[arj75]

Hello everyone!

I'm not trying to cause a big "probiotic scare" here (I'm actually on the pep squad for them), but I found some information at Wikipedia regarding a strain of bacteria that is in the fem' pros' some of us are taking...

I think it was the L rhamnosus strain...it has been discovered in some certain circumstances to be pathogenic. However, it didn't state what the circumstances were. Does anyone know anything about this? I think we should be aware of what was discovered.

I liked in the article how it mentioned that some people don't have these "good bacteria's in the body ..either wiped out from antibiotics, stress, or being a bottle baby and never getting these bacteria needed from our mothers breast milk....

[cinderflower]

Cinderflower,

I'm sorry..maybe I misunderstand this... (propylene glycol) it is not safe for cats... but "ok" for humans? lol. Is your cat CFO of the FDA? Just curious? lol

No, you understood it. I think I cut and pasted that off wiki, doesn't that just kill you? (I'm going to stoop really low here and make a crude joke: "not 'okay' for cats, perfectly fine for pussy . . . ")

Those retards at the FDA. That's why I hate it that they make such a big stink over supplements when a lot of pharmaceuticals and/or chemicals just aren't healthy. I'm appalled at the old feminine hygiene ads. No wonder women are sticking everything but/under the kitchen sink "up there" (yeah I'm coy at times) in a frantic, panicked effort to smell "dainty and fresh".

My female cat has never ever worked in her life, never will and is proud of it; my five-month-old male kitten is just a psycho retard, so yeah, come to think of it, maybe he is secretly on the board of directors for some government agency. I'm almost certain he couldn't do a worse job.

And CanCan, yeah, I know, for meditation to have any significant kind of effect takes a lot of practice. To be perfectly honest, if you have kids or live with someone, I think it's not so easy. I won't do things like yoga if I don't go to a class, and they're so expensive down here (Lodo, Denver) that I just usually take the path of least cost. I know it sounds goofy, but TM honestly is one of the best practices around. And I'm by far not exactly an airy-fairy kind of person. The breathing is important, so if someone wants to do yoga, or t'ai chi, I would imagine it's all helpful. Look at it like this: if your mantra is, "REEEeeearrRRRRggghhhhHHH" then it has to have some effect on the rest of your body.

[CanCan]

Vitamin C, in Vagina, caused bleeding for me. I do NOT have periods anymore due to a Hysterectomy...so the bleeding must have come from irratation.

I used lemon juice the other day. I squeezed some of it into my hand, used a finger, made sure the finger was totally covered in lemon, and then inserted it all the way in there and moved it around making sure to touch all the crevices inside. It worked well.

However....... I tried this again one day right after sex, and boy was that a mistake. It burned like hell. And then for three days afterward I had pink discharge. Blood. So I think lemon works well, but do not do it after sex if you are dry, or raw.

For some reason the boric acid inserted vaginally after sex doesn't bother me. I guess it is less acidic than lemon. If anyone out there is going to use Vitamin C, I would be careful. In case you have a similar problem. I would experiment with just a little of it. Or maybe better yet, use the 'Today Daily pH Balance Restore Vaginal Vit C' tablets. I haven't tried them yet, but they seem like a good idea.

[CanCan]

I mentioned earlier, when I first joined the site...body temperture....well, this specialist will have you monitor and record your body temp various times throughout the day..to see what is going on with your metabolism.... another factor needed to see what is going on with your body, and can help the doctor to determine what to look for and where to start.

I realize that this is bv forum...but this disorder effects our sex hormones....BV (hormonal?)

Surely you jest. Of course this is a BV forum, but the last time I checked my vagina was connected to the rest of my body. Yes, a friend of mine told me to buy a digital thermometer, and read my basal body temperature first thing every morning. So I have been trying to do that. To see how screwed up my hormones really are! I check it off on a chart. The thing is though that you have to do it for a few months to see what the pattern looks like.

