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> Bacterial Vaginosis--or--embarrassing bad smell
sassy
post Jun 14 2007, 07:09 AM
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Just to add to the STD convo...I have had one STD and I had no symptoms at all. My gyno just happened to test for it because she thought my BV symptoms could be something worse. I had been dating the guy for a little while and apparently he had it first and had never had symptoms either. It's really scary that you could have something without knowing it. Which is why I think that everyone here, if they haven't already, should definately get tested to rule that out. I took the antibiotics for the STD and nothing really changed...still had BV and all so it was kind of weird.
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lori
post Jun 14 2007, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE(arj75 @ Jun 13 2007, 09:23 PM) *
I do think that trich can be missed, (early stages?) I will read that article again.... but, (for me) I think if I had trich that my worms would have a pretty damn large family by now being that I have had bv for far too long.

It apparently takes less Flagyl to kill Trich than it does BV, so if you've taken a full course of Flagyl at some point, it should have killed it, hopefully.

Just want to emphasize again, though - I'm not saying any of us have undiagnosed Trich. It's just a theory. If you consider the numbers:

- only 10% of men have symptoms
- only 10-15% or women have specific symptoms
- only 60-70% diagnosed by wet prep

... the logical conclusion is that there are some women falling through the cracks. Again, I'm not saying we should all run out and get Trich cultures tomorrow. Just one of the many things to consider - if you're getting re-infected by unprotected sex over and over again.

Another possibility to consider that I read about in The V Book - some men have semen that kills lactobacillus! (Oh great.) There's no way to treat this, or even test for it. So in the end, there's nothing you can do but just use condoms.

I just think it's useful to be aware of all the possibilities.


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jewelscando
post Jun 13 2007, 11:44 PM
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Well, who knows. I have been checked over and over and over again for STD's, and never diagnosed with Trich. My ex was also tested, and prescribed Flagyl...to no avail. So...I agree, Trich could be present..but I don't have the symptoms. Other then the smell. No yellowish green discharge. Just the white stuff. Oh well...sorry to cause a stir guys...just wanted to say hi. Obviously...Lori still feels she's the queen...so...LONG LIVE THE QUEEN!!!

No need to reply...I won't play that game again!!!
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arj75
post Jun 13 2007, 10:06 PM
Post #3284


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QUOTE(lori @ Jun 13 2007, 04:56 PM) *
Thanks for the info. However, this link says that the wet prep is not that accurate for diagnosing Trich:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/259/8/1223

"wet-mount examination detected only 53 (60%) of the cases ..."

Again, I am NOT saying anyone has Trich. But based on these stats, I think it's worth considering as a possibility for some women who are getting re-infected over and over after unprotected sex from the same guy.
I have no idea what you mean. Flagyl apparently treats Trich, too.


Lori, what I mean is the fda passed a drug to treat BV...that had only a 38% success rate? ( I think that's what it was...I'm not going back to read it, because I'm not interested in taking a drug that was passed out of pure desperate measures to treat bv. (I think the FDA is getting worried about a riot of angry women who have gone insane from dealing with bv. lol I also think they are concerned with bv a bit more now too...knowing it increases risk of contracting HIV.

I do think that trich can be missed, (early stages?) I will read that article again.... but, (for me) I think if I had trich that my worms would have a pretty damn large family by now being that I have had bv for far too long.

I did a little bit of digging on cholesterol...dietary guidelines for fats (lipids) is 20 to 35% of energy intake. I'll find the grams later...
The good sources should come from fish and nuts. We want polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fatty acids. (vegetable oils)
Interesting info (for me at least) People from cultures who consume a lot seafood in their diets....these countries (or area's) have lower rates for depression. And, fish (omega- 3 fatty acids) suppress inflammatory responses ( itis) = inflammation. (I'm the itis girl...some other ladies here are too, I am sure.) Supplements of omega's though don't do much...some say they are dangerous... (made from soy)...

I would love to attach links of information that I find, if I knew how...I'm sure it's simple. A lot of this information that I do find..is not online, but from science professors, nutrition books, and a lot of medical journals from online or the library.... I need a scanner.

