[doodlebug]

Hey luleey...just a quick response as I'm working on a report tonight (but BUST is like crack, isn't it?).

I wouldn't recommend swatting a cat, even gently, as it could cause them to see the human hand as a threat, and could possibly make them MORE likely to claw/hit/bite out of fear (defensiveness).

But I'd recommend trying the "scruff of the neck" thing for the biting and other violence towards humans, because cats seem to understand "scruff of the neck" as you dominating them, which is different than threatening them. Like I said, nothing was working with Carmella (spray bottle, verbal discipline, canned air, etc.) till I tried that. The other things would frighten her and make her run away, but they didn't stop the behaviour. This is working - she's almost at the point where she doesn't nip or swat (people) at all. I think it's about respect for the "dominant cat" (you), versus fear of a threat to their safety.

Of the cats I've owned (or been owned by), the two that came from the shelter were the biters. (Bunny's biting ended naturally, when she realized she was in a safe place - though she did tend to nip my feet occasionally in bed, if I accidentally touched her in the wrong spot in my sleep!) I am absolutely certain the environment creates the behaviour.

[luleey]

thanks for the advice, doodlebug. the clippers do "enclose" the nail. yeah, i made the mistake of abandoning the endeavor when he started squalling like a maniac. i'll have to try it again and be firm. maybe when he's in a sleepier mood, or suprising him like you suggested. little duke is also a big biter, and he really doesn't respond well to "no" and being swatted on the nose like a mother cat would...i'm thinking of breaking out the spray bottle for this, bc i would hate to have a really bitey cat. he gets super belligerent if you try to question his antics during playtime...flicking his ears back, rolling his head around menacingly and puffing his fur up while stalking around you. it's actually really funny to watch but his little teeth are sharp! we got him from a shelter and he was the runt of the litter, so he may have been given a hard time there which could explain his defensive attitude. he is also very loving though and follows me around everywhere, so i know he can be good, it's just a question of him understanding that it's not acceptable to gnaw on people whenever he feels like it.

on a funnier note there was a fly my room the other day, and duke was entranced. i thought, good, that'll keep him busy...until i saw him leap up out of the corner of my eye and then heard loud lip-smacking noises ensue. apparently duke had caught the fly as an after-dinner snack, cause i sure couldnt find it!

[doodlebug]

Oh, cute pic!!!

lulee, are those the kind of clippers that surround the claw?

When Bunny was still around, she didn't mind having her claws clipped, but she hated being held down. I found that if I let her sit on her own on the sofa, without holding her down, she would let me clip her claws. I would sit beside her and lift her paw, press the claws out, and clip, without any complaint or struggle from her. She was very special of course. (She also hated being restrained in a carrier, and would have happily sat on the passenger side floor of the car for an entire trip without moving or doing anything bad, if I'd let her....but I didn't want her to become cat pizza if there was an accident, so in the carrier it was, with the carrier seatbelted into the back seat.)

I use the element of surprise on George and Carmella. I keep the clippers nearby, and during some moment when the cat is lulled into security (usually during a petting session), I scoop them up in my left arm and start clipping with the right. I hold them very firmly, and speak very gently, with lots of "good boy/girl," "almost finished, three more" and soft "shhh" noises while I'm doing it. Giving treats and lots of praise afterwards seems to help, and also, letting them go without touching them again until they come to me - that lets them regain their sense of independence and dignity, I guess. My furbabies barely struggle at all now, and while they leap away when I'm done, they never sulk or avoid me afterwards.

I've had to start swabbing Carmella's ears with this anti-itch solution, so I use the same tactic to get that done.

I've found that it's very important to maintain the "boss cat" position when doing stuff like this. In the beginning, if they tried to get away, I wouldn't let them, and if they DID get away, I would go and find them immediately, so they'd no there was no delaying or getting out of it.