[CanCan]

arj75, I am not being funny--you should meditate. I mean really meditate (if possible). It's free, yoga is expensive, and it does wonders for stress. Laughing is good too but not everyone is a stand-up.

O.k. ladies, I know a lot of us don't have much time, or cash, or inclination to do yoga - but a few friends of mine do it, and have taken me, and I just have to say that it works really well. Probably for numerous different reasons. One being that you breath deeply. That is part of the yoga practice. Another thing, you put your mind somewhere else - - other than your problem. So you are giving your mind a rest. For me, it gives me a chance to stop hyperventilating! And you are moving your body in somewhat unusual poses, so you are moving things around and getting your circulation going. And the stretching is great. But you must keep doing it. You can't just do it a day here and a day there.. it won't do too much. You have to do it a couple of times a week. I am doing this so that I will start to learn how to breath properly. And it seems to be helping so far. I know meditation is great too, but I am not really there yet. I get distracted easily. But holding yoga poses engages your body and your mind - so you do not get distracted with negative thoughts as much! At least that is how it is for me.

[CanCan]

My friend did some research for me..and all of us...laughter it is the best medicine for stress. In my big bag of bullshit, I have a link...http:holistic-online.com/Humor_Therapy/humor_mcghee_article.htm

Yes the research is limited...but humor has shown that laughter reduces at least four neuroendocrine hormones associated with the stress response, including epinephrine, cortisol, dopac, and growth hormone. This is consistent with research showing that various relaxation procedures reduce stress hormones. (hormones levels were checked with this study)

Excellent! Just read this and it makes so much sense. State of mind can influence the state of your body. That is why it's called the 'mind/body connection'. I will try to lighten up. It's hard but, couldn't be too hard if you are watching a funny movie, reading a funny book, etc.

[arj75]

and then there's propylene glycol:

[edit] Safety
The Food and Drug Administration has determined that propylene glycol in or on cat food has not been shown by adequate scientific data to be safe for use. Use of propylene glycol in or on cat food causes the feed to be adulterated and in violation of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. 21CFR589.1001

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has determined propylene glycol to be "generally recognized as safe" for use in food, cosmetics, and medicines. Like ethylene glycol, propylene glycol affects the body's chemistry by increasing the amount of acid. Propylene glycol is metabolized into lactic acid, which occurs naturally as muscles are exercised, while ethylene glycol is metabolized into oxalic acid, which is toxic.


yeah, I don't think I'd be tempted to use it . . .

Cinderflower,

I'm sorry..maybe I misunderstand this... (propylene glycol) it is not safe for cats... but "ok" for humans? lol. Is your cat CFO of the FDA? Just curious? lol

[cinderflower]

okay i found an old one:

Lysol consists essentially of cresol, a drug similar in action to carbolic acid. Contrary to advertisements, it is neither safe nor effective for the purposes for which it is claimed to be useful. In fact, there are reports of injuries and deaths which can be traced directly to the use of Lysol.

Zonite is essentially a solution of sodium hypochlorite in water. Although not as irritating as Lysol, it should not be used as a douche either for "daintiness" or contraception. It is superfluous as far as daintiness goes; it is futile for purposes of contraception; and it may cause injury to the genital organs.

the entire article is under http://www.oldandsold.com/articles35/healt...dicine-60.shtml

[cinderflower]

It was a product made so that women could avoid this:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

I have no idea what was in it, but I would bet that it was scary. I remember seeing it in the bathroom in the sixties. I thought they had stopped making it but it looks like you can still buy it. The formula must have been changed since then but I get a kick out of the old ads like this one:

http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/B...213-150dpi.jpeg

I decided to look up some of the ingredients used in it now, and one is thymol:

