[annelise]

a question for you guys: when you're really down, what do you like to hear from friends/family/SO?

with me, i guess i just want to hear that i'm not alone, that i'm loved. so that's what i tell my bf--he's in a really bad phase of depression right now. but i wish i could say more. i just feel at a loss sometimes, and he's in so much emotional pain. i hate to see him hurting so much.

[whitelightning]

i hate it when "normal" things like going out open the floodgates to all this self-loathing. it's weird because i absolutely love going out to eat; i'm ok going out and doing that, and perhaps even a movie. or a supermarket. anything that doesn't involve me divulging any bit of myself to anyone (i.e., making friends or spending time with the ones that i do have).

but luci, it's good to break it down into steps - it's not so overwhelming. i totally do that, too. sometimes i say it out loud: get up. brush your teeth. put on your socks. etc....don't think about the entirety of your car ordeal. think of it simply as some things you're going to do that day. and if something goes wrong, or you miss a step, promise yourself you will laugh (even if you're crying).

i've been completely boggled and overwhelmed by my nursing school applications. i'm so frustrated and confused by how many different things i have to do for each school (and i'm only applying to 3!) it's so unbelievably difficult and competitive to get into a nursing program these days - the odds are like 1 in 10. writing those essays suck...you have to proclaim why you want to be a nurse, and what you can bring to the table. sounds easy enough, right? i can't help but feel sick about the fact that they're even asking me these questions. it's like getting blood from a stone....and does that mean i'd be a shitty nurse? how can i help people if i can't even help myself.

i worry about losing friends, too. they can't possibly be impressed by my need for approval and my weepiness.

[maddy29]

annelise. i hear ya. i'm always in my sweatpants thinking about delivery and he's like wanna go out to eat? i loooove eating out, but sometimes i'm at home in p.j.s and i just can't deal with changing and dealing with the world....

i wonder about losing everyone too, cause i'm so bad about keeping in touch and i still spend a loooooot of alone time...

[annelise]

i didn't realize that the jitteriness with effexor was that bad for you! sounds like you should absolutely be off of it. i hope the other stuff helps.

i also hear ya about the boyfriend, sometimes i get this horrible knot in my stomach and i just wonder how long he'll put up with my stuff-wanting to lay around at home all the time, etc.

yeah, i can relate to that. we were talking about getting food the other night and it had to be takeout because of how i was feeling, but my bf said something about how part of the prices were for the atmosphere/ambiance of the place. i'm sure it's a lovely restaurant, but i'm not well enough to go out to dinner. he doesn't usually say stuff like that, but he apologized. but i feel awful sometimes...i just can't physically be active active girl. and that really gets to me sometimes, and i wonder if i'll lose everyone i care about because they'll get bored with me.

and right now he's being really distant since his latest big depressive episode the other day, and i miss him so much. i'm not very good at coping with this.

[maddy29]

oh, mandolyn, i'm so glad you switched off the effexor. i didn't want to be discouraging, but i wasn't sure why they'd start you on that. it causes a lot of problems for people, although it does help others. but it seems better to start on an "easier" med at first. what did the effexor feel like? just curious...my old horrible shrink prescribed it to me but i researched it and didn't take it cause i was too scared.

luci-i tooootally do that too, i'm working on trying to slow down mythought process and just take one little step at a time. i feel so dumb though. i still just feel like things other people see as no big deal, i'm like argh! about. i cut everything down into tiny steps and try to just focus on one thing at a time but i always end up all nervous about everything....gah.

i also hear ya about the boyfriend, sometimes i get this horrible knot in my stomach and i just wonder how long he'll put up with my stuff-wanting to lay around at home all the time, etc.