Dietary fibers......digested ( in a way) by GI tract bacteria (hmm) ...there are soluble and insoluble fibers (bacteria in GI tract digest insoluble ) bran, (yuck), celery, (yuck), hulls of seeds, (yuck) skins of corn kernels..(ok, but how many ears of corn shall I eat....I will look into it......
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lori
post Jun 13 2007, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE(neverending @ Jun 13 2007, 07:05 AM) *
Uhm, I used to do wet preps and let me tell you Trich is very noticable on a slide. Even when the doctors didn't test for Trich we would know if the person had it or not. I remember getting a urine culture in. The person thought she had a UTI but what we found was Trich floating around in the urine. Trich is a parasite with flagella. I wish you all could see them under a microscope. It will make your skin crawl.
Here is a link as to what they look like:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...2006-47,GFRC:en

Thanks for the info. However, this link says that the wet prep is not that accurate for diagnosing Trich:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/259/8/1223

"wet-mount examination detected only 53 (60%) of the cases ..."

Again, I am NOT saying anyone has Trich. But based on these stats, I think it's worth considering as a possibility for some women who are getting re-infected over and over after unprotected sex from the same guy.

QUOTE(arj75 @ Jun 13 2007, 10:24 AM) *
Ladies the FDA passes tenamax (whatever the fucking name is) (with a 38% success rate) maybe not that low, but low enough for me to question their ethics. If you ask me why that drug was passed....I think it was to save insurance costs for wet slids.... Maybe I'm way off, but thats exactly how I feel. Isn't that drug used to kill trich? (not for sure if it was or not)

I'm losing all trust in the fda, doctors, and insurance companies......

I have no idea what you mean. Flagyl apparently treats Trich, too.


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neverending
post Jun 13 2007, 01:01 PM
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Jewels: Welcome back! smile.gif
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arj75
post Jun 13 2007, 11:07 AM
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QUOTE(neverending @ Jun 13 2007, 09:05 AM) *
Uhm, I used to do wet preps and let me tell you Trich is very noticable on a slide. Even when the doctors didn't test for Trich we would know if the person had it or not. I remember getting a urine culture in. The person thought she had a UTI but what we found was Trich floating around in the urine. Trich is a parasite with flagella. I wish you all could see them under a microscope. It will make your skin crawl.
Here is a link as to what they look like:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...2006-47,GFRC:en


Ummm, I'm here too bitch, and to make an apology to jewels (I have been feeling pretty bad about it actually). As if I have been suffering from bv for as long as she has...I would be taking matters into my own hands as well. Ladies the FDA passes tenamax (whatever the fucking name is) (with a 38% success rate) maybe not that low, but low enough for me to question their ethics. If you ask me why that drug was passed....I think it was to save insurance costs for wet slids.... Maybe I'm way off, but thats exactly how I feel. Isn't that drug used to kill trich? (not for sure if it was or not)

I'm losing all trust in the fda, doctors, and insurance companies......
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neverending
post Jun 13 2007, 07:48 AM
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QUOTE(lori @ Jun 13 2007, 07:51 AM) *
I covered this in my latest blog entry, but I have a theory about this - If having unprotected sex keeps causing BV, it could be Trichomoniasis. (Keep in mind, this is just a theory.)
  • According to the CDC, "Most men with trichomoniasis do not have signs or symptoms." blink.gif
  • Trichmoniasis shows up on a wet prep only 70% of the time. blink.gif [*according to The V Book] To get a firm diagnosis, you need a lab culture.
  • also according to The V Book, Trichmoniasis symptoms (foul odor, frothy yellow-green discharge) only presents in 10-15% of women who have it, because they usually have it along with BV - so the BV symptoms (fishy odor, milky-gray discharge) are noticed more blink.gif (Not to mention that they are pretty similar symptoms anyway.)
So based on these facts, it's possible that some women have Trich infections that go undiagnosed. A course of flagyl will cure a Trich infection, but they are continually re-infected by their man who doesn't know he has it too.