Thymol
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Thymol

Chemical name 5-methyl-2-(1-methylethyl)phenol
Chemical formula C10H14O
Molecular mass 150.22 g/mol
CAS number [89-83-8]
Density 0.96 g/cm3
Melting point 48-52 °C
Boiling point 232 °C
SMILES CC1=CC(O)=C(C©C)C=C1
Disclaimer and references
Thymol is a monoterpene phenol derivative of cymene, C10H13OH, isomeric with carvacrol, found in oil of thyme, and extracted as a white crystalline substance of a pleasant aromatic odor and strong antiseptic properties. It is also called "hydroxy cymene". (from Webster's 1913 dictionary)

It has been found to be useful in controlling varroa mites in bee colonies.[1]A minor use is in bookbinding: before rebinding, books with mould damage can be sealed in bags with thymol crystals to kill fungal spores. It is also used as a preservative in halothane, an anaesthetic.

In a 1994 report released by five top cigarette companies, thymol was listed as one of 599 additives to cigarettes.[2] It is added to improve the flavor.


another is:

Benzalkonium chloride
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Benzalkonium chloride

Molar mass (mixture)
CAS number [8001-54-5]
EINECS number 264-151-6
Properties
Density 0.98
Solubility in water very soluble
Hazards
EU classification Xi
NFPA 704
010
R-phrases R21/22, R34, R50
S-phrases S36/37/39, S45, S61
RTECS number BO3150000
Except where noted otherwise, data are given for
materials in their standard state
(at 25 °C, 100 kPa)
Infobox disclaimer and references
Benzalkonium chloride (alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride) is a mixture of alkylbenzyl dimethylammonium chlorides of various alkyl chain lengths. It is commonly used as an antiseptic and spermicide. This product is a nitrogenous cationic surface-acting agent belonging to the quaternary ammonium group. The greatest bactericidal activity is associated with the C12-C14 alkyl derivatives.

It has been considered one of the safest synthetic biocides known, and has a long history of efficacious use. However, conflicting studies cast doubt on its reputation for safety.[1][2] Some products have been reformulated in light of this research, but it is still widely used in eyewashes, hand and face washes, mouthwashes, spermicidal creams, and in various other cleaners, sanitizers, and disinfectants. It is also used as an annual treatment for the elimination of bacteria in water within waterbeds. However, manufacturers of OTC artificial tears and eye washes became concerned about chemical sensitivity from long-term daily use and have in some products substituted EDTA as a preservative and have added "for sensitive eyes" to labeling. There has also been concern that long-term use of benzalkonium as a preservative in nose sprays may cause swelling of mucosa and lead to Rhinitis medicamentosa. Some manufacturers have put 3-day limits on safe use of such nose sprays.

Applications are extremely wide ranging, from disinfectant formulations to microbial corrosion inhibition in the oilfield sector. It is often used to disinfect skin prior to withdrawing blood for Blood Alcohol Content ("BAC") tests because it contains no alcohol and cannot be said to taint the BAC test.

Benzalkonium chloride is readily soluble in water, alcohol, and acetone. Formulation requires great care as Benzalkonium can be inactivated by certain organic compounds, including soap, and must not be mixed with anionic surfactants. Hard water salts can also reduce biocidal activity. Although newer formulations are more resistant to deactivation, as with any disinfectant, it is recommended that surfaces are rinsed well before disinfection.

Aqueous solutions of benzalkonium chloride are neutral to slightly alkaline, colorless, and nonstaining. Solutions foam profusely when shaken, have a bitter taste, and a faint almond-like odour, which is only detectable in concentrated solutions.

The mechanism of bactericidal/microbicidal action is thought to be due to disruption of intermolecular interactions. This can cause dissociation of cellular membrane bilayers, which compromises cellular permeability controls and induces leakage of cellular contents. Other biomolecular complexes within the bacterial cell can also undergo dissociation. Enzymes, which finely control a plethora of respiratory and metabolic cellular activities, are particularly susceptible to deactivation. Critical intermolecular interactions and tertiary structures in such highly specific biochemical systems can be readily disrupted by cationic surfactants.