[mandolyn]

erinjane, glad things are a tad better.

and luci? many thanks for your kind words. you're right, i don't feel i deserve 'em. but it is good to hear.

and i'm daunted just listening to your car expedition! sucks ass that i'm firmly in the throes of even doubled driving anxiety these days, otherwise we could've maybe met. it also sucks that i had issues with getting to brooklyn even before this crap descended. someday i'll become brave about driving into the city. or else learn to navigate and not freak out on mass transit. seriously, i'm in awe of your bravery even considering doing this. i know i should cheer you on, but if you wind up not going, i totally feel ya.

maybe you can take these days alone to get some good, healty food into the house, maybe cook a few large meals that you can freeze? you've got the motivation. three days of good eats might be all the kickstart you need.

thanks much for the meds commiseration/advice, annelise and maddy. interestingly enough, i've done speed, and coke was my drug of choice for many a year. but that fucking effexor ... that was true torture. i couldn't even bring myself to CONSIDER trying half.

so. now on to zoloft. which i took for a short time 5 years ago. i was never quite sure it helped, but maybe it did and i just didn't realize it. trying to be hopeful.

[lucizoe]

I'm glad you're feeling better, erin

Mando, I don't think I've ever said how amazing and tough I think you are. So there. I just said it. I'm in awe of how hard you are working to get well, and in spite of how silly you may think it sounds (and no matter how much you'll tell yourself "I am not"), I think you're a tremendous inspiration.

I was on effexor for a time in my mid-teens, but I honestly have little recollection of my experience. Except weird, weird dreams.

So - I'm facing an odd three days. Hubby is in France, and I'm here all alone. I know it's just three days, and lately I have been feeling like my mood has been so oppressive to both of us, that it's good for us to have a break. I mean, if he was home, we'd just be sitting on the couch, doing nothing, me worrying that my depression is going to fuck up our relationship, not that the worry will actually do anything productive to counter that. I wish I had some IRL friends, you know?

But now I'm sitting on the couch, doing nothing alone, while he gets to be miserable on a plane. I have two things to do tomorrow, but one feels incredibly insurmountable because the number of steps involved, which of course I have to obsess over as if they must all occur at once, instead of in sequence (leave apartment, walk to train, go to station, get ticket, go to white plains, go to parking lot, clean car, find car-wash, wash car, park somewhere, take pictures, take back to lot, get on train, go home whilst lugging all the junk emptied from car). Plus an hour for a walking client. And that is literally it, but it feels huge.

Ugh. I hate working myself up like this. I haven't been eating right at all - partially because Mr.Luci insists on sticking to his Ramen noodles and cinnamon buns diet, eschewing almost all vegetable offerings apart from salads and greenbeans. It's hard to do this when he honestly does not see a need to eat healthily. One of our favorite arguments is the over the validity of the potato as a healthy vegetable, particularily in large quantities. I mean, I know he has the metabolism of a hummingbird, but I don't and when I'm depressed I just eat what's easy. Like the damn cheese danishes he bought!!! Doesn't he notice I've gained like 20 pounds since I met him?? So I feel extra-gross with the extra weight that I can't get rid of because my ability to change back to my good habits is significantly affected by my self-esteem. I just don't deserve to feel good.

(He does ask how he can help and he wants to be supportive. Unfortunately, I don't know what to ask for. I just want him to know. Grrr on him not having telepathy!)

Blah. Rambling. I hate that he's flying. I hate flying, though not so much that I stay off planes if I want to go somewhere. I would feel better if I was with him, I think. I know plane crashes are exceedingly rare, but I'm still anxious about it.

Okay.

[erinjane]

Thanks for the support. The last two days were better. I apologized to my older brother for getting mad because I know he's under even more stress than I am (his wife moved out on Saturday) and he apologized for leaving the house a mess. It's not that my niece doesn't know how to clean up after herself, it's that he lets her get out all these toys and then goes, "Okay, time to go!" and runs out of the house.

My parents come home tonight though, so I'm feeling relieved already.

