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> Bacterial Vaginosis--or--embarrassing bad smell
i_hate_sports
post Oct 28 2006, 09:54 AM
Post #4681


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Posts: 8


neverending:

I've been on several different birth control pills, then nuvaring continuously for the past 10 years (age 16-25)

I went off last week and do not plan on going back on after reading about low levels of estrogen being a possible cause.
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neverending
post Oct 28 2006, 09:14 AM
Post #4682


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autumnbreeze:I'm not sure how they did this.I guess they did one at a time.Sorry I can't be more help to you.

Ladies:
HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE TAKEN BIRTH CONTROL?
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autumnbreeze
post Oct 28 2006, 08:29 AM
Post #4683


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QUOTE(neverending @ Oct 27 2006, 11:19 PM) *

THANKS PIANOGIRL! I will check it out.

LADIES MAYBE THIS MIGHT WORK FOR SOME OF YOU.

Bacterial vaginosis (BV) is a polymicrobial infection of the vagina and should not be considered an exclusively sexually transmitted disease. We describe the case of a 17-year-old female virgin adolescent with recurrent malodorous vaginal discharge for 6 months. Before referral to us she had been treated unsuccessfully with conservative treatment options. Our investigation revealed Gardnerella vaginalis as the responsible factor for the vaginal infection. Because metronidazole treatment had failed as monotherapy, a new method was applied. Repeated vaginal washings with 3% H2O2, 15% NaCl and 10% providone iodine were initiated. At the end of each washing, vaginal walls were thoroughly cleaned up with a small gauze. After 10 days of treatment the odor and the vaginal discharge had ceased and 12 months later no relapse had occurred. It seems to be reasonnable to use this kind of treatment in recurrent BV.



neverending: Thanks. This is my first time hearing about the NaCl. Do you know if the H2O2, NaCl, and providone iodine were all mixed together and applied or given separately?



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latinrican
post Oct 28 2006, 08:10 AM
Post #4684


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Here's some more info about the hydrogen peroxide that you all may want to read.

http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/vagInfections.html
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neverending
post Oct 27 2006, 10:13 PM
Post #4685


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JUST POSTING FOR MY OWN RECORDS BECAUSE I'M GOING TO PRINT ALL OF THIS AND TAKE IT WITH ME TO MY NEXT DOCTORS APPOINTMENT.

Estrogen supports the growth of Lactobacillus, which helps maintain an acidic vaginal flora. This in turn creates an unsuitable environment for bacterial growth. Other examples of host defense mechanisms can be found in TABLE 3.4

The vaginal epithelium, which is highly estrogen dependent, becomes flattened and loses glycogen which leads to a decrease in lactobacillus, lactic acid, and a rise in vaginal pH. These alterations affect the vaginal microbial population and put aging women at a greater risk for developing bacterial infections.

With the loss of estrogen, the vaginal pH changes from a normally acidic low to a higher, more alkaline pH. This less acidic environment discourages the growth of important protective organisms, lactobacillus which acts as a bacterial guard against abnormal bacteria and yeasts. In the absence of lactobacillus, these "bad guys" overgrow and can cause discharge, irritation, and give rise to increased urinary tract infections.

The loss of estrogen also produces a change in the vaginal pH from a normally acidic low to a higher, more alkaline pH. This less acidic environment discourages the growth of important protective organisms such as lactobacillus, which act as a bacterial guard against abnormal bacteria and yeasts. In the absence of lactobacillus, bacterial vaginal infections may occur more frequently, causing discharge and irritation, and contributing to increased urinary tract infections.(THIS IS PROBABLY WHY WE CAN TAKE ALL THE acidophilus WE WANT BUT ARE STILL UNABLE TO BALANCE THE VAGINAL PH BECAUSE THEY(lactobacillus) DON'T EVEN GET A CHANCE TO GROW.LOOK AT THE 2ND SENTENCE AND NOTICE HOW IT SAYS "DISCOURAGES THE GROWTH OF IMPORTANT PROTECTIVE ORGANISMS SUCH AS LACTOBACILLUS".THIS EXPLAINS WHY THE INFECTION KEEPS COMING BACK NO MATTER WHAT WE DO.)

