[Persiflager]

Crossposted in the writers' block thread:

I think someone posted a link a while ago to an article by Ursula K. Le Guin regarding the lack of non-white characters in fantasy and science-fiction. I thought it was interesting, but it didn't really click with me until I started reading Octavia Butler's books. I'd get a few pages/chapters in before finding out the first-person narrator wasn't white, and it gave me a little jolt every time - I hadn't realised until then that I always assume characters are white if not immediately specified. Then I thought 'How weird would that be if it happened every time? If I had to get used to the default skin colour being something other than white? If I had to accept that jolt as normal?'

So, that made a tiny lightbulb go on in my head.

Anyway, I write stories, and have recently started worrying about the lack of diversity in my characters. It seems wrong to make every single one white, it seems dishonest to ignore race when describing them, and it seems really wrong to go down the route of tokenism and just change the colour of one without changing anything else about them (is that tokenist?). But my family/friends/cultural references are all overwhelmingly white, and I feel that I lack the tools to write realistic, non-cliched, characters of colour.

I don't want to force this into my writing out of political correctness - it feels like a big area of life that I've been ignoring, and I think my stories will be richer for thinking about this dimension.

Any thoughts?

[crazyoldcatlady]

jezebel post "Combing Through The Deeply Rooted Politics Of Black Hair Issues", prompted by a nyt article.

the post itself is rather short but in the comment section there's a pretty in-depth discussion. bustie thoughts?

[anarch]

Persiflager, I think you are extremely courageous for taking on this issue.

Yes. Thank you for thinking about it. Two useful books for helping process that kind of self-reflection are Witnessing Whiteness and Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together In The Cafeteria?

girl_logic, that wedding video made me cry. I'm glad you posted about your reaction because I gotta admit it never occurred to me to think of how different the comments would be if they weren't white. I agree that you're not crazy, there would be a difference, and probably not a pretty one.

[stargazer]

I think we all need some excedrin to relieve racial tension.

[crazyoldcatlady]

It's funny there are some things that I feel like a crazy woman for if I said them out loud, for instance, someone posted something in the random links thread that is being shared around the internet for its sweetness, a wedding party bucking tradition by dancing down the aisle. It was very charming but I found I could only enjoy it fully if I divorced my mind from the knowledge of how its meaning would change for most of the people watching it & sharing the link if it were a black wedding. I can't even nail exactly what the differences would be, it's just a gut knowledge that saddens me. I also 'know' that if it were a black wedding and someone posted it at another random forum (not here) I would naturally brace myself for derision in the comments section. I don't know, am I wrong or crazy?

you're not crazy, and in fact, this was addressed in a post at jezebel. off to find the link...

eta: the discussion mainly gets going in the comments section, about 1/2 way down...

[girltrouble]

no, i don't think you are crazy. i followed a link to a prank site, where someone would im people as a prank. they had these fake pictures, and i'm reading these IMs, and they are funny but...

the victims were almost all black, and part of the schtick was that they were hiding behind these pix of black people, and there is a shared cultural knowledge there, but the prankster, being white, had no clue about how these things worked, so from his, and i'm sure some white people's perspective, these black people looked stupid, but to me, it was kind of obvious that from the victim's pov, this was just the sort of normal mating dance, and they assumed the prankster was on the same page. one exchange was particularlly interesting because the prop picture had a girl throwing up her set-- showing her gang affiliation, the prankster unknowingly imed someone who was in another, i assume rival gang and he immediately started talking shit about this girl, and the prankster had no clue as to what the victim was talking about. it was funny to me, because here is this guy pranking from this idea of his superiority, but he has no clue.

[girl_logic]

That interview was intense! Did you listen to the commentary afterward too?

It's funny there are some things that I feel like a crazy woman for if I said them out loud, for instance, someone posted something in the random links thread that is being shared around the internet for its sweetness, a wedding party bucking tradition by dancing down the aisle. It was very charming but I found I could only enjoy it fully if I divorced my mind from the knowledge of how its meaning would change for most of the people watching & sharing the link if it were a black wedding. I can't even nail exactly what the differences would be, it's just a gut knowledge that saddens me. I also 'know' that if it were a black wedding and someone posted it at another random forum (not here) I would naturally brace myself for derision in the comments section. I don't know, am I wrong or crazy?

[stargazer]

I was able to find a live interview with Noel Ignatiev. Poor sound quality.

GT, thanks for the reference to him. I'm sure I talked about Noel Ignatiev in my political science course years ago where we talked about marxism, etc. I will say that one thing I was struck by when reading his background through wiki...for someone who rejected or wants to reject white privilege, terminology, etc....I'm surprised he chose Harvard for his education. Also, has he addressed the fact that he was able to get into Harvard Graduate School when he didn't have an undergrad degree? Did his privilege play into that? Just curious.

ETA: I'm in the middle of finishing this interview. I give this interviewer lots of credit for being professional during this interview when Noel was acting like an arrogant prick.

