[angie_21]

So she complained that the woman wasn't wearing a bra, then said she had no breasts.... hmm.. if she has no breasts, whay would she need a bra? The woman can't even get her own story straight. It's also a very childish and inappropriate comment, because it has absolutely nothing to do with the instructor's grasp of yoga and her ability to teach it. I usually try to stay out of websites where those kinds of discussions happen at all, because it only makes me mad, but given the context, I don't think you were being childish! Nice for someone to stand up for the small girls!

If my boyfriend had said that to me, I would have shown him to the door, where he can start on his search for better looking girls as good in bed as I am. Checking out pretty girls, no matter what their specific body type, is one thing, and I'm not bothered by it because there's a lot of beauitiful people out there, and I try not to compare myself to them. But if he were ever to start comparing me to other girls, there would be some hell to raise.

[ailurophile]

Sorry- I should explain the bra-less part. The woman was complaining that the yoga instructor was not wearing a bra nor did she have a shelf-bra in her sports top. (That's exactly what I wear to the gym and yoga class. Is there a problem with that?)

[ailurophile]

Hi- I haven’t been here in a while. I think of this thread often. I wanted to tell you that my bf took a vacation with some friends and came back with a tank top for me that says, “Tiny Tits Rock”. I wasn’t sure how to feel about that. I'd like to wear it out but it's a little big (go figure!) so it doesn't round off my little points. Anyway-I know he accepts me how I am but he still checks out the fuller girls. It hurts when he does that. The other day, we were joking about cheating. I said "as long as her boobs are smaller than mine". He said “no comment” and laughed ...loudly! He was supposed to say something more supportive. Maybe I expect too much.

I thought of you girls today while I was on a blog that was critiquing (more like bashing) a yoga instructor. I don’t know if anyone knows Ana Brett, a tiny breasted girl, about my size actually. A woman complained that she had “ no muscle tone, no breasts even”. I blogged back. This was my response:

I resent the remark "No muscle tone, no breasts even". Are you in high school? ...making fun of small-breasted girls??? All women have breast tissue, unless taken from them. Whether our breasts are small or large is another thing. I am exactly Ana's size and us tiny girls can in fact go bra-less as well as shelf-bra-less. Can you? We all have pros and cons to our different sizes. Picking on a girl's breasts size because you don't like her yoga instruction is so childish.

One has nothing to do with the other! I was so angry. Was I being childish myself?

[MsKissyStarfish]

I love the body positive aspects of dancing, annak. I've been bellydancing for almost five years, and it's done wonders for my body awareness and image.

Popped over from another breast thread to say hello. Angie 21 I loved what you wrote about acceptance and feeling body confidence in that thread. I agree with it 100% and as far as breasts are concerned there are such a small range of readily available sizes I think that contributes to the self consciousness that any of not "average" size feel.

Crinoline I too found that bellydance changed my body and perception of it. It made me appreciate the strength and grace in ALL of our myriad body shapes.

[crinoline]

I love the body positive aspects of dancing, annak. I've been bellydancing for almost five years, and it's done wonders for my body awareness and image.

I bought this bikini today, in red (I used the code 25BSEXY to get an extra 25% off). My friends / boyfriend / family have been bothering me because I always wear a one-piece. We live on the Gulf Coast, and at the beach it's extremely rare to see a girl my age/size wear one. So, this one was cheap enough that if I don't end up wearing it I won't feel horrible, and it's cute enough that I could stand to wear it (I love the retro details).

[KeraBear]

Made my day!

Here, here! *Raises tall glass of milk*

[karategrrl]

"there are like a million guys out there that would love to see all those beautiful tiny titties."

Made my day!