Since estrogen has a major role in maintaining the health and function of not just the vagina, but all tissues including the uterus, urinary bladder, and urethra, low levels of the hormone may cause these organs to weaken and shrink. When the bladder is affected, urinary incontinence, infection or painful urination may occur.

Women who are on contraceptive medications have a very low level of estrogen for the intent of contraceptives is to suppress normal ovarian function and prevent ovulation, therefore preventing a possible pregnancy.

A decrease in estrogen results in several vaginal changes. The vaginal lining becomes thinner and more fragile resulting in an increased risk of bacterial infection.

Small amounts of topical estrogen applied over a few weeks to the vaginal and vulvar tissues typically result in a dramatic response, with thickening, lubrication, and return of elasticity to the tissues

Because topical estrogen products contain unopposed estrogen, there is the possibility that they could cause endometrial proliferation, hyperplasia, or carcinoma

Decreased estrogen levels cause the vaginal pH to become more alkaline, typically with levels greater than 5.0. Microscopic examination of the vaginal secretions often reveals decreased lactobacilli, and can also be used to rule out other causes of vaginitis (e.g., bacterial vaginosis, candidiasis, and trichomoniasis).[1] If the diagnosis is still uncertain after the history, physical examination, and testing described, a smear from the upper third of the vaginal wall can be sent for cytologic examination. Typically, there will be decreased superficial cells and increased basal and parabasal cells with atrophic vaginitis.[3]

With normal use of vaginal estriol cream at the dose you been prescribed — which is standard — side effects are very rare. A few individuals are allergic to the cream base with which the pharmacist mixes the estriol. If that occurs, the base can be changed.

The vaginally-applied dosages of estriol effective for relief of vaginal dryness result in negligible systemic absorption. That means you don’t have to worry about breast or uterine cancer being stimulated by vaginal estriol. Estriol is a weak bioidentical estrogen that is produced in particularly high amounts during pregnancy. It has a very robust local effect on the estrogen receptors in vaginal tissue, thus reducing vaginal dryness and thickening vaginal mucosa in a matter of a few days or weeks.

At this time, estriol is available only through formulary pharmacies in this country, although it has a long history of routine use in Europe. The pharmacist prepares it as a cream for application with a syringe. You draw a half-gram of cream into the syringe and place it deep within the vagina. It’s a good idea to take your finger and spread a little around the opening of the vagina and the outer third of the urethra, as well, which is just under the vaginal surface at about 12 o’clock. Start with 0.5 grams, twice per day for one week. This will build up the vaginal tissue effectively. Then decrease to 0.5 grams, once per day. By the third week you will probably be able to decrease to a maintenance dose of 0.5 grams, twice per week. It’s best to apply the cream several hours before intercourse to allow the tissue adequate time for absorption. A small amount won’t hurt your partner, however.

No woman should have to suffer from urinary or vaginal symptoms that are the result of changing estrogen levels, whether this occurs due to excessive stress, following childbirth, during perimenopause or at any other life transition. Estriol is a great solution when the over-the-counter remedies aren’t enough. And there is essentially no risk. (See Supporting Reference 2.)
Estriol Helps Maintain Healthy Vaginal Tissue

Vaginal dryness and atrophy, urinary frequency, and repeat urinary tract infections are problems that many women experience during perimenopause, menopause, and other periods of estrogen decline. These symptoms occur because falling estrogen levels can lead to thinning of the vaginal and urethral tissue.

Estriol has a very robust local effect on the many estrogen receptors in these tissues and can be useful in reducing vaginal dryness and thickening skin and mucosa in a matter of a few days or weeks. Studies show estriol also lowers vaginal pH, promoting a healthy environment for the growth of protective flora, which may then help prevent urinary tract infections. Most often, a small amount of estriol in an individually compounded cream or suppository is prescribed for use two or three times a week

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neverending
post Oct 27 2006, 09:02 PM
Post #4686


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 483


THANKS PIANOGIRL! I will check it out.