I'm also not afraid to correct that really wild kitty behaviour - really only if it reaches the point of being physically aggressive towards me or another human (I don't interfere when it's just cat vs. cat) - by grabbing the scruff of the cat's neck and saying "no" in a low, firm voice. I know this might sound evil or mean to some, but I never do it in a hurtful or angry way, and I never, EVER try to lift them this way. I do it in a firm, I'm-the-mother-cat-so-settle-down kind of way. After all, that's how their mothers train them! In fact, though Carmella was a biter/swatter when I got her (I would probably bite and hit too, if I spent 2 months in a shelter, and my entire life before that as a rescue cat in a house full of many rescue cats), she's almost completely over it now, and the scruff-of-the-neck technique has been the ONLY thing that worked. Scruff-of-the-neck correction is instinctive to cats, therefore normal; it makes them instantly submissive. Though you have to do it immediately, or they don't make the connection to the behaviour (i.e., if they run away, don't chase after them just to discipline them). And lest anyone worry about alienating cats with this, my furbabies are very affectionate and trusting, they still follow me everywhere (like kittens), and they rarely, if ever, do bad things. In fact, aside from Carmella's biting/swatting habit, I can't think of a single bad thing they've done recently. And Georgie, who was actually trained as a kitten in scruff-of-the-neck correction by Bunny (his pseudo-mom, and the kitty who taught me this technique), has not bitten, scratched, or clawed a human - not even during play - since early kittenhood. He is the sweetest and most gentle little guy I've ever known - and this is a fellow who lived alone, neglected, and unsocialized on a tiny balcony from age 6 weeks to 3.5 months.

[luleey]

cuteness of everyone's kitties! i'll try to post a pic sometime...meanwhile tried to trim the kitten's claws yesterday and he screamed bloody murder the whole time. any suggestions? i have the guillotine type clipper, and we bundled him in a towel too but he wriggled out. i barely clipped the tips of his claws but he acted like i was trying to kill him! so now one of his paws is trimmed, kind of, and im afraid to try the other one...i'd be interested in hearing any success stories you all might have to offer. thanks!

[bunnyb]

Cuteness!

very cute and funny: mandoo has just freaked at the window cleaner! Never seeing him move so quickly from the sofa to run away!

[crazyoldcatlady]

i see a submission for "cute overload"

[ms.gb]

frickin adorable!!!! ramsay, they are soo cute!

[ramsay]

Off the euthanasia topic (as last week was a bad week for me at work as far as that goes).....

[gomersalgirl]

I'm a veterinarian and have the unfortunate task of euthanizing both companion animals as well as horses. Most of the time it is fairly uneventful. It really does depend on the nature of the animal...especially cats. The solution itself doesn't cause pain. It's basically an overdose of anesthesia that you don't recover from. Being a large animal vet, most of my clients would have the option for me to come to their house. I know that is how I want my own animals to go (shudder at the thought). There are some veterinarians in my area that won't even allow the owners to be present during euthanasia. Again, this is because it doesn't always go as smoothly as you would like. Take comfort in knowing that it is not a painful procedure and by the time the decision is made, you know that it is the best decision for your pet!

[pollystyrene]

I've had to euthanize several cats since childhood and it never seemed like any of them suffered while it was happening. I had a friend whose cat, like doodle's, had a firey personality, and was a big cat- I think my friend said it took 3 or 4 shots of the sedative before the cat finally went to sleep.

[doodlebug]

catlady, I'm NOT a vet, but after witnessing two of my beloved cats put down by euthanasia, I do worry about it too. Sabbath, the first cat I put down, seemed to struggle a lot, even though she was 16 and very sick...she also had a bad temper by nature, so I don't know how much that played into her struggling. Muffin, the 2nd cat, seemed to go with less struggle, but she was in desperate pain due to mouth ulcers, and still, it's never been "peaceful" like it's described. I actually changed vets after that, because I didn't like their way with my pets.

I was grateful when my third cat, Bunny, died "naturally" at home, because I didn't want to put her through either the trauma of going to the vet's sterile office when dying, or the trauma of euthanasia. She had a very good death, if you can describe a death as good. Lots of love, music, comfort, and compassion. BUT I knew she was dying and was watching closely to see if I needed to have her euthanized to stop any serious and/or prolonged suffering, which I think would be worse. But I still think she probably felt pain as she was dying, since it was likely heart failure that ended her life - I think death can be painful no matter how it happens, which is the 2nd biggest reason I fear it personally! (The 1st biggest is my fear that there's nothing after death.) Maybe we just superimpose our own fears of death on our pets...I don't know.

Still, I would prefer to do it that way always - in fact, next time I have to have a cat put down, if I do (which hopefully will be at least 15 years away, since my current furbabies are only 2!), I'm thinking of paying extra to have the vet come into my home and administer the euthanasia here (or wherever we are living), where at least the cat will feel safe and secure. The difference between Bunny's last hours, and my previous two cats, was phenomenal, even if only for the extra peace it gave me. (I also liked that my other cat, Georgie, got to see and sniff the body, so he understood that she had died - rather than Bunny just "disappearing" out the door and never returning.)

I have nothing to contribute that will ease your mind, I'm sorry. But I wanted to let you know that I go through the same fears and worries that you do.