[girltrouble]

lol...

yeah it always slays me that most job interviews i have are suprized that i'm black.... and transexual. i guess my phone isn't working properly since it doesn't come up on their caller i.d.


there used to be a very interesting, very provocative website called racetraitor, that i'd always recommend. i think it's gone now, but it's basic idea is that it is not enough to not be racist, one should reject any privilege (particularlly white privilege) that came your way. further you examine your motives to see if you are privileging other white people, and talk to your friends about being race traitors. it's a radical stand, not to mention a tall order, but i think it was a good means of really examining one's life. it's a good thing to look at your predjudices, and we all have them, being a brown kid (the same thing as a person of color), does not exempt you. black peeps don't like africans, and vice versa. as i constantly point out, white people, no matter how well meaning and good hearted, have prejudices, just like the rest of us. the point is to see them and work against them, and once that's done, help others.

here is a brief summary of some of the things espoused on that website, via a wiki post about it's founder:re:race traitor

there is a lot of talk of abolition of the white race, don't let that scare you. to clarify, whiteness, like all other racial classes/classifications are all social constructs-- made up terms -- that have little or no biological grounding. as a historical note, catholics, the irish, italians and other groups were not considered white until the 30's and 40's when the dismantling of jim crow became a larger threat, so whiteness was expanded. to call for the abolition of the white race is to talk clearly about how constructed race is, and to push for the elimination of white privilege.

[auralpoison]

Racism can be a very funny thing. I went to get my nails did yesterday with my auntie. And yes, the salon is owned & operated by a Vietnamese couple. After a year, he finally just up & asked me if I was of mixed race. Not because I am obviously brown, but because I don't talk ghetto. My pattern of speech confused him because I talk "white". I was amused.

[stargazer]

Persiflager, I think you are extremely courageous for taking on this issue. I know it will really challenge how you view yourself, but, if the worse thing is that you learn more about yourself....well, then it seems like worth the introspection. GT and I have talked about the issue that EVERYONE encompasses in terms of prejudiced thinking. You can read about it in the Celebrity Gossip thread. It is so engrained in our culture that no one is immune. I don't care how many friends, lovers, partners, spouses of a different race/ethnicity are in your life....you are affected too. Being a latina, I was surprised how affected I was since I was used to viewing myself more as experiencing the victim of racism if you will. For a diversity class in school, we had to write a paper using four races (Asian, Native American, Latino, African American) to discuss our racist attitudes and stereotypes. At the same time, we were encouraged to discover the origin of these attitudes and beliefs. It was really eye opening for me about my own prejudiced thinking.

I will have to think about some books. I will say that I really loved bell hook's talking back, talking black which added a women's of color perspective about the feminist movement. I read this book in a feminist theory class in undergrad. For me, as a woman of color, she really articulated my struggle with part of the women's movement as feeling like a strictly white woman's movement. An interesting read if you want to read about feminism from a different perspective.

[Persiflager]

*following discussion in confessions thread, delurks to start long, uncomfortable process of examining and deconstructing own internal racism....*

Any tips on where to start? I've never thought of myself as racist (because I'm a nice person! really!) but the thought has recently occurred that that might not be entirely true. I've got a fair few stereotypes tucked away in my consciousness, and I think race does play a factor in how I judge people.

Reading tips would be very welcome!

Thanks.

[girl_logic]

I'm getting old and can't follow anything twitter related at all, but i'm glad this thread is getting some life support.

[anarch]

This piece by Harry Allen about Kirstie Alley twittering in African American stereotypes impresses me. He lays out so well 1. the process of finely calibrating (which I find takes a lot of energy, which in addition to frequency of having to deal with this shit, contributes to what is often perceived as POCs' incomprehensibly short fuses on these topics) how to engage with just one incident of the casual stereotyping many of us have to deal with all the time, and 2. the dismissive reaction that such efforts elicit more often than not.

I like comment #47 especially.

Allen's update on his own site Media Assassin is worth reading too. Not so much the comments. Better comments (ie, not kneejerk, and better informed about context) at Racialicious.

[stargazer]

The idiocy of Bill O'Reilly.

Why is it when the word oppression comes up it becomes a competition in conversation about who has experienced more pain?

[vixen_within]

Ug that's a really irritating promo. You mean they played it over and over? I wouldn't be able to listen to the show they were promoting, it would make me stabby.

[girltrouble]

i am constantly reminded of how just how stupid people can be. i heard this radio promo:
"February has long been black history month, but is it still relevant now that we've elected barack obama?"

ok, wait, because we've got a black president, all black history has evaporated. next your going to tell me there is no such thing as racism. ok, excuse me while i hum "barack the magic negro." really? is their thinking that shallow?

*sigh*

[anarch]

Couple of great links (found in this metafilter thread about the lack of diversity in M. Night Shyamalan's casting choices for his upcoming film based on tv series Avatar):

Ursula K. Le Guin said this:"I have received letters that broke my heart, from adolescents of color in this country and in England, telling me that when they realized that Ged and the other Archipelagans in the Earthsea books are not white people, they felt included in the world of literary and movie fantasy for the first time."— Speech to the Book Expo America children's literature breakfast, June, 4, 2004.

The Art of Defending Racism

[vixen_within]

Will probably have to include a "But I voted for Obama!" square soon. I think there's a feminism related Bingo too.

[stargazer]

omg. that is too funny vixen.