly oversized breasts--on my way to work every day), I do not need that kind of sh*t in my house! (Let me say, I have no problem with the bodybuilding mags or the men's mags...yes, they have some of the half-naked women pictures, but it's at least done in a more tasteful, almost tongue-in-cheek way.)

Well, I told the hubby I felt very uncomfortable with that kind of magazine in the house. At first, he had the angry "You're insecure...I bought it for the bikes, not for the pictures of the women...So now you're going to censor me??" reaction. Later he gave me the magazine and said I could burn it or shred it or whatever, and he'd never buy it again. He said it was just a magazine and not worth causing stress in our marriage.

I'm happy he didn't have a "deal with it" attitude, or honestly, I'd be heading for a divorce lawyer, but still, it rocked my world--it was a reminder, once again, of how freaking hard it is to be taken seriously, and how difficult women who pose for stuff like that make it for the rest of us. One of the girls had an obvious boob job. Another page of photos was of candids of people at the Sturgis bike rally--a bunch of them were pulling up their shirts (most implanted, of course), another was wearing leather chaps and a thong bending over. I find it so deeply disturbing that women actually find this "empowering." And, of course, the implanted-ness of so many of them only helps foster the image that "large is normal," as we have discussed before.

The hubby said he doesn't think the near-naked women is a big deal, and I truly don't believe he really does--to him, as to many men, this is "normal." I guess that is part of what disturbs me. He lived in Europe for awhile, and I know over there, there is nudity in TV ads and no one thinks it's a big deal. Well, I'm American and my family was pretty conservative, and being a woman who has struggled all her life to be taken seriously and to be viewed as "attractive, despite my small breasts," it just rocked my world. I mean, boyfriends and now my husband, when they are backed against the wall, will say that what they want, deep down, is the girl whose got it all ON THE INSIDE. But when it's you standing next to the slutty-looking girl with the big breasts--fake or not--they're all drooling over her, not you, and we're all supposed to be okay with that because, after all, WE are who they "really" want. Is there a straight man in the world who looks at something like Easy Riders and thinks it's as offensive as I do? Maybe they really are just a different species.

This weekend was one of those weekends I almost was saying to myself, "The hell with it! I'll just sell out and get fricking implants like everyone else and be done with it!" But I have to thank you ladies, because just to log on and read your posts makes me feel so much better. (That and listening to "Stupid Girls" by P!nk, "Just a Girl" by No Doubt and "Beautiful" by Christina Aguilera.)

Please send hugs my way. I need them.

PS: I burned the magazine. That was great.

[neurotic.nelly]

psst...hey starship, it took me a really long time before my feelings changed about my breasts, i was in agony over them from the age of ten until prolly my early twenties. that is all for now.

[starship]

Hi Nelly. I agree with all you said and as in intelligent woman i know that it's right and tell myself this stuff all the time. Which is why it drives me completely insane that I still have this issue with my breasts! No matter how illogical or against my usual beliefs it is, I still cant persuade my sub-conscious to think the same way as the rest of my brain. It's frustrating and I end up feeling like Im trying to kid myself. DjBiz hit the nail on the head with the stuff about it being especially difficult for feminists to reconcile. I think (/hope) it's something that will ease with age because Im determined to leave this world with nothing but home grown goods. Reading some of the more positive posts on here has convinced me that this is achievable (yay ). Infact Im actually looking forward to being older as my grandma has already informed me of how grateful Ill be of my wee ones in later years (or maybe she was just feeling guilty for not passing on her big booby genes :/).
My boob ambition is to go braless in the sort of outfit you see keira or the supermodels wearing- the sort where their breasts (or lack of) are blatently obvious and they dont give a damn. Might take a lot of work from where I am now but itd be worth it. two fingers to society for making me feel inadequate

[neurotic.nelly]

Hello All,

Stopping by again to add to the convo re: powerful boobs. Now, in the article she says it is not the boobs themselves that make her powerful, it is our societies emphasis on them. And for that very reason she is glad she has them. Who puts emphasis on them, though? Men. Boobs give women sexual power over Men, that is all. But what if you are uncomfortable with that and when you meet Men you want them to meet you without all that sexual energy, you want to be met with respect and equality. Don't reduce me to a sexual object, just yet, or I'll cut ya! I like having smaller boobs b/c I get looked in the eye, and that is exactly what I want.