LADIES MAYBE THIS MIGHT WORK FOR SOME OF YOU.

Bacterial vaginosis (BV) is a polymicrobial infection of the vagina and should not be considered an exclusively sexually transmitted disease. We describe the case of a 17-year-old female virgin adolescent with recurrent malodorous vaginal discharge for 6 months. Before referral to us she had been treated unsuccessfully with conservative treatment options. Our investigation revealed Gardnerella vaginalis as the responsible factor for the vaginal infection. Because metronidazole treatment had failed as monotherapy, a new method was applied. Repeated vaginal washings with 3% H2O2, 15% NaCl and 10% providone iodine were initiated. At the end of each washing, vaginal walls were thoroughly cleaned up with a small gauze. After 10 days of treatment the odor and the vaginal discharge had ceased and 12 months later no relapse had occurred. It seems to be reasonnable to use this kind of treatment in recurrent BV.
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pianogirl
post Oct 27 2006, 08:56 PM
Post #4687


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Posts: 104




Hi Neverending

I went to the health food store to buy kefir and I saw estrogen pills. If you have a nearby healthfood store you should check it out.

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neverending
post Oct 27 2006, 08:39 PM
Post #4688


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Here is something else I've found:

Researchers suggest that estrogen may resist infection by increasing the number of lactobacilli, the micro-organisms that fight infection by lowering the vaginal pH levels and preventing E. coli from adhering to vaginal cells. Taking oral estrogen does not seem to provide the same benefit as the topical forms, and in any case is proving to have some health risks.
WHY DON'T DOCTORS JUST GIVE ESTROGEN INSTEAD OF BIRTH CONTROL?I WOULD MUCH RATHER DO THIS INSTEAD BECAUSE I'VE BEEN MARRIED FOR SO LONG AND I WOULD LOVE CHILDREN.DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF ESTROGEN IS SAFE TO USE AND CAN I BUY IT ON THE INTERNET?
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klee
post Oct 27 2006, 10:44 AM
Post #4689


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I smoke but probably go through about a pack and a half a week...so not a ton. But, this is a good reason to quit.

I think the trick w/the hydrogen peroxide is to actually keep the stuff in there for a few minutes. The type of bacteria that likes to create havoc in our cooch does not like oxygen...which is what hydrogen peroxide provides and I used it straight from the bottle since that's 3%. So when I used the funnel, I used my feet on the sides of my tub to really prop up my hips almost straight up. Keeping the funnel in place will help the liquid stay inside. The first study had the women using h-p for a week.

I've heard other people say that this doesn't work and everyone is different. But, I feel like this might be more natural and apparently has shown to help balance some women's flora in clinical trails. And hydrogen peroxide has no side effects and this rests a little more easily on my mind - if it's working, which it is. But seriously, I'm kinda coming to terms with dealing with some sort of bv maintenance right after my period.
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Eralc Alegna
post Oct 27 2006, 10:15 AM
Post #4690


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Posts: 94


Chachaheels - what would we do without you? I'm so glad you're here! How can I find a good herbalist though? I have no idea where to look and how to guage credibility. I'm definitely refusing the pill now though, I knew that s@#% wasn't right.
Oh yea, used to be a smoker. I've quit like 5 different times but for good at lent last year. besides the occasional drunkin indulgence. Once I read that smoking could be a factor in BV they were gone!
And I tried the hydrogen peroxide undilluted everyday for like a month and nothing... but I guess everyone is different. I could only find a 10ml syringe though and just let it run out, i didn't hold it in.
oh and chacha, i've been using the boric for about 3 weeks 2x a day and my symptoms have improved a bit but it is by no means gone. I should quit using it then? for how long?

* sorry, naturopath. Maybe i really should push myself to this raw food diet. Would it give me a chance of restoring ballance in my hormones and whatever else modern medicine has destroyed for me?
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autumnbreeze
post Oct 27 2006, 08:09 AM
Post #4691


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I've never been a smoker.

klee: Good article. I recently tried the hydrogen peroxide douche..it worked temporarily. I read some other articles about probiotics and BV. It seems that L. acidophilus alone may not be enough. Also, the good bacteria may be killed by stomach acid when taken orally and if it does make it through, it has a hard time colonizing and reproducing. So I'm thinking maybe I should increase intake of the probiotics. I wish there was a high-potency lactobacilli injection (or something of the sort) we could get from the doctor.