Benzalkonium chloride solutions are rapidly acting anti-infective agents with a moderately long duration of action. They are active against bacteria and some viruses, fungi, and protozoa. Bacterial spores are considered to be resistant. Solutions are bacteriostatic or bactericidal according to their concentration. Gram-positive bacteria are generally more susceptible than gram-negative. Activity is not greatly affected by pH, but increases substantially at higher temperatures and prolonged exposure times.

and then there's propylene glycol:

[edit] Safety
The Food and Drug Administration has determined that propylene glycol in or on cat food has not been shown by adequate scientific data to be safe for use. Use of propylene glycol in or on cat food causes the feed to be adulterated and in violation of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. 21CFR589.1001

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has determined propylene glycol to be "generally recognized as safe" for use in food, cosmetics, and medicines. Like ethylene glycol, propylene glycol affects the body's chemistry by increasing the amount of acid. Propylene glycol is metabolized into lactic acid, which occurs naturally as muscles are exercised, while ethylene glycol is metabolized into oxalic acid, which is toxic.

Post menopausal women who require the use of an estrogen cream may notice that brand name creams made with propylene glycol often create extreme, uncomfortable burning along the vulva and perianal area. In these cases, patients can request that a local compounding pharmacy make a "propylene glycol free" cream which is much more tolerable.

Patients with vulvodynia and interstitial cystitis may be especially sensitive to propylene glycol. Women struggling with yeast infections may also notice that some OTC creams can cause intense burning.[1]

yeah, I don't think I'd be tempted to use it . . .

[arj75]

Cinderflower, what the hell is Zonite. (not that I am planning to make a purchase lol).

Oh, I think I may have found a doctor who does know where is asshole is, and better yet, where my thyroid gland is. I tracked down a specialist (2 hours away). Postpartum thyroidism?, I was asked to fax him my T-cell count from last test I had. The office is trying to work me in as soon as they can. My worries are that this disorder can either A. Progress to Grave's disease, B. progress to hypothyriodism or C. get better naturally(I am hoping). I guess my major concern is that my grandmother and mother both have hypothyroidism. (which I didn't find out until today) You'd think that someone would have mentioned this to me at some point....

Also, CANCAN, thank you for suggesting sublingual B- complex (if that was you) I don't remember. I have noticed enough difference from using those, in such a short time, (switched from just using the tabs) that I am gonna start getting B-injections this week!

[cinderflower]

my kitten sat on the keyboard. (which may or may not have contributed to the double post . . . )

[cinderflower]

About HP: I came out as "not recommended" on my blog - was being extra-cautious. Here's my take on it - I have tried HP after reading about it in this thread. (I used a rubber bulb syringe and used HP straight, without diluting it with water.) I only used it once and it didn't kill me, or cause any lasting damage that I know of. So if you're looking for quick odor-control, it's a solution.

But it's not a long-term cure, and long-term use may cause problems.

I have to agree with "not recommended" for hydrogen peroxide (if that's what you're referring to with HP--I have a hewlett-packard so that's what HP brings to my mind) (ha). Hydrogen peroxide not only destroys "bad" bacteria but it also destroys healthy tissue. That is another reason why healthcare professionals discourage its use as a disinfectant for wounds. Sterile saline is generally suggested instead. I honestly wouldn't use it as a douche, regardless of its effect on odor. Remember, women in the fifties used Zonite douche and Lysol.

[lori]

YEAH, WELCOME BACK LORI!!! Thanks for putting your board back up!!!