In my experience, a few of my friends with C cups and larger seemed less powerful than myself with the small B's. They were harassed constantly... and being constantly harassed brought them a certain level of anxiety about their bodies, being alone outside and inside... I never had as much fear as they did...

There are women with the boobs, that are smart and command respect, and sexually powerful, and they know how to use it and not abuse it, and not be victimized by it, and I say, word up to those women...

It is not the boobs that makes a woman powerful... it is the woman wearing them... it is not the lack of boobs that makes a woman less sexy... it is the woman wearing them... in my opinion. Confidence is sexy. I am confident about other parts of my body, like my ass, and my legs, and my arms, my eyes, and smile, my nose, and cheeks, and I have cool hair. ETA: oh yeah, DUH, I am confident about my tits too! I like having small tits, although I do feel more pressure to stay on the slim side b/c of them. Which means I want to lose about ten lbs, but I still adore em.

The boobies may be more sexually powerful to some, but I think that smaller breasted women have a freedom that larger breasted women only knew pre-puberty.

[Vendetta]

Yep Starship, power. That is the word that comes to my mind when I think about breasts. I love so much being a woman and honestly I really feel that something is missing.
The other day I was doing doing this commercial for tv and they dressed me up as an employee of the store, Worten. The client didn't wanted girls to show any skin so they put me on a man's t-shirt, size Small. So there I was, on grey classic pants, All-Star snickers and a T-shirt and besides my face and hair, nothing would indicate that I was a girl. I was feeling completely self-conscious that my t-shirt was just lying totally flat on me. It sucked.
This friend of mine gave me this button shirt the other day that she didn't used to wear. I was trying it on, buttoning and when I get to chest's part, there were no more buttons. It was supposed to give some cleavage. I got so pissed off and thought "I won't give up" so I grabbed my most padded bra and inserted my two silicone pads. There was no cleavage but I wasn't flat either so suddenly the shirt made sense. But I kept the whole day messing with it because the pads were allways coming off at every arm move and the bra was showing all the time because I have nothing that makes it stay on it's place. It sucked.
I wish I had that power.

[starship]

I was reading some random little article thing ealier that made me think. I dont think her views are anything new or exceptional for me, but she expressed and made me realise the general underlying views which make me want bigger breasts (namely: boobs = power). As pathetic as a feel admitting it i think that the power that comes with cleavage is probably largely to blame for my desire
powerful boobs

Im not sure if the link will work but I found this Carolyn Latteier book quite interesting:
Breasts: the Woman's perspective
anyone read the actual book?

Just popping in to say Hi- got lots of non-breast related essays to write

[dj-bizmonkey]

ok, double post, but here we go.....

i also think that is especially hard for women who consider themselves feminists to reconcile this issue. it is frustrating because we want to be beyond this, outside of the box, not succumbing to the status quo or the wills and wants of patriarchy. i feel that i am a feminist, yet i am still plagued with the sense of inadequacy- that i don't turn heads with my tits. when you take a step back and examine it, it seems ridiculous. but when you are mired in it, there appears to be little recourse.

[dj-bizmonkey]

i've said this before, but can we ban the words 'flat-chested' from this thread for good. i mean, nobody, not even guys (except for maybe super super skinny ones) is actually flat-chested. it sounds negative, has negative connotations and i know it doesn't make anybody feel good to be called that.

knorl is right, our self-worth is not based on a reflection. imagine a world without mirrors. imagine living your whole life and never seeing your own reflection. would you be any less of the person you are now? i don't think so.

i sympathize with your frustration vendetta. i mean, if you consider yourself an independent, educated, confident young woman, then logically you shouldn't give a damn about what one man thinks of one body part. the problem is, no person on this earth is an island. there is no way to quiet the external bullshit that we are surrounded by daily. the only thing you can truly take responsibility for is yourself and your actions. no one can wield power over you unless you let them. you've got to break that destructive line of thinking. you need to insert something revealing, comforting and inspiring in its place.

more to come later.......i have to go to class.