[Vendetta]

OH fuck it! Men are such sad creatures GOD DAMMIT! How could I let myself go on his conversation or let myself go on beauty patterns that this sick society imposes to us? I've always been beautiful without them, there are plenty of guys who would love to spend their time with me and I am still agonizing about an ARGH guy's preference?? Fuck it I thought I was smarter than that!! I don't give a damn from now on, he wants boobs he can implant them on himself and I hope he marries a total flat-chested woman. I am going to celebrate my good features. Maybe someday I can wear a push-up bra or a cleavage and feel that power, maybe. If I eventually go on for surgery I'm sure he won't be by my side because I don't want to.
I know he loves me for who I am and regrets all those insensitive comments. I have to get over it. Even if, at the end of the day, I lose my interest on him, I am sure I'm going to leave him loving myself again. He's shorter than me damn it lol I prefer tall guys, never thought I would end up with a shorty. And I confess that bothers me! I can't even wear high heels, which I love! lol Ridiculous little man

Cheers girls

[starship]

sorry for my choice of words knorl. I wasnt speaking generally about small breasts but that is the way i feel about mine right now. I dont like my boobs and i wish they were bigger. It aint gonna happen so Id rather work on accepting that theyre only a small part of me (in more ways than one) and most people have things about them theyd like to change if they could
Id love to have small Bs Nelly

[newo_ikkin]

same here nelly. actually it depends on the brand, but I'm usually an A.
I love the shape of mine because they're almost perfectly rounded. Lefty's a tad bigger but its not very noticeable. One of my favorite bras is an underwire and the cup is basically a layer of cloth. It drives my boy nuts when I wear it!
Small breasts rock. So do nipples. lol yay boobs!

[neurotic.nelly]

i have large A's, small B's, but let me tell ya'll........................flat chest or small breasts are oohhhh sooo sexy! And beautiful.... that is all

[knorl05]

sorry lovey, but small breasts are not an imperfection. that is all.

[starship]

My post got eaten. grr...
In short I said that some alone time sounds like a good idea Vendetta. My boyfriend and I recently had a 2 week break (non-breast related) and hopefully it will now be easier to sort our problems out properly. I think if you worked on making yourself stronger as an individual then youd be better equiped for any thoughtless comment he might throw your way. It's easy to take things out on those closest to us when we feel helpless but it isnt healthy for you or your relationship.

Everyone has imperfections. Mine just happens to be in a body part that society has sexualised. If i feel my boyfriend is focusing too much on this and not my good parts then i just list his flaws in my head; suddenly i don't feel so bad. It's normal to be abnormal damnit
I just read that whilst Keira knightly apparently appears topless in a new movie called 'Silk' she decided to get a butt double for another film 'Domino'. Im not totally sure as I havent seen either film but i found it amusing that the feature she gets criticised over isnt the one that she's actually insecure about. I so want it to be true

[Vendetta]

Hei star, yes he knows about everything, last September I had to ask him to stop doing that because I was losing my mind. He stopped. The damage was done. And our arguings now always end up on that subject. I guess I hate him more than I love him. I've broke up with him twice, once because I've found out about those messages he sent to some girls in website Hi5 and the second time because he read my diary. And here I am, feeling like complete shit, again around him. I know he loves me to death and he says he's sorry but I dont believe his sorrys and I can't get over the fact that he loves me BUT. I don't want any "buts" in my love/sex life, I want to have it all, like I had before. We kinda live together, I've got my own place but I'm at his place all the time, we share everything, every fucking day, and I can't believe I am almost throwing away a relationship like this because I can't forgive and forget and get over it. I am going to spend some time alone as soon as I get my next paycheck, I really need that. I treat him like shit, I despise him, he feels I don't love him anymore. It's a nightmare around this house. I hate him so much for doing this to me and I hate myself more for letting that happen! ARGH!

