[themeiu]

Not to further derail from the importance of this thread...

Agreed, and I am really glad this thread is here.

But, man, Lynda! Why do you want to come into someone's home and stomp all over their lives like this? Do you think this is making you a better person with your anger and judgements? I think it is only making you an unhappy person.
And honestly, I don't believe in your bible, pope, church, or god, so why would I want to argue with them? That would be pointless. Please stop harassing these kind and intellengent women and take you hate elsewhere. I don't think your god supports hate, i seem to recall he all about Love....

( truly sorry if I have offended anyone else here. Please continue with the true purpose of the thread. It is a beautiful place)

[faerietails2]

Back to the regularly scheduled discussion (my sincere apologies for my earlier troll-baiting in such an important thread)...

I forgot to post about this earlier, but have you all seen the I Am Emily X blog? It's all about Planned Parenthood workers' experiences, and I just have so much respect for them and the support they offer women. They created the blog in response to the anti-choicers' "40 Days for Life" protests, and they've raised almost $40k (people pledge a certain amount for every protester standing outside PPs during the 40-period). It's great.

[culturehandy]

Not to further derail from the importance of this thread...

[faerietails2]

I think the real sin here is your stupidity (and awful grammar).

[faerietails2]

No one is bashing your alleged "christianity." They're bashing you. And rightfully so.

[girlygirlgag]

Hi crazy troll, *looking* to dirty the boards with your neurosis and desperate need for attention?

Nobody is interested, back to your bridge.

[pollystyrene]

Reported. Wack job.

[i_am_jan]

anarch: Thanks for taking the time to share that, such clarifying words.

I think it's admirable that you want a good, stable foundation in place before you bring a human being into your world. Timing is everything when it comes to important stuff like family. I remember at the time of my pregnancy knowing that a child would destroy me, it simply could not be for me at the time. It sounds like you've really got your hands full with your relationship right now and I hope it continues to get better. It sounds as though you both *want* it to, a recipe for success hopefully. I also love how you dealt with the spiritual aspect, that was very positive to me. It's wonderful that there is a spiritual aspect women can connect with in this situation, it's amazing that down through the ages women have been able to find that. I'll have to visit that thread you linked.

bunnyfluf: I agree that details/information are a fine thing. In regard to the PP staff, I know what you mean by feeling so grateful to them. I still do as well, they were wonderful, really nice and respectful to me. When no one else was at the time either. I'm not sure if they can accept packages or not...you could always hand deliver it if you felt compelled to. Or just a card expressing your appreciation, I'm sure it would go a long way with the underappreciated staff there at the clinic.

LOVE OUT

((((to all the sharers, faithful listeners and supporters, you are lovedl))))

[anarch]

Yeah, please do post about it if you're ok with it. I always learn a lot from reading other people's personal accounts.

[shinyx3]

i totally agree treehugger

[treehugger]

bunny, I can't speak for everybody, but I personally think a detailed account would be great for women considering going through this process for themselves. I had a tubal ligation a year and a half ago, and I posted every little miniscule detail in the childfree by choice thread. Information is never a bad thing.

[shinyx3]

bunnyfluf, so glad to hear you are doing so well!

[bunnyfluf]

i'm in hte process now... took the second med this evening. it hasn't been near as painful as i feared, probably mostly due to the percocet. and decided to make chocolate chip cookies to keep my mind occupied and to have something yummy.

would a more detailed account of the process be helpful to people who may be scared, or would it be too graphic? not knowing what to expect was what i was most afraid of.

i can't praise the people at planned parenthood enough. i'm going to donate as much as i can. i wonder if they could accept a box of cookies as thanks, or if they are unable to accept packages?

[amazonprincess]

It felt really good to tell my story and thanks for the response. This is a healing thread.

[anarch]

Hey, there's a "Farewell Blessing for an Unbirthed Spirit" in the Our Truths zine linked in one of the Exhale pages (it's in the .pdf). It says among other things: "Farewell, Spirit who took life in me. I release you with Love and Respect. Now is not the time for you to come to birth through me." Also an interview with a pro-choice Catholic, women's letters to their fetuses...good stuff. Thanks for posting it, kittenb.

I had mine in March. I've never had a craving to have a kid, and I enjoy my life as is. But my husband and I figured we'd make good parents someday, if we decided that choice was right for us, and we're financially stable. So I always thought that if it happened, we'd probably be happy to be pregnant.