Thanks Jewels!

hi all.

i am new to this forum. and wanted to say that I have been suffering from BV for a few years now!! it is very much a recurrent problem that continues to occur no matter what i do!! iam only 23 and I am scared to hav sex because of the smell.
2 years ago I was diagnosed as having the HPV, and was told that i had CIN 1. I read from som1 thread that they think that having the HPV and having BV are somhow related.!!! i was wondering if anyone else who had the HPV, also had BV. also i heard about this jamu stick, which claims to eliminate smells and discharge!!! it is only now that I have realised that I have a problem and that it is recurrent, what kind of treatments are you guys using for BV? please can u give me som ideas as have no clue. I went to the clinic an was told that I shoud use a syringe and squirt 1% of hydrogen peroxide inside, which studies hav shown to help with the hormone imbalance whch causes the BV. i am too scared to put the acid up there, as iam scared of it fizzing or somting!!!
please can som1 help me, as I am at the end of my witts end. and need to sort out this problem before it ruins my relationship for good.
many thanks

Hello saint,

This is my section on HP from my blog (just updated; link is in my sig):

Hydrogen peroxide (HP) douche/wash

• Description:
• Where to Buy / Cost:
• How to use: place towel on bathroom floor and lie down; methods used to deliver HP into the vagina - plastic funnel, medicine spoon/dropper, commercial douche, rubber bulb syringe
• Pros: HP is an anti-infective, and will probably kill the bad bacteria at least on the surface
  Research on HP:
  • Utilisation of hydrogen peroxide in the treatment of recurrent bacterial vaginosis
  • gentlebirth.org, a midwife's suggestions on how to use HP
• Cons:
  • commercial-grade peroxide (2.5%-3%) may break down tissue over time
  • also kills the good bacteria, causing "vicious cycle"
  • repeated use caused dryness
  • one member reported that her vagina became "discolored" as observed by her gynecologist (!)
  • another member experienced brown discharge and bleeding after sex
• Conclusion: possibly harmful, not recommended; consult your doctor

About the midwife site (gentlebirth.org) - she recommends Gy-natren - I've tried this product, and it's horrible. Really messed me up. Don't use it. (more info. in my blog)

About HP: I came out as "not recommended" on my blog - was being extra-cautious. Here's my take on it - I have tried HP after reading about it in this thread. (I used a rubber bulb syringe and used HP straight, without diluting it with water.) I only used it once and it didn't kill me, or cause any lasting damage that I know of. So if you're looking for quick odor-control, it's a solution.

But it's not a long-term cure, and long-term use may cause problems. The two big reasons why I'm always urging people to work with their doctors instead of trying to treat this problem at home are:

1) Upper-genital-tract health - more and more research is showing that untreated BV can screw with your reproductive system; home treatments will not help this, and may only mask symptoms
2) It could be something else. There is a possibility that you could have an STD without knowing it (it happens!) or another type of vaginitis. You would definitely want to know about this, and get the right treatments.

I know doctors are often clueless or dismissive. (Trust me, I've had my share of idiot doctors.) But your best hope of really fixing this problem is to try and find the least assholey doctor you can find and work with him/her.

Having said that, I also think the best solution is probiotics. The good bacteria produces HP which keeps the bad bacteria from taking over and causing BV
--> so you can try to replace the HP (short-term solution), or
--> try to replace the good bacteria (long-term solution)

That's a quick, short-hand way to think about it.

Read my blog for the research on fem-dophilus, which works for me. I'm not trying to be a shill, but the research on probiotics makes a lot of sense. And oral probiotics are safe to use. So that is my best recommendation to you.

[Morphia]

Is it just me or do they not give you enough cream for 7 days? I think they do this on purpose so you have to get more than just one tube. More money for the drug companies!

Anyway, last night was day five of my 14 days of Cleocin cream and there is FINALLY a LITTLE reduction in symptoms. But its so small I can hardly consider it acknowledgeable. I'll continue to be a Negative Nancy and venture to guess that this is NOT going to work. I've been right before...