[knorl05]

v: this sounds like it's become a very unhealthy obsession for you. it seems like you've become very neurotic about breast size. i've found thinking about something too much without resolve leads to us getting stuck on what we feel is a problem. you're going to have to let this go. dj biz gave great advice about focusing on the parts of your body that you like, but also redirect your attention toward aspects of your character that you like as well. i know when i'm feeling all down about my appearance, i will shift my focus toward something more worthwhile about myself, like my interests. i find that by gaining a deeper perspective about life in general, helps me to see how ridiculous my concerns happen to be. the only reason (i believe) we obsess about these things is due to the culture in which we're raised. you dont see tribes in 3rd world countries shoving bags under their pecs, but you do see some of these women elongating their necks to be considered more attractive. what i'm saying here is that it's not your "fault" for feeling inferior or inadequate due to the size of your breasts... that's what we are dealing with in this day and age when modifying our bodies is entirely acceptable and accessible. you've just got to try to not let this control your life so much. when you catch yourself obsessing about it, or getting angry about it, redirect your attention. try to forgive yourself for getting upset about it but also forgive your man for being a breast man. we choose the people we want to be with, and if you think you could be in a healthier relationship by all means seek one out. you really need to try to get back to a healthier you, which is entirely possible, you just have to allow yourself to move past this concern.

(((dj biz)))
(((starship)))

[dj-bizmonkey]

props to knorl, any mention of johnny depp is welcome in my book. mmmmmmm. anyway you are totally right when you say that people feel the need to tear down celebrities/attractive people (starship, you touched on this too). we love to love and love to hate those images. they captivate and disgust us simultaneously. i think kiera knightley is a fox, but we feel the need to take her apart, find her faults, tear her down, make ourselves feel better. it's that same middle school bullshit that makes you spread rumors about your best friend being a slut because she's prettier than you. blegh. it is such a reproachful behavior and it is so pervasive, even into adulthood.

also, knorl, you brought up the pressure from different industries. i think that is completely accurate. bartending, being an actress, entertainer, whatever, there is much more pressure to have bigger breasts and small breasted women in that vein have to work that much harder. not that her breasts are ultra-small, but i feel like Alicia Keys is keeping in real with her body in general. she looks like a healthy woman, not obese and not eating-disorder induced skinny.

starship, no apologies necessary, like i said, that's the genes you got. i ain't mad at ya, or any other naturally thin ladies out there. i am very jealous though. at night i dream of my teen years when i could eat cheeseburgers and milkshakes and it didn't have any visible effects. sigh. now i'm staring at a pile of almonds and grapes, trying to convince myself its the same as cheetos and snickers.

((Vendetta)) First, I thought you broke up with that guy! I totally understand if you are still feeling residual pain and inadequacy. I still deal with the shitty comments the last breast-man i dated made to me. ick. i had a friend in high school who said to me, 'dj, i'm glad you don't have boobs, because if you did you'd be too hot.' what the fuck kind of thing is that to say? similar to what your boyfriend said to you V. i mean, i know she may have been trying to give me a compliment, but sheesh.

i don't think you're being a bitch, Vendetta, but i do think you are channeling all your self-loathing and insecurities into anger towards him. he can't help what he's attracted to, he certainly didn't need to advertise it to you and your brother that you were somehow, less than, but in the end, no one can control who they fall in love with and what they may or may not find sexy. you are obviously a confident, intelligent young lady. you'd probably be shocked to find out how many people in your life envy you for whatever reason. focus on the parts of your body that you like and work it.

[starship]

I can understand Vendetta. My boyfriend hasnt even said anything as direct as yours and i still feel angry towards him sometimes. In a conversation with some other people once someone asked if guys prefered girls with big boobs and he replied 'thats like asking if girls prefer big dicks'. He said after that he isn't bothered about breasts etc etc but even so I dwelt so much on that one tiny comment. Also when my boobs were a bit bigger (they change during the month slightly) and i was wearing a pushup bra he was really complimentary and couldnt take his eyes off them. I was probably being paranoid but instead of feeling great i felt terrible and like my normal breasts werent sexy or enough for him. I just feel overly sensitive when he mentions anything to do with breasts or even says a girl is attractive who happens to have big boobs. I usually end up overthinking what he says and then find myself becoming angry and resentful towards him because in my mind Im not as attractive to him as other women and just feel inadequate. The things your boyfriend has said are far worse and seem more frequent so personally Im not suprised how you feel. Does he know about how you feel and that you find his comments really insensitive? If he does then ims orry but hes a bit of a jerk because no decent guy would make his girlfriend hate herself. Even though Im attractive in other ways it still upsets and frustrates me that theres something other women have that I cant give him and that in that respect practically every woman he sees will be 'better' than me. If you love someone its natural to want to be the sexiest woman in the world to that person. Your guy doesnt even seem to be trying to make you feel that way so you should just let him know what he's doing to you.