Contemporary Issues in Women's Health: The Rationale for Probiotics in Female Urogenital Healthcare

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1140735



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latinrican
post Oct 27 2006, 08:02 AM
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Pianogirl.... I used the Boric Acid once a day every other day for 2 weeks. I was a little scared to use it every day. My period came on and then the smell came back. I got back on it but used one capsule about every 3 to 4 days. My goal was just to try to use the least amount of BA capsules as possible. Im now using it once a week and hopefully can just get off of it indefinitely. Im on my period now so Im curious to see if the smell will come back.

Neverending....same area , huh? Well we need to build a coffee shop and name it "BV" and name all of our coffees after each medication everyone has tried ....lol. ***sigh*** (trying to add a lil humor) but thanks for the website...I will definitely chk it out.

Pympmama1.... I do not smoke and never have.





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pianogirl
post Oct 27 2006, 06:15 AM
Post #4693


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I do not smoke so I do not think somoking is the culprit for me. sad.gif

\\


Klee do you add water to the hydrogen peroxide?

Also are you still using boric acid?

I started drinking kefir and taking a pill form of probiotics and am still on boric acid.

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pympmama1
post Oct 27 2006, 03:27 AM
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How many of you smoke... I keep seeing report about idividuals that smoke are more susceptiable to bv
I smoke... but even when I stopped smoking for a year ... it did not go away... I am curious ... how many on the board... have the same behavior.....which could be a contributing factor to our recurrences
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klee
post Oct 27 2006, 12:58 AM
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Okay- long post but check out this article here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

I've read a few articles from this site and it's been really interesting! Apparently this is basically what is wrong with all of us: "Our results showed that women with BV lack lactobacilli, especially hydrogen peroxide producing ones." Essentially healthy women have higher amounts of lactic acid and hydrogen peroxide producing lactobacilli. And smokers do an even worse job at generating this stuff. Apparently a really good strain of lactobacilli/lactic acid is found in molasses!

So I tried this out since I get the amine smell after my period - OFTEN. And I see that some doctors actually recommend some sort of wash after menses. Anyway, all is well right now. And hydrogen peroxide is cheap. I'm guessing a "vaginal irrigation" is a douche. I actually got in the shower and laid on my back propping my hips way up using my legs and used a little funnel and just held still for about 3 minutes. I chose 3 minutes after reading this here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...st_uids=8876361

It's really not that big of a pain in the ass considering other treatments and it's possible that some of us may need to do this monthly after our periods. What I'm hoping is that doing this and figuring out my probiotics will help me get my cooch in order and after a while won't have a monthly bv episode.
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neverending
post Oct 26 2006, 05:57 PM
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latinrican:I'm around the same area!;) Try clinical trials.gov or something like that and it should pull up everything in your area.
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chachaheels
post Oct 26 2006, 04:49 PM
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Boric acid should be used in 600g. suppositories, once or twice a day, for a maximum of 2 weeks. Then there should be a rest period--and you shouldn't have to use them again. They can minimize discomfort, but the ideal situation with boric acid suppositories is to use them under the supervision of a naturopath.

Again, using the boric acid for this limited time is a good start, but if you're still have the symptoms, find a naturopath who knows what he or she is doing to undertake your case. Conventional medical doctors don't know about alternatives such as the boric acid, botanical medicines, or nutritional supplements, so if you really want to know how to use these to your advantage, it pays to go to someone who is knowledgeable.

Pau D'arco is, in fact, a herbal drug and as such it should be used under the supervision of a trained professional who has studied the effects of that drug on the body and is trained in the use of herbal medicines. Therefore--see someone who is learned in herbal or botanical medicines for supervision while you use this drug, as you would any other drugs.