[maddy29]

oh erinjane, that sounds awful. i'm actually jealous that you allowed yourself to actually kick a wall, that's so awesome. and the cat licking your food, it's just like one thing after another until you just can't take it anymore. i had a day like that last week too, i was crying on the bus all the way home and just was having a reallly hard time not snapping and starting to yell at random people on the bus who were annoying.

mandolyn- starting meds is stinky. it's scary too. when i started on celexa, i told my friends to keep their eyes on me, in case i got weird. it was a scary feeling for me to put this substance in my body, when i had no idea how my body would react to it. sadly, there's not too much you can do except wait and see how it goes...good luck, maybe it'll really help-i wish i'd gone on meds years before i did-i was just SO stubborn!

[annelise]

can you talk to your doc about starting on a lower dose and increasing slowly? side effects can be so discouraging, and sometimes your body adapts/overcomes side effects and you can end up really benefitting from a drug that you initially hate (that's my experience, anyway).

[mandolyn]

me on effexor = speedy.
i know it's only day 2 and i should give it more time, but me no likey.

[mandolyn]

(((erinjane))) what luci said. i hope things take a better turn for you & your family soon.

laurenann, thanks for the vote of effexor confidence. it means alot to me, since i just popped my first pill. i'm over the price tag thing. i mean, really, if i tallied up how much i spend on stupid shit ... vanity crap, like hair care products alone ... it's time i realize that my short term happy fixes - while they may be temporarily good for heart & soul - aren't cutting it anymore. spending money on tending to my mind (and probably body, if i truly have a chemical deficiency) is more important.

[laurenann]

mandolyn, i take effexor extended release, and i've had a good experience with it. the only bad side effect i have is constipation - it was REALLY bad for the first few months, like nothing i did helped, but now i just make sure to drink a ton of water and take a fiber supplement and i am fine.

some of the horror stories on here have had to do with when you go off of it, and i agree that the withdrawl is pretty awful. one time i didn't take it for four days (i really need to order refills sooner) and i felt horrible. if i forget to take it one day i get a really bad headache. but, for me those are the only downsides, and i like it because it helps with my anxiety and depression (it works on mutiple brain chemicals) and i didn't gain any weight like i did with paxil or lexapro.

about insurance covering effexor, for some reason my insurance has effexor extended release (XR) in a different category than regular effexor. i first started with regular effexor and had the same crap - the insuance wanted me to take generic drugs that were not the same, it was in the highest price tier. but i showed my doctor the prescription book from my insurance and we agreed to switch to effexor XR. i get it through the mail - a 3 month supply for one $40 copay! which is way better than the $90 per month they wanted for regular effexor.

summary of above lengthy post: i like effexor, and look into your insurance for your options.

[lucizoe]

((erinjane))

What a shitty, shitty day. It sounds incredibly stressful and you've held up so well, and you're totally justified in being angry.

I'm sort of boggled at someone who won't teach his kid to clean her toys up. I mean, if she's old enough to play with them she's at least old enough to participate in the clean-up, right? You are not required to be his mom. He is far old enough to be cleaning up after himself and being a grown-up, even through intense, major upheavals.

Argh. I'm just super-pissed for you.

[erinjane]

Having my parents away has not been good. I feel like I have to take the place of my mom and be there for my brother while the cops are repeatedly called (3 times last week), his wife is coming home drunk, and they're fighting about the house and custody. Things have actually settled down now. My SIL is moving out this weekend and I think she knows it's not safe for her to have my niece very often.

I compulsively clean. I feel like I've been cleaning non-stop since my left, but I can't not do it. My older brother slept over a couple of times in my parents bed and both times I HAD to make the bed. I couldn't go to sleep till it was done, or I have to do the dishes, and tidy the toys my niece has left out after my brother takes her home without lifting a finger.

Last night I came home and the garbage wasn't taken out and there was a mess on the counter so I threw a bottle of pills then went upstairs and screamed into a pillow. Then I got really frusturated and started to cry and kicked my wall and made a dent then a bunch of plaster fell off. Then I turned around and my cat was licking my cheese and crackers so I screamed as loud as I could in my room, which was brutal to my throat, and couldn't stop crying for 15 minutes.