[crazyoldcatlady]

so i have a question for any vets/budding vets (mornington...? )

i had a kitty for 19 years. loved that cat so much i don't think i am ever going to be able to get another one.

but that's off-topic. i had to put my kitty down about a year ago, and i'm not "regretting" it (for lack of a better word) because she spiraled into bad shape fast, but i have a question about the actual act. they sedated her beforehand, and then used the euthasol-or-equivalent.

i couldn't help but think about this when i was reading an article about the academy of anesthesiologists who recommended that the physicians don't participate in lethal injection capital punishment because "the person may not be adequately sedated, causing pain when the actual concoction is inducted" (paraphrased).

so i know the situations aren't comparable, but i suppose what i'm getting at (even a year later) is, did my kitty feel pain?

[saktii]

I love my cats, but I spend alot of nights over at my bf's house. My new roomie told me that my older cat, Holden, cries when I'm not here. This makes me feel like an awful person.
Anyway, here are my girls, Holden and Dolly
Holden:

Dolly:

[doodlebug]

Cute!!!

Ok, I am cross-posting this here and in the decor thread. It is the most amazing thing I've ever seen!

The Cats' House

Click on the link that says "Cat's House" and then click on the little cat images to go backwards and forwards through the tour. The "catwalk" is amazing! Now I want to build something!

[quantumspice]

KITTIES!!

[doodlebug]

Hello everyone! I hope everyone's kitties are doing well! I'm sure they all got a bit of extra attention while the Lounge was down...heh heh.

I am pleased to report that Carmella survived her first road trip, which included a broken down car, a three hour wait at the mechanics, a trip to that town's store, and a ride in a grocery cart. George also survived, but he is more used to it...I think he figures as long as he is with me (mamakitty), he is alright.

Carmella seems more confident already (home last night). I was getting a bit perturbed that she was still acting skittish, after over 6 months away from the shelter, but the trip seems to have made her feel more secure or something. Just had a guy in here repairing my sliding door, and Carmella didn't even try to hide, as she would normally do. In fact, she came to me for some pettins while he worked!

Oh shoot, we can't edit. I forgot to add that the kitties' adventure also included being in the car while it was being towed.

[ramsay]

Is your kitty eating yet bebe? If not, have you tried feeding him kitten formula with a syringe? Or even wet kitten food mixed with water through a syringe. I say kitten food because there's a lot more vitamins and proteins in kitten food as opposed to cat food. At least that way he'd still be getting fats and proteins in him.


BTW, I'm new here. My bf and I just got two new kittens! Bruno is 9 weeks, and is just a tiny little thing. We found him in a dumpster when he was just 1 week old. We bottle fed him and he's in really good shape now. He's a little monster. He runs around and plays all day long with anything he can find. I wish you could have seen him the day he discovered rubber bands. Since Bruno really needed a playmate, we decided to adopt Fritz. Fritz is 11 weeks now, and is a little giant because the lady that had his liter never weaned them until they were 8 weeks!
Also, if I ever start going on about tons of other kitties, it's because I'm currently doing my pre-vet internship, and I work in a rescue shelter.

[bebebutton]

Hi there, I'm a backslidin' bustie. Haven't been in about 2 years, but could really use some help here.

My kitty has stopped eating. We've taken him to the vet twice, he's on antibiotics and appetite stimulants, and gets fluids daily through a sub-Q. Bloodwork and urinalysis look fine, lungs are fine. X-ray shows enlarged liver and an irregular skeleton (the thickness of the bones is irregular--I can't seem to find any info on that).

My vet recommends getting an ultrasound and liver biopsy in order to rule out, or diagnose, liver disease or cancer. From what I've been reading online, it seems that he has Fatty Liver Disease. I wish money weren't an issue, but I've spent $500 already and would like to try feeding him and hydrating him myself for a couple more days to see if an improvement comes with that.

Does anyone else have experience with helping a cat recover from Fatty Liver Disease? Also, does anyone have tips on force feeding? He tolerates the pills and the sub-Q all right, but will do anything to get away from me for the force feeding (with one of those large syringes).

Anything is appreciated, thanks bustie ladies!

[luleey]

yummy, you can also hang out by the litter box (i know, it's a little gross) with the kitten and sort of rustle the litter with the scoop. this makes the kitten curious and they hop in the box to investigate. it's kin of a reminder for them that th box is there.

[raskel]

yummy, how old is the kitten? was the litter box far away from the areas where he's gone? kittens will do that if they can't make it back to the box in time. when i get a new kitten, i usually train them like i would a puppy for a little while. every time they eat, i take them to their box. or if i see anything suspicious i'll take them over, etc.