But when it happened, I thought: no, no, NOW is not the time. I gave my husband and my doctor a bunch of reasons why not (my husband agreed wholeheartedly), but I didn't tell them the most important reason:

He has had serious anger management issues since the beginning of our relationship, 4 years ago. Nothing physical, but lots of yelling, blaming, and stomping around self-righteously. Then later, he'd realize what an ass he'd been and feel so guilty that he'd announce that he'll move out since he's obviously not a fit husband for me and we should probably get divorced too. He really meant it, in the moment. He'd also talk about how attractive suicide would be “because I'm obviously worthless” (he stopped doing that last year though, having improved to the point that when I pointed out how UPSETTING this was to hear, he admitted he was talking about it more as melodramatic theoretical speculation than an actual plan). And I'd have to persuade him, every freakin' time, that we've got a good thing here, don't give up, fate meant us to be together, please don't talk like that, of course you're a worthy person, etc etc.

I know it sounds like I should run run run away, but he agreed to therapy 2 months into the relationship and has made steady progress since. He has never plateau'd. He's light years better than in the beginning - his progress has been slow because he has brain damage from a bad car accident, so we have to have every argument at least 3x before he'll remember we've ever even talked about a topic before. But he's grown more, and faster, than many guys I've dated whose skulls were intact.

Only since Jan of this year have I started to feel like I'm not going to get ambushed by one of his temper tantrums. And I know damn well that a kid makes existing problems worse because there's more sleep deprivation, and more decisions to argue about. So the prospect of being thrown right back into conditions that would escalate his temper tantrums, when I'd spent the past 3.5 years helping him go from one temper tantrum every 3 days (when I first moved in), to once a week, to once every 2 weeks (after 1 year), to once every 3 weeks to a month (2nd & 3rd year) etc...until finally in January he was down to once every 3 months and I said to myself, "Once every 3 months, I can handle that,"...

(good thing too because having the same arguments over and over again every month was starting to persuade me this marriage really was a mistake and maybe it was time to stop trying to talk him out of his pessimism)

well when I found out I was pregnant I thought, Christ, the last couple of months is the first time since we married that I've started to feel that I can stop walking on eggshells thinking Hey he's about due to blow his stack again, I wonder which comment or opinion of mine will set it off? If we have a kid now, he's going to start being irrational every fucking WEEK again, and the prospect of going through all that AGAIN, but with the stresses of a kid in the bargain, is going to drive me straight into the loony bin. Or divorce. One or or the other – or to be realistic, both - but sure as hell we wouldn't be able to be the stable mother, or father, that every baby deserves.

So we went to Planned Parenthood. We drove by the clinic to eyeball the protestors and figure out which individuals were the clinic escorts. Parked 3 blocks away. Walked back, pretending we were out for a stroll (this clinic is on a busy street in the middle of Student Central, with lots of shops on either side). When we were right in front of the clinic doors I turned HARD left and I said, “Hi” to an escort who ushered us in, but not before a protestor cried, “Why are you killing your child?”

The abortion itself (vacuum) was fine, even without general anaesthesia (I hate being drugged up). I've had period cramps that were worse. Thank God for the PP doctors and staff. I sometimes wonder what might have been, but I don't regret. My husband started to say last year that he was too fucked up to be a father, so he definitely didn't want us to have kids, but facing the fact of our pregnancy made him think “Hey, sure I'm fucked up, but I'm working on it and making good progress and that's the most important thing for a kid, to see that parents are able to resolve problems,” and he got swept away by the idea. Which is fine with me as long as he keeps making progress, which he will, and maybe next year or the year after, he'll be stable enough and we'll be ready for a kid, if a little soul decides to choose us as parents. (During my abortion, I sent vibes of apologies & love at the foetus, explaining that now was a horrible time and inviting it to come back when we were ready for it, so who knows, maybe it'll come back.)

But we had another argument the month after the abortion, about – just as I thought - how to raise a (hypothetical, for crying out loud) kid, which went through the usual godawful, gut-wrenching song and dance and made me thank God I'd made the right decision.

I'm incredibly lucky. I'm in MA, which has a relatively civilized position on abortion. My family is solidly pro-choice, same with most of my friends, so I got their opinions before the abortion, and talked about it with them after. But yeah, I feel the taboo – who among my husband's friends are pro-choice, and who would disapprove? He's never talked about abortion with them. None of them know. We're keeping it a secret from our parents, who crave grandkids and would be devastated if they knew.

Thanks I_am_jan for starting this thread, and everybody who's posted your stories and support. As you've all said: We've got nothing to be ashamed of.