Keep in mind, it's just a theory.

I knew very little about Trich before, and I don't think this applies to me personally. (Some of my recurrences happened when I was not having sex at all.) But reading about Trich makes me think that this might be the case for some women who always have recurrences after unprotected sex.


Uhm, I used to do wet preps and let me tell you Trich is very noticable on a slide. Even when the doctors didn't test for Trich we would know if the person had it or not. I remember getting a urine culture in. The person thought she had a UTI but what we found was Trich floating around in the urine. Trich is a parasite with flagella. I wish you all could see them under a microscope. It will make your skin crawl.
Here is a link as to what they look like:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...2006-47,GFRC:en

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lori
post Jun 13 2007, 06:18 AM
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QUOTE(sassy @ Jun 13 2007, 04:11 AM) *
Lori--I was tested for trich before when I couldn't get rid of my BV and it was negative. I've been tested for everything actually.

I've been tested for every STD ever known to mankind, too. I've been in a monogamous relationship for 7 years (which is as long as I've had BV, which sucks) with periods of long-distance-celibacy in between. So I don't think I'm at risk for STD's, but all my GYN's insist on testing me each time. I'm perfectly fine with it, and I understand why they need to do it. But it's always funny to see them try to say to me in a nice way - "Your man could be messing around with a dirty skank-whore behind your back! And that's why we need to check you for gonorrhea for the umpteenth time!"

QUOTE(sassy @ Jun 13 2007, 04:11 AM) *
But I think in some women, your theory is probably right. Doctors are lazy and probably just assume its BV.

Yeah, I was pretty amazed when I read that "most" men who have Trich don't even have symptoms. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention during my junior high sex ed. class.


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sassy
post Jun 13 2007, 04:54 AM
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Metrogel has never given me a yeast infection. I like it a lot more than Flagyl because it has less side effects and I found it to work for longer periods of time.

Lori--I was tested for trich before when I couldn't get rid of my BV and it was negative. I've been tested for everything actually. But I think in some women, your theory is probably right. Doctors are lazy and probably just assume its BV.
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Morphia
post Jun 13 2007, 03:41 AM
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QUOTE(jewelscando @ Jun 12 2007, 09:08 PM) *
Hello Everyone...

I've stayed quiet...but wanted to give my friends an update.

I've done alot of research on the boric acid, being that I can't personally take it. I think I figured out why I had such a bad alergic reaction to it. The pesticide Boric Acid contains Sulfer.. I am alergic to any and all sulfer products, ie. Bactrium (anti biotic) and Water pills...I guess they all have some kind of Sulfer in them. "Boric acid is produced mainly from borate minerals by the reaction with sulfuric acid". So Sassy...this is the reason why I broke out in that horrible bleeding rash.. And my doctors did say that I was having an Internal Alergic reaction to something. Obviously, had they known the ingredients in the Boric, they would have been able to figure it out. So..... anyone that is alergice to Bactrium....do not take Boric Acid either.

For me...I've found a few things that I now realize what the cause of my B.V. was. My ex boyfriend....He is the culprit. How do I know??? Well, let's see...I had B.V. 1 time about 12yrs ago or so..only to return Five years ago, which was right after I met my ex. We were together for 5yrs. In which time, I had B.V. more times then I can count.

Since we broke up...we've had sex a few times, and of course, everytime, without fail...my b.v. returns. SO.... I have a new boyfriend!!! Actually, he's an old friend from my past...and we finally got together. We have had sex probably 5 times in the past two weeks, AND NO B.V. The last time I used FLAGYL VAGINALLY was right before he and I started talking which was about a month ago. So..with that being said...I'm not sure if it's the new boyfriend or it was the FLAGYL Vaginally that has taken my B.V. away.

Either way...I'm still B.V. free on my end here!! I went to the doctor again a few weeks ago..and spoke to them again about the Flagyl Vaginally. He said, the pill is just in Powder Form. They make it both in pill and gel. There's nothing wrong with inserting it vaginally. BUT...THAT'S JUST WHAT MY DOCTOR SAID!! Ask yours for advice as well!!