Herbal medicines of all kinds are never meant to be used indefinitely or without the supervision of an herbalist. MDs are not required to know about these drugs; neither are pharmacists or nurses, neither are clerks in health food stores. They're powerful medicines; they are not like conventional drugs that are supposed to be used by one and all forever. If you just want relief, use them cautiously until you find someone to work with who is trained; if you want to actually get better and stop suffering from this disease once and for all, you must work with a trained professional.


--------------------
May suitable doses of guaranteed sensual pleasure and slow, long-lasting enjoyment preserve us from the contagion of the multitude who mistake frenzy for efficiency.
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pianogirl
post Oct 26 2006, 03:51 PM
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Hi Ladies,

I was wondering if the users of boric acid would share their regimen? I ask because I was on it 3 weeks straight and stopped because my period came and the smell was funny again after about 3 - 4 days of my period. Anyway I am back on the BA 2x starting in the morning and night (I was just doing it in the evenings the first time around).

It kills the smell and discharge but my period seems to have made it come back. I have concluded that the good bacteria is necessary, however now I wonder should be used in combination with the BA. The question now is what is the strongest course to enable the healthy bacteria to gain some strength or rebuild itself? Should we use both the BA (killing the bad bacteria) and something for good bacteria together vaginally?
I also started taking acidophilous by orally as of today.

Any ideas please?

I miss the days when I smelled like nothing (maintenance free) sad.gif


Thanks
PG
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autumnbreeze
post Oct 26 2006, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE(latinrican @ Oct 26 2006, 10:29 AM) *

autumnbreeze,

Where do you get the pau d'arco and how many days have you used it already?




latinrican: I bought it at a health food store. You can get tea bags, capsules, or the bark. I got the bark because most of the tea bags and capsules have additives. I did 1 douche, then drank 1 cup for 7 days. As I said before, I didn't have any adverse side effects. Personally, I don't think it can be any more harmful than Boric Acid--which you cannot drink or ingest or get on your skin. I think it acts like a "natural antibiotic" so you would need to follow up with the probiotics. Good luck.
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chachaheels
post Oct 26 2006, 11:03 AM
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There are a variety of probiotic preparations specially made for direct insertion in the vagina.
Your health food store should have at least one or two brands designed to be used for just this purpose. One brand in particular that comes to mind is "New Roots". The bottle comes with an inserter and just the capsules--you use one a day until the bottle runs out.

Of course it helps if you also take probiotic supplements, or eat a number of lacto-fermented foods which feature the probiotics and their enzymes naturally. Most of us don't, our dairy products are dead if not worse...and many of us don't have any access to lacto-fermented foods like kvasses, home made sauerkraut, raw milk butters, creams, and cheeses, or yogurts. So the supplementation is your next best bet.

Try to find probiotics to take orally with more than 12 billion live organisms if you're in an active infection. If not, a daily dose of any standard commercial product you'll find in your health food store will keep you in good shape on an ongoing basis.

The Birth control pill's real damage to the body in terms of cause for this illness isn't just a result of the artificially lowered estrogen level it creates, but the overall imbalance this kind of tampering creates to all organs and glands in the body. Every single gland which produces or reacts to any particular hormone anywhere in the body is affected by this imposed state, and each of those will respond in a desperate attempt to try to "balance things out" by producing other hormones/not producing those hormones/becoming insensitive and unresponsive to any particular hormone so much that other glands have to produce much more again. "Balance" in hormones is extremely difficult to restore once artificial hormones are used in any way in the body; the pill's particularly bad because people use it indefinitely, many women use it for many, many years. Most people don't stay on other hormones that length of time (things like cortisone, corticosteroids, prednisone/prednosilone). That imbalance can be a major reason for susceptibility to BV.

Pau D'arco is a tree bark (a botanical medicine) you can use as a tea or in capsule form. It's an effective anti-fungal. This should really be used under the supervision of an herbalist, and for a short period of time where your reactions can be monitored and its use adjusted.


--------------------
May suitable doses of guaranteed sensual pleasure and slow, long-lasting enjoyment preserve us from the contagion of the multitude who mistake frenzy for efficiency.
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