[i_am_jan]

bunnyfluf: Reading through your last post...you're going to be fine. It's good you're letting those feelings run through you and taking some time to think. Life is to be all about getting back up after we fall, which everyone does, frequently. You're here now, so something must be right.

kittenb: I wasn't aware of that Planned Parenthood-endorsed center...it's great it's posted here now.

PEACE

and

(((((everyone)))))

[kittenb]

I just wanted to share this really great resource that I don't think a lot of people know about. It is a crisis line/website 1-866-4EXHALE. It is a post-abortion counseling and talk line. I know that Planned Parenthood endorses them and they are pro-choice and very non-judgemental.
Please pass this number around to anyone that you think could use it.

{{{hugs and support to all}}}

[bunnyfluf]

thank you guys so much for your support... it means a lot.

i had my gyn appt this morning for the colposcopy. the doc did find one lesion and was about to biopsy it when i broke down crying. she and the nurse were supremely sympathetic tho, and stopped the procedure. the doctor continued talking to me and reassuring me that everything would be okay, that in her opinion the RU486 method is safer, and tried to convince me to talk to someone, tell a friend. i have one friend who has had an abortion, but she lives in new york and i just can't bring myself to tell her on the phone. fortunately, i just found out she'll be up here for a wedding this weekend, so hopefully we'll get a chance to talk.

as for my decision to go with the RU486 versus DNE, i wanted to be present in the process, rather than anesthetized, and to be able to go through the hard part at home, rather than a clinic, so i can cry my eyes out if i want and hug my bunnies and watch firefly and meditate and apologize to my body for putting it through this. like data said, this has given me a new strength in a way, in that i won't be having sex with anyone that i wouldn't want to start a family with. so i guess i should get myself some toys... i'm still undecided whether i want to tell the father. he was very comforting to me before, but now he wants more of a relationship and i really don't. it also seemed like once he knew he could get me into bed, he was a lot less caring and attentive. that's why i feel stupid, that i fell for it. i needed the comfort and kindness he was offering, and let him lead it further. i realized it a few weeks ago, when i was distraught one night and he just said 'well i can't help you with that,' and ignored me. so i went home in tears, relapsed in my cutting, and then vowed not to sleep with him ever again, maybe not even talk to him anymore. then the next week i found out i was pregnant. talk about horrible timing.

i'm not ashamed of the abortion itself, i'm just ashamed that i put myself in a position where i need one.

thank you pepper, shiny, datagirl and anarch. your hugs and kind words help reinforce my rational thoughts that everything will be okay.

[datagirl]

Hi all,
Just thought I'd squeeze in and let everyone in here know that it was actually 2 months ago that I had my termination.The father never paid for any of the procedure and I just got sick of asking him and hearing his excuses.I also just never wanted to have any contact with him.It just wasn't worth it.

My physical personal experience here in Australia of surgical termination was a positive one.There was no pain afterwards (except a tiny bit of abdomnial pain like a period was coming on) and minimal bleeding.I was a bit nauseous because of the anisthetic afterwards.I had a concious sedation type of anisthetic and was asleep and completely unaware of the whole procedure which took about five minutes aparently.
There was only a few drops of blood afterwards as well.The care I recieved was fantastic.I trusted the doctors and nurses.It made it easier that I went to an actual clinic that specialised in termination.My period was on time the next month and all is well.My personal opinion about RU486 now that I've had a surgical termination is that I would never go down that route.I don't want to see what's inside me.I don't want to know.

Bunnyfluff please read all you can about RU486.Aparently it IS safe.But just get all the info you can.Afterall it's only you who knows your body. And having to make the decision to terminate is never an easy one.The whole experience of pregnancy and termination has made me a stronger person. I am however now petrified of becoming pregnant if I'm not in a stable relationship.I now have very strong opinions (for myself) about never being a single parent as it's just too hard.Single parents are amazing though.I know that I made the absolute right choice for me.I had my friends and parents support so I was never alone and I never felt judged.The people who do know that I've had a termination tell me of all the women they know and their sisters,mothers,girlfriends,aunties,nieces.You name it and there will be a woman who has either had a termination or known a woman who has had one.
It's the most common procedure performed in the world.Definately nothing to be ashamed of.A fact of life? I believe so.It has nothing to do with good or bad.It just is.

((((Bunnyfluf))))

[shinyx3]

(((bunnyfluff))) keep your chin up. women are strong. you are strong. you will get through this. do you have anybody close to you that you can tell and that you can take with you. that ca take care of you for the rest of the day afterwards?


feel free to vent here all you want and someone will respond. there are so many of us that have been through this and we are good listeners (readers).