Hope all is well. Never Ending...could you please give me the info on your Estroil? Just PM me if you would!!

Thanks!!


Hey, jewels! I'm glad to know you found your trigger. I don't have a trigger. Mine just plain won't go away. I'm going to try metrogel this time. My doctor is doing metrogel for 7 days, then once a week for a month. then once a month for four months. But I can't start on the metrogel until I get rid of this yeast infection. :'(

I do need to know something. Many of you have stated that Flagyl gives you a yeast infection. I got one from using it too. Does metrogel have a lower occurrence of yeast infections for you ladies? Thanks!
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lori
post Jun 13 2007, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE(jewelscando @ Jun 12 2007, 07:08 PM) *
For me...I've found a few things that I now realize what the cause of my B.V. was. My ex boyfriend....He is the culprit. How do I know??? Well, let's see...I had B.V. 1 time about 12yrs ago or so..only to return Five years ago, which was right after I met my ex. We were together for 5yrs. In which time, I had B.V. more times then I can count.

Since we broke up...we've had sex a few times, and of course, everytime, without fail...my b.v. returns.


I covered this in my latest blog entry, but I have a theory about this - If having unprotected sex keeps causing BV, it could be Trichomoniasis. (Keep in mind, this is just a theory.)
  • According to the CDC, "Most men with trichomoniasis do not have signs or symptoms." blink.gif
  • Trichmoniasis shows up on a wet prep only 70% of the time. blink.gif [*according to The V Book] To get a firm diagnosis, you need a lab culture.
  • also according to The V Book, Trichmoniasis symptoms (foul odor, frothy yellow-green discharge) only presents in 10-15% of women who have it, because they usually have it along with BV - so the BV symptoms (fishy odor, milky-gray discharge) are noticed more blink.gif (Not to mention that they are pretty similar symptoms anyway.)
So based on these facts, it's possible that some women have Trich infections that go undiagnosed. A course of flagyl will cure a Trich infection, but they are continually re-infected by their man who doesn't know he has it too.

Keep in mind, it's just a theory.

I knew very little about Trich before, and I don't think this applies to me personally. (Some of my recurrences happened when I was not having sex at all.) But reading about Trich makes me think that this might be the case for some women who always have recurrences after unprotected sex.


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jewelscando
post Jun 12 2007, 07:51 PM
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Hello Everyone...

I've stayed quiet...but wanted to give my friends an update.

I've done alot of research on the boric acid, being that I can't personally take it. I think I figured out why I had such a bad alergic reaction to it. The pesticide Boric Acid contains Sulfer.. I am alergic to any and all sulfer products, ie. Bactrium (anti biotic) and Water pills...I guess they all have some kind of Sulfer in them. "Boric acid is produced mainly from borate minerals by the reaction with sulfuric acid". So Sassy...this is the reason why I broke out in that horrible bleeding rash.. And my doctors did say that I was having an Internal Alergic reaction to something. Obviously, had they known the ingredients in the Boric, they would have been able to figure it out. So..... anyone that is alergice to Bactrium....do not take Boric Acid either.

For me...I've found a few things that I now realize what the cause of my B.V. was. My ex boyfriend....He is the culprit. How do I know??? Well, let's see...I had B.V. 1 time about 12yrs ago or so..only to return Five years ago, which was right after I met my ex. We were together for 5yrs. In which time, I had B.V. more times then I can count.

Since we broke up...we've had sex a few times, and of course, everytime, without fail...my b.v. returns. SO.... I have a new boyfriend!!! Actually, he's an old friend from my past...and we finally got together. We have had sex probably 5 times in the past two weeks, AND NO B.V. The last time I used FLAGYL VAGINALLY was right before he and I started talking which was about a month ago. So..with that being said...I'm not sure if it's the new boyfriend or it was the FLAGYL Vaginally that has taken my B.V. away.

Either way...I'm still B.V. free on my end here!! I went to the doctor again a few weeks ago..and spoke to them again about the Flagyl Vaginally. He said, the pill is just in Powder Form. They make it both in pill and gel. There's nothing wrong with inserting it vaginally. BUT...THAT'S JUST WHAT MY DOCTOR SAID!! Ask yours for advice as well!!