I think a lot of women like to find others who are inferior to them in some way to conceal their own insecurities. Like 'sure Im overweight but at least I have boobs unlike these women'. Its why celebrities who are different will always get criticism from someone. Most women would thank their lucky stars if they woke up looking like keira knightly yet they feel the need to find some flaw to elivate their own self worth. If she had a C-cup then people would scrutinise her nose or her legs or even her feet. Its why many magazines dedicate page upon page to pictures of celebs having bad hair days/a pimple/cellulite etc. It happens in real life too. You see women looking each other up and down as if scanning for some way in which they are superior. I hate to admit but Ive probably done it myself before. Like with people my boyfriend has liked in the past Id compare every part until Id convinced myself I was better somehow. It seems ridiculous now but I like to think Ive matured since then:/

[Vendetta]

I guess you've been my best friends lately lol I can't talk to noone about my issue and I'm turning my boyfriend's life into a living hell. Literally. And in the end I can't even rant with him cause he's already pissed off enough...
Sooo... I'm 24 years old. I'm attractive, smart and yada yada... I've always been pretty happy with myself. Sometimes I would even LOVE myself. Even with my normal dislikes and insecurities, those that everyone has, I thought I had it all. I had the face, the hair, the body. My self-confidence on bed was awesome. I've always been awesome to the eyes of everyone. I'm sorry for my lack of modesty here, but hei girls, we know that if we love ourselves and celebrate ourselves enough, everyone will notice. I've never been in love with my lack of breast but hei.. padded bras, gel inserts and all of that crap were just a part of my wardrobe. And I would even sleep bare naked with my ex-boyfriend, no problem about it. His sexuality was all about me. We dated for 3 years. I would even go to strip clubs as sometimes we usually did and feel great about myself. My God, I had never thought, not only for a minute, that he wished my chest was bigger. Hei, I had never even thought that I didn't had it all. And so I meet this guy...
I don't know where it all started. Because I appreciate women too, he felt confortable to comment them. As I did with my ex-boyfriend. But with this guy, that was my "death sentence". We was mad about big breasts. He once told my brother, hei dude, I'm MAD about breasts, but your sister is just something... We would be watching a porn video and he would say hei that is my kind of breasts, big and a bit saggy. He would say Shakira is fine but has no breasts. And would be crazy about Beyonce's boob bouncing on that video. We even talked about implants. He even said that if I'm pretty like this, it would be a nightmare if I had breasts. When my boobs grew due to a change of BC pill, he loved it. I was talking about it once and he said, laughing, hei baby take 5 boxes of that! I loved the attention he was paying to them. "Hei you have side boob now". And he would be crazy about my "cleavage" and would touch them a lot and.. all of that. I had never felt sexier.
I know, because I searched for, that the first time we went to bed he felt a bit confused about my lack of breasts. And I know he had never been with a small breasted girl before because it didn't attracted him. And I felt, really bad, the difference when my boobs shrunk to their normal size. He wouldn't pay that much attention.
Then I started hating myself. I try to look in the mirror to force myself to like my reflection but it's worse. I can't have him touching or even looking at me sometimes. And then I hate myself for doing this to myself. And I hate the fact that it has became so important and I can't understand why. I keep looking at pictures and magazines and women on the street, all the time, everyday. I keep fantasising about a weight on my chest. I'm obsessed. And totally ashame of being this obsessed about something I find so shallow. Why am I letting this ruin my life and relationship? And when I feel totally depressed I turn it against him. I keep thinking and agonizing about the things he've said and done and blame him and hate him so much. And I go home and despise him. And pick up fights. And I blame him again and again and of course he can't do nothing about it. And I despise myself for knowing I am willing to do something that's totally against my values and I can't understand why is that so important to me, why do I need it so much.
So can someone understand why do I hate him this much? Can anybody put yourself in my position and tell me I would feel the same thing as you do or, you're being a bitch, stop it? Is it really his fault or not that much? How can I forgive and forget the things he've said? We're going to lose each other, really soon.