[anna k]

I'm more fit for the large-breasted thread, but I agree on realizing how strong one's body could be. I love to dance, and taking hip-hop/jazz classes has taught me muscle memory and memorizing choreography, finding my own jazzy style in dancing, and finding a sense of grace in movement. Besides that, I'm happy whenever a balancing exercise move that was too hard for me to do before suddenly is easier after several tries, it makes me feel a million times happier to achieve that. And it makes me feel like I have more inner physical strength and fortitude, even if I don't look muscular or "buff."

angie, I like it too whenever I get checked out, because I can be hard on myself and think of my looks as average, so it's a surprise whenever some guy checks me out in a positive way. I also recently got stopped on the street by a guy giving away free trial spa visits, saying he was looking for "25 cute girls" and I definetly qualified. It was nice, but I couldn't really take it seriously because he was trying to sell something and make a commission.

You are all so awesome and beautiful and cool and interesting, I love reading your posts.

[angie_21]

I always get a bit of a rush when I realise I'm beig checked out, mostly because I don't dress up often, so it doesn't happen very often! And from my conversations with guys, they also enjoy being checked out very much. so really, how is there anything wrong with that? lol

strongirl, it's sooo true that being able to do things like that really do have an impact on your life, and who you feel you are. I was a very, very unathletic teenager, and am still incredibly clumsy, so any physical acheviement feels really good to me! I am learning how to wall climb right now (still too chicken for rock climbing), and at work I learned how to do some pretty intense backcountry ATV riding, hiking, wildlife encountering, GPS/route-finding, and heavy lifting. True, some of those things are more mental than physical, but they are all part of the same challenge, I think. Nothing has boosted my self-esteem like being able to accomplish these insane tasks at work! Sorry if I'm kind of tooting my own horn, it's summer and I'm clearly over-excited about getting back out there!

My boyfriend has been teasing me about spending so much time on this board, so I explained this thread to him and I why I think it's important. He knows I used to have some pretty big issues about my size, and he has always been so amazingly supportive, but he was still surprised that we have a whole thread where we spend time discussing this stuff. I am sure partly because guys would not discuss this, I mean, do they have forums online for things like baldness, penis size, and beer bellies? Maybe. But anyways, he was surprised mainly because he just can't imagine why girls with his idea of the perfect body, would want to look any different. He had a few other things to say that I won't repeat here, so please excuse the crudeness of what I am passing along, but, "there are like a million guys out there that would love to see all those beautiful tiny titties."

[strongirl]

Angie21, I LOVE your additional recommendation! Very profound. Among the reasons I love my body: it can run marathons, rock climb, scuba dive, lift weights, and sail a sailboat...and it has given birth to a child and sustained that child with breastmilk. All of those were things I was terrified to do and worried I couldn't do. And all of them helped build my sense of appreciation and respect for my body. They all have had deep impact on my life. In comparison, the random comments of other people about how I look? Pfffttt. Means nothing.

[starship]

the same happened to me angie- since I've turned 21 I've filled out quite a lot- but it's all on my bottom half somewhere or other. belly, hips, butt, you name it. But from the waist up I barely have an ounce of fat- what's that all about :S. I am undeniably pear-shaped. But I'm just glad I eventually got fat somewhere. Old me wouldnt have lasted a second if a famine broke out.

I don't think men are effected to the same degree by the whole media thing, and probably never will be, I was just pointing out that its nice for them to be getting a small dose of it and will hopefully lead to a bit more empathy and change. I wont hold my breathe however.
In a way it's also helped me to accept that you don't need to look like a magazine model for a man to find you insanely attractive. like angie said, i dont expect men to look like the ones in the magazines and nor do i want them to- so why would a man necessarily expect/want me to look like an airbrushed media tool either. If you catch my drift

Someone looked down my top today and even though he was a dirty old man i still felt a little bit pleased. shame on me

[angie_21]

I'm back again because I didn't have time to respond to everything last night. Hope you're not sick of me yet!

Kera, believe me, your body will keep changing forever. I gained 30 pounds when I was 21, and all I managed to get out of it was moving from a 34AA to a 36A. And I became self-conscious about my belly for the first time in my life. I've always had gigantic hips and a pretty smokin' booty (if I do say so myself) that I hated in high school. Don't know if you've heard the wonderful insult "flat n fat" but I applied it to myself. I slowly got over it and gained confidence, and looking back now at pictures of myself when I was 16, I realize how completely smokin' I was without even realizing it. My god, if I had only known the power I could have had with a body like that! It's just as well, though, that my lack of confidence helped me to become a more well-rounded person, and to learn to value myself based on things like intelligence, hard work, and kindness towards others.