Then today I'm exhausted from last night and just sitting here listening to music when out of nowhere I burst into tears just now. And I don't know why. I feel unbelievable anxious and stressed. I haven't felt like this for at least a month so it's really knocked me on my ass.

[mandolyn]

WL, my doctor knows i'm seeing a therapist (who is not an MD and can't prescribe), they conferred last week. but when i first went to see doc in november, she gave me a prescription for wellbutrin because i told her i've been seriously considering trying antidepressants again (neither one of us know the extent of my newfound anxiety at the time). we spoke for nearly 45 minutes that day, she read back extensively thru my records and asked alot of questions, so it wasn't just a here-ya-go-now-ba-bye thing on her part. i did tell her i would start seeing a therapist and i'd keep in touch with her, which i've done.

there are two schools of thoughts about getting meds from a GP instead of a psychiatrist, and there's been very helpful & insightful discussion in here about it, if you have the time to read back thru the archives. for me, though, i trust my doctor (which my insurance pays for), i like my therapist, and don't see the need to go to a psychiatrist (and pay out-of-pocket) just for meds. not at this point, anyway.

and of course you're right about going with the effexor - thanks for your input. a good friend just told me the same thing. he also filled me in on the scaryass russian roulette world of generics, so i'm thinking i might as well go with the "good stuff" this time.

yeah. that's me. top shelf mandi. heh.

days like today, though (including yet another voicemail from therapist, with a referral for a psychiatrist for meds; i know she's trying to be helpful, i did tell her to scout someone out for me, just in case; but she called me at work earlier this week and now it's borderline annoying) ... make me just want to chuck the whole therapy & meds rollercoaster. and i've only barely begun the ride. le sigh.

[whitelightning]

mandolyn, were you able to get that prescription without getting a referral from a therapist? i only ask because i'm looking to explore medication but can't afford a friggin' can of soda. maybe i can see a nurse practitioner or something.

if you can afford the $50, i'd say just do it. it doesn't have to be forever and there's no sense in prolonging your aggravation. it's exorbitant, yes, but i'm sure it's worth it. and you may be able to figure something else out later on down the line.

[mandolyn]

crying can be good, whitelightning. not all the time, of course. but as a release .... well, i had a few crying jags last week, and it definitely helped. i know i keep too many tears inside.

i do hope you can get some help soon. i don't mean to make it sound dire. it's just such an alone feeling. i don't know if my current course is the best one, but at least i feel positive about doing something.

saw my GP last night, and i feel really confident in her prescribing meds for me now. she suggested effexor, and i know many of you have horror stories, but i'm trying to keep an open mind. (i'm actually going to stop researching now. it's all so conflicting and overwhelming.) so i go to pick up my prescription, and it's $50! and that's with my insurance paying $49.20! so i call the insurance company, and a very nice woman informs me effexor is not part of the "approved class" of AD's for our plan, and she helpfully gives me generic equivelents. only i looked them up after, and they're not generics for effexor, they're generics for entirely different drugs (zoloft, paxil, prozac and celexa). i have a call into my doc, because we were debating between zoloft and effexor anyway, so if she doesn't feel strongly, i'd rather go with zoloft.

but christ in a camry, $100 for 30 fucking pills?! this is a rude awakening for me.

and then there's my husband, who says, "hey, whatever it takes to help you. $50 a month isn't gonna break us."

i am so mad. and confused.

[whitelightning]

i could see how it benefits the counselors and i know they are all professional about it, there's just something really unsavory to me about the being recorded behind a one-way mirror. like an interrogation. i'd rather have multiple people in the room, listening. i feel like i'm in a bizarre police-style lineup. ....or maybe my troubles will be broadcasted over the loudspeaker in the college quad.

...so maybe it's not for me.

yesterday i had a relatively short sobbing episode in the parking lot of a grocery store. while i'm pushing my cart.

[stargazer]

yeah, we had a mirror when i was training to get my master's as a counselor. if you are uncomfortable, then don't go there. it is really more for the counselor to get training. but,yeah, don't go there if you don't like the setup.