[knorl05]

i vow to not reply on this board at 330a after 8 hours of punching numbers. seriously dulls my thought processes.

alllso.. just my personal experience. when i was bartending i felt much more pressure to have larger breasts than i do when i work a regular job. i know certain industries and fields of work seem to expect more from personal appearance than do others. i also felt more pressure in my early twenties than i do in my late twenties to look a certain way. i dont know if it's maturity, or if it's that i've just given in to the ways of the (western) world. i have opted out of the superficialmaterialistic gauntlet, but i have yet to let go of my water bras.

oh ps dj biz, also: "but there are alot of obese, unhealthy women out there that are being told to 'celebrate and embrace' their curves, when what they are really celebrating and embracing is heat disease, diabetes, hypertension, you name it. i think us women, as a whole, must stand up not only to an unattainable (by healthy, natural means) ideal and also the affirmation and celebration of complacency to our wellbeing, i.e. saying its fine to be obese because 'real women have curves.'" i completely agree.

[edie52]

I want to say mine are Fiats... cuz Fiats are cool...

I didn't know that Beth Ditto had posed nude- but I'm not surprised. When I saw them play she stripped down to her t-shirt and panties, and was brimming with confidence and sexiness. I also thought she was prettier in real life, much softer looking (maybe it was the southern accent?).

Damn, I want that green dress!

[knorl05]

(((anonymoose96)))

dj biz: your rambling is amazing.. you always bring up so many great points! and this here "but being jealous and being hateful cannot amount to any positive or constructive outcome." i've seriously determined (and this may be common knowledge to some) that the bulk of our reaction to the world depends on our values. i used to really struggle with the realization that there are a lot of petty people in the world. i can only understand it through my own shamefully petty moments/tendencies. i believe people cut into eachother for a few reasons.. for validation or power, out of fear or the need to be included. i'm sure there are variations to these, and i'm sure my understanding of this particular human behavior isnt all-inclusive... i just think this is the only rational explanation i can come up with as to why many people are less concerned with constructive outcomes than we are our own immediate personal gains. i dont think we always have the foresight or vision to see things differently. it may not be 'right' how the media targets consumers and how consumers blindly consume it, but that seems to be what we're dealing with... we are all objectified and used in the main circuit and as much as we try to separate ourselves from it, it still seems to affect us.

edie52: i think people will always criticize and critique attractive people in the public eye. it just seems to go along with the territory. i dont think people really think keira knightly looks like a boy, i just feel that people want to have an opinion about something. they want to try to convince others (and themselves) that an attractive person really isnt that special, that great, they want to make them seem more real, less idolized and revered over their appearance. i know i feel pretty good about myself when i see the unretouched photos of celebs floating around the internet. i like real people, i think most people do too. just a for instance, johnny depp. ooo. right? so many people, men and women alike, love him. and i think it's because he's not afraid to be real. helps he's a man, and a beautiful man at that, but just imagine if his persona were that of a pompous snob.. i dont think as many people would take so strongly to him. uuh. derail, sorry. what thread is this?? ha.

ooh work has my head in a spin. so boobies. small ones. they rock.

[newo_ikkin]

I've got Vespas!!

(I think Vespas are awesome)

Regarding Keira Knightely: I saw Atonement this weekend and she looks amazing in that green dress.

[karategrrl]

my boobs are not corvettes, nor are they cadillacs. they are more like a pair of those little smart cars.

LOL! Great! Mine must be Mini Coopers!