Hope all is well. Never Ending...could you please give me the info on your Estroil? Just PM me if you would!!

Thanks!!

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pixiedust
post Jun 12 2007, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE(kattkiddy @ Jun 8 2007, 09:57 PM) *
blink.gif wow i cant believe all that i am reading. i am so confused about all of this. i am 30 years old currently with BV and it has been reoccuring for at least two years. i didnt realize that strep infection causes bv. i had group b strep with both of my deliveries and had to have penicillin in an iv. i am also currently pregnant with my third baby. i am very concerned about bv because of the effects it can have on baby. lets see since ive been pregnant,11wks, ive had bv 3 times. first clindess, then keflex????never heard of that being effective. then i was still having symptoms and they said i was fine after looking under a microscope. i did a urine sample the day i was there at the doctor. the office called me the next day and said i had gardnerella in my urine and gave me metrogel. first of if it is strep how do they test for it and second how fo they treat it?????? can anyone help me????????


Hey, I am pg for the second time and am Strep B positive again for the second time. They do routinely test for it with a vaginal swab between 35-37 weeks. I found out early this time because I've had some UTI's and it showed up in a urine culture. Like Lori said it is just another thing that goes on down there. There does seem to be a correlation between Strep B and UTI's...I hadn't heard anything about BV. It is also very normal for pg women to have a lot more discharge than normal.


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lori
post Jun 12 2007, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE(arj75 @ Jun 12 2007, 12:44 PM) *
Yes, Anti-bacterial soap is very alkaline, but it's still under debate....

There is no debate about whether most brands of soap (not just anti-bacterial soap) is alkaline.

QUOTE(arj75 @ Jun 12 2007, 12:44 PM) *
I have read several articles from doctors (not selling antibacterial soap lol) who have suggested doing this.

Can you cite them, please? I'm not challenging you or doubting you. But when you say you've read something, it would be helpful if you cited them.

And I'm fully aware that some ladies wash with antibacterial soap and it's the best decision for them. (I even wrote that in my blog - this is a YMMV situation - everyone makes their own choice.) But you said that all women should try this, without presenting the other view. All I was doing was presenting the other view so people can make an informed choice.

Here's an article that says that using antibiotic soaps on regular skin *may* create resistance:

http://www.slate.com/id/2129213/#soap


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arj75
post Jun 12 2007, 01:27 PM
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Soap is very alkaline and can mess up the pH balance. Anti-bacterial soap can kill the good bacteria. Doctors routinely suggest washing the vagina with plain water or a pH balanced cleanser. (Dove is pH balanced and non-alkali.)
[/quote]

Yes, Anti-bacterial soap is very alkaline, but it's still under debate....I have read several articles from doctors (not selling antibacterial soap lol) who have suggested doing this.

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sassy
post Jun 12 2007, 12:33 PM
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It's also important to add what happens to a lot of Asians when they move to the United States. I know that when my step-mother and sister moved here, they both ate really healthy and differently than my family did. However, the longer they spent in the U.S., the more they began to eat like us. So I think Asians that come here might not really have any advantages over individuals born in the U.S. because they pick up all of our bad habits anyway!
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lori
post Jun 12 2007, 11:40 AM
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QUOTE(sassy @ Jun 12 2007, 10:52 AM) *
Your insight is very interesting, Lori. Thanks for sharing! I have a Filipino step-mom and step-sister. I know that my step-sister has had issues with BV as well. She is 21 (a year younger than me) and lived in the Phillippines until she was 14. So I don't really know what that says but I thought I would share.

You're welcome, Sassy. As an Asian(-American) women who suffers from BV, I can definitely say that being Asian alone does not offer any type of protection. laugh.gif And I do know that the disease exists in Asia - I've read about it in women's magazines, although I guess it's not as widespread according to arj75.

--

Wanted to add another possible factor - in Japan and Korea, many households use washlet/bidet toilet seats that wash you with warm water. And of course, Europeans often use bidets.