[sassy]

hi all.

i am new to this forum. and wanted to say that I have been suffering from BV for a few years now!! it is very much a recurrent problem that continues to occur no matter what i do!! iam only 23 and I am scared to hav sex because of the smell.
2 years ago I was diagnosed as having the HPV, and was told that i had CIN 1. I read from som1 thread that they think that having the HPV and having BV are somhow related.!!! i was wondering if anyone else who had the HPV, also had BV. also i heard about this jamu stick, which claims to eliminate smells and discharge!!! it is only now that I have realised that I have a problem and that it is recurrent, what kind of treatments are you guys using for BV? please can u give me som ideas as have no clue. I went to the clinic an was told that I shoud use a syringe and squirt 1% of hydrogen peroxide inside, which studies hav shown to help with the hormone imbalance whch causes the BV. i am too scared to put the acid up there, as iam scared of it fizzing or somting!!!
please can som1 help me, as I am at the end of my witts end. and need to sort out this problem before it ruins my relationship for good.
many thanks

Jamu stick does not work. I think it made some girls on here painfully dry.

Many girls have used hydrogen peroxide. There is no reason to be scared of using it. It helps a little with the smell, but overall, I didn't think it was helpful enough to continue using it.

[jewelscando]

YEAH, WELCOME BACK LORI!!! Thanks for putting your board back up!!!

Vitamin C, in Vagina, caused bleeding for me. I do NOT have periods anymore due to a Hysterectomy...so the bleeding must have come from irratation.

Ladies...anything you decide to stick up your vagina...consult with a doctor first....

[saint]

hi all.

i am new to this forum. and wanted to say that I have been suffering from BV for a few years now!! it is very much a recurrent problem that continues to occur no matter what i do!! iam only 23 and I am scared to hav sex because of the smell.
2 years ago I was diagnosed as having the HPV, and was told that i had CIN 1. I read from som1 thread that they think that having the HPV and having BV are somhow related.!!! i was wondering if anyone else who had the HPV, also had BV. also i heard about this jamu stick, which claims to eliminate smells and discharge!!! it is only now that I have realised that I have a problem and that it is recurrent, what kind of treatments are you guys using for BV? please can u give me som ideas as have no clue. I went to the clinic an was told that I shoud use a syringe and squirt 1% of hydrogen peroxide inside, which studies hav shown to help with the hormone imbalance whch causes the BV. i am too scared to put the acid up there, as iam scared of it fizzing or somting!!!
please can som1 help me, as I am at the end of my witts end. and need to sort out this problem before it ruins my relationship for good.
many thanks

[arj75]

Welcome back Lori,

Your right the Zapper sucks!

[lori]

hi all - i'm new here...if nothing else, it's nice to know i'm not alone with this...

question: has anyone's had any success using vitamin C tablets?

this has probably been asked an answered already so if someone could point me to the post (assuming one exists), i'd really appreciate it...thanks in advance!

*trying to smile*

Hi mermaidgirl,

This is my section re: Vit.C from my blog:

Today Vaginal Vitamin C Tablets

• Description: Vaginal tablets (Today pH Balance Restore / Today Daily pH Balance)
• Where to Buy / Cost: drugstore.com, The Today Store
• Pros:
• Cons:
• Conclusion: *Please make sure to not use regular Vitamin C oral tablets instead of this product. Oral tablets contain binders and other elements which can irritate you. Bust members have tried using regular Vitamin C oral tablets vaginally and have experienced burning and bleeding. Don't do it!

I actually bought the Today tablets (expensive!), but I haven't used them. (I've been doing well since I started taking fem-dophilus (probiotics), so I don't want to mess with things.) When someone else asked the same question before, no one else replied - so it looks like no one else has tried them.

Hope that helps!

[arj75]

Hey everyone,

So I was researching thyroid dysfunctions and found some more information regarding it. Also, the article discussed of how EASY thyroid problems are missed..just getting t-cell counts isn't always good enough to detect the problem. (Dr. Robert Jay Schwartz)

The way I eat...I should weight 3 tons...for real

I mentioned earlier, when I first joined the site...body temperture....well, this specialist will have you monitor and record your body temp various times throughout the day..to see what is going on with your metabolism.... another factor needed to see what is going on with your body, and can help the doctor to determine what to look for and where to start.

I realize that this is bv forum...but this disorder effects our sex hormones....BV (hormonal?)