Hey geoff - it's too bad there aren't more men who can handle a bit of beefcake on TV now and then. Everyone should be able to appreciate a beautiful body, male or female, like they would any other beautiful work of nature, without feeling that it reflects upon themselves. I don't think most women want to go out with an Adonis, but damn, there are a lot of George Costanza's in the world, who judge what women look like while not even bothering to put on a nice shirt once in a while.

[geoff]

Mind if I comment on the Adonis topic?

I completely agree with most of you. Fair is fair. Ideally, the media would just portray women less as objects and more as people, but if they're going to do it anyway, they should do the same with men. I'm a little surprised to hear about men actually feeling intimidated by it, but I'm glad. Frankly, a lot of cocky men need to be taken down a notch.

Personally, I liked Dirty Dancing and generally like Patrick Swayze. (And I like the song "She's Like the Wind" and that he sang it himself.) I wish I looked a bit more like him and could dance like him, but I'm not intimidated by it.

With those images of men in the media in general, it doesn't bother me to look at a nice, strong, healthy male body. It doesn't turn me on sexually, but a healthy body is beautiful, male or female. I don't mind a bit of a challenge to give me incentive to work on my own body - but in a healthy way, without steroids. Even if I know I'll still never look that good. I wish I could get a good tan, though - fake or not, they're always so tan!


blondenorwegian - I saw that show, My Small Breasts and I, and I agree that it was really good. It hurt to see some of the crazy things they tried. The series is "BBC America Reveals." They also had a good one called Superskinny Me, addressing another issue of women's self image. (They have several other good ones, but on much less relevant topics for this forum.)

[angie_21]

So much going on indeed! I share the luv!

I have no time to respond to anything right now! I was bushwacking thru hell and high water for work this week and came home to a huge mess, and there shall be more forests to hike through next week. I really love my life sometimes. Another thing I want to add to strong girls recommendation (which I am planning to go through with sometime within the next 5 years!) is to spend some time learning a really challenging physical task. I mean, something that you think you just plain can't do, something that you almost fail miserably at the first time you try it. Because when you can do it, you will love and appreciate your body from a completely different perspective. Instead of telling yourself to feel strong and ignore how your body looks, you will actually feel strong, and stop caring (even if temporarily) about how you look.

I try to let the whole advertizing and magazine thing slide right past me. It's horrible and degrading, it's all for a single purpose (to sell things) and the only way I can beat it is by completely ignoring it, and not buying the things they advertize. It doesn't mean a thing to me anymore. My boyfriend still gets pissed off about it, mostly when they post photos of half-naked, clearly anorexic women. But if I let it affect me, even in anger, they're winning because they've gotten my attention and changed how I feel about myself. If everyone could be strong and ignore it, then they wouldn't be able to sell things with sexually charged advertising, and it would slowly disappear.

As for men feeling pressured about their looks... Sadly, my reaction is a bit shallow, because I absolutely hate the look they are being pressured into. If a man isn't stinky, hairy, and bearded, he's not much of a man. No label-wearing, make-up wearing, mach 5-shaving, manorexic, greasy bowflex boy-children for me, thank you very much. Honestly. A clean shirt, dark hair, and a lack of a overly-obvious beer belly are the only major qualifications. Few men want a high-maintenance woman, why on god's green earth would I want a high maintenence man?

[KeraBear]

Lawd, so much great stuff going on here! luuv it!

I am partly to blame because I like to ask questions! But i guess that is what happens when you've only had a "women's body" for so little of your life. I am so ready to be finished with puberty. ha ha

And oh yes, I also LOVE the bunny!

Strongirl, yea i guess I can see how it would be beneficial to be in that kind of environment. So many times when we see people they are dressing up their bodies like something it's not, especially with breasts. Pushup bras, anyone? This has been tremendously educational. Thanks!