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sassy
post Jun 12 2007, 11:35 AM
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Your insight is very interesting, Lori. Thanks for sharing! I have a Filipino step-mom and step-sister. I know that my step-sister has had issues with BV as well. She is 21 (a year younger than me) and lived in the Phillippines until she was 14. So I don't really know what that says but I thought I would share.
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lori
post Jun 12 2007, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE(sciongal @ Jun 11 2007, 06:15 PM) *
HI there, I tried inserting femdophilus vaginally and it gave me the weirdest smell down there!!!YUK!!! I will never do that again!

Ladies, we have all got to stop sticking things in our vagina that aren't supposed to be in there. I know we're all desperate for relief, but you should not put random products in your vagina hoping for miracles.

Probiotics like Fem-dophilus are enteric-coated, or whatever else - so the capsules don't break down in your stomach acid. If your stomach acid can't dissolve it, it certainly won't dissolve easily in your vagina. Fem-dophilus is designed so that the good bacteria end up in your vagina if you take it orally. So use it regularly and hope for results. And stop shoving things into your va-jay-jay's!

QUOTE(arj75 @ Jun 12 2007, 06:11 AM) *
I'm thinking, that some of us here with the more serious causes, have progressed from a simple case of bacterial vaginosis into hormonal vaginitis.

That's called atrophic vaginitis. There will be other signs of estrogen-loss in your body besides vaginitis, so a doctor needs to diagnose that and prescribe the right treatment.

QUOTE(arj75 @ Jun 12 2007, 06:11 AM) *
We need to start snooping around a bit more into the issues of why Asian women are at lower risk for bv, maybe it has nothing to do with their diets. As we have alredy discovered soy plants mock estrogen. What are the effects on the body with too high estrogen and too low estrogen.

Speaking as an Asian woman, I think there are a lot of factors involved. These observations are based purely on my experiences with living in Japan and Korea (China is a different animal).

One reason - douching. Commercial douches are not widely available in Asia, and women just don't use them on a regular basis. In America, you can walk into any grocery store and buy a douche right next to the tampons and pads. Since we know that regular douching = higher rates of BV, this is definitely one factor to consider.

I also don't think they have OTC yeast creams available, either. Actually, I think it's available but you have to go to the pharmacy and ask for it, rather than buying them from any random grocery store like with pads and tampons. This might play a factor - that women go to their doctors at the first sign of trouble, rather than self-treating. Also, in Japan and Korea, they have universal healthcare, unlike in America, so a basic GYN visit is available to all women.

Another - hygiene. In Japan and Korea, it's regular practice for both parties to shower before sex. Watch a Japanese or Korean soap opera, or even Anime, and couples never jump into bed right away, they always take turns showering first. (It's pretty funny.)

Yet another factor is that very few Asian women take BC pills regularly. I think in Japan, the figure is like less than 5% of women. One of the reasons is that BC pills haven't been available until fairly recently. But another one of the reasons women don't use the pill as much is because most women just prefer condoms, because they want to protect themselves from STD's. And since we know that semen sometimes triggers BV, the fact that more women use condoms instead of BC pills might be a reason.

Yet another factor is probiotics. In both Asia and Europe, there is a huge awareness of probiotics, and products like Yakult are consumed daily for health benefits from childhood - people think of it like vitamins. I don't know if Yakult helps with BV, but I still think there is more knowledge of probiotics in Asia and Europe than in the U.S. (Americans eat a lot of yogurt, but it's only recently that yogurts like Activia and Dan-Active have been sold widely that promote specific health benefits.)

QUOTE(arj75 @ Jun 12 2007, 06:11 AM) *
I think that some women here, may be lucky enough to manage their bv by being a tad bit more careful..try washing yourself with antibacterial soap, and your partner too.

Soap is very alkaline and can mess up the pH balance. Anti-bacterial soap can kill the good bacteria. Doctors routinely suggest washing the vagina with plain water or a pH balanced cleanser. (Dove is pH balanced and non-alkali.)


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