[starship]

Oh and I don't know where you guys stand on the whole to pad or not to pad fiasco but if youre looking for a cleavage I'd seriously recommend 'Panache Atlantis' bras. I wouldnt wear everyday but they start from an AA-cup and can create amazing boobs from more or less nothing

[konphusion26]

I just checked out the Kiera Knightley cover... she looks friggin hot! I also saw the one with Beth Ditto, she looks pretty hot too! I think her boldness is sexy. I wish I had the "balls" to do something like that. I am petite, with a small B cup but got a bit o' belly so they look smaller LOL I know that as soon as I lose weight the "girls" are going south like they always do.

[starship]

Keira Knightely is fantastic for the simple fact that she hasn't had a boob job like the majority of other celebrities. Half of whom didnt even need one in the first place which just shows how insecure they must be.Im starting to think that A-cups arent perhaps as rare as Id thought. Looking at the suicideGirls website that Vendetta recommended I was actually quite suprised at how many woman had small breasts there. Not exactly the majority but still more than Id expected. Its hard to tell in everyday life anyway as small boobs can be easily disguised with padded bras or flattering clothing.
I've heard countless songs with similar messages to the crappy Mika one you metioned Edie. (sorry DjBiz) but Im one of those girls who does eat anything without putting on a pound. I dont think of myself as proportional at all though. It seems women really are never happy though because Id love to put on weight. In fact Ive actually gone out of my way to try but theres only so much you can do without putting your health at risk. I find society is becoming increasingly offensive towards women like me which is frustrating as (i feel) I have even less control over my body shape than an overweight problem. The backlash against size zero models has segregated yet another class of women because of their bodies. People need to stop dictating what women should look like (curvy, thin, obese, pear shaped, average etc etc) and just accept that everyone is different and there is no ideal. I can look at any other women's body and list at least 3 attractive things yet when I look at my own all i can see are the things that arent as theyre supposedly supposed to be. that surely isn't right...
and edie what do you mean 'IF beth ditto posed in nothing...' Nakee Beth
Whats more interesting is that the general vibe i got from the feedback of this picture was a millions times more positive than what keira will probably get. She was applauded by most people for being proud of her body and 'breaking thing mould'. It's a shame that this kind of outlook only applies to a select few

[edie52]

I like it when y'all ramble...

So, has everyone seen the latest issue of Interview, with Keira Knightley on the cover? She's wearing suspenders, and not much else. I was psyched when I saw it, because her body really looks like mine (she's probably thinner, but proportionally). The inside photos are less revealing, but gorgeous, IMO- she looks like an 1940s Hollywood star. I leafed through it in the store, and later looked it up online to have another look. Of course, what I found was the cover pic with a bunch of peoples' (men and women) comments criticizing her body (and a few defending her). In addition to generally criticizing her breast size, a bunch of folks said she looked anorexic. Then someone pointed out that her thighs were actually quite fleshy in one of the shots. I think if she were the same size but with bigger breasts (even implants), people wouldn't be saying that. She'd look like almost every other Hollywood star. She doesn't look emaciated like Nicole Ritchie did. I mean, she's thin, but it's mostly her breast size that prompts people's "she looks like a boy" comments.

I don't think I've ever even seen anything she's been in, but I definitely feel a kinship with her! She's on our side (when I say "side" I don't want to mean us against other women, but against the media- though unfortunately other women can be just as critical, as we all know). She's spoken candidly about not loving the size of her breasts, but it also seems like she's accepted them. She's brave enough to put 'em out there and she's resisted getting implants.

Has anyone else heard that f*#king annoying song "Big Girls, You are Beautiful?" I mean, the title message is fine, but I hate the line that goes something like "don't want no skinny girl... want a reeeaal woman, with curves in all the right places." But speaking of that, I don't think the whole "real women have curves" marketing ploy actually makes things easier for heavy women. If Beth Ditto (who I think is awesome) posed on a (mainstream) magazine cover in nothing but suspenders, sure, some would celebrate it, but there'd still be snarky comments all over the web, people would still be thinking "I can't believe she's showing off a body that looks like that." I don't think the media is celebrating obesity or even diversity... just pretending to when it's convenient for them.