[karategrrl]

Lawd, so much great stuff going on here! luuv it!

Aithinne, glad you like the bunny! Yep, that was one grumpy bunny. I saw it at a really funny site--disapprovingrabbits.com. Okay, I just replaced my avatar with MY bunny! She has her grumpy, disapproving moments too! Love the bunnies!

anarch, I SO hear ya on the Patrick Swayze/Dirty Dancing thing. Um, like EVERY guy movie I watch with my hubby has its share of female eye candy, which hubby always says is "no big deal," but when we watched the Sex and the City movie and there was the scene with the naked guy in the outdoor shower, he was like, "Oh, puh-leeese!" Meanwhile, women are portrayed like that 8 days a week.

strongirl, MARRY your BF. Like, NOW. But seriously, he sounds like a man who is aware of what he's feeling and can also articulate it. That's RARE and very special. It's wonderful that you guys can talk so openly.

blondnorweigian, welcome to the club!!!!


Okay, something totally random I had to share. I was in the checkout line at the grocery store the other day. In front of me was a man with 3 young kids. The youngest, a boy, was probably no more than 3 and sitting in the baby seat of the shopping cart. the magazine rack was right by the boy, and smack in the middle of the mags was a beauty (or fitness or whatever) mag with a fairly provocative photo of a blonde kneeling in a bikini--like a pretty typical Victoria's Secret or Sports Illustrated sort of thing. The little boy was riveted to this cover photo, which is totally natural, I'm sure--I mean, all humans, even children, are sexual creatures (tho' children don't yet fully understand sexuality). What struck me was that right in front of me was an example of how the stereotypes of body ideals are literally thrust in front of us, even at very young ages. It's something we've talked about in here, and right there in front of me, there it was.

I wish (though it will never happen) that if we are going to see people's bodies used to sell magazines and stuff, that at least it could be of variety of all different types, ages, genders, and colors of bodies--celebrating human beauty in all its forms--rather than just the skinny, busty blonde bikini models. Nothing against anyone who fits that description, but it's only one body type, and not necessarily an ideal.

[strongirl]

KeraBear, it does happen. It's happened to me many times over the years and it just really isn't a big deal. There's usually no need to say anything, just be pleasant and keep talking or relaxing or whatever it was that you were doing. Occasionally a guy will feel embarrassed and compelled to say something, like "Sorry about that!" or "Pardon my reaction - you're very attractive!". And I'll say "Thanks, no problem. I'll take it as a compliment." And we just move on. I've had lots of sex at those places but always with people I was with. I've never had to "fend off" an inappropriate or unwanted "hit".

As for the adolescent thing, we are talking "clothes optional" not compulsory nudity. So anyone who doesn't feel comfortable being nude can not be nude. Often this is teens, going through that awkward phase. But many teens are fine with it, especially those who have gone to places like this all their lives, like my son and his best friend. The hot springs I go to most often really is a family environment, and around the pool on a given day you'll see all ages, from infants to seniors. I think it's great for teens, who are given so many negative messages about their developing bodies, to see a wide variety of bodies and everyone just being relaxed and fine with it. It's OK to be big, or small, or hairy, or pale, or have stretch marks.

It might sound intense but it really isn't. It's very relaxed and accepting and low pressure.

[KeraBear]

I have recommended before in this thread, and I will say it again: for those of you who have never gone to clothes optional or naturist beaches or hot springs, I strongly suggest you give it a try. What you will see is dramatically different from the airbrushed, surgically enhanced bullshit you are seeing in popular media and negatively comparing yourself to. Real bodies are beautiful, including yours. Yes, it can be sexually exciting. It can also be mind expanding, compassion inducing, and a liberating force from the self-hating hang-ups we all tend to get tripped up on. Try it!

One caveat: I am making a distinction between "naturist" and "clothes optional" environments as opposed to "swinger" or "lifestyle" places. In the former, you will find families with kids, men, women, old, young, thin, fat, disabled, you name it. In the latter, you will find a lot of silicone and sleazy horndog guys who are popping that extra Viagra in hopes of bagging that silicone 34E babe. You do have to do a bit of research to find places that are about body acceptance rather than sexual "gaming". Once you do, though, it is very liberating and life-affirming.

Wow, Strongirl, that sounds pretty intense, and liberating no doubt. Maybe someday... that has to be weird for teens and preteens though, because our bodies are in various stages of puberty (like late bloomers like me who was JUST budding breasts at 13.... awkward) and our hormones are pumping into overdrive. I dunno...

I do have a question though. ANd I am not trying to be funny! What if you are chillin' in there and talking with some dude and all of a sudden he has a hard-on? Do you say, "it happens", have a laugh about it, and then keep talking as if nothing ever happened? Thank him for the "compliment"?

[strongirl]

blondenorwegian, I don't think I've noticed you posting in here before but your comments were very insightful and articulate.

I had a similar experience a few months ago with my boyfriend, where we were at a social event where there were several women with extremely large, surgically enhanced breasts and we both had a sexual reaction to them and had sex during which we fantasized about them. I got off on it, as did he, but later my self esteem tanked, and I felt like shit and thought "I should either get implants or break up with him so he can be with someone who does". I kept this to myself, however. A few days later we watched a movie in which the male lead was not only hot but also a great, attentive lover. Afterward when we started to have sex, he confessed that he felt totally inadequate after watching that guy, and that the comparison was making him feel insecure and depressed and non-sexual. Spurred onward by his confession, I confessed how the women with implants and his reaction to them made me feel. His apology was so perfectly on target that it made me cry. Not only did he apologize for making me feel bad, but he explained very articulately how he is attracted to a wide variety of body types (as am I) but that mine is the most beautiful he's ever seen, how he's in it for the long run with me and he knows my firm, small tits will be healthy and sexy to him over the long haul, and while a particularly flashy feature like big boobs or beautiful hair or a very slender waist might catch his eye or spark a fantasy, the consistently wonderful, amazing, soul-deep sex that we have is something that he would never ever want to give up, for anything. It was a sincere, thorough, and totally on-target apology. And we followed it by awesome sex, as usual.

While my ego might want to be the only woman he can even see as attractive, I can't offer the same exclusivity in return: I love hot guys and I'm very visual. I love to check out guys' bodies! So given that he and I are wired very similarly, I think I can put my ego aside and my love where it belongs. It belongs with him, with the understanding that we're both gonna look, but that what we have together is real and hot and special and lasting.

[strongirl]

KeraBear, no, actually it was not difficult for me at all. I'm sort of a natural born nudist and coming from a pretty un-modest family and after many childhood and adolescent "play doctor" and "you show me yours, I'll show you mine" kinds of experiences, I took to clothes optional beaches and hot springs like a duck to water. I hate swimsuits with a passion, to be honest! So does my adolescent son, who I first took to a clothes optional hot springs when he was 4 months old. I recall his shock and surprise when he invited friends over at the age of 5 to swim in our pool, and they went into the bathroom to put on swimsuits!

I have recommended before in this thread, and I will say it again: for those of you who have never gone to clothes optional or naturist beaches or hot springs, I strongly suggest you give it a try. What you will see is dramatically different from the airbrushed, surgically enhanced bullshit you are seeing in popular media and negatively comparing yourself to. Real bodies are beautiful, including yours. Yes, it can be sexually exciting. It can also be mind expanding, compassion inducing, and a liberating force from the self-hating hang-ups we all tend to get tripped up on. Try it!

One caveat: I am making a distinction between "naturist" and "clothes optional" environments as opposed to "swinger" or "lifestyle" places. In the former, you will find families with kids, men, women, old, young, thin, fat, disabled, you name it. In the latter, you will find a lot of silicone and sleazy horndog guys who are popping that extra Viagra in hopes of bagging that silicone 34E babe. You do have to do a bit of research to find places that are about body acceptance rather than sexual "gaming". Once you do, though, it is very liberating